Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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Part I
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132555

[quote name='dallow']You have pretty shitty taste in games though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it must be since I just played through and beat Bioshock and am now playing Super Mario Galaxy

I keep forgetting its PS3 that has all the awesome games that I am missing out on which is why its the #1 video game console. Oh wait...

[quote name='LinkinPrime']Well, you brought him up while replying to my post so I was just wondering if you were trying to imply something.

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I saw the Blu-Ray endcap at my local Target today, very impressive I must say, Sony must have forked out quite a bit of money for that. It was a flat panel HDTV with the $399 BR player and it showed clips of movies, some of which didn't look as good as I hoped (Finding Nemo) and some better than I expected (Pirates Of The Caribbean). The announcer talks about the exclusive formats that are releasing movies on Blu-Ray and pretty anything else to try to convince passersby to go Blu.

Toshiba needs to do something to counter-attact these types of marketing if they hope to gain more ground, fast & soon.[/QUOTE]

I saw the new endcap too with the dozen or so titles beneath it. The $499 (to correct you) BDP-300 was hooked up via Component cables as well. I'm assuming they didn't want to open up one of there $49.99 HDMI cables and instead used a cheap set of Component ones (and they were cheap off brand ones). My Target still has not sold a single one according to the Electronics "manager" and the display has been up for about a month now.

Wal-Mart has had similar displays for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, but so far not a single place I have seen has had a great HD DVD display set up.

[quote name='GizmoGC']I saw the new endcap too with the dozen or so titles beneath it. The $499 (to correct you) BDP-300 was hooked up via Component cables as well. I'm assuming they didn't want to open up one of there $49.99 HDMI cables and instead used a cheap set of Component ones (and they were cheap off brand ones). My Target still has not sold a single one according to the Electronics "manager" and the display has been up for about a month now.

Wal-Mart has had similar displays for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, but so far not a single place I have seen has had a great HD DVD display set up.[/QUOTE]

circuit city by me has a great HD DVD Set up and has been playing transformers everytime i'm in there since it came out. they got it setup right near the customer service where everyones standing in line and at CC you're always standing in line for 15 minutes it seems

only set up i've seen tho, the other circuit citys by me don't have the same thing

I didn't check the back to see how it was plugged in at the store I visited. Finding Nemo looked grainy in highspeed scenes while Pirates looked phenomenal, though there was no high speed scenes shown. Still this is somthing that Toshiba needs to fight.

I think one thing people don't think of is how hesitant people are to make the jump to HD. Not even because there are two formats but because they have so much "invested" into DVD.

My friend has a 72 inch 1080p screen and I basically had to drag him kicking and screaming to get a HD player. He knew it was an improvement but since he has 400 DVDs he really didn't see any reason to jump in.

He finally broke when I told him that not only does it play HD-DVDs but it would upconvert his DVDs. If Toshiba didn't have an A3 on sale for $200 with 7 free movies, he wouldn't have jumped in at all and just would have bought a upconverting DVD player (that's what he originally called me about)

Which is were I think that Toshiba really has the advantage. Most people are going to buy in only because it has a low price, studio support be damned.

is an upscaled 1080p dvd noticeably worse then a bd or hd dvd movie? or is he difference minimal to the naked eye?

Click to expand...

In nearly all cases, yes. If you have a really spectacular DVD (such as LOTR, Casino Royale or T5E Superbit) and put it through a really good upscaler (such as the Silicon Optix Reon), it actually looks better than the very worst HD DVDs and Blu-Rays. But once you get into even mediocre HiDef titles, there's a noticible difference in detail, sharpness, and color rendition that no upscaler can duplicate. The very best HDM make all upscaled SD look like VHS by comparison.

[quote name='Sporadic']I think one thing people don't think of is how hesitant people are to make the jump to HD. Not even because there are two formats but because they have so much "invested" into DVD.

My friend has a 72 inch 1080p screen and I basically had to drag him kicking and screaming to get a HD player. He knew it was an improvement but since he has 400 DVDs he really didn't see any reason to jump in.

He finally broke when I told him that not only does it play HD-DVDs but it would upconvert his DVDs. If Toshiba didn't have an A3 on sale for $200 with 7 free movies, he wouldn't have jumped in at all and just would have bought a upconverting DVD player (that's what he originally called me about)

Which is were I think that Toshiba really has the advantage. Most people are going to buy in only because it has a low price, studio support be damned.[/QUOTE]

Ha, same thing with my dad. He has a 73 inch Mitsubishi Diamond Series 1080p TV with $2,000 invested in a sound system...and was using an upconverting DVD player. I bought him a $99 A2 and literally had to force him to let me hook it up. He's happy now watching Planet Earth and Transformers.

Wow, these threads are annoying.

How do you guys talk on them? Lol. . .

[quote name='GizmoGC']Yeah, it must be since I just played through and beat Bioshock and am now playing Super Mario Galaxy

I keep forgetting its PS3 that has all the awesome games that I am missing out on which is why its the #1 video game console. Oh wait...[/quote]
But who doesn't like Super Mario Galaxy? that's not really a good barometer. And yes, you are missing out a bunch of awesome games. Resistance, Motorstorm, Warhawk, Ratchet and Clank, Super Stardust HD, Heavenly Sword, GT5: Prologue, Unreal Tourny 3 and Uncharted are all awesome games, plus Little Big Planet, Killzone 2 and MGS 4 all coming next year. With those variety of titles I can't see how you can honestly say that the PS3 has no games, unless you have a personal grudge against Sony which I can't help with.

and as I far as I know, Target doesn't carry the actual players, we just have the end-cap, probably why they haven't sold one.

And Manaknight got banned? Why? Gizmo does worse stuff than him and he's still here. Never seen him copy peoples post and take them to other sites and pretend they are his, or troll threads with crap in the PS3 forums like (Zomg 2 Reasons to own the PS3 not so it's not a paperweight!)

And Disney is a selling point because they own Buena Vista, Miramax and Dimension films, who have a lot of good movies that aren't kids ones. (Suck as Equilibrium, The Rock and Con-Air) They also own Pixar, and everyone loves Pixar. Plus Fox (if they keep their promise of 100 titles next year, which I doubt), MGM (if they get their crap together, since they do own the largest catalog of titles, Ben-Hur Please!) and Sony, who has some good catalog titles such as Ghostbusters. And then there's little talked about Lionsgate, who has some very solid releases like Crank, Terminator and 3:10 Yuma coming soon.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']But who doesn't like Super Mario Galaxy? that's not really a good barometer. And yes, you are missing out a bunch of awesome games. Resistance, Motorstorm, Warhawk, Ratchet and Clank, Super Stardust HD, Heavenly Sword, GT5: Prologue, Unreal Tourny 3 and Uncharted are all awesome games, plus Little Big Planet, Killzone 2 and MGS 4 all coming next year. With those variety of titles I can't see how you can honestly say that the PS3 has no games, unless you have a personal grudge against Sony which I can't help with.

and as I far as I know, Target doesn't carry the actual players, we just have the end-cap, probably why they haven't sold one.

And Manaknight got banned? Why? Gizmo does worse stuff than him and he's still here. Never seen him copy peoples post and take them to other sites and pretend they are his, or troll threads with crap in the PS3 forums like (Zomg 2 Reasons to own the PS3 not so it's not a paperweight!)

And Disney is a selling point because they own Buena Vista, Miramax and Dimension films, who have a lot of good movies that aren't kids ones. (Suck as Equilibrium, The Rock and Con-Air) They also own Pixar, and everyone loves Pixar. Plus Fox (if they keep their promise of 100 titles next year, which I doubt), MGM (if they get their crap together, since they do own the largest catalog of titles, Ben-Hur Please!) and Sony, who has some good catalog titles such as Ghostbusters. And then there's little talked about Lionsgate, who has some very solid releases like Crank, Terminator and 3:10 Yuma coming soon.[/quote]

QFT

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']But who doesn't like Super Mario Galaxy? that's not really a good barometer. And yes, you are missing out a bunch of awesome games. Resistance, Motorstorm, Warhawk, Ratchet and Clank, Super Stardust HD, Heavenly Sword, GT5: Prologue, Unreal Tourny 3 and Uncharted are all awesome games, plus Little Big Planet, Killzone 2 and MGS 4 all coming next year. With those variety of titles I can't see how you can honestly say that the PS3 has no games, unless you have a personal grudge against Sony which I can't help with.

and as I far as I know, Target doesn't carry the actual players, we just have the end-cap, probably why they haven't sold one.

And Manaknight got banned? Why? Gizmo does worse stuff than him and he's still here. Never seen him copy peoples post and take them to other sites and pretend they are his, or troll threads with crap in the PS3 forums like (Zomg 2 Reasons to own the PS3 not so it's not a paperweight!)

And Disney is a selling point because they own Buena Vista, Miramax and Dimension films, who have a lot of good movies that aren't kids ones. (Suck as Equilibrium, The Rock and Con-Air) They also own Pixar, and everyone loves Pixar. Plus Fox (if they keep their promise of 100 titles next year, which I doubt), MGM (if they get their crap together, since they do own the largest catalog of titles, Ben-Hur Please!) and Sony, who has some good catalog titles such as Ghostbusters. And then there's little talked about Lionsgate, who has some very solid releases like Crank, Terminator and 3:10 Yuma coming soon.[/QUOTE]

Again, no interest in any of those. Half the games you listed are not even out yet but are great games? Motorstorn sucked, Resistance was only "good" because the other PS3 launch titles sucked, Heavnly Sword is 5 hours long, not interested in multiplayer only Warhawk etc. No game for PS3 has made me go "wow" and I doubt there will be one. I really didn't think I would need to explain yet again why I have little interest in the PS3 as a gaming console. The 360 and Wii are just fine.

Target does NOT have players? You have got to be kidding me. The guy at my Target said they havn't sold one...but maybe its because they are not carried :lol: Whats the point then, to move their $25 movies when Frys has them on BOGO?

Why is The Mana Knight even being discussed, he has never posted in this thread before.

You are over estimating Disney. While they have some great movies in their library, not everyone is going to go out and buy these movies on Blu-ray so their kids can watch them in HD (at least the kids movies). DVDs are a better alternative due to the fact nearly every household has several DVD players, Portable DVD Players, Car DVD players etc. Thats why the Combo format for kid HD DVD titles makes so sense. Why Paramount did not release Shrek 3 in combo (Paramount has yet to EVER release a combo though) baffles me. If Disney on Blu-ray is so damn important they would have released a "classic" title already, like The Jungle Book several weeks back on DVD. Perfect time. The one studio that should be HD DVD is Disney. They are all about interactivity and have done an awesome job with DVDs, yet they don't release on HD DVD when the interactivity is here TODAY. Why they would want to wait for Blu-ray to eventually catch up 2 years later is beyond me. Oh well, at least they voted to approve the TL51 disc. Should be interesting.

As for the other studios you mentioned, nearly all of them have announced and delayed dozens of titles. Hell I think Fox/MGM have delayed/canceled more titles then they have released. Too many Blu studios unsure of the format or simply not ready to give away their titles for $12 every 2 weeks.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']

And Disney is a selling point because they own Buena Vista, Miramax and Dimension films, who have a lot of good movies that aren't kids ones. (Suck as Equilibrium, The Rock and Con-Air) [/QUOTE]

A couple of quick notes


Dimension Films is owned by the Weinsteins. Bob originally used it to release genre films without the risk of tarnishing the Miramax Films name. When they disbanded in 2005, the Weinsteins took Dimension with them.

Ever since the Weinsteins' left, Miramax has basically just assisted in releasing titles for the Weinsteins or Universal. Furthermore, several films produced under Miramax while the Weinsteins were in power fell back to the Weinstein Company.

The Weinsteins took the Dimension name with them, but the catalog remains the property of Disney. Scary Movie 4 is the first TWC-owned Dimension production.

Miramax hasn't done many films since the Weinsteins left, but they did do The Queen and The Lookout, both of which are out on Blu-Ray; and collaborated on Hollywoodland, out on HD DVD via Universal. They also did The Hoax, not currently available on HDM. The only thing (according to wikipedia) that they've partnered with TWC on since the split is Scary Movie 5 (due out next year), which Miramax owns the rights to, but has to split profits with TWC on.

I don't see how at this point anyone can say the PS3 doesn't have a good games. Uncharted alone is a 100% must own, Ratchet and Clank is good, Motorstorm is good, not to mention Oblivion which is one of my favorite games of all time and has quicker load times and less lag on the PS3.

Anyway, I've been enjoying the hell out of both my HD-A2, and PS3 for the past few weeks with all these software sales. I'm going to be broke with all these movies.

Speaking of which, HD DVD's releases for the remainder 2007, and Q1 2008 are looking embarrassingly thin. Speaking for myself I'll pick up Superbad, Lost Season 3, Pirates 3, The Simpson's Movie, Rush Hour 3, Shoot 'Em Up, War, Resident Evil Extinction, 3:10 to Yuma, Con Air, Mr. Woodcock, The Gameplan, and maybe Good Luck Chuck on Blu-ray. On HD DVD I'll get Old School, The Bourne Ultimatum, Stardust, The Heartbreak Kid, and maybe Anchorman. That's 13 Blu-ray, and 5 HD DVD.... not looking too good for HD DVD. I'm hoping at CES a more robust HD DVD line-up gets revealed including Weird Science which was announced, but than disappeard.

[quote name='Chris in Cali']Speaking of which, HD DVD's releases for the remainder 2007, and Q1 2008 are looking embarrassingly thin. Speaking for myself I'll pick up Superbad, Lost Season 3, Pirates 3, The Simpson's Movie, Rush Hour 3, Shoot 'Em Up, War, Resident Evil Extinction, 3:10 to Yuma, Con Air, Mr. Woodcock, The Gameplan, and maybe Good Luck Chuck on Blu-ray. On HD DVD I'll get Old School, The Bourne Ultimatum, Stardust, The Heartbreak Kid, and maybe Anchorman. That's 13 Blu-ray, and 5 HD DVD.... not lookign too good. I'm hoping at CES a more robust HD DVD line-up gets revealed.[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair, Rush Hour 3/Shoot 'Em Up/Mr. Woodcock are all coming to HD-DVD just in 2008 since they have to finish up their theatrical run internationally since HD-DVD is region free and New Line is afraid of people just importing them.

Also, the HD-DVD's camp has never been big on announcing titles really early.

- edit How dare you not have The Pianist on your list. That movie is truly amazing.

[quote name='GizmoGC']Again, no interest in any of those. Half the games you listed are not even out yet but are great games? Motorstorn sucked, Resistance was only "good" because the other PS3 launch titles sucked, Heavnly Sword is 5 hours long, not interested in multiplayer only Warhawk etc. No game for PS3 has made me go "wow" and I doubt there will be one. I really didn't think I would need to explain yet again why I have little interest in the PS3 as a gaming console. The 360 and Wii are just fine.

Target does NOT have players? You have got to be kidding me. The guy at my Target said they havn't sold one...but maybe its because they are not carried :lol: Whats the point then, to move their $25 movies when Frys has them on BOGO?

Why is The Mana Knight even being discussed, he has never posted in this thread before.

You are over estimating Disney. While they have some great movies in their library, not everyone is going to go out and buy these movies on Blu-ray so their kids can watch them in HD (at least the kids movies). DVDs are a better alternative due to the fact nearly every household has several DVD players, Portable DVD Players, Car DVD players etc. Thats why the Combo format for kid HD DVD titles makes so sense. Why Paramount did not release Shrek 3 in combo (Paramount has yet to EVER release a combo though) baffles me. If Disney on Blu-ray is so damn important they would have released a "classic" title already, like The Jungle Book several weeks back on DVD. Perfect time. The one studio that should be HD DVD is Disney. They are all about interactivity and have done an awesome job with DVDs, yet they don't release on HD DVD when the interactivity is here TODAY. Why they would want to wait for Blu-ray to eventually catch up 2 years later is beyond me. Oh well, at least they voted to approve the TL51 disc. Should be interesting.

As for the other studios you mentioned, nearly all of them have announced and delayed dozens of titles. Hell I think Fox/MGM have delayed/canceled more titles then they have released. Too many Blu studios unsure of the format or simply not ready to give away their titles for $12 every 2 weeks.[/quote]

you are underestimating Disney and they are always slow to release their "big" movies until they open the "vault" that is why it took them forever just to release their movies on DVD...i think the first classic they will release is Sleeping Beauty but that isnt till next year...i dont know why they wouldnt do it with the Jungle Book though

[quote name='Jedi1979']you are underestimating Disney and they are always slow to release their "big" movies until they open the "vault" that is why it took them forever just to release their movies on DVD...i think the first classic they will release is Sleeping Beauty but that isnt till next year...i dont know why they wouldnt do it with the Jungle Book though[/QUOTE]

I don't think he's underestimating them at all.

He's right when he says that they aren't going to have a massive effect since most parents buy Disney movies for their kids to watch in their room (which is usually on one of those horrible 15" TV/DVD combo things not a HDTV with a Blu-Ray player hooked to it) Not only that but most Disney movies look fairly good when thrown into a upconverter DVD player which is going to make the sell that much harder.

That doesn't mean I'm saying that they won't sell fairly well when they come out but if you imagine a parent picking a Blu-Ray player solely because Disney's with them, I don't see that happening much if at all.

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-edit And regarding Weinstein Company, it was some of the Miramax films that they got the rights back too not Dimension Films

In recent months, rights to films originally produced by Miramax (under the leadership of the Weinsteins), as well as some films either distributed by or had rights reverted to Miramax now lie with the Weinstein Company. For example, Genius Products/Weinstein Company Home Entertainment has reissued both released versions of Cinema Paradiso, originally distributed theatrically and on home video by Miramax.

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If I "win" the blu-ray player tomorrow at amazon, it looks like I'll be going dual format

[quote name='anomynous']If I "win" the blu-ray player tomorrow at amazon, it looks like I'll be going dual format[/quote]

lol the a35 is locked to win... ofcourse i dont think i will be offerred it

I guess Gizmo et al didn't read my post at all Disney does not just mean the kiddie cartoons, and 2nd of all, who doesn't like Pixar movies? Are you telling me you wouldn't want to watch Toy Story, the Incredibles, or Finding Nemo in HD? Or classics like Jungle Book, Lion King, or others? 3rd of all, I believe I already stated the problems of Fox/MGM in my post, but none-the-less they are still Blu-ray exclusive.

And the point of the Blu-ray end cap is to show off the format, just like the Xbox 360, and PS3 demo systems. I work at Target and haven't seen anything on Blu-ray players, in fact there isn't even a label for it last i checked. Most people think that there isn't a difference between hi-def and dvd, and that's what the end cap is for.

Link
And looking on-line, looks like it is in stores, however, every one in my area is out of stock, which would explain why no one has sold any. Also, typically stuff that we have only on display is considered "in the store" which could also be it.

And I am not going into the PS3 games anymore, you quite clearly hate everything and anything Sony and can only be the reason why you can say there are no games for the system. And for the record, GT:5 and UT3 both come out very soon, like less than two weeks, so yes they do count. And i even said Killzone 2, Little Big Planet and MGS 4 come out soon, and ask anyone who has played Little Big Planet at Press Events and they will tell you it's great, and MGS 4 is a Metal Gear solid game and will surely not dissapoint.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I guess Gizmo et al didn't read my post at all Disney does not just mean the kiddie cartoons[/QUOTE]

I read that and Gizmo pointed out he was talking about "just the kids movies".

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']and 2nd of all, who doesn't like Pixar movies? Are you telling me you wouldn't want to watch Toy Story, the Incredibles, or Finding Nemo in HD?[/QUOTE]

I like them but I don't believe they are a big selling point.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Or classics like Jungle Book, Lion King, or others? [/QUOTE]

When they finally start releasing them. If only Sony would have greased their hands like Microsoft did with the XBL Marketplace.

And again I don't think they are a big selling point. Most Disney movies sold are to parents buying them for their kids. Most will spend the sub-$20 on the DVD so they can watch them in the car, in their room, etc.

is an upscaled 1080p dvd noticeably worse then a bd or hd dvd movie? or is he difference minimal to the naked eye?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I guess Gizmo et al didn't read my post at all Disney does not just mean the kiddie cartoons, and 2nd of all, who doesn't like Pixar movies? Are you telling me you wouldn't want to watch Toy Story, the Incredibles, or Finding Nemo in HD? Or classics like Jungle Book, Lion King, or others? 3rd of all, I believe I already stated the problems of Fox/MGM in my post, but none-the-less they are still Blu-ray exclusive.

And the point of the Blu-ray end cap is to show off the format, just like the Xbox 360, and PS3 demo systems. I work at Target and haven't seen anything on Blu-ray players, in fact there isn't even a label for it last i checked. Most people think that there isn't a difference between hi-def and dvd, and that's what the end cap is for.

Link
And looking on-line, looks like it is in stores, however, every one in my area is out of stock, which would explain why no one has sold any. Also, typically stuff that we have only on display is considered "in the store" which could also be it.

And I am not going into the PS3 games anymore, you quite clearly hate everything and anything Sony and can only be the reason why you can say there are no games for the system. And for the record, GT:5 and UT3 both come out very soon, like less than two weeks, so yes they do count. And i even said Killzone 2, Little Big Planet and MGS 4 come out soon, and ask anyone who has played Little Big Planet at Press Events and they will tell you it's great, and MGS 4 is a Metal Gear solid game and will surely not dissapoint.[/quote]
Read my post, I clearly say kids movies. While I would love Toy Story, Nemo Lion King etc. on Blu-ray, Disney is known not to release them so soon and instead do 1 a year. They missed The Jungle Book and will be doing Sleeping Beauty next year. Again, NEXT YEAR. Besides those animation films there are not too many Disney studio films I would ever buy anyway. T

As for PS3 games, simply stop bringing it up. It seems thats the only thing you guys do is mention how great the PS3 system is, yet its dragging in sales and had to reduce its price and remove BC just to sell the damn systems. If PS3 was oh so great it would have never been in the position it is today, which is DEAD LAST. Behind Xbox 360 which launched a year earlier and behind the Wii which launched two days after the PS3.

While you may think all those games are awesome I am not impressed. Why buy lackluster games when I can get better ones on the 360 and Wii? I have Oblivion already, I got it for the Xbox 360 a year before. I could careless that it loads 10 seconds faster on the PS3 or that the graphics are touched up. I don't care about Kill Zone 2 and never liked any of the MGS games. Is that it? Is that the big titles coming out? Is the motto "just wait!" going to continue to apply every month? Its been a year, there should be system seller games available. As of today, Ratchet and Clank s the only I could even consider to be somewhat of a 'system seller'. Xbox 360 has had tons, as has the Wii (Zelda, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy). Feel free to continue saying that the PS3 is great and it has great games, because there are obvious millions out there that don't agree with this hence the high number of 360/Wii hardware and software sales.

I'm sorry I don't love the PS3. You need to get over it. Ive had it sitting here for almost a year and have not a single moment where I go "Can't wait to play...". It has not happened and it probably never will. Once a suitable Blu-ray player arrives I will sell the PS3 and be done with it.

[quote name='GizmoGC']Read my post, I clearly say kids movies. While I would love Toy Story, Nemo Lion King etc. on Blu-ray, Disney is known not to release them so soon and instead do 1 a year. They missed The Jungle Book and will be doing Sleeping Beauty next year. Again, NEXT YEAR. Besides those animation films there are not too many Disney studio films I would ever buy anyway. T

As for PS3 games, simply stop bringing it up. It seems thats the only thing you guys do is mention how great the PS3 system is, yet its dragging in sales and had to reduce its price and remove BC just to sell the damn systems. If PS3 was oh so great it would have never been in the position it is today, which is DEAD LAST. Behind Xbox 360 which launched a year earlier and behind the Wii which launched two days after the PS3.

While you may think all those games are awesome I am not impressed. Why buy lackluster games when I can get better ones on the 360 and Wii? I have Oblivion already, I got it for the Xbox 360 a year before. I could careless that it loads 10 seconds faster on the PS3 or that the graphics are touched up. I don't care about Kill Zone 2 and never liked any of the MGS games. Is that it? Is that the big titles coming out? Is the motto "just wait!" going to continue to apply every month? Its been a year, there should be system seller games available. As of today, Ratchet and Clank s the only I could even consider to be somewhat of a 'system seller'. Xbox 360 has had tons, as has the Wii (Zelda, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy). Feel free to continue saying that the PS3 is great and it has great games, because there are obvious millions out there that don't agree with this hence the high number of 360/Wii hardware and software sales.

I'm sorry I don't love the PS3. You need to get over it. Ive had it sitting here for almost a year and have not a single moment where I go "Can't wait to play...". It has not happened and it probably never will. Once a suitable Blu-ray player arrives I will sell the PS3 and be done with it.[/quote]
What "Tons" of system sellers does 360 have? Halo? Gears of War? What Action/Adventure game does the 360 have that is better than Heavenly Sword and Uncharted? what platformer does the 360 have that is better than Ratchet and Clank? Biggest system seller the Xbox has is Xbox live. And Zelda isn't a "system seller" as it was nothing more than a gamecube game but Metroid Prime and SMG I will give you. And who is saying "just wait?" I Just gave you 8 extremely solid titles that are already out or will be out within two weeks. Which disproves your theory there are "no games." Unless you don't like the Action/Adventure genre, which I could have told you before you bought the thing.

And fine, you don't like the PS3, BUT STOP CALLING IT A paperweight and trolling the PS3 forums. I don't like Halo or Gears of War, There are more games on the PS3 I like than the 360, which is the exact same situation as you, and you don't see my trolling the Xbox forums saying ridiculous stuff like that or getting in the way of people's fun. You bought it as a Blu-ray player, and that's what it is to you, and it does it better than any other player on the market. So shut-up and watch your movies as was intended when you bought the system.

And go ahead a sell it, you want to miss out on Insomniac's future games, Naughty Dog's future games, Little Big Planet, the next God of War, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Haze, Socom, and whatever else sony has up their sleeve, your loss. Better for everyone anyways. And when did I ever say the PS3 is "so great?" all I did was mention a good amount of solid titles on the system, but yes i think it's great. What other system can I find that plays blu-ray movies, upscales dvd's, plays games of the genre I like, can go on-line and soon support DIVX?

And how do sales have anything to do with how great something is? Price is the main factor with the masses, thats the only thing they care about, which is one of the reasons the Wii is kicking so much ass. They could care less about all the stuff I do, and that's why they reduced the price. And I guess the 360 is pretty sad to as it is losing the Wii and was being outsold by the PS2 most of the year since that's all you care about. The PS3 is selling poorly, but it's been picking up steam and well do just fine. HDTV's are great, but yet a lot of people in the world don't have them.

And go ahead and talk about "just the kids movies" as Disney releases The Rock, Air Force One, Crimson Tide, and Con-Air, which are distributed by Beuna Vista a wholly owned subsidy of Disney. And they released two Pixar movies this year, Cars and Rattaouile.

But I guess my argument doesn't matter as it doesn't include Wal-Mart sales.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']What "Tons" of system sellers does 360 have? Halo? Gears of War? Only system seller the Xbox has is Xbox live. And Zelda isn't a "system seller" as it was nothing more than a gamecube game but Metroid Prime and SMG I will give you. And who is saying "just wait?" I Just gave you 8 extremely solid titles that are already out or will be out within two weeks. Which disproves your theory there are "no games" as rock band and Guitar Hero just came out as well. Not to mention COD 4. [/QUOTE]

I really hope this is a joke.

"You're an idiot because you think PS3 has no good games, now let me disprove you by using the same argument but with PS3 360"

And I think you guys are forgetting that Gizmo also has a 360/Wii so of course he isn't going to buy multiplatform titles on PS3.

- edit System sellers, Halo/Gears Of War/Mass Effect/ BioShock/Orange Box/etc

[quote name='Sporadic']I don't think he's underestimating them at all.

He's right when he says that they aren't going to have a massive effect since most parents buy Disney movies for their kids to watch in their room (which is usually on one of those horrible 15" TV/DVD combo things not a HDTV with a Blu-Ray player hooked to it) Not only that but most Disney movies look fairly good when thrown into a upconverter DVD player which is going to make the sell that much harder.[/QUOTE]

I see two different conversations happening here.

Yes, parents aren't going to buy little Johnny or Suzy a Blu-Ray player for their room. Not likely, at any rate.

Cornerstone seems to suggest, OTOH, that a person who walks into a store determined to find out more about HDM, or to walk out of the store with a HDM player, is fairly bloody likely to find the exclusivity of Disney significant; particularly if they are a parent. Disney has a brand associated with children's media that no other studio has, frankly.

You're both right, as far as I'm concerned. But you're simply not having the same conversation.

[quote name='Sporadic']And I think you guys are forgetting that Gizmo also has a 360/Wii so of course he isn't going to buy multiplatform titles on PS3.[/QUOTE]

Ah, th' ol "multiplatform titles are a boon on the 360 and irrelevant on the PS3" talking point. If you think so, that's fine. More power to you. Keep in mind, however, that the moment you admit that, you're making another argument altogether from "there are no games on the system."

No, I realize that gizmo's just getting under folks' skin with these kinds of points, and as a result, running with it and enjoying it. That's his prerogative (shame, since he should be spending his time enjoying his myriad wunderbar 360/Wii games), and that's fine. But keep your argument consistent if you're making one. Either the PS3 has no games worth playing at all, or the PS3's games don't matter to you personally. Instead, I'm seeing three things being said at once, and they aren't particularly complementary.

1) PS3 has no games that interest me, exclusive or otherwise
2) PS3 has games, but they don't matter at all
3) PS3 has no games at all worth even considering, and they never will

[quote name='GizmoGC']If PS3 was oh so great it would have never been in the position it is today, which is DEAD LAST. Behind Xbox 360 which launched a year earlier and behind the Wii which launched two days after the PS3. [/QUOTE]

Says the person who stands behind HD-DVD (which had far more advantages out the gate than BD had: half the price, earlier release, larger movie library, etc)...

I'm not going to try and convince you to like or dislike the PS3. It's all subjective. But, if you want to use sales to justify which is better (which really means you lack the capacity to form your own opinion and you follow what "all the cool people are doing", and you probably loved movies like Phantom Menace, Titanic, Home Alone, etc). But hey, if you're using sales to determine what is the best for everyone, then this thread is no longer needed, and Blu-ray has just been declared the best.

[quote name='dpatel']Says the person who stands behind HD-DVD (which had far more advantages out the gate than BD had: half the price, earlier release, larger movie library, etc)...

I'm not going to try and convince you to like or dislike the PS3. It's all subjective. But, if you want to use sales to justify which is better (which really means you lack the capacity to form your own opinion and you follow what "all the cool people are doing", and you probably loved movies like Phantom Menace, Titanic, Home Alone, etc). But hey, if you're using sales to determine what is the best for everyone, then this thread is no longer needed, and Blu-ray has just been declared the best.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sporadic']I really hope this is a joke.

"You're an idiot because you think PS3 has no good games, now let me disprove you by using the same argument but with PS3 360"

And I think you guys are forgetting that Gizmo also has a 360/Wii so of course he isn't going to buy multiplatform titles on PS3.

- edit System sellers, Halo/Gears Of War/Mass Effect/ BioShock/Orange Box/etc[/quote]
Orange Box sort of, it's also a PC game, and I can run it fairly decently so no. Bioshock I will give you because it won't come out for another 6 months on the PS3 and you need a REALLY REALLY good computer to run it so that's fine, Mass Effect I completely forgot about, so your right, and Halo/Gears of War depends who you talk to. My friends and I don't give a crap about them but lots of people do so that's fine. The point I was trying to make is that he claims that the 360 has "tons" of system sellers, which is false because tons insinuates more than 10 in my mind, and also, to me Uncharted/Ratchet/Warhawk are bigger system sellers than anything the 360 has to offer so it's just a matter of taste, and personal perference. Am I going to then make outragoeus claims like the 360 is a paperweight? No. Am I going to blast it at every opportunity? No. It has a lot of great things to offer like better performance on MP games, Xbox live, Too Human, Ace Combat and Alan Wake. Both systems have plenty to offer, it's just a matter of tastes. I wasn't thinking clearly at the time so I worded it wrong.

[quote name='mykevermin'] I see two different conversations happening here.

Yes, parents aren't going to buy little Johnny or Suzy a Blu-Ray player for their room. Not likely, at any rate.

Cornerstone seems to suggest, OTOH, that a person who walks into a store determined to find out more about HDM, or to walk out of the store with a HDM player, is fairly bloody likely to find the exclusivity of Disney significant; particularly if they are a parent. Disney has a brand associated with children's media that no other studio has, frankly.

You're both right, as far as I'm concerned. But you're simply not having the same conversation.[/quote]
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying, coupled with the fact of all the companies Disney also owns and release titles, they are extremely significant to the Blu-ray side.

[quote name='dpatel'] Says the person who stands behind HD-DVD (which had far more advantages out the gate than BD had: half the price, earlier release, larger movie library, etc)...

I'm not going to try and convince you to like or dislike the PS3. It's all subjective. But, if you want to use sales to justify which is better (which really means you lack the capacity to form your own opinion and you follow what "all the cool people are doing", and you probably loved movies like Phantom Menace, Titanic, Home Alone, etc). But hey, if you're using sales to determine what is the best for everyone, then this thread is no longer needed, and Blu-ray has just been declared the best. Today 07:04 PM[/quote]
I was thinking the same exact thing. Perfectly worded.

[quote name='mykevermin']I see two different conversations happening here.

Yes, parents aren't going to buy little Johnny or Suzy a Blu-Ray player for their room. Not likely, at any rate.

Cornerstone seems to suggest, OTOH, that a person who walks into a store determined to find out more about HDM, or to walk out of the store with a HDM player, is fairly bloody likely to find the exclusivity of Disney significant; particularly if they are a parent. Disney has a brand associated with children's media that no other studio has, frankly.

You're both right, as far as I'm concerned. But you're simply not having the same conversation.[/QUOTE]

No, we're on the same page.

I disagree with what you are saying Cornerstone's stand is.

They have a brand associated with children's media and when a parent is picking up a HDM player, that just isn't important at this point in time.

There are a few good reasons to pick up a Blu-Ray player but Disney being exclusive isn't high up the list. The parents are at the store to buy a player for themselves since little Johnny/Suzy is going to be in their room watching DVDs on their TV/DVD combo. Not alot of people would be thrilled about having to pick up a copy for Johnny/Suzy's room/car and then one for the front room. Especially since Disney DVDs look pretty good being upconverted.

- edit And don't get me wrong Disney being exclusive is a good thing for you guys, just not in that way.

[quote name='mykevermin']Ah, th' ol "multiplatform titles are a boon on the 360 and irrelevant on the PS3" talking point. If you think so, that's fine. More power to you. Keep in mind, however, that the moment you admit that, you're making another argument altogether from "there are no games on the system."

No, I realize that gizmo's just getting under folks' skin with these kinds of points, and as a result, running with it and enjoying it. That's his prerogative (shame, since he should be spending his time enjoying his myriad wunderbar 360/Wii games), and that's fine. But keep your argument consistent if you're making one. Either the PS3 has no games worth playing at all, or the PS3's games don't matter to you personally. Instead, I'm seeing three things being said at once, and they aren't particularly complementary.

1) PS3 has no games that interest me, exclusive or otherwise
2) PS3 has games, but they don't matter at all
3) PS3 has no games at all worth even considering, and they never will[/QUOTE]

Don't put me in the middle of this. I don't give two shits about the PS3 or most of gaming anymore.

I was just pointing out that alot of people keep listing multiplatform games to Gizmo and he has other consoles. So when you go "but Oblivion/Rock Star/Call Of Duty 4 is awesome on PS3" he's just going to go "shit I have that on 360, why do I need a PS3 again?"

-----------

Also Myke I didn't see you comment on my little import spiel last thread, you wouldn't be ignoring it would you? #

[quote name='Sporadic']No, we're on the same page.

I disagree with what you are saying Cornerstone's stand is.

They have a brand associated with children's media and when a parent is picking up a HDM player, that just isn't important at this spot in time.

There are a few good reasons to pick up a Blu-Ray player but Disney being exclusive isn't high up the list. The parents are at the store to buy a player for themselves since little Johnny/Suzy is going to be in their room watching DVDs on their TV/DVD combo. Not alot of people would be thrilled about having to pick up a copy for Johnny/Suzy's room/car and then one for the front room. Especially since Disney DVDs look pretty good being upconverted.

- edit And don't get me wrong Disney being exclusive is a good thing for you guys, just not in that way.[/quote]

How 'bout them POTC sales? Or Ratatouille? Now, of course, it's not a blockbuster in HDM sales like Shrek 3 is turning out to be (tee hee), but it's somewhat substantial. Right?

Don't put me in the middle of this. I don't give two shits about the PS3 or most of gaming anymore.

Click to expand...

Then don't comment on it. I didn't list a single game, exclusive or otherwise. I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of such a viewpoint. It's like me saying I couldn't find a single iota of a redeeming quality of any Republican candidate ever, because I hate them all so much. It is true that I hate them all substantially (or their platform at least), but to claim that, in no uncertain terms, there has never been nor will there ever be a Republican plan I agree with in the slightest? That's absurd, and the kind of thing someone says when they surely want to have to publicly correct themselves at some point in their lives.

The folly is in trying to get gizmo to admit that he'd like any PS3 game. I'm not doing that. The real goal, of course, is to show him a game without allusion to its platform. Or, rather, to continually point out the folly and idiocy in such an absolutist claim.

Let me put it this way: it's akin to me saying there are no good HD DVD movies at all, ever ever ever. It's a different argument from what I'd really say, which is either (1) "there aren't enough HD DVD exclusive titles to inspire me to switch/go neutral, but if you like it, then fine" or (2) "I've got a blu-ray player; whether circumstantial or planned, it's what I have, and what I'm going to use. I'm not interested in prolonging the format war, so I'm staying exclusive."

Two of those arguments are reasonable, IMO. The third is absurd. I'll let you decide which is which.

Also Myke I didn't see you comment on my little import spiel last thread, you wouldn't be ignoring it would you? #

Click to expand...

Nah, didn't see it. What's the final score as of today (no need to list, but what is your out of pocket cost after taking away the rough price of a domestic BR film)?

[quote name='mykevermin']How 'bout them POTC sales? Or Ratatouille? Now, of course, it's not a blockbuster in HDM sales like Shrek 3 is turning out to be (tee hee), but it's somewhat substantial. Right?[/QUOTE]

I haven't been following disc sales all that much but I imagine they are pretty good, but not for the reason why Cornerstone/you believe.

PoTC is a flick meant for teens/adults while the Pixar (computer animated) movies are just about the definition of a demo disc.

The real question is; How many of the people who bought a copy of any of those movies, bought it for their kids? If I had to guess, I would say not many.

[quote name='mykevermin']Then don't comment on it.
[/QUOTE]

Ok

[quote name='mykevermin']Nah, didn't see it. What's the final score as of today (no need to list, but what is your out of pocket cost after taking away the rough price of a domestic BR film)?[/QUOTE]


$109.25 extra on imports (using $19.95 as a price point) so far with 15 purchased.

No more game talk.

Back to the formats.

[quote name='Sporadic']I haven't been following disc sales all that much but I imagine they are pretty good, but not for the reason why Cornerstone/you believe.

PoTC is a flick meant for teens/adults while the Pixar (computer animated) movies are just about the definition of a demo disc.

The real question is; How many of the people who bought a copy of any of those movies, bought it for their kids? If I had to guess, I would say not many.[/quote]

I don't recall parsing "Disney's exclusivity is important to children/parents/teens/lepers." I recall the argument being "Disney's exclusivity is important and significant." Please don't change the argument on me again.

$109.25 extra on imports (using $19.95 as a price point) so far with 15 purchased.

Click to expand...

Not bad, admittedly. And rather moot, I suppose, if few, if any, of what you're buying is on BR anywhere.

[quote name='Sporadic']I haven't been following disc sales all that much but I imagine they are pretty good, but not for the reason why Cornerstone/you believe.

PoTC is a flick meant for teens/adults while the Pixar (computer animated) movies are just about the definition of a demo disc.

The real question is; How many of the people who bought a copy of any of those movies, bought it for their kids? If I had to guess, I would say not many.



Ok




$109.25 extra on imports (using $19.95 as a price point) so far with 15 purchased.[/quote]
My point is not all disney movies are meant for kids they are meant for everyone, and there are a lot of people who like them, whether it be kids, adults or teens.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My point is not all disney movies are meant for kids they are meant for everyone, and there are a lot of people who like them, whether it be kids, adults or teens.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to enjoy watching Bad Santa this week, which came from said "insignificant" studio.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']What "Tons" of system sellers does 360 have? Halo? Gears of War? What Action/Adventure game does the 360 have that is better than Heavenly Sword and Uncharted? what platformer does the 360 have that is better than Ratchet and Clank? Biggest system seller the Xbox has is Xbox live. And Zelda isn't a "system seller" as it was nothing more than a gamecube game but Metroid Prime and SMG I will give you. And who is saying "just wait?" I Just gave you 8 extremely solid titles that are already out or will be out within two weeks. Which disproves your theory there are "no games." Unless you don't like the Action/Adventure genre, which I could have told you before you bought the thing.

And fine, you don't like the PS3, BUT STOP CALLING IT A paperweight and trolling the PS3 forums. I don't like Halo or Gears of War, There are more games on the PS3 I like than the 360, which is the exact same situation as you, and you don't see my trolling the Xbox forums saying ridiculous stuff like that or getting in the way of people's fun. You bought it as a Blu-ray player, and that's what it is to you, and it does it better than any other player on the market. So shut-up and watch your movies as was intended when you bought the system.

And go ahead a sell it, you want to miss out on Insomniac's future games, Naughty Dog's future games, Little Big Planet, the next God of War, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Haze, Socom, and whatever else sony has up their sleeve, your loss. Better for everyone anyways. And when did I ever say the PS3 is "so great?" all I did was mention a good amount of solid titles on the system, but yes i think it's great. What other system can I find that plays blu-ray movies, upscales dvd's, plays games of the genre I like, can go on-line and soon support DIVX?

And how do sales have anything to do with how great something is? Price is the main factor with the masses, thats the only thing they care about, which is one of the reasons the Wii is kicking so much ass. They could care less about all the stuff I do, and that's why they reduced the price. And I guess the 360 is pretty sad to as it is losing the Wii and was being outsold by the PS2 most of the year since that's all you care about. The PS3 is selling poorly, but it's been picking up steam and well do just fine. HDTV's are great, but yet a lot of people in the world don't have them.

And go ahead and talk about "just the kids movies" as Disney releases The Rock, Air Force One, Crimson Tide, and Con-Air, which are distributed by Beuna Vista a wholly owned subsidy of Disney. And they released two Pixar movies this year, Cars and Rattaouile.

But I guess my argument doesn't matter as it doesn't include Wal-Mart sales.[/QUOTE]

Again, if you love the PS3...thats great. I don't. Nothing for me to play. Why would I ever buy a PS3 games thats already available on Xbox 360? The PS3 ports of said games suck. I will say it again, it has sold so bad that a "gimmicky" Nintendo system has outsold it 4/:1 every month since launch. Thats how bad its doing. To me, and many others, its a paper weight. I rarely go into the PS3 forums (feel free to check my profile) anymore since all that goes on in there is "Just you wait!!!!! PS3 is gonna have tons of games next year and be #1 again! Just you wait!!!!". Yawn. So, AGAIN, I do not like the PS3. The games suck. I have no interest in it. Clear?

Did you not even read my last two replies? I mentioned "kid movies" not other movies Disney owns. For some reason you guys get a major stiffy for The Rock, Air Force One, Crimson Tide and Con Air. Were any of these even gigantic blockbusters? These are 10+ year old catalog titles that will sell 4-5k copies its release week if lucky and appear as BOGO 2-3 weeks later. Its amazing how many times you keep bringing these titles up like its the savior or the format. I'm really curious to see how well Close Encounters sold, you know, the one where Steven Spielberg made a huge Blu-ray deal about? My guess? 6-7k :lol:

[quote name='mykevermin']I'm going to enjoy watching Bad Santa this week, which came from said "insignificant" studio.[/QUOTE]

Me too! Hopefully this will be BOGO this week at Fry's. If not, I'll just wait until Bourne Ult. comes out as usual.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My point is not all disney movies are meant for kids they are meant for everyone, and there are a lot of people who like them, whether it be kids, adults or teens.[/QUOTE]

Really? So if you walked around a College randomly and asked "Hey, do you like Disney movies" to a bunch of guys, what do you think the response will be. Most average folk who know nothing about studios like we do consider Disney = Kiddie. They have no idea they release other types of movies nor that they own(ed) Miramax and Dimension.

[quote name='mykevermin']I don't recall parsing "Disney's exclusivity is important to children/parents/teens/lepers." I recall the argument being "Disney's exclusivity is important and significant." Please don't change the argument on me again.[/QUOTE]

Change the argument?

[quote name='GizmoGC']While they have some great movies in their library, not everyone is going to go out and buy these movies on Blu-ray so their kids can watch them in HD (at least the kids movies). [/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sporadic']He's right when he says that they aren't going to have a massive effect since most parents buy Disney movies for their kids to watch in their room (which is usually on one of those horrible 15" TV/DVD combo things not a HDTV with a Blu-Ray player hooked to it) Not only that but most Disney movies look fairly good when thrown into a upconverter DVD player which is going to make the sell that much harder.

That doesn't mean I'm saying that they won't sell fairly well when they come out but if you imagine a parent picking a Blu-Ray player solely because Disney's with them, I don't see that happening much if at all.
[/QUOTE]

[quote name='mykevermin']
Cornerstone seems to suggest, OTOH, that a person who walks into a store determined to find out more about HDM, or to walk out of the store with a HDM player, is fairly bloody likely to find the exclusivity of Disney significant; particularly if they are a parent. Disney has a brand associated with children's media that no other studio has, frankly.[/QUOTE]

We have been talking about parents and kid (most well known) division of Disney the whole time.

And I've been saying that Disney being exclusive is good for you guys but that in the sense of parents buying it so their kids can watch Pixar/Disney films in HD, not so much.

While getting ready for class this morning I saw two Blu ray commercials during the Today Show. Both of them mentioned walmart having low prices on Blu ray movies. I've said it from the start, but marketing is what is going to win the format war and so far Blu ray is winning in that department.

Most average joes around the office here (huge building, 5000 people) talk about Blu Ray.

I think I've heard them mention HD DVD once.

I hope to pick up Rescue Dawn and Paprika soon.

Week: 66/34
YTD: 65/35
SI: 61/39

No title lists this week. We got the follwoing Year-to-Date lists instead:

[quote name='geko29']Week: 66/34
YTD: 65/35
SI: 61/39

No title lists this week. We got the follwoing Year-to-Date lists instead:

[/quote]
Hmm, I guess Spider-man 3 didn't sell the 200,000 that we thought or the BOGO really helped Casino Royale, Ghost Rider sales. Either way, only one of the top 10 selling movies by title isn't on Blu-ray, and it still appears Universal movies are selling like crap. Which is good indicator IMO because that increases the likely hood they will go neutral.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']it still appears Universal movies are selling like crap. Which is good indicator IMO because that increases the likely hood they will go neutral.[/QUOTE]

lol

Let's be serious for a moment, Universal has about the same chance of going neutral as Sony/MGM (aka never unless the format completely falls apart)

[quote name='Sporadic']lol

Let's be serious for a moment, Universal has about the same chance of going neutral as Sony/MGM (aka never unless the format completely falls apart)[/quote]

Why is that? Do they gain profits off of any HD-DVD sales like Sony does with Blu-ray?

Wow, Spider-Man didn't even dent the top 10 YTD. Looks like Transformers was a definate success though...:bow:

[quote name='LinkinPrime']Wow, Spider-Man didn't even dent the top 10 YTD. Looks like Transformers was a definate success though...:bow:[/quote]Trilogy cut into the sales. And with such low volume of movie sales overall, it makes a big difference.