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Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*


#1141 ryanbph   Man Down CAGiversary!   7233 Posts   Joined 16.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:39 PM

Now we can finally see WB utilize the potential of the Blu-ray discs


why wouldn't they have fully used the potential of blu ray before?

#1142 dallow   By Kaz! CAGiversary!   30360 Posts   Joined 14.9 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:40 PM

lol this chicken little stuff is funny

I still stand completely firm about what I said a few months ago.



http://www.cheapassg...ner#post3560628

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Until Universal bows out, there will be no white flag or anything. I think people forget just how many movies/blockbusters Paramount/Dreamworks has and they are locked in for at least 18 months.

Studio support means nothing if people don't buy the movies. See other formats that have died.

Expect to see Toshiba cut back on standalone production.

#1143 LinkinPrime   :,( CAGiversary!   44276 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

LinkinPrime

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:40 PM

IIRC I thought it was because Lucas said he didn't want it out until the war was decided?


Knowing how the fans reacted at the Special Editions of the films, I wouldn't be surprised if they boycott a highdef release because it doesn't look vintage enough or there's not enough grain :lol:

#1144 rsigley   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1218 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:41 PM

20th century fox has distribution rights but needs the ok from Lucasfilm/Lucas and if I remember correctly they wanted to make sure that blue ray had the proper encryption/protection before they released it in that medium. Bullshit I say.

I am very surprised they did give it to us last year for the 30th anniversary. That would have tipped this war into blue rays favor so big that they would have won by a land slide.


i think the way its set up tho is Lucas pays for everything. Marketing, production costs, costs to get it into theaters, home video duplication costs, etc. and Fox gets 10% of the sales. So he's just using and paying Fox's staff to do the work and giving them a little kickback.

I think if he wanted to release it on HD DVD he could, but Lucas will probably wait until blu ray is more accepted to release it. Then he'll re release it 5 more times in the following 5 years.

I believe the New Line/Warner deal is similar. New Line pays to make the movies and all the other costs, then pays Warner a fee to distribute it for them. Weinstein went in this direction as well (MGM distributes their movies in theaters now, while they retain home video rights under their Genius entertainment or whatever its claled) because it's just too expensive to do it if you're a small company.

#1145 ITDEFX   My foot itches..must be athlete's foot CAGiversary!   17267 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:41 PM

They have a contract and can't leave until it's up (which is some time in 12 months)



Well that's really nothing to them then. They can just be slow in releasing current movies in HD-DVD format and stop production of previous titles to HD-DVD format. So basically if more "trek" was coming to an HD format, it won't happen this year and it won't happen on HD-DVD. :( They *might* just release the other TOS remastered seasons on HD-DVD (I know season 2 is coming soon) but TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT we probably won't see it until late 2009, early 2010...and that's just a transfer over to Blue ray. If they go ahead with a full remaster of the video/audio and give it a visual effects overhaul (new cgi!), that may not even come until later than that :(

#1146 JokerCard   Go,go Gadget Cheapskates! CAGiversary!   1755 Posts   Joined 14.2 Years Ago  

JokerCard

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:41 PM

why wouldn't they have fully used the potential of blu ray before?


The specs for the blu-rays used the same specs as hd-dvds. Not that they were any bad, but at least now they have extra room to fit more things.

#1147 geko29   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   891 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:42 PM

Very good news. Fuck MS for trying to ruin physical media formats.

As opposed to Sony, who would NEVER launch an HD video download service. Oh shit, they just did....

#1148 H.Cornerstone   LaserCannonDethSentence CAGiversary!   2154 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

H.Cornerstone

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:43 PM

As opposed to Sony, who would NEVER launch an HD video download service. Oh shit, they just did....



ROFL, when will people understand that the only reason MS supported HD-DVD was to combat the PS3 and Sony who is their main competitor in the gaming market?

I think what people are talking about with using the full compabilities of BD is Lossless audio and AVC codec instead of VC-1.

#1149 rsigley   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1218 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:44 PM

I was reading on AVS that Paramount might have an out clause in their contract with HD DVD if they're the only major studio left. Could be fake, but it would make sense, more for Toshiba than Paramount.

#1150 geko29   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   891 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:44 PM

Maybe this means we will finally get Star Wars on Blu-ray. :drool:

Nah, we'll have to wait 6 more years....Just like DVD. :cry:

#1151 moviewizguy   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   352 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

moviewizguy

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:46 PM

Ok. I'm just really mad right now. Just because Blue Ray customers paid more for their players mean that everyone is teaming on their side? This is what I really wanted: Why won't both players have all the movies? OR why won't there just be ONE type of hd-dvd player?! Why TWO? If you're buying one of them, you'll only get 1/2 a chance to get the "winning" one. If you buy both...then it doesn't matter. The fact is that since HD was cheaper, I'm sure a lot of people bought that. Sadly, it looks like all the people who've bought HD will then have to buy Blue Ray. Why would people do this? I've now just wasted $180 on an HD player and now I'll have to spend $300 more for a Blue ray?! If only the world would be more convenient or intelleigent.

#1152 dpatel   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3749 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:46 PM

Until Universal bows out, there will be no white flag or anything. I think people forget just how many movies/blockbusters Paramount/Dreamworks has and they are locked in for at least 18 months.


Well, HD-DVD wasn't exactly doing too hot WITH warner, so you can see why everyone feels the way they feel with HD-DVD losing them. Sure they won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Any format doesn't just die overnight, and HD-DVD has created quite a large fanbase, but I can't see them gaining any momentum anytime in the future.

#1153 H.Cornerstone   LaserCannonDethSentence CAGiversary!   2154 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

H.Cornerstone

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:46 PM

Nah, we'll have to wait 6 more years....Just like DVD. :cry:


Stupid George Lucas. Stars Wars VI was on HBO HD was on the other day and it looked AWESOME. And that was a crappy cable signal.

#1154 ITDEFX   My foot itches..must be athlete's foot CAGiversary!   17267 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:46 PM

Knowing how the fans reacted at the Special Editions of the films, I wouldn't be surprised if they boycott a highdef release because it doesn't look vintage enough or there's not enough grain :lol:



There is only so much you can do with a 30+ year old print before it looks too .... fake?

#1155 BWOzar   Give Vita a Chance! CAGiversary!   394 Posts   Joined 12.9 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:48 PM

This holiday season I finally chose a side, after bitterly having sat out the early goings of the format war, and went with Blu-Ray (via the PS3). I just figured the massive sales advantage on the Blu side (especially in movies released on both) would win out eventually and it looks like that may well end up being the case. This latest Warner blow to HD-DVD seems like it may be the death bell for HD-DVD (though in fairness I hate Warner as a studio, they meddle in film production more than any other studio). Thankfully, Children of Men, Transformers and the Bournes will soon enough be on Blu-Ray it seems...

#1156 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:50 PM

There is only so much you can do with a 30+ year old print before it looks too .... fake?


Eh, some of the better BD's I've seen included Blade Runnder, The Searchers, and Rio Bravo - all at least 25 years old, the latter two more than 40. I think what Linkin was upset about were those people who got bent out of shape because the last revision of SW edited out the vasoline smudges that hid the wheels of Luke's flying station wagon, as well as the "halos" around Tie Fighters. The SW fans were so nuts that they *demanded* their imperfections.

#1157 geko29   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   891 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:53 PM

ROFL, when will people understand that the only reason MS supported HD-DVD was to combat the PS3 and Sony who is their main competitor in the gaming market?

I respectfully disagree. Like everybody else, MS is in it for the money. They want IP in the next format. They were all set to support both formats until Sony told them to go Fuck themselves, that they wouldn't be supporting HDi on Blu-Ray, and would be actively discouraging the use of VC-1. After that, the only financially responsible decision was to support the format that they could earn licensing dollars from.

I think what people are talking about with using the full compabilities of BD is Lossless audio and AVC codec instead of VC-1.

I'm not sure what this is in reference to, but at least for the video codec side of things, VC-1 and AVC at comparable bitrates are incredibly similar. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages, but there's no clear overall winner. I don't expect Warner to abrubtly shift to using primarily AVC, because they're already very comfortable with VC-1, and know how to get good results with it.

I do agree with you on the audio side. Warner has been very spotty with their lossless support, sometimes offering it on one format but not the other (more often HD DVD, but not always), usually offering it on neither. While I don't expect an overnight turnaround, hopefully their percentage will gradually increase.

#1158 Sporadic   done with this site CAGiversary!   9499 Posts   Joined 16.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 10:57 PM

Studio support means nothing if people don't buy the movies. See other formats that have died.

Expect to see Toshiba cut back on standalone production.


I doubt this is going to cause everybody to stop buying movies. I imagine after the hysteria dies down (ala Paramount going HD-DVD exclusive, remember how people reacted?) things will start going back to "normal" (or as normal as we can be without Warner) as long as Paramount/Universal continue to bring the movies.

Remember HD-DVD doesn't have to win, only thing they have to do is hang on/make the public they won't be bowing out and wait for affordable combo players to wash this all away.

I don't imagine Toshiba cutting back on standalone production, if anything, this should be the time to try to ramp up production and just take the hit. They have alot of money (and future profits) riding on HD-DVD hanging around.

#1159 LinkinPrime   :,( CAGiversary!   44276 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

LinkinPrime

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:01 PM

Eh, some of the better BD's I've seen included Blade Runnder, The Searchers, and Rio Bravo - all at least 25 years old, the latter two more than 40. I think what Linkin was upset about were those people who got bent out of shape because the last revision of SW edited out the vasoline smudges that hid the wheels of Luke's flying station wagon, as well as the "halos" around Tie Fighters. The SW fans were so nuts that they *demanded* their imperfections.


Just for the record, I wasn't upset...just pointing it out...

...carry on.

#1160 dallow   By Kaz! CAGiversary!   30360 Posts   Joined 14.9 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:03 PM

I'm willing to bet that most people's collections had WB movies as a majority.
With this, people are jumping ship to BD.

I guess the ratios will tell the tale if slowly until May.

#1161 dpatel   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3749 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:04 PM

Remember HD-DVD doesn't have to win, only thing they have to do is hang on/make the public they won't be bowing out and wait for affordable combo players to wash this all away.


I felt this way too, but it seems the studios dislike the idea of a two format gen as much as many consumers do. At this point, I see no advantage of having this war continue into a two format generation, and I'm glad that it looks like this won't be the case.

#1162 TimPV3   I don't play games, I play GameStop CAGiversary!   3035 Posts   Joined 15.4 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:07 PM

Just read the news. I won't make you HD-DVD supporters feel any worse than you already do.

#1163 rsigley   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1218 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:08 PM

I felt this way too, but it seems the studios dislike the idea of a two format gen as much as many consumers do. At this point, I see no advantage of having this war continue into a two format generation, and I'm glad that it looks like this won't be the case.


I mentioned this in the HD DVD thread, but I feel stores do too.

Warner support will end in May, but when will Best Buy/Circuit City's support end? I'm guessing much earlier. Both of them don't stack recently released catalog titles in HD and I'm guessing soon they'll stop carrying new releases as well, then the HD racks will just be replaced with blu ray.

Both stores might end up dumping the format in the next couple of months due to the news, and then HD DVD will really die when the only place to buy it will be online.

#1164 BillyBob29   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   950 Posts   Joined 16.5 Years Ago  

BillyBob29

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:10 PM

This is great news for fans of HD discs in general because we need to one unified format ASAP, if we want these disc formats to be anything more than a new laserdisc, and this is one big step toward a blu-ray win.

As for Star Wars on blu-ray. It won't happen for a few years for the simple reason that Lucas is currently prepping that Ultimate DVD box set of all 6 movies and thousands of hours of useless behind the scenes crap no one cares about. He will release this set on DVD, get all the loyal Star Wars fans to buy it, then re-release it on blu-ray 12-18 months later.....and they will all buy it again.

#1165 dallow   By Kaz! CAGiversary!   30360 Posts   Joined 14.9 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:10 PM

The news has really brought all sorts of newcomers into this thread!

#1166 dpatel   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3749 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:11 PM

I mentioned this in the HD DVD thread, but I feel stores do too.

Warner support will end in May, but when will Best Buy/Circuit City's support end? I'm guessing much earlier. Both of them don't stack recently released catalog titles in HD and I'm guessing soon they'll stop carrying new releases as well, then the HD racks will just be replaced with blu ray.

Both stores might end up dumping the format in the next couple of months due to the news, and then HD DVD will really die when the only place to buy it will be online.


That's possible. I think it'll take longer than some of us are making it sound like, but I agree with what you're saying. The format already has a smaller fanbase, that probably won't be gaining much ground on BD now, so retailers have little motivation to keep it in stock. I imagine we'll see a lot of sales this next year.

#1167 ITDEFX   My foot itches..must be athlete's foot CAGiversary!   17267 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:11 PM

Eh, some of the better BD's I've seen included Blade Runnder, The Searchers, and Rio Bravo - all at least 25 years old, the latter two more than 40. I think what Linkin was upset about were those people who got bent out of shape because the last revision of SW edited out the vasoline smudges that hid the wheels of Luke's flying station wagon, as well as the "halos" around Tie Fighters. The SW fans were so nuts that they *demanded* their imperfections.


:rofl:

Well the only thing I want out of the original trilogy is a clean audio track and the removal of the cut out mattes on the tie fighters/xwings in the final battle of the first movie. That's a fairly easy fix if it's done via Computer Generated models or frame clean up. The audio from the first movie sounds muffled. The original audio tracks I can understand being a pain to restore/enhance. It's nothing for me to go into an uproar over since they did a pretty good job cleaning up the film for even the 1997 SE VHS release. But if they are planning on charging 100 bucks for a direct from original negative (no real clean up, no cgi)to blue ray and it's the ONLY copy of star wars to get on an HD format because the *fans* want that, then yea I would get pissed.

However I am sure the prequel trilogy will look amazing on Blue ray as more than two-thirds of it was shot in HD. I know the last 2 were shot in HD, and some of the first one was in HD.

#1168 LinkinPrime   :,( CAGiversary!   44276 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

LinkinPrime

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:13 PM

This is great news for fans of HD discs in general because we need to one unified format ASAP, if we want these disc formats to be anything more than a new laserdisc, and this is one big step toward a blu-ray win.


Not really, having one format monopoly will means no more major sales since there won't be a need for them without competition. In the long run it makes sense to have 1 format though but its going to be a while before HDM hit the prices that DVD's sell for.

#1169 dpatel   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3749 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:16 PM

Not really, having one format monopoly will means no more major sales since there won't be a need for them without competition. In the long run it makes sense to have 1 format though but its going to be a while before HDM hit the prices that DVD's sell for.


The two formats have competed long enough, in my opinion, to bring prices down to a reasonable level. Movies are still pricey, but considering the formats debuted less than 2 years ago, that is to be expected. BD players are down to $300-$400, and HD-DVD players are down to $100-$200, which is insanely good, considering we were at $1000/$500 a little over a year ago.

Plus, the winning format will still need to compete with DVD, so they still have reason to price themselves competitively.

#1170 doctorfaustus   Booknerd CAGiversary!   2029 Posts   Joined 16.5 Years Ago  

doctorfaustus

Posted 04 January 2008 - 11:17 PM

Bummer.