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Neo and the Broken Vase


Poll: Would Neo have broken the vase if the Oracle said nothing about it?

Would Neo have broken the vase if the Oracle said nothing about it?

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#1 DarkNessBear   CABear CAGiversary!   6478 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

DarkNessBear

Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:00 AM

This has been bothering me...

Would Neo have broken the vase if the Oracle didn't say anything about it?

#2 Scorch   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   37487 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:07 AM

Nope. Because his attention wouldn't have been on it. He wouldn't have turned and said "what vase?" and looked for it.

#3 DarkNessBear   CABear CAGiversary!   6478 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

DarkNessBear

Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:16 AM

So she knew that if she said it he would break the vase? Or did he she see him break the vase when she said "don't worry about the vase." Then why would she want to break the vase?

ARGH!

#4 djkunai   Banned Banned   3092 Posts   Joined 13.5 Years Ago  

Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:34 AM

No, he knocked it over because she said it. It would ahve been more impressive if she wrote down that he broke the vase, and then showed him the note right after it happened. But it didn't- she made him knock it over.

#5 jaykrue   Professor Of Pimpology CAGiversary!   8592 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 01:26 AM

If the Oracle were the conniving sort (and I suspect she is), you could say it was a bit of a contrived set up to make Neo believe in his ultimate destiny. It's a physical play on the psychological trick of telling someone "Don't think of pink elephants". Once a person is told this, their mind can't stop thinking of anything but pink elephants.

I don't think the vase would have been broken had the Oracle not informed Neo of its existence. There wouldn't be a need for him to turn around in order to bump the vase. The vase-bumping was there to establish her prescience as a bona-fide Oracle. The thing is, she's merely informing the latest iteration of Neo of what the previous Neos did (assuming the Creator's assertion that the Matrix is only the newest version and we only have his word that it's true) and not truly an 'oracle' in the truest sense of the word.

#6 Puffa469   is too Pro Shops CAGiversary!   6105 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 01:29 AM

Now I want a cookie.

#7 Magehart   It's on like Donkey Kong! CAGiversary!   2684 Posts   Joined 13.3 Years Ago  

Magehart

Posted 21 January 2008 - 01:31 AM

Lemme give you a better analogy.

Go up to your friend and say, "I'm sorry about that time you got kicked in the nuts."

Friend: "What time?"

*wham!*

#8 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15226 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:48 AM

If the Oracle were the conniving sort (and I suspect she is), you could say it was a bit of a contrived set up to make Neo believe in his ultimate destiny. It's a physical play on the psychological trick of telling someone "Don't think of pink elephants". Once a person is told this, their mind can't stop thinking of anything but pink elephants.


Reminds me of this book.

#9 jaykrue   Professor Of Pimpology CAGiversary!   8592 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:53 AM

Reminds me of this book.


Looks interesting. Sounds like the same kind of stuff about neuro-linguistic programming. :lol:

#10 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15226 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:13 AM

Looks interesting. Sounds like the same kind of stuff about neuro-linguistic programming. :lol:


Yeah there are alot of Derren Brown videos on youtube where you can see a mentalist in action - pretty impressive stuff.

Here's one dealing with NLP - not his best segment IMO but it is topical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg

#11 joe2187   I AM THE DANGER! CAGiversary!   6359 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:29 AM

.....I have absolutely no fucken clue what you guys are talking about.

#12 zewone   Thursday CAGiversary!   43156 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:38 AM

No, he knocked it over because she said it. It would ahve been more impressive if she wrote down that he broke the vase, and then showed him the note right after it happened. But it didn't- she made him knock it over.

That would have been far from impressive.

If that was the case, this topic wouldn't have been created because it would be just another ho-hum scene in a movie.

The way it played out, you can't really be for certain and it makes you think.

#13 jaykrue   Professor Of Pimpology CAGiversary!   8592 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:43 AM

Yeah there are alot of Derren Brown videos on youtube where you can see a mentalist in action - pretty impressive stuff.

Here's one dealing with NLP - not his best segment IMO but it is topical.


Nice. :lol::applause: Didn't realize my pink elephant example falls right under NLP.

#14 DarkNessBear   CABear CAGiversary!   6478 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

DarkNessBear

Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:16 AM

Yeah there are alot of Derren Brown videos on youtube where you can see a mentalist in action - pretty impressive stuff.

Here's one dealing with NLP - not his best segment IMO but it is topical.


So is that a real thing?

Is it like Subliminal messages?

But, about my original question. What do you think she was visioning when she saw the vase? Or did she just know that NEO would break the vase if she would of said something.

#15 wubb   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   20114 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:57 PM

Here's the scene on youtube:



I say no.

#16 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15226 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:41 PM

So is that a real thing?

Is it like Subliminal messages?


IMO it's a similar concept.

I'd say the difference is that NLP could be seen as a movement or a psychological model, wheras the term "subliminal message" usually refers to a much narrower concept. IMO the efficacy of subliminal messages is dubious at best, whereas NLP shows more promise in producing real-world results.

#17 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15226 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:53 PM

But, about my original question. What do you think she was visioning when she saw the vase? Or did she just know that NEO would break the vase if she would of said something.


She is a program designed to intuit the actions of human beings.

My guess is that it was a calculation looking something like this:

If ("Likelihood of vase breaking" times "Benefit of being seen as Oracle") divided by ("Risk that Neo will not break vase" times "Loss of credibility") equals an acceptable ratio of risk/reward.
Then run "BreakVase" program.
Else talk up some mumbo-jumbo and send Neo back to more words of wisdom from the freaky spoon kid.

#18 yummytyson   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   763 Posts   Joined 11.8 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:57 PM

.....I have absolutely no fucken clue what you guys are talking about.


The Matrix my friend. I don't think Neo would've knocked the vase down, he wouldn't have turned if she never mentioned it.

#19 DarkNessBear   CABear CAGiversary!   6478 Posts   Joined 13.7 Years Ago  

DarkNessBear

Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:30 AM

The Matrix my friend. I don't think Neo would've knocked the vase down, he wouldn't have turned if she never mentioned it.


Yea, but he had a chance to catch it!

She is a program designed to intuit the actions of human beings.

My guess is that it was a calculation looking something like this:

If ("Likelihood of vase breaking" times "Benefit of being seen as Oracle") divided by ("Risk that Neo will not break vase" times "Loss of credibility") equals an acceptable ratio of risk/reward.
Then run "BreakVase" program.
Else talk up some mumbo-jumbo and send Neo back to more words of wisdom from the freaky spoon kid.


Hmm, what if it was a test to see if he was the One...

Cause she does say, "Sorry kid you're not the one" So maybe if he didn't break it, then he defies the code of being human... hmmm...

#20 wubb   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   20114 Posts   Joined 15.3 Years Ago  

Posted 22 January 2008 - 12:37 PM

Hmm, what if it was a test to see if he was the One...

Cause she does say, "Sorry kid you're not the one" So maybe if he didn't break it, then he defies the code of being human... hmmm...


Interesting.

#21 jaykrue   Professor Of Pimpology CAGiversary!   8592 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 22 January 2008 - 02:39 PM

Hmm, what if it was a test to see if he was the One...

Cause she does say, "Sorry kid you're not the one" So maybe if he didn't break it, then he defies the code of being human... hmmm...


If the Creator is to be believed then there wouldn't be a need to test Neo. The Oracle would've already known him from his previous iterations. The Neo we see in the first Matrix is supposedly the 7th version of him. Saying "sorry, kid you're not the one" could simply mean she was using a touch of reverse psychology on him.