Which processor and motherboard should I get? Please Help!

jimbodan

jimbodan

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Ok, so I've been putting off getting a brand new PC since July (It was supposed to be a Graduation Gift, but I felt I would be better off waiting until I really needed one, that time is now) and I think now is the time finally cash in on my present!

EDIT:
Ok, now that I've got most of the details sorted out, I have a couple more questions.

I want the Athlon 64 cpu, but which one? These are my choices, along with the costs. I'm thinking of either going with the 3500 or 3800. Is the 4000 or FX-55 that much better?

AMD® Athlon-64 3700+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $374]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3500+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $160]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $550]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 4000+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $650]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 FX-55 CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $710]


Here are my motherboard choices:

Abit KV8 Pro Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $12]
Asus K8N nForce3-250 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $15]
Asus K8V-SE Deluxe Via-K8T800 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $53]
GigaByte K8NS nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard
GigaByte K8NS-Pro nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $25]
Foxconn 755A01-6EKRS SIS-755 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $6]
[939-pin] Abit AV8 w/LAN, 5.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $31]
[939-pin] Asus A8V-Deluxe w/LAN, 7.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $59]
[939-pin] GigaByte K8NS Ultra-939 nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $44]
[939-pin] MSI K8T Neo2-FIR Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $41]
[939-pin] MSI K8N Neo2-Platinum nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard

I'm assuming I'd have to get one of the 939 pin boards? Which one is best?
 
1. It is a very good processor. However, the only thing is that AMD has just released a new Processor type, the Athlon 64. I would recommend looking into that. Make sure to get the 939 pin variety, for maximum upgradebility.
2. If you decide to stick with the Athlon XP, that motherboard is among the best. Good choice. I'm not sure which motherboard to pick if you decide to go with Athlon 64; maybe someone else can help.
3. Your video card is amazing! Another good choice. Its the new top tier Nvidia Card. Stick with it, as there is not much difference between it and the ATI version. Its all preference.
4. RAID can do two things. It can either mirror one hard drive onto the other, so it is a perfect backup. Or, it can make the two drives act as one, so the computer goes really fast. It depends on preference- do you want a backup Hard Drive, or a faster computer?
6. Your sound card is top of the line. Another great choice.
 
[quote name='regisphilbi0']1. It is a very good processor. However, the only thing is that AMD has just released a new Processor type, the Athlon 64. I would recommend looking into that. Make sure to get the 939 pin variety, for maximum upgradebility.
2. If you decide to stick with the Athlon XP, that motherboard is among the best. Good choice. I'm not sure which motherboard to pick if you decide to go with Athlon 64; maybe someone else can help.
3. Your video card is amazing! Another good choice. Its the new top tier Nvidia Card. Stick with it, as there is not much difference between it and the ATI version. Its all preference.
4. RAID can do two things. It can either mirror one hard drive onto the other, so it is a perfect backup. Or, it can make the two drives act as one, so the computer goes really fast. It depends on preference- do you want a backup Hard Drive, or a faster computer?
6. Your sound card is top of the line. Another great choice.[/quote]

Thanks! Yeah I definately want the 64 processor, hopefully someone else can recomend me a board for that. Thanks a ton for answering the RAID question, I definately want the 2 drives act as one, not the data mirroring.
 
Sorry I dont have any help. I thought I might, so I checked out the thread. This post may seem pointless, but I wanted to thank you for showing me that site. I know where I am getting my laptop before I go to college now. These prices seem great.
 
If you're sticking w/ the XP, get the A7N8X-E, and get a Barton Core Athlon XP 2500+

Why you ask? Well, a strange quirk w/ the E version is that it recognizes that particular XP as a 3200. You actually have to set down the bus speed to 300/200 in order to have it read the 2500 as a 2500.

Another reason is that the E version has 2 LAN ports: 1 standard 100/10 and one that is a Gigabit port. This is not necessary if you don't have a connection to a school line (T1 or up) but if you have something close to that, the differences in speed are quite noticable.

Also, as a STOP or standard operation procedure, anytime you buy AMD, get a decent heatsink as AMD's chips tend towards the warm end unlike the Intels (although, I'd buy one if I got an Intel just as matter of tradition)... although AMD I hear is close (if not already) to solving the heating issue.

All in all good choices. I'd choose something different for the DDR but I really don't see a difference performance-wise but I have my own preferences (in case you were wondering, I'd go w/ Corsair XMS)
 
Thanks everyone! So it seems like the Sound and Video cards I picked are ok, I definately want RAID 0, I'll be sure to get extra fans and a heat sink, So I guess that just leaves processor and mortherboard. (Some one please let me know if they dissagree with the Video and Sound cards.)

I've been assuming that the AMD 64's were better then the AMD XP's am I right in this assumption? Or should I at least consider the XP's? Also am I right in thinking that AMD is the way to go over intel?

I still need some motherboard recomendations too!
 
Two quick things I thought of.

First, the athlon64s are significantly faster than XPs, a difference that will only grow when Windows XP 64-bit goes to release some time in 2005.

Second, if I were spending as much money as you are doing, I'd wait a month so I can buy a AMD-based computer based on a motherboard that does PCI-Express. PCI-Express is the replacement for AGP that is being phased in right now (new intel chipsets have already been using PCI-Express instead of AGP, the athlon64 motherboards with PCI-Express are being release in limited quantities now). The only thing is, I don't think they have release a PCI-Express version of the 6800 Ultra yet, but it's in the pipelines for release soon.

Read up especially on NVIDIA's SLI technology- PCI-Express only motherboards with two video card slots that give over a 50% boost in gaming performance if you use two video cards compared to one card.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk2

This article's a month old, but I don't think there's anything that's changed since. The cards and motherboards are just starting to appear at places like newegg.
 
[quote name='mbstuff']Two quick things I thought of.

First, the athlon64s are significantly faster than XPs, a difference that will only grow when Windows XP 64-bit goes to release some time in 2005.

Second, if I were spending as much money as you are doing, I'd wait a month so I can buy a AMD-based computer based on a motherboard that does PCI-Express. PCI-Express is the replacement for AGP that is being phased in right now (new intel chipsets have already been using PCI-Express instead of AGP, the athlon64 motherboards with PCI-Express are being release in limited quantities now). The only thing is, I don't think they have release a PCI-Express version of the 6800 Ultra yet, but it's in the pipelines for release soon.

Read up especially on NVIDIA's SLI technology- PCI-Express only motherboards with two video card slots that give over a 50% boost in gaming performance if you use two video cards compared to one card.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk2

This article's a month old, but I don't think there's anything that's changed since. The cards and motherboards are just starting to appear at places like newegg.[/quote]

he's got a good point, if it's not totally critical that you get a computer, wait another half year or so since PCI-E should have become more common and so you have a few other choices. If you need a system now, the 64's would be more valuable in the long term since they support 64-bit architecture but are also still significantly expensive. If you need cheap, the XPs are the way to go since they give good speeds but are still relatively inexpensive. There are pros/cons to both choices. If you're thinking long term, go the athlon 64 route. Short term - XP route. But also consider getting a PCI-E enabled mobo (geekspeak for motherboard).
 
Thanks for that article! After reading it, I'm pretty sure I want to go the SLI/PCI-E route.

So now I have a couple new questions:

1. Does Intel already have motherboards with PCI-E? Also does Intel have any 64 bit processors?

2. If I decide to wait and go with AMD about how long do you guys figure I'll have to wait to get a good PCI-E mobo, and a good SLI video card for about the price that I'd pay for the 6800 ultra and regular mobo now?

3. If this technology is going to be significantly more expensive for 6 months to a year, I doubt I can wait, so I'd still like a few motherboard recomendations.
 
Intel already has PCI-E motherboards widely available. It also has 64-bit cpus, but they're not for the consumer market. Basically, because Athlon64 cpus dominate the performance race against pentium 4s now and at least for the next 6 months, the only real option for gamers are athlon 64s.

As for the PCI-E motherboards for athlon 64s, it's all about supply and demand now. EVERYBODY wants one of these motherboards, myself included, and the retailers are jacking up the prices with the limited supply available right now. In at most two months, though, I expect competitive pricing. I don't expect any price difference between current motherboards and PCI-E based motherboards, except if it has SLI. I expect to pay about a $30 premium to get a motherboard with SLI when I start shopping for one in a couple of months. I'm waiting for all the reviews to get sorted out.
 
Intel implemented 64-bit functionality in their Pentium 4s, but they're still worse than Athlon 64s because the A64s have an integrated memory controller that really keeps memory access latency down. Hyper-Threading isn't that useful since it's only useful for multitasking with less CPU-intensive tasks (since you're basically dividing your CPU power) and it needs software support to really work. Get a socket 939 A64 because dual channel memory setups are about 15% faster than single channel. A entry level one is the s939 A64 3000+ (make sure it's the s939 version and not the socket 754 version - the difference is that the s939 version is 1800 MHz while the s754 is 2000 MHz). Mid range is A64 3500+ (again, make sure it's s939). Top of the line is the FX-55 but I'd recommend one notch down to FX-53 or Athlon 4000+ (the FX-53 if you want to overclock a lot).
The NForce-4 and K8T890 are already out, so if you can find one get one by Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, or MSI or another top-tier motherboard manufacturer. The Asus mobo is very good, but I forget its name.
Keep the 6800 if you can, (I'd get a 6800 GT to save a little money) but if you can't find a PCI-E version, there's nothing wrong with getting a Radeon X800XT PE or X850XT instead. Sure, Shader Model 3.0 isn't supported and SLI is out of the question but performance is equal in most games (Doom 3 is the exception, but that's kind of id's fault). To be futureproof though, only the 6800 ultra or gt will do.
 
[quote name='CrimsonGeist']Intel implemented 64-bit functionality in their Pentium 4s, but they're still worse than Athlon 64s because the A64s have an integrated memory controller that really keeps memory access latency down. Hyper-Threading isn't that useful since it's only useful for multitasking with less CPU-intensive tasks (since you're basically dividing your CPU power) and it needs software support to really work. Get a socket 939 A64 because dual channel memory setups are about 15% faster than single channel. A entry level one is the s939 A64 3000+ (make sure it's the s939 version and not the socket 754 version - the difference is that the s939 version is 1800 MHz while the s754 is 2000 MHz). Mid range is A64 3500+ (again, make sure it's s939). Top of the line is the FX-55 but I'd recommend one notch down to FX-53 or Athlon 4000+ (the FX-53 if you want to overclock a lot).
The NForce-4 and K8T890 are already out, so if you can find one get one by Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, or MSI or another top-tier motherboard manufacturer. The Asus mobo is very good, but I forget its name.
Keep the 6800 if you can, (I'd get a 6800 GT to save a little money) but if you can't find a PCI-E version, there's nothing wrong with getting a Radeon X800XT PE or X850XT instead. Sure, Shader Model 3.0 isn't supported and SLI is out of the question but performance is equal in most games (Doom 3 is the exception, but that's kind of id's fault). To be futureproof though, only the 6800 ultra or gt will do.[/quote]

Thanks for the info.

Do you think it's worth it to wait for SLI and PCI-E to be more common and cheaper? Or would I be better off waiting like a month for the AMD 64 prices to drop a little and getting that, and leave the rest of my rig alone?

Basically how much more perfomance will I get by waiting for PCI-E and SLI cards? I plan on only buying 1 video card in the near future too, so will SLI even really increase my performance if I'm only going to have 1 video card for awhile?
 
SLI only affects having two video cards. And they must be the same type- i.e. two 6800 GTs. I would wait a month for the AThlon 64 prices to go down, along with the availibility of PCI-E for Athlon 64 boards. THen order the computer. It will greatly help your ability to upgrade.
 
[quote name='jimbodan']Thanks for the info.[/quote] No prob :)

[quote name='jimbodan']Do you think it's worth it to wait for SLI and PCI-E to be more common and cheaper? Or would I be better off waiting like a month for the AMD 64 prices to drop a little and getting that, and leave the rest of my rig alone?

Basically how much more perfomance will I get by waiting for PCI-E and SLI cards? I plan on only buying 1 video card in the near future too, so will SLI even really increase my performance if I'm only going to have 1 video card for awhile?[/quote]

PCI-E doesn't offer much more than AGP 8x or even 4x in terms of performance, unless if you use the video card to capture video aand watch video at the same time (then the benefits of serial vs parallel kick in). Games won't take advantage of the increased bandwidth for a while. Of course, if you plan to use SLI, it only works with PCI-E.
 
So basically PCI-E is more or less useless unless I plan on getting SLI, and if I get SLI it's more or less useless unless I get 2 SLI cards?
 
[quote name='bignick']If you are gonna drop 2500, I would get the latest and greatest technolog. PCI express SLI[/quote]

I'm just not sure 2,500$ will cover PCI-E and SLI, since it's so new I imagine the prices on them will be really jacked up for at least 4 months or so.
 
My current computer is a P4 3.4, 1Gig DDR2, X800XT PCI-e, it runs all current games 1680*1050 with all the goodies (runs 1600*1200 on my other monitor too). SLI sounds great, but is probably overkill for most people. Rather than buying two high end cards now, I would rather have one now and after a generation or two of new tech buy a new one.
 
[quote name='jimbodan']So basically PCI-E is more or less useless unless I plan on getting SLI, and if I get SLI it's more or less useless unless I get 2 SLI cards?[/quote]

I was just wondering if my above statement is more or less correct, or really wrong?
 
PCI-E is NOT useless without SLI! PCI-E Is the next gen graphics card hook up. Definitely go for a PCI-E card. SLI is useless without two exact same graphics cards. Do not go for SLI.
 
[quote name='regisphilbi0']PCI-E is NOT useless without SLI! PCI-E Is the next gen graphics card hook up. Definitely go for a PCI-E card. SLI is useless without two exact same graphics cards. Do not go for SLI.[/quote]

So PCI-E actually provides perfomance benefits if I only have 1 non SLI card?
 
AGP, while not quite maxed out as far as bandwidth goes, is near the end of its lifecycle. PCI-e is the new standard. PCI-e right now has limited benefits, but going forward will far surpass AGP standard. SLI allows you to run two PCI-e cards, you can get a higher frames per second count. The question is, do you need the higher frame rate now? Probably not. My system supports PCI-e, but not SLI. I have an X800XT and run everything smooth. Personally, I think the extra $500 (aprox.) for a second card would be overkill. I would much rather save the money for, lets say, the X1100XST or whatever comes out 12-18 months down the road as it will support pixel shader 5.6a or some crap that my current card does not. So, currently, 1 PCI-e card does not really have much benefit over AGP except you are helping to future proof your system as you video card manufacturers will be putting more emphasis on PCI-e.
 
[quote name='bmsdaddy']AGP, while not quite maxed out as far as bandwidth goes, is near the end of its lifecycle. PCI-e is the new standard. PCI-e right now has limited benefits, but going forward will far surpass AGP standard. SLI allows you to run two PCI-e cards, you can get a higher frames per second count. The question is, do you need the higher frame rate now? Probably not. My system supports PCI-e, but not SLI. I have an X800XT and run everything smooth. Personally, I think the extra $500 (aprox.) for a second card would be overkill. I would much rather save the money for, lets say, the X1100XST or whatever comes out 12-18 months down the road as it will support pixel shader 5.6a or some crap that my current card does not. So, currently, 1 PCI-e card does not really have much benefit over AGP except you are helping to future proof your system as you video card manufacturers will be putting more emphasis on PCI-e.[/quote]

Hmm, thanks. I think I'm going to go with AGP over PCI-E. The way I figure things is that PCI-E is too expensive and too new so there aren't many choices and it really isn't even much better CURRENTLY. In a year or 2 when I want to upgrade I'll just buy a new PCI-E mobo, and I'm sure it will be better and cheaper then anything PCI-E I can get now.
 
Ok, now that I've got most of the details sorted out, I have a couple more questions.

I want the Athlon 64 cpu, but which one? These are my choices, along with the costs. I'm thinking of either going with the 3500 or 3800. Is the 4000 or FX-55 that much better?

AMD® Athlon-64 3700+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $374]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3500+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $160]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $550]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 4000+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $650]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 FX-55 CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $710]


Here are my motherboard choices:

Abit KV8 Pro Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $12]
Asus K8N nForce3-250 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $15]
Asus K8V-SE Deluxe Via-K8T800 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $53]
GigaByte K8NS nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard
GigaByte K8NS-Pro nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $25]
Foxconn 755A01-6EKRS SIS-755 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $6]
[939-pin] Abit AV8 w/LAN, 5.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $31]
[939-pin] Asus A8V-Deluxe w/LAN, 7.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $59]
[939-pin] GigaByte K8NS Ultra-939 nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $44]
[939-pin] MSI K8T Neo2-FIR Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $41]
[939-pin] MSI K8N Neo2-Platinum nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard

I'm assuming I'd have to get one of the 939 pin boards? Which one is best?
 
[quote name='jimbodan']Ok, now that I've got most of the details sorted out, I have a couple more questions.

I want the Athlon 64 cpu, but which one? These are my choices, along with the costs. I'm thinking of either going with the 3500 or 3800. Is the 4000 or FX-55 that much better?

AMD® Athlon-64 3700+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $374]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3500+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $160]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 3800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $550]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 4000+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $650]
[939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 FX-55 CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+ $710]


Here are my motherboard choices:

Abit KV8 Pro Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $12]
Asus K8N nForce3-250 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $15]
Asus K8V-SE Deluxe Via-K8T800 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $53]
GigaByte K8NS nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard
GigaByte K8NS-Pro nForce-3 250 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $25]
Foxconn 755A01-6EKRS SIS-755 Chipset w/5.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $6]
[939-pin] Abit AV8 w/LAN, 5.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $31]
[939-pin] Asus A8V-Deluxe w/LAN, 7.1 Sound, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $59]
[939-pin] GigaByte K8NS Ultra-939 nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $44]
[939-pin] MSI K8T Neo2-FIR Via-K8T800 Pro Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard [+ $41]
[939-pin] MSI K8N Neo2-Platinum nForce-3 Ultra Chipset w/7.1 Sound, LAN, IEEE-1394, USB 2.0 8x AGP Motherboard

I'm assuming I'd have to get one of the 939 pin boards? Which one is best?[/quote]

make sure the processor is 939, and then get whatever speed you feel best fits your budget.

as for the mobo, all of these look good. recommended manufacturer would be Asus and the K8V or A8V, but look carefully at the features of each. for example, some nvidia chipsets (such as the K8N and K8NS sets) have nvidia's hardware firewall, which really take a load off you CPU. do you really want a raid setup (and, do you have at least 2 identical size hard drives), or do you need the hifi onboard sound (still no substitute for a good sound card), or etc. also some are better for overclocking, having BIOS support for multiplier adjustment, voltage adjustments, fsb overclocking, agp/pci clock locks, etc.

Tom's Hardware Guide has a review of nine S939 motherboards here: http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20050103/index.html
 
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