CAGcast #132: Mediocrely Average

CheapyD

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[img-l=1]481[/img-l][preview]Cheapy returns from his summer PAX vacation to find a feisty Wombat and a small pile of games waiting for him (Too Human, Mercanaries 2, Tiger Woods 09). We tackle a bunch of interesting topics along with new releases, the latest video game industry and shopping news, your CAGbag questions and much more!


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[podcast]23[/podcast]
Download - 110 minutes, 44MB
[digg]http://digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast[/digg][/preview]

Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):



Bonus Picture!


By popular request, bjwoodruff's CAGs On News Theme Song
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/podcast/cagsonews.mp3
 
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Aaaa, about time, I knew camping out on the home page would work... Getting it through Zune software... now (yeah, laugh all you want). :V

Now to ... coff ... listen to this "every day" in the walk-in cooler I work in. Yes, on repeat, har har.
 
Downloading now. iTunes FTW!

Edit: Here are some photos I took of Cheapy and his fanbase at the PAX discussion panel. Mrs. Cheapy and I had a good laugh at Cheapy's celeb status. I just wish I had a photo of the guy who asked for Cheapy's autograph!

http://picasaweb.google.com/daphatty/PAXDiscussionPanelFeatCheapyD#5243529188120877570

Edit #2: Jesus, since when did Wombat become the vocabulary police?! Who gives a shit about the use of Average?!?!

Edit #3: Sorry Wombat, but your interpretation about the "public access to E3" rumor is WAY off. Cheapy is correct regarding the reason why E3 as we once knew it is no more. Smaller developers/publishers are being charged hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to be members of the ESA. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are likely paying out millions per year. The only solution is for the ESA to open E3 to the public and apply the ticket proceeds to offset the annual fees for its members.
 
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ahhh finally, I was backlogged on cagcasts and finished them all last week and been itching for a new one
 
[quote name='menikmati']36 minutes in, pretty entertaining so far.

Also, isn't the Edge card $14.99? Not $10 as you guys mentioned.[/quote]

Yes, my mistake. I kind of count on Wombat to correct me on that stuff since I'm 5,000 miles away from the nearest GameStop.
I had checked the GameStop website before the show, but they do not list the price.

It used to be $10 when it was EB. Sorry about that!

Also, I totally forgot to talk about CASTLE CRASHERS, which I finished this weekend. Oh well, there is always next week.
Hopefully I can get the online working by then.
 
Word Association is bad. Use numbers or stars, no words. Excellent to Good is a great leap, but people will try to figure out where Great is. Don't confuse the people with simple words.

EDIT: For the sake of Wombat, "My definition of average is..."

I won't go farther than that.
 
This show was average. You might want to say it was "ok" for the middle score or you could just totally rip off old school Gamepro all the way and steal their cool freak faces.

P.S. average means normal too.
 
I thought Wombat was being a bit argumentative in the show. Arguing silly things like semantics or whether or not sales would go up or down if publishers stopped letting Gamestop carry their titles. But I guess we all have our off days. Cheapy can be the same same at times.

Overall a good show though. Hopefully I can catch you guys Thursday on the live show, I'm not quiet. =)
 
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Here's an interesting question: When the console industry goes all digital with their games, who's going to sell their consoles?

Are you telling me retailers are going to be happy with the games industry taking away a portion of their sales? I highly doubt it. I say that you will see a major push from retailers when the industry does this, and console sales will hurt for a while.
 
[quote name='thorbahn3']This show was average. You might want to say it was "ok" for the middle score or you could just totally rip off old school Gamepro all the way and steal their cool freak faces.

P.S. average means normal too.[/quote]


You rang? ;)

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I would have alternated Cheapy and Wombat head edits but that's a lot of work, and I'm lazy. :oops:

So, this episode's a
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?

I haven't listened to it as it's downloading on iTunes right now so I get to listen to it tomorrow.
 
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[quote name='KingBroly']Here's an interesting question: When the console industry goes all digital with their games, who's going to sell their consoles?

Are you telling me retailers are going to be happy with the games industry taking away a portion of their sales? I highly doubt it. I say that you will see a major push from retailers when the industry does this, and console sales will hurt for a while.[/quote]

The industry will just evolve. Instead of selling games they will sell point cards like they do now, but you will see this happen in much larger numbers.

As a consumer though I think it royally sucks. Why? Because as a digital download the games I purchase are not worth the hardrive space they take up. Where physical games are worth atleast 30% of the value I paid for them for a while.

Take my most recent experience for example. I was able to trade in my entire collection of DS games, 2 DS Lite consoles along with 1 PSP a few PSP games and a few Wii games which gave me a grand total of almost $800. I was then able to purchase a brand new PS3 MGS4 bundle (didn't pay **any tax because it was a trade purchase) and a butt load of games.

So Now I'm a proud owner of a PS3 and have a great start on a new collection all because of old stuff I wasn't playing anymore. How great is that?

Had all those games been digital this would not have been possible.
 
:lol: @ Wombat thinking Daphatty was black.

The problem with Wombat's "simple" method of getting the average game score is that many games don't get reviewed at all because most game sites ignore the crap Wii and DS games that show up at Walmart, so how can you have an average of all of the games that are released when a lot of them are not reviewed? The scales are automatically tipped in the favor of higher scores because the dreck is rarely dipped into for reviews.

Call the middle score the "Wombat," so if you're using words for the scale, "Wombat" should be in the middle.

I have to say the only part of the SOCOM beta I'd hate the developers for is that I've yet to get the beta code email I signed up back on August 12th, so I got lucky that another CAG offered up an extra code that he had, which he was able to register and receive within minutes. There's no excuse to not have sent out all of the beta code emails to everybody that preordered and signed up on the beta site two or three days after it has started. I can forgive server issues, as long as they're fixed for the full release, but that is just ridiculous.

I'm considering a PSP 3000 since my original PSP is broken, or at least the power switch is. The lighter, slimmer build, better screen, and mic are reason enough for me to fork over the money to get one.

Good show. I'll definitely show up for the live show this week since I had no clue you did a second one a few weeks ago.

Edit: Just booted the SOCOM beta up and in the options, Cheapy, you can actually set the region you want to play in, so you shouldn't have any trouble with playing with CAGs in the US when you get in the beta.
 
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[quote name='daphatty']Downloading now. iTunes FTW!

Edit #3: Sorry Wombat, but your interpretation about the "public access to E3" rumor is WAY off. Cheapy is correct regarding the reason why E3 as we once knew it is no more. Smaller developers/publishers are being charged hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to be members of the ESA. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are likely paying out millions per year. The only solution is for the ESA to open E3 to the public and apply the ticket proceeds to offset the annual fees for its members.[/QUOTE]

I am not wrong, no other major convention shares the money from ticket sales with it's vendors. The game companies do make their money back, its called game sales. See the point of the show its to promote their games, if they feel the money they are spending at E3 doesn't equate to games sales, then need to revise the show so it does. Sharing ticket sale money is asinine. If game game companies are really spending millions imagine how much tickets will cost.
 
The word you guys are looking for is "Par". Wombat, AKA Mr. Aspergers, is hung up on the literal meaning of "Average". Cheapy is playing loosely with it, same as, well, everyone else reviewing games. Mediocre is FAR too pejorative and dismissive. "Par" describes that the game delivers the minimum of what should be expected given the current field, no more, no less. No, I don't play golf, I just know stuff.
 
[quote name='wiiheat']The word you guys are looking for is "Par". Wombat, AKA Mr. Aspergers, is hung up on the literal meaning of "Average". Cheapy is playing loosely with it, same as, well, everyone else reviewing games. Mediocre is FAR too pejorative and dismissive. "Par" describes that the game delivers the minimum of what should be expected given the current field, no more, no less. No, I don't play golf, I just know stuff.[/QUOTE]

That works for me.

As far as others before you cpmplain about my definitionof Average answer these three question:

What is an Average temperature for a day in your hometown in September?

What is an Average salary for your state?

What is an Average score for a videogame?
 
TNA Wrestling has a lot of former WWE superstars:
- Kurt Angle
- Booker T
- BG James/Kip James - New Age Outlaws
- Christian Cage - Christian (Edge's old Tag Team partner)
- Scott Steiner
- Kevin Nash
- Jeff Jarrett
- Team 3D - The Dudley Boyz
- Rhyno
- Jay Lethal - Perfect Imitator of Randy Macho man Savage.
 
Damn it to hell! Why do you guys post the new episodes after I leave for work?! Oh, well. Gotta wait until tomorrow morning to listen.:D
 
I think Wombat is not wrong in that "average" is a poor descriptor.

But, not for the reason he thinks it's poor. His reasoning is nit-picking at best and just makes him sound similar to the geek amoung geeks who wants to correct everyone else's pronunciation of Klingon words. It's all semantics. Everyone knows what is meant, but he just has to correct the others. In a 5 point scale, the meaning of a 3 star score called "average" is easy to understand and Wombat's freak-out was just overkill.

I think the problem is that Americans are raised on a grading scale in school were a "C" grade of 70-79% is called "Average" and that does not match what most reviewers consider an average score. I think Wombat has over-thought the whole issue.

I like the 5 point scale and/or the 1 up letter grade scale.
 
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I'm not sure why Wombat feels so strongly about the use of the word average, when not referring to the mathematical definition. Here is Webster's definition:

Main Entry:
average
Function:
adjective
Date:
1770

1: equaling an arithmetic mean2 a: being about midway between extremes b: not out of the ordinary : common
— av·er·age·ly adverb
— av·er·age·ness noun

The definition I highlighted is the one Cheapy was using for his review scale, which is completely appropriate.
 
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I was at PAX and kinda looked for Cheapy. I never saw him, but never really looked. I guess I figured a tall, bald guy would stick out. I left Sunday morning and didn't make it to the panel at the Walrus corner.

I did see people from 1up, Giant Bomb, Morgan Webb and Adam Sessler and MS people like Major Nelson, Trixie and Gamerscore Blog dudes.
 
Thanks for the Jaime Lynne Spears update Wombat. You don't have to live in Japan to avoid that garbage. Just turn off the tv. I barely watch tv, and I sure as hell don't get my news form that propaganda machine FOX. btw Wombot won that average argument. If anyone wants a great bluetooth headset check out the jawbone. ecost.com has it for $59.
 
Wombat, normally I agree with you on most things, but your hatred of the use of average was way off. Your stuck on the mathematical meaning, but (and as shown above) when used as an adjective its appropriate.

For me when ever I talk about an "average" game I say something like. It was OK, a least in my mind that's between Good and bad.

We could always go with a scale of: Terrible, Bad, OK, Good, Great, it's simple and easy to understand. Of course that might be just as bad as the DHS terror scale.

Good show guys!
 
Happy Birthday tomorrow Cheapy, I honestly remembered your birthday the instant I pressed play on my iPod for the CAGcast. Buy hey it's nice to know someone cares lol
 
I completely agree with Wombat that "mediocre" is a more specific definition of what you're looking for in your review scale, but with that said I think it has an unintended negative connotation not associated with the word "average" as used in most reviews.
 
I've never written in before, but I felt the need to after listening to this weeks show. What the fuck is up with the bickering between Wombat and Cheapy?! Arguing about whether "average" or "mediocre" is the correct term to describe a game thats inbetween good and bad. Big fucking deal!! I think we all know what you mean when you use either term.

And what's with Cheapy giving Wombat shit about not having access to the list of new releases in the outline? If you know that Wombat is not a moderator and does not have access to that forum, how hard is it to click "Control+C" and "Control+V" and put the list in the outline?! Also, shouldn't Wombat BE a moderator by now? I'm still a fairly new CAG and I don't use the forums much, but one would assume that a co-host of the podcast would at the very least be a moderator.

Every week now you guys seem to be bitching at each other about the stupidest shit. Settle the fuck down and get on with the show!

Wombat & Cheapy: Viva Pinata Trouble in Paradise is fucking addicting as hell, and its a total blast. Yes, the game is very similar to the first one, but there are enough changes to the game and enough new things to warrant the $40 price tag. I picked it up on Thursday and my girlfriend and I have been playing the game almost non-stop. If we aren't sleeping, the 360 is on and we are playing Viva Pinata: TiP. Wombat: To send a Pinata off to a party, you need to fill up its candiosity meter. To do this you can do many things like naming them, feeding them items, or purchasing candy from Costalot's store.

Also, keep your politics out of my VIDEO GAME podcasts please.
 
I have to agree with Wombat here. Of course I think that reviews shouldn't have a number scale, but instead should just say at what price you would recommend the game. That's really all I care about. How much should I pay for a specific game, full price or rent or wait for a price drop.
 
I realize what you're trying to say Wombat, but I think you're being a little too fascistic about the use of the word. I'm the same way, on occasion. Like the use of the word, "epic."

Your chocolate milk is not epic, child. It may taste delicious. It may even be excellent in its deliciousness, but that shit is not epic. Shut. The fuck. Up.
 
That episode was soooooo average....

just kidding. it was above average. Good show guys.

(EDIT):
Wombat, the part with you arguing non-stop about E3 was EXTREMELY annoying to listen to and ending it with just "I know, but.... Nevermind" was just totally lame and pointed out the ridiculousness of all your arguing.

Now I have a headache.
 
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cheap = buy it cheap
ass = crap, shit, ass. - at the very most, a rental
gamer = buy it! there is enough content in this game that will keep you playing for a month.

problem solved.
 
[quote name='seakae']
Your chocolate milk is not epic, child. It may taste delicious. It may even be excellent in its deliciousness, but that shit is not epic. Shut. The fuck. Up.[/quote]

Sounds like something that came straight out of Penny Arcade, they should put that line in Episode 2.
 
Another thing...
I listened to the rest of the podcast, and I gotta say something.
Wombat, man. I realize you have a baby. And you're probably not getting enough action, but jeebus the tension you're emitting is obnoxious. Recommendation? Wax one off before starting the podcast.
 
I agree with Wombat's argument that "mediocre" is better to use than "average" when it comes to describing games. In the way he did it was a bit annoying, almost yelling at Cheapy to get his point across. Other than that the show was pretty good.

P.S. Nice to hear from you again Cheapy.
 
I agree with Wombat on the scoring name convention. An average game, means you have to have a Perfect game and a totally garbage game to make an average game. I can see both sides of the story but to say something is average means there is also something perfect, and we all know there are very few perfect games in creation. I see it as an issue because there are to many reviewers who give games an average score and only give 1 game a year a perfect score. It's just labeling a game average in conjunction with giving other games crap as a score or perfect can mislead a reader.

I don't know where I stand on the used game issue. I want to say it is a problem since only 1 person needs to purchase a game and 4-5 others can buy it used and play the same copy. The game company only sees the initial $60 but EBgames makes anywhere from $200+ profit on that one copy. I can see how the game companies are crying because it's become so huge these days. I can't see how people will trade in a game for $5 store credit then the store sells it for $30+, this is the huge issue that burns me.
 
Another great show. I start to go into withdrawal if I don't get my CAGcast fix every week, so, needless to say, the last week was, well, tough. I wished that you had been able to answer my question in the CAGbag, but i probably submitted it too late. Keep up the work a la good.
 
it feels like a year since I downloaded CAGcast #131
great show as usual guys, keep up the great work.
 
The first podcast to ever make me slightly angry.

one of the definitions as per any dictionary:

Average
-Adjective
typical; common; ordinary

Yes, it is one of MANY definitions, but Wombat treats the use of the word like a noun, acting as if there couldn't possibly be any other use of the word.

A pure annoying close-minded temper tantrum.

Keep your rating system "Average". Stay strong Cheapy.
 
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