Team Fortress 2 Discussion Thread

Hydro2Oxide

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I'm going to stop updating the OP and just let later posts do that.

Please keep all unlock ideas to yourself or on the steampowered forums. They are usually large and there is a 0% chance Valve will see them here but they DO look at them on the official forums. Prepare to be flamed though, I will show no mercy.
 
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I have it on 360 but I can't justify paying full price for it again for pc, as amazing as it is. Just waiting for that deal to come around...
 
[quote name='shnizzle66']I have it on 360 but I can't justify paying full price for it again for pc, as amazing as it is. Just waiting for that deal to come around...[/QUOTE]

Let me start off saying I own both versions.

If you do really like the game, you would want to buy the DLC. That will cost 10 dollars, hopefully no more. Why not just get the PC version? They will likely do it in two parts, meaning at least 20 dollars.
 
I also own both versions (360 and PC). I barely touched the 360 version after I finished Portal. I bought the PC version 2 weeks ago when it was $20 on Amazon. I play this game everyday now while the 360 collects dust.. =x

-Added flag to the gamerules entity so map authors can override the HUD type being used. Allows map authors to force CTF or CP HUD to be used if they mix CTF/CP entities in the map
-Added check in CTF HUD to make sure it doesn't point at disabled capture zones when the player is carrying the flag. Allows map authors to have more than one capture zone for each team in the map
I'm kinda curious if this is going to lead to their "new" game mode that they talked about in an interview.

Scout update is coming soon. w00tz.

I still need to unlock Natasha. That might take awhile. =p
 
[quote name='shinryuu']I still need to unlock Natasha. That might take awhile. =p[/QUOTE]

This may just be me being weird but I think Natasha's slowdown is WORSE then before...
 
I really adore TF2, even though my experience is with the inferior PS3 version... but I wish Valve didn't do these class updates (especially one at a time), just release new maps and gamemodes and fix exploits.

Is this the first TF2 thread in the PC section?
 
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[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']This may just be me being weird but I think Natasha's slowdown is WORSE then before...[/QUOTE]

Is it? I haven't noticed any increase in Natasha heavies, so that might explain it. I actually thought it was a bit overpowering, so perhaps thats why they tweaked the slowdown? Well, at least they got the damage correct, right?
 
[quote name='Shrapnellistic']I really adore TF2, even though my experience is with the inferior PS3 version... but I wish Valve didn't do these class updates (especially one at a time), just release new maps and gamemodes and fix exploits.

Is this the first TF2 thread in the PC section?[/QUOTE]

Like I said in the OP, I came to nerd out about the update but there was no thread!

[quote name='shinryuu']Is it? I haven't noticed any increase in Natasha heavies, so that might explain it. I actually thought it was a bit overpowering, so perhaps thats why they tweaked the slowdown? Well, at least they got the damage correct, right?[/QUOTE]

If you read, it says "Strengthened" the slowdown effect. Seems hella weak to me.
 
My bad, I meant to say, "Surprised this is the first TF2 thread in the PC section." I guess I jumbled my thoughts before, hope to run this game on my new laptop! Still can't stress how apathetic I am towards the class updates, I'm going to have to join those ridiculous achievement servers I hear so much about... ughh... but the bomb on the rail cart looks akin to my liking and 32 players means I can actually play the maps that were too big for the 16 player cap on PS3.

Wait! Can you join a server that doesn't allow the class updates?! That'll be awesome.
 
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There are vanilla servers, that stress playing TF2 normally but I'm not sure if it disables class unlockables. You seem to be concerned about them as if they have a huge advantage, when in reality they're balanced pretty well.
 
Unlocks usually have a trade-off. They're not better so much as different.

I say usually because the needle gun unlock for the medic is 1000x better than the original.
 
bought this a few weeks ago on steam for 10 bucks I'm having a blast demo man and medic seems to be my favorite so far. Who is natasha? which characterts have they updated and are the achievements hard to get?
 
[quote name='a_bleak_tomorrow']bought this a few weeks ago on steam for 10 bucks I'm having a blast demo man and medic seems to be my favorite so far. Who is natasha? which characterts have they updated and are the achievements hard to get?[/QUOTE]

Natasha is the unlockable minigun for the Heavy Weapons Guy, as opposed to his main girl Sasha. The achievements are hella hard on medic, pretty simple on pyro, and just right for the heavy.

As far as Natasha I have new news *Frantically goes for OP edit button*
 
[quote name='shinryuu']There are vanilla servers, that stress playing TF2 normally but I'm not sure if it disables class unlockables. You seem to be concerned about them as if they have a huge advantage, when in reality they're balanced pretty well.[/quote]
[quote name='Serik']Unlocks usually have a trade-off. They're not better so much as different.

I say usually because the needle gun unlock for the medic is 1000x better than the original.[/quote]
I saw that MediGun's description and it does look way better. And the Heavy's mits and Natasha look better than the vanilla options (is the sandwich unlocked right away?).

Any '2 Day Pass' for TF2?
 
[quote name='Shrapnellistic']I saw that MediGun's description and it does look way better. And the Heavy's mits and Natasha look better than the vanilla options (is the sandwich unlocked right away?).

Any '2 Day Pass' for TF2?[/QUOTE]

I don't think you understand the trade offs. Crits for invulnerablity (medigun). Slow-down or more damage (heavy's minigun). As for the melee unlocks, those rarely make a difference and are very situational. No one unlock overpowers its original, except maybe the needle gun unlock.
 
[quote name='Shrapnellistic']Got it, need to try a demo of this on the new laptop... 2 Day Pass anyone?[/QUOTE]

When the Scout update comes out there'll be a free weekend. Regardless, unless you are a straight up Halo/Gears/CoD Mainstream only serious FPS player, you will like this game. I don't think I've met anybody who didn't love this game. It's definitely worth the 20$
 
TF2 is probably my favorite online game, surpassing even TFC, UT2k4, and Desert Combat.

I think it's because TF2 makes me laugh. That's got to be it. Play it just for the freeze shots of your killer about to be pwned by an incoming crit rocket.
 
Personally I think TF2 is probably one of my favorite shooters. I can play it how I feel like. For example I can go get a strategy with the team and make a very good team effort, or I can pick a scout and just run out and fuck stuff up.
 
[quote name='SOSTrooper']Excellent fix, even though I don't play CTF mode.[/QUOTE]

True dat, Spies could make it so any cap returns were impossible.
 
Fantastic update. Love how I can decrease the on-screen size of the weapons now.

Until now, I didn't know weapon damage had any sort of spread. Why would they do that in the first place?
 
[quote name='Serik']Fantastic update. Love how I can decrease the on-screen size of the weapons now.

Until now, I didn't know weapon damage had any sort of spread. Why would they do that in the first place?[/QUOTE]

Pretty much any game has that. One shot will do more or less damage than the other. It's just certain weapons like the Demomans pipe and sticky launcher or the Snipers sniper rifle had damage ranges that were all over the place, this simply tightened them.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Ouch, that's quite the blow to spies on CTF. Now you'll have to blow your way through the defense to get that touch. Not liking that at all.[/QUOTE]

Decloak time is what, 0.5 seconds? Just sit on top of it and decloak, you'll get your tap.
 
[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']Decloak time is what, 0.5 seconds? Just sit on top of it and decloak, you'll get your tap.[/QUOTE]
If a demo takes more than the decloak time to trigger, he's baaaaad.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']If a demo takes more than the decloak time to trigger, he's baaaaad.[/QUOTE]

Well it's called TEAM Fortress for a reason. Get someone to kill/distract the Demoman!
 
Uhhh, let's not forget that the spy got a huge buff a few updates ago. Ammo packs and dispensers recharge cloak.

In fact, I think cloak recharge makes playing the spy too easy. Lately I've been absolutely owning as a spy on Badwater, at least once I memorized the location of all the ammo packs. Now I have my attack and retreat vectors completely mapped out :D
 
Nah, spy isn't too easy. I still see a bunch of scrub spies.

That last update = heaven for Heavies. They've tweaked that minigun too much now. That thing is hella accurate now. Not sure about the flare gun. Thought it was fine as it is. Now it's annoying if you're playing a lower-hp class. What I do like about this last update after playing a few games now, is that crits are less likely. Horrah.
 
[quote name='shinryuu']Nah, spy isn't too easy. I still see a bunch of scrub spies.

That last update = heaven for Heavies. They've tweaked that minigun too much now. That thing is hella accurate now. Not sure about the flare gun. Thought it was fine as it is. Now it's annoying if you're playing a lower-hp class. What I do like about this last update after playing a few games now, is that crits are less likely. Horrah.[/QUOTE]

I think you're over reacting, look at the comparisons. It's a 10% buff at most.
 
I think that just verifies what I said. I didn't mean pin-point accurate, but.. more accurate. 10% doesn't seem much, but in-game you can definitely tell the difference.
 
[quote name='shinryuu']I think that just verifies what I said. I didn't mean pin-point accurate, but.. more accurate. 10% doesn't seem much, but in-game you can definitely tell the difference.[/QUOTE]

Oh I totally agree but it just reinforces the fact you do NOT take the heavy head on or alone.
 
Take your lumps like a man, Private Twinkle Toes!
February 4, 2009 - Greg Cherlin


On Tuesday we shipped an update that added a bunch of features / bugfixes / balancing tweaks that came out of the community's feedback. In particular, it made some changes to the underlying TF damage system, and as part of that, it modified the way critical hits are determined. We thought it might be interesting to dig a little into the change, and hopefully give you some insight into our thinking.

First, a quick primer on how the critical hit system works. Each player's chance of successfully rolling for a critical hit depends on two factors:

- A base chance, which is fixed per weapon (2% for all non-melee weapons, 15% for melee)

- An additional bonus, which is based on the amount of damage you've done to enemies in the last 20 seconds. This bonus linearly scales with damage up to a maximum of 10%.

There are two paradigms used for when to roll, and what happens on success:

- Rapid-fire weapons roll for critical hits once per second, instead of every shot. If they roll a crit, the next 2 seconds worth of their fire are marked as critical hits.

- Non-rapid fire weapons roll for critical hits each time you fire, and if they roll a crit, only that shot is marked as a critical hit.

- The sniper rifle and spy knife only score critical hits on headshots and backstabs respectively. They never roll for critical hits.

We had a few things we wanted to change with the old system:

- Reduce the overall number of critical hits occurring in the game.

- Make critical hits more skill / performance based.

Here are the actual changes we made, taken from the release notes:

- Base critical hit chance is now 2% (was 5%)

- Bonus range based on damage done changed from 0%-15% to 0%-10

- Damage range required for bonus changed from 0-1600 to 0-800

Lets dig a little deeper into these. First, the base critical hit chance was reduced from 5% to 2%. This means that if you haven't done any damage to an enemy, your crit chance is now just under half what it was previously. Secondly, the size of the bonus range was reduced by a third, but the amount of damage needed to earn that bonus was halved. To understand the effect of that, it's useful to graph it:

critgraphyn1.jpg


As you can see, the new crit chance is slightly lower across the board, which we wanted. More importantly though, is that the rate at which the crit chance increases based on the amount of recent damage you've done. We like to think of that recent damage total as a rough measure of your performance.

In thinking about the change we wanted to make to critical hits, we decided that there was a point on the graph of particular interest to us, and that was the point at which your critical hit chance was as much a result of your performance as it was the base chance. If you look at at (A) on the old line, you'll see that point isn't reached until you've done 550 recent damage, a feat that occurs about as often as our backstab code works correctly. That point is reached at (B) on the new line, around the point where you've done 175 recent damage. This means that if you've just singlehandedly killed an enemy Demoman/Soldier/Pyro/Heavy, your next 20 seconds worth of crit chances are already more a result of that kill than the base chance. As a result, if you're a highly skilled player, you're going to fire significantly more critical hits than those around you. And remember, if you've just killed 2 or 3 enemies, now's the time to push!

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2221
 
cool to see, though I like to play on either no-crit or always-crit servers in any event.

giving crits to people who are already dominating never seemed like a good idea to me.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']cool to see, though I like to play on either no-crit or always-crit servers in any event.

giving crits to people who are already dominating never seemed like a good idea to me.[/QUOTE]

It's the momentum effect.

Thanks for the tip Sporadic, updated the OP. Very cool blog post, I'm glad to see the realized the copious amounts of crits at 20% was too extreme.
 
I just thought it'd make more sense that the more a team is losing the higher crit chance to help even things out so the rounds don't end really fast when the teams are really unbalanced. Chances are that the crits won't be used to their full effect anyway in the hands of the inferior team, and if you're on the winning team, its fun to have some extra challenge.

2 minute rounds aren't really fun for anyone.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I just thought it'd make more sense that the more a team is losing the higher crit chance to help even things out so the rounds don't end really fast when the teams are really unbalanced. Chances are that the crits won't be used to their full effect anyway in the hands of the inferior team, and if you're on the winning team, its fun to have some extra challenge.

2 minute rounds aren't really fun for anyone.[/QUOTE]

Someone doesn't listen to Dev commentary ;)

The game was built on a momentum factor to stop from constant stalemates. All the map geometry and spawn times favor the attacking team. The only thing that favors defense is their spawn is generally closer to the point of conflict (See Granary, Dustbowl etc.) except for Payload maps.
 
[quote name='Shrapnellistic']Any website that archives user created maps for Team Fortress 2? Google failed me.[/QUOTE]

FPSBanana.com has scripts, maps, skins, sound effects, anything you need.
 
Where the hell is my engineer update? I've been waiting ages for it.

As for achievements, just join an achievement server. I unlocked all 9 weapons in about 2 hours. I was playing legit for about 5 hours and got one achievement, I joined the achievement server and had 10 in 2 minutes.

I hate the achievements, they're so impractical. Three medics uber at the same time? How likely is that to ever happen? Kill 50 scouts with the needle gun? If you're any good as a medic, you aren't using the needle gun. Kill 50 medics with the bone saw?

The achievements that make sense are heal 1,000,000 HP or put out 200 people on fire. That's stuff that happens through normal playing. How many times are you going to uber a scout? Even if you did, what are the chances he'd kill three people?

Achievements should enhance the game, not add arbitrary goals that will only distract you.
 
[quote name='Kayden'] Kill 50 scouts with the needle gun? If you're any good as a medic, you aren't using the needle gun.[/QUOTE]

Valve was pretty new to the idea of achievements, Medic was way too hard, Pyro was way too easy, Heavy was just right. They've hit a good point. I've got a lot of bones to pick with you though.

First, let's get to this quote. I'm sorry but that statement is so wrong I can't even begin to tell you, but I'll try. Any medic who sees a scout coming, that scout is dead due to the Blut. Now of course if you have the Blut you likely don't need this achievement but still. Any "Good medic" knows that if his patient isn't protecting him he needs to cover his own as. As a "Career" scout, battle ready medics are a big fear. I'm only 26% faster than him so he can backpedal + Blut me to death quicker than I can meat shot him. A full clip of close range needles does 400-600 damage, 15 needles and I'm down.

Secondly, why farm achievements? Valve puts a lot of work in to making them and straight up farming them is just disrespectful. I'll admit I farmed the medic ones for obvious reasons but Pyro and Heavy I did legitimately (I have zonked out stats though because I did do a few at first but then I thought 'This is lame')
 
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