2009/2010 NFL Thread - Combine Time - Draft 4/22 -

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RAMSTORIA

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[quote name='FriskyTanuki']We need a new thread for the 2009 off-season and regular season and not that Bears-exclusive thread either.[/QUOTE]

done and done.


that being said, go 49ers!
 
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Thanks.

It's too bad that my two teams pretty much just put a foot in their mouth this offseason so far (Broncos trading Cutler and Browns trading Winslow), but I guess the draft can change things a bit.

I hope Denver doesn't use one of their first round picks for Sanchez. Don't jump on the next QB you can find, Denver. Build the defense up and give the QB a good RB in the draft so that Orton's not being relied upon as much as Cutler was for winning.
 
Manthing, how can you say the chiefs overpaid... you know how long they're going to say "Hey, Matt Cassel, we'll give you $14 million for this season, then you're a free agent."? NOT fuckING LONG. They're probably already (if not already done) working out a new deal for him that's more long term and incentive based. And Scott Pioli was a good evaluator of talent in NE, he'll bring the same type of players to KC -- the only catch is if the hired coach doesn't want to run a similar system to NE.

Again, NE should have gotten someone to overpay for Brady. I'd love to see the deal for him if Cutler is worth 2 1sts and a QB...
 
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im just really surprised that the Jets didnt push hard for him. Im glad too because the Bills are already going to get smashed by the Pats...and if he landed in NY...that means cutler would have smashed Buffalo also.

but yeah its alot in draft picks wise..but if the bears do well next season...that 1st rounder may not be worth much....if the bears have a great season, that a late 1st round pick. so it may not be a bad deal after all. People said the same thing with Eli and the giants giving up so much..basically Merriman and Rivers....but the giants won it all and the chargers are still in mediocrity.

Cutler should do good in chicago. He saved the Broncos everytime and his leads were cut down by a bad defense. He now has a stellar defense and a good RB in Matt Forte. all they need is a reciever and they are set.....unless im missing something...

Edit: i know the Eli Example is bad because its the whole make up of the team.....but the Chargers on paper looked better than alot of teams every year.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']Again, NE should have gotten someone to overpay for Brady. I'd love to see the deal for him if Cutler is worth 2 1sts and a QB...[/quote]
Surely you mean Cassel?
 
[quote name='TruthinessFC']Surely you mean Cassel?[/quote]

No. I don't. Save for potential fanboy backlash, there's no reason not to trade your big name system QB (who's coming off a major injury) for a King's ransom when you have a younger guy with less mileage/wear & tear who proved he can do just as well in the same system. They should've done to Brady what they did to Bledsoe. Simply put, for a first year QB who hadn't started a game since High School, Cassel going 11-5 shows he's just about as good in a system that Brady has been in for what, 6 years as a starter now? A new multi-year incentive based deal with Cassel would be a mere pittance compared to Brady's numbers -- and with the plundering they would've put on another team in a trade for him? Holly sheet. Patriots would probably win 4 of the next 7 Superbowls.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']im just really surprised that the Jets didnt push hard for him. Im glad too because the Bills are already going to get smashed by the Pats...and if he landed in NY...that means cutler would have smashed Buffalo also.
.[/QUOTE]

even if the jets pushed for cutler im not sure they could have matched what the bears gave denver. i mean a solid starter and two first round picks.... im not sure any team could have matched that without sacrificing a lot.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']No. I don't. Save for potential fanboy backlash, there's no reason not to trade your big name system QB (who's coming off a major injury) for a King's ransom when you have a younger guy with less mileage/wear & tear who proved he can do just as well in the same system. They should've done to Brady what they did to Bledsoe. Simply put, for a first year QB who hadn't started a game since High School, Cassel going 11-5 shows he's just about as good in a system that Brady has been in for what, 6 years as a starter now? A new multi-year incentive based deal with Cassel would be a mere pittance compared to Brady's numbers -- and with the plundering they would've put on another team in a trade for him? Holly sheet. Patriots would probably win 4 of the next 7 Superbowls.[/QUOTE]

theres no comparing drew bledsoe to tom brady. not only did brady prove he was better than bledsoe in 2001, but turns out hes one of the best qbs of all time. bledsoe on the other hand had been little more than a solid starter, he went to the pro bowl a few times... hell kerry collins has been to the pro bowl. bledsoe certainly was not an elite qb at the time of his replacement. not only that, but brady is only 31. yeah, hes not a young gun anymore, but hes the best qb in the league...

maybe if he was 37, same age as when montana went to the chiefs, then you might have an argument. in fact, lets go a step further, do you think the 49ers should have traded montana at 31 because steve young was waiting in the wings? well lets see... montana led the 49ers to 2 superbowls in that 6 year span, went to the pro bowl multiple times, super bowl mvp, league mvp, offensive player of the year, essentially establishing himself as the greatest qb of all time...

so yeah, youre nuts to think the pats should have traded brady instead of cassel.
 
[quote name='manthing']*hopes this kills the Bears thread*



Go Buccaneers![/quote]


your a Bucs fan too? Oh brother..
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']theres no comparing drew bledsoe to tom brady. not only did brady prove he was better than bledsoe in 2001, but turns out hes one of the best qbs of all time. bledsoe on the other hand had been little more than a solid starter, he went to the pro bowl a few times... hell kerry collins has been to the pro bowl. bledsoe certainly was not an elite qb at the time of his replacement. not only that, but brady is only 31. yeah, hes not a young gun anymore, but hes the best qb in the league...

maybe if he was 37, same age as when montana went to the chiefs, then you might have an argument. in fact, lets go a step further, do you think the 49ers should have traded montana at 31 because steve young was waiting in the wings? well lets see... montana led the 49ers to 2 superbowls in that 6 year span, went to the pro bowl multiple times, super bowl mvp, league mvp, offensive player of the year, essentially establishing himself as the greatest qb of all time...

so yeah, youre nuts to think the pats should have traded brady instead of cassel.[/quote]

Yeah this ^ although come on Joey was 36 not 37! So he still had plenty gas left in the tank!

In all seriousness though.. why would the Patriots even consider trading Tom Brady for a guy who is probably a one-year wonder for all we know? It makes absolutely no sense. As much as I hate the Patriots.. I think it'd be the most retarded trade in NFL history if they chose to keep Cassel over Brady.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']theres no comparing drew bledsoe to tom brady. not only did brady prove he was better than bledsoe in 2001, but turns out hes one of the best qbs of all time. bledsoe on the other hand had been little more than a solid starter, he went to the pro bowl a few times... hell kerry collins has been to the pro bowl. bledsoe certainly was not an elite qb at the time of his replacement. not only that, but brady is only 31. yeah, hes not a young gun anymore, but hes the best qb in the league...

maybe if he was 37, same age as when montana went to the chiefs, then you might have an argument. in fact, lets go a step further, do you think the 49ers should have traded montana at 31 because steve young was waiting in the wings? well lets see... montana led the 49ers to 2 superbowls in that 6 year span, went to the pro bowl multiple times, super bowl mvp, league mvp, offensive player of the year, essentially establishing himself as the greatest qb of all time...

so yeah, youre nuts to think the pats should have traded brady instead of cassel.[/quote]

Simply put, Brady is an overrated system QB. If the Pats weren't about the system (and 99% of the time, the mantra that one man is not bigger than the team), they couldn't have taken a kid who hasn't really played in a game since he was drafted, who never really played in college, who was 7 years removed from any significant playingtime, and amassed a 11-5 record.

If the 49ers *knew* that they could win and replicate the success of previous years with Steve Young in the wings? Then hell yes. Take the plethora of picks, the salary cap relief of being able to pay the upcoming star a lot less than the aging icon.
 
[quote name='cmart05']Yeah this ^ although come on Joey was 36 not 37! So he still had plenty gas left in the tank!

In all seriousness though.. why would the Patriots even consider trading Tom Brady for a guy who is probably a one-year wonder for all we know? It makes absolutely no sense. As much as I hate the Patriots.. I think it'd be the most retarded trade in NFL history if they chose to keep Cassel over Brady.[/quote]

The Patriots are a machine. Look what they did with Troy Brown. They used him in the roles which he fit and got the most mileage out of him. They took Junior Seau on and look what they got out of him. They lost Deion Branch, David Patten, Adam Vinatieri, etc. and yet they found people to fit the roles, buying into their team and system are bigger than any one player mentallity. And they kept winning. Brady went down in the middle of the first game. The Pats still went 11-5 with Cassel, an absolute NOBODY just like Brady was when he stepped in for Bledsoe, who threw for ~3700 yards, 21 TDs, and completed 63% of his passes throwing only 11 INT. Compare that to Brady's first year as a starter: ~3750 yards, 28 TDs, 14INT with a 62% completion rate. Hmmm... 2-1 TD ratio, 3500+ yards, >60% completion... yeah, it's not the system and Cassel couldn't even hope to put up Brady like numbers. :roll:
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']The Patriots are a machine. Look what they did with Troy Brown. They used him in the roles which he fit and got the most mileage out of him. They took Junior Seau on and look what they got out of him. They lost Deion Branch, David Patten, Adam Vinatieri, etc. and yet they found people to fit the roles, buying into their team and system are bigger than any one player mentallity. And they kept winning. Brady went down in the middle of the first game. The Pats still went 11-5 with Cassel, an absolute NOBODY just like Brady was when he stepped in for Bledsoe, who threw for ~3700 yards, 21 TDs, and completed 63% of his passes throwing only 11 INT. Compare that to Brady's first year as a starter: ~3750 yards, 28 TDs, 14INT with a 62% completion rate. Hmmm... 2-1 TD ratio, 3500+ yards, >60% completion... yeah, it's not the system and Cassel couldn't even hope to put up Brady like numbers. :roll:[/quote]

No one’s saying that the “system” doesn’t play a huge role in Tom Brady being so good but let’s be realists here.

Does Cassel have the season he has if he doesn’t have the team he has in place, probably not? I mean come on Welker and Moss are arguably a top 5 WR duo in the league. The RBs core is solid and so is the offensive line-man. It’s not so much the system it also has a lot to do with the players. I mean yeah Seau was old but come on the guy is a Hall of Famer.

It’s the intangibles that Brady brings to the table is what sets him apart. His ability to thread the needle better than anyone, to move around enough in the pocket to just avoid that sack, to throw that ball into that one spot where his receiver and only his receiver can catch the ball. I mean give the credit to Belichek’s system all you want but there aren’t to many QBs I’d rather have than Brady on my team. The guy is good, having great management helps of course but New England also had one of the easiest schedules last season and which is probably why they went 11-5.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']No. I don't. Save for potential fanboy backlash, there's no reason not to trade your big name system QB (who's coming off a major injury) for a King's ransom when you have a younger guy with less mileage/wear & tear who proved he can do just as well in the same system. They should've done to Brady what they did to Bledsoe. Simply put, for a first year QB who hadn't started a game since High School, Cassel going 11-5 shows he's just about as good in a system that Brady has been in for what, 6 years as a starter now? A new multi-year incentive based deal with Cassel would be a mere pittance compared to Brady's numbers -- and with the plundering they would've put on another team in a trade for him? Holly sheet. Patriots would probably win 4 of the next 7 Superbowls.[/quote]
Oh boy... the Brady = system QB argument:wall:

Let's go with the assumption that Brady is nothing more than a system QB, how do the Patriots know Cassel can perform as well or better over several seasons? They don't, so Brady is more of a sure thing at this point. Cutting/trading Brady would likely cost the Pats a lot ($12-14 million?) in dead cap money, so that's not really an option for a team that needs to find money for guys like Wilfork and Seymour in the next year or two. If the system is such a large factor as you make it out to be, why not get rid of both Brady and Cassel and just play Gutierrez, O'Connell, or maybe Testaverde is still available... Hell, if Jim Sorgi went and won 12 games for the Colts while Peyton was down, would we see as many people wanting the Colts to dumb Peyton in favor of Sorgi? I sincerely doubt that. A well run system is a wonderful thing, but an elite QB can take that system, and entire team much further.

As should be obvious, Brady >>>> Bledsoe. I loved Bledsoe when I started watching football at first, but he wasn't as elite as Brady(top 2 in the league). Brady won a Superbowl after replacing an older QB in Bledsoe, and showed the ability to make all the throws and have some pocket awareness. Drew was always a statue back there. To relate this to Cassel v Brady, Cassel did not win a Superbowl, and his pocket awareness is still laughable despite more mobility than Bledsoe.

Cassel going 11-5 shows the offensive system is very good, talent on the team is even better, and McDaniels & Belichick prepared Matt very well over 3 seasons for this past year. No offense, but anyone who watches Patriots games closely can see the differences between Cassel and Brady. There are many, not limited to but including Moss' respect level, Matt trying to set a league record for sacks taken despite one of the better o-lines the Patriots have fielded, and deep passing accuracy. 4 years from now(or whenever Brady really becomes over the hill...) it's quite possible Cassel will be better, but the Patriots may not be able to wait that long and keep the same(or better) level of talent on the team. So again, the best bet to try to win Superbowls immediately is Brady, being good at the QB spot 4/5 years from now is secondary to that.

[quote name='corrosivefrost']The Patriots are a machine. Look what they did with Troy Brown. They used him in the roles which he fit and got the most mileage out of him. They took Junior Seau on and look what they got out of him. They lost Deion Branch, David Patten, Adam Vinatieri, etc. and yet they found people to fit the roles, buying into their team and system are bigger than any one player mentallity. And they kept winning. Brady went down in the middle of the first game. The Pats still went 11-5 with Cassel, an absolute NOBODY just like Brady was when he stepped in for Bledsoe, who threw for ~3700 yards, 21 TDs, and completed 63% of his passes throwing only 11 INT. Compare that to Brady's first year as a starter: ~3750 yards, 28 TDs, 14INT with a 62% completion rate. Hmmm... 2-1 TD ratio, 3500+ yards, >60% completion... yeah, it's not the system and Cassel couldn't even hope to put up Brady like numbers. :roll:[/quote]
Troy Brown did great things playing offense, special teams, and corner but you're kidding yourself if you think they could have those results with any receiver. Troy was a very agile receiver for most of his career and set a few franchise records including 1st in receptions, 2nd in receiving yards, best punt returner. He was hardly some practice squad slouch, not just another guy they could "plug in".

Vinatieri was getting older and was going to get more money than the Patriots deemed he was worth on the FA market, as he did from the Colts. Gostkowski is more or less just as good so far, but has not had the chances to prove himself in the playoffs like Adam. On the other hand, Gostkowski's kickoffs are longer and more consistent, which was becoming a problem for Adam in outdoor stadiums especially. It's no coincidence he went to play for a dome team.

I really hope you aren't comparing first season numbers for both QBs... Those offensive teams are night and day talent wise. Daunte Culpepper was a pretty good QB too when he had two great receivers to play with, would you want him on your team since he has been exposed? If Cassel can play a whole season with average(or worse) receivers, and a poor running game, then he will be more comparable. Until then, Brady has done more with less, and had a ridiculous MVP season with the current team.

I love what Matt managed to accomplish this past season, and hope he continues to have success and becomes a better player. But one season on one of the most talented teams in the league does not outweigh Brady's resume and short term potential.
 
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I am not jumping on that.

Once again another off season is coming and going without the fucking Lions doing a damn thing. I am still fairly sure my Titans will do well next year but the Lions? Come on.....pick up someone who isnt a 3rd stringer from another team why dont you.

Also DO NOT WASTE THE FIRST PICK ON A QB! There will always be future great QBs and you can easily hide a bad QB if you get them into the right system. But you cant do crap if you do no build your lines up on both sides of the ball as well as your secondary on defense.
 
Still can't believe Torry Holt is a FA.....

Dear McClueless and Singleshit;

Sign Holt.

Thanks,
Go fuck yourselves.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Still can't believe Torry Holt is a FA.....

Dear McClueless and Singleshit;

Sign Holt.

Thanks,
Go fuck yourselves.[/quote]

:lol:

Edit:
:shock:

in a surprising MOve the G-men have Cut Plax amid his legal troubles.

Well looks like they will either draft Kenny Britt from Rutgers or now go after Edwards or Boldin which both definitley could be acquired.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4040009
 
good move for the raiders. garcia is a nice steady vet and should help russel. plus it should motivate russel knowing that the guy behind him could take his job at any moment.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Still can't believe Torry Holt is a FA.....

Dear McClueless and Singleshit;

Sign Holt.

Thanks,
Go fuck yourselves.[/QUOTE]

Holt and Bruce reunion would be nice!
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']good move for the raiders. garcia is a nice steady vet and should help russel. plus it should motivate russel knowing that the guy behind him could take his job at any moment.[/quote]

Tim Kawakami (local Bay Area beat writer) pointed out an amazing thing...

Replace Russel's mentality with Garcia and you might have the greatest quarterback known to man...
 
The full schedule is out. Glad I'm getting DirectTV soon because the Niners got an NFL network game.

Also once again the NFL can eat a dick with the cowboys playing 6 primetime games.
 
[quote name='DT778']The full schedule is out. Glad I'm getting DirectTV soon because the Niners got an NFL network game.

Also once again the NFL can eat a dick with the cowboys playing 6 primetime games.[/QUOTE]

yeah, i upgrade my cable package for 2 months out of the year once the thursday night games start. im not big on the nfl network stealing those games.

i hear that when the current sunday ticket/direct tv contract ends its going non-exclusive. i sure hope so because i hate direct tv.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Why is the draft not starting at noon like every year? Are they doing just two rounds today and the other five tomorrow?
[/quote]



was wondering the same thing. Lost track of time, saw it was after 12 and ran to my pc only to be disappointed. Maybe trying to give some West coast love?
 
Wikipedia's saying it's just two rounds today and five rounds tomorrow, so I guess that's why it's not starting until 4 PM.

If you're interested in streaming the draft, EA Sports is doing their own show and will have Shannon Sharpe as a co-host. They're doing the same thing on the NFL Draft site here.
 
thanks for the links. The Pats aren't expected to draft until around 630 but with rumors of them trying to move up to the top 10, gonna have to keep an eye out during the first hour or so.
 
[quote name='TC']"The Detroit Lions Select......". With those words a once promising career will be turned to shit.[/quote]
Didn't they already make their pick of who they're dooming this year?

I've been looking over mock drafts and they seem to be all over the place, like most of the top teams don't really have one or two key positions to fill and there isn't really a top guy at most positions. I've seen Marc Sanchez go to Seattle at #4 all the way down to Denver at #18, Chris Wells at #14 to New Orleans and as low as Arizona at #31, and Darrius Heyward-Bey from #7 to Oakland or as low as #28 to Baltimore.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Didn't they already make their pick of who they're dooming this year?[/QUOTE]

Yes, and I guarantee they'll still take the full 10 minutes.
 
Yeah, the Lions already signed their draft pick to a 6-year 41 million dollar contract.

Hopefully the Vikings trade some picks for Anquan Boldin and grab Ebon Britton in the first round.
 
fucking idiot Lions. Be smarter for once in your pathetic franchise history. There is no way in hell you should have picked Matt Stafford.

You should have picked Curry who committed to taking less money beacuse he wanted to play for the Lions. Not only that you need people at so many different positions that just drafting a QB and throwing him in there means nothing.

David Carr has proved that even the best of college QB cant throw a pass laying on their god damn backs. It also means that you can have the greatest QB in the world but when your defense is dead last in every fucking stat across the board it means nothing.

You have Culpepper who isnt in his prime but the Bears proved that you dont need a superstar QB, you just need one that wont screw up to be successful. They also proved that defense is what matters most. And to be honest...every year there is a franchise QB in the draft and you will most likely get top 5 pick next year anyway.

Given that, you sign the 1# pick yesterday therefor making it impossible for anyone to make a blockbuster deal with you for the first pick for a non mobile big armed (which is a dime a dozen in the NFL) QB when you dont have a single thing in place to help him.

You build outward from the trenches.....secure your OL, DL, LB, first then get skill positions.
 
Chiefs pick Tyson Jackson, DE from LSU.

Edit 1: Seattle just picked Aaron Curry, OLB from Wake Forest. Browns are up now.

Edit 2: I missed the trade, but apparently the Jets traded up with Cleveland and are set to take Mark Sanchez. It's chaos in the draft crowd right now.

Edit 3: Browns get the 17th pick, the Jets' 2nd round pick, and a bunch of no name players for the #5 pick.
 
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I missed the trade, but apparently the Jets traded up with Cleveland and are set to take Mark Sanchez. It's chaos in the draft crowd right now.
 
Heyward-Bey seems like the typical flashy Raiders receiver that won't pan out to be the #1 receiver they want.

Edit 1: Crabtree goes to San Francisco, so he won't be too far away from the Raiders to show them what they missed out on.
 
How Denver didn't picking defense with the 12th pick, I'll never know. But at least we should have a solid back for the first time in a few years.

Edit: Washington knew what they wanted and hurried up with the pick of Orakpo, who Denver should've picked.
 
i liked when the female announcer on ESPN said... "when the raiders didn't take crabtree, one of the people at his table went "WHEEWWW" when the raiders didn't pick him.

my packers hopefully took one of the next big Nose tackles in the league...
 
And the Browns seem to be happy to trade down and collect more picks as they've traded down with Tampa Bay.

Edit: And they take Josh Freeman with that pick, so add another QB to that carousel in TB.
 
And Cleveland traded down to the 21st pick with Philly, so that's the third time they've traded down in two hours.

Edit: And they take Maclin with that pick, so they're building up a nice WR core over there.

Edit 2: Cleveland finally makes a pick and it's Alex Mack, Center from Cal. Not a bad pick since they could use all of the OL help they can get with that poor running game that they had last year.
 
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