The beauty of capitalism in pictures.

"Producers will just go to countries where it is cheaper to produce." -paraphrasing Capitalizt

The market will sort it out. Externality regulations are for socialists.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

Guiyu, Guangdong province, (广东省贵屿镇) rivers and reservoirs have been contaminated, the villager is washing in a seriously polluted pond. November 25, 2005

Click to expand...

Large amount of the industrial wastewater flowed to Yellow River from Inner Mongolia Lasengmiao Industrial District (内蒙古拉僧庙工业园区) every day. July 26, 2005

Click to expand...

Anhui Province Cihu Chemical Industry District (安徽省慈湖化工园区) built a underground pipe to discharge wastewater into the Yangtze River. The wastewater sometimes is black, gray, dark red, or yellow, wastewater from different chemical factories has different colors. June 18, 2009

Click to expand...

“In Some areas of China people’s lives were threatened because of the environmental pollution. Residents suffering from all kinds of obscured diseases, the cancer villages, increase of deformed babies, these were the results of sacrificing environment and blindly seeking economical gain.”

Click to expand...

Elder shepherd by the Yellow River cannot stand the smell. April 23, 2006

Click to expand...

15-year-old boy from Tianshui, Gansu Province (甘肃天水), dropped out of the school after 2nd grade, followed his parents to Heilonggui (黑龙贵) Industrial District. He earns 16 yuan a day. April 8, 2005

Click to expand...

In Shexian Village, Hebei Province, (河北省涉县固新村) the existing cancer patients are more than 50 people and more than 20 cancer patients die each year. March 18, 2008

Click to expand...

In Ma’anshan, Anhui province (安徽马鞍山), along the Yangtze River there are many small-scaled Iron selection factories and plastic processing plants. Large amounts of sewage discharged into the Yangtze River June 18, 2009

Click to expand...

I left out most of the pictures of children dying of cancer. Wouldn't want to be accused of making an emotional appeal.

Then you're just showing pollution pictures, so it's an environmental emotional appeal!

The solution is obviously for American workers to work for $5 a week with no benefits in order to compete.

I do wonder, once China cleans up it's act and starts cracking down on pollution, where will our cheap crap be produced then? Since another reason it's cheap to produce in China is that there are fewer environmental regulations, once that changes it won't be as cheap anymore.

Nice job showing pictures of communist china!

[quote name='JolietJake']I do wonder, once China cleans up it's act and starts cracking down on pollution, where will our cheap crap be produced then? Since another reason it's cheap to produce in China is that there are fewer environmental regulations, once that changes it won't be as cheap anymore.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of other poor countries to move to where a company can pay the workers almost nothing and defend it by saying how poor they are otherwise. I don't see their governments letting environmental regulations get in the way. Once they actually get some money to improve their economy and it gets more expensive to pay them, then the company can move on to the next. They'll have made the original countries poor again by the time they run through them all.

[quote name='JolietJake']I do wonder, once China cleans up it's act and starts cracking down on pollution, where will our cheap crap be produced then? Since another reason it's cheap to produce in China is that there are fewer environmental regulations, once that changes it won't be as cheap anymore.[/QUOTE]

I think they would just keep moving from hellhole to hellhole, next stop Haiti.

Presumably then some other countries will collapse/be made into something more to their liking.

[quote name='perdition(troy']Nice job showing pictures of communist china![/QUOTE]
What current policy of theirs makes them communist? Them factories aren't instruments of the state, comrade.

Yeah that's what i'm asking, where next.

wait, this isn't a peta thread?

[quote name='perdition(troy']Nice job showing pictures of communist china![/QUOTE]

Bingo!

Attack capitalism while all the pictures that are shown are occuring in a communist country. Seems to me the problem isn't with capitalism but rather with China's struggle to make communism work that they'll just let anything fly to get the rest of the world's money.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Bingo!

Attack capitalism while all the pictures that are shown are occurring in a communist country. Seems to me the problem isn't with capitalism but rather with China's struggle to make communism work that they'll just let anything fly to get the rest of the world's money.[/QUOTE]

The fail is strong with this one.

China has a market economy.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Seems to me the problem isn't with capitalism but rather with China's struggle to make communism work that they'll just let anything fly to get the rest of the world's money.[/QUOTE]

But that's.....that's capitalism.

Any idiot can tell you that capitalism is more profitable than communism (even if it worked somehow). But to want the profit would be capitalism.

[quote name='SpazX'] But to want the profit would be capitalism.[/QUOTE]

To want the profit would be human.

[quote name='Msut77']I think they would just keep moving from hellhole to hellhole, next stop Haiti.[/QUOTE]

Outstanding. My 3000 mile caesar salad just became a 500 mile one.

You guys are right, communism has never led to suffering. Mao, Stalin, Lenin were all just misunderstood in paving the way for communism. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs huh?

Oh, and you're going to tell me that none of the products made in China go to anywhere but Capitalist countries? Can't find any Made in China stickers in Canade eh?

Oh, and you're going to tell me that none of the products made in China go to anywhere but Capitalist countries? Can't find any Made in China stickers in Canade eh?

Oh I get it. Obama is evil and a communist.

Siiighs

[quote name='lilboo']Oh I get it. Obama is evil and a communist.

Siiighs[/QUOTE]

Uh, no one's mentioned Obama.

[quote name='perdition(troy']To want the profit would be human.[/QUOTE]

And equating a fabricated economic system to the very essence of humanity is both capitalist and communist.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']You guys are right, communism has never led to suffering. Mao, Stalin, Lenin were all just misunderstood in paving the way for communism. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs huh?[/QUOTE]

Nobody said that, we're saying companies moving in to poorer countries to exploit their cheaper labor and lax environmental regulations isn't communism.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Oh, and you're going to tell me that none of the products made in China go to anywhere but Capitalist countries? Can't find any Made in China stickers in Canade eh?[/QUOTE]

But Canada is a capitalist country! And the companies selling the products made in China are capitalists!

*Head asplode*

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Oh, and you're going to tell me that none of the products made in China go to anywhere but Capitalist countries? Can't find any Made in China stickers in Canade eh?[/QUOTE]
I think you're trying a bit too hard. I think the general idea is that the mode of production that encourages this kind of behavior is capitalistic. Capital minded companies have fled western countries because of regulation and labor costs. Free marketeers (like Capitalizt) cheer them on and berate western countries because of these market based ideals: the cheapest possible costs, the lowest regulation barriers, and the largest profit margin. China's conversion to a capital market based production mode has been a perfect place to implement capital projects.

But we like to pretend there are no externalities. Capitalists will say that the market will sort them out, punishing those that act irresponsibly, but that's obviously not the case else they wouldn't do it, right? The nuance of the argument doesn't really do justice to the reality of the argument.

As a human being, at some point you have to say that shit ain't right. Is that hard to do?

[quote name='SpazX']
But Canada is a capitalist country! And the companies selling the products made in China are capitalists!

*Head asplode*[/QUOTE]

Canada is much closer to Socialism than Capitalism.

[quote name='speedracer']I think you're trying a bit too hard. I think the general idea is that the mode of production that encourages this kind of behavior is capitalistic. Capital minded companies have fled western countries because of regulation and labor costs. Free marketeers (like Capitalizt) cheer them on and berate western countries because of these market based ideals: the cheapest possible costs, the lowest regulation barriers, and the largest profit margin. China's conversion to a capital market based production mode has been a perfect place to implement capital projects.

But we like to pretend there are no externalities. Capitalists will say that the market will sort them out, punishing those that act irresponsibly, but that's obviously not the case else they wouldn't do it, right? The nuance of the argument doesn't really do justice to the reality of the argument.

As a human being, at some point you have to say that shit ain't right. Is that hard to do?[/QUOTE]

First off, thank you for a well-reasoned argument free from ad hominem attacks.

What my argument boils down to is that yes the things depicted in the pictures you posted are tragic. No good human being truly wants to see other people suffer. My point though is that shouldn't we be blaming China for allowing this crap to go on and not regulating it rather than blaming Capitalism for seeking out cheaper products?

I mean it would be one thing if we were talking about a defenseless population with no means to defend themselves but we're talking about a country that is quickly becoming the most powerful country in the world. If they didn't want this type of crap to go on, which they shouldn't, why don't they regulate it right out.

Indian ship-breaking yard. Asbestos, lead paint, toxic fumes - you name it they've got it. All for very capitalist exchange of a few rupees per day.

So stop trying to defend free-market capitalism by attacking China. Yeah China is screwed up but let's debate the issue noted by the OP.

Nice pictures.

Remember this is what thrust, cap, Bob et. al and many hard core cons want for America.

edit: whoops. edited the wrong one. Pretend this says something about how the situation sucks.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Canada is much closer to Socialism than Capitalism.[/QUOTE]

They have implemented more socialist policies than the US, that's for sure, but I'm not sure how to quantify it to say that they're "more socialist than capitalist."

If >50% of their economy is controlled by the government?

[quote name='RedvsBlue']What my argument boils down to is that yes the things depicted in the pictures you posted are tragic. No good human being truly wants to see other people suffer. My point though is that shouldn't we be blaming China for allowing this crap to go on and not regulating it rather than blaming Capitalism for seeking out cheaper products?

I mean it would be one thing if we were talking about a defenseless population with no means to defend themselves but we're talking about a country that is quickly becoming the most powerful country in the world. If they didn't want this type of crap to go on, which they shouldn't, why don't they regulate it right out.[/QUOTE]

Is that not socialist/anti-capitalist? Republicans/free-marketers constantly rail against regulation because it's bad for industry since they make less money. You're saying not to blame capitalism for these problems, but rather to create anti-capitalist regulations. So blame China for being too open to capitalism.

So speedracer, what's your proposed fix? Keep heavy regulations going and also prevent company's from outsourcing?

[quote name='speedracer']My answer would be to require companies that want to sell goods in America to be held to the standard the American regulators have in place here regarding environmental and labor controls.[/QUOTE]
So, we can't be the world police in military matters but should dictate how other countries regulate their workplace?

[quote name='JolietJake']I do wonder, once China cleans up it's act and starts cracking down on pollution, where will our cheap crap be produced then? Since another reason it's cheap to produce in China is that there are fewer environmental regulations, once that changes it won't be as cheap anymore.[/QUOTE]
China won't do any such thing. That wold be suicide for them.

[quote name='camoor']Indian ship-breaking yard. Asbestos, lead paint, toxic fumes - you name it they've got it. All for very capitalist exchange of a few rupees per day.

So stop trying to defend free-market capitalism by attacking China. Yeah China is screwed up but let's debate the issue noted by the OP.

[/QUOTE]


I don't understand this train of logic.

China (and other countries) choose to react and incant the way they do to outside forces. Capitalist countries don't force them to do anything.

This logic is exactly the same as the guy that punches his wife all the time and the blame goes to his boss for treating him shitty. He had no choice but to punch his wife because his boss is an asshole, right? So we should figure out how to make bosses not be such assholes, or get rid of bosses all together so that wives around the world can have happier lives...

[quote name='perdition(troy']So, we can't be the world police in military matters but should dictate how other countries regulate their workplace?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that we shouldn't allow companies to sell in the American marketplace if their production can't meet a minimum requirement. You know, like using child labor or poisoning the holy shit out of the local environment. Reasonable people can disagree on whether this smoke stack or that one is bad and how bad, but those pictures are irrefutably, absurdly bad dude. Let me answer your question with a question. Do you believe companies that pollute that badly deserve access to the American market?

[quote name='thrustbucket']So speedracer, what's your proposed fix? Keep heavy regulations going and also prevent company's from outsourcing?[/QUOTE]
[quote name='speedracer']My answer would be to require companies that want to sell goods in America to be held to the standard the American regulators have in place here regarding environmental and labor controls.[/quote]
I think my idea is a reasonable one. What's your proposed fix?

[quote name='thrustbucket']This logic is exactly the same as the guy that punches his wife all the time and the blame goes to his boss for treating him shitty. He had no choice but to punch his wife because his boss is an asshole, right? So we should figure out how to make bosses not be such assholes, or get rid of bosses all together so that wives around the world can have happier lives...[/QUOTE]
I think a more reasonable analogy would be if we were buying his wife's teeth.

[quote name='thrustbucket']China won't do any such thing. That wold be suicide for them.




I don't understand this train of logic.

China (and other countries) choose to react and incant the way they do to outside forces. Capitalist countries don't force them to do anything.

This logic is exactly the same as the guy that punches his wife all the time and the blame goes to his boss for treating him shitty. He had no choice but to punch his wife because his boss is an asshole, right? So we should figure out how to make his bosses not be such assholes, so that wives around the world can have happier lives...[/QUOTE]

Free-market capitalism invariably leads to what is seen in the posted pictures. Trying to put all of the blame on one player in the long chain of exploiters and exploited is a fool's game - when we can post real-life pictures of industrial pollution that look worse then the set of Terminator 4 it does no good trying to distract from the central issue that something is very wrong with the way the world currently does business.

People don't like business regulations but I would be willing to bet they would like living without them even less. It's almost as if America and the other industrialized nations at the top of the food chain are becoming big Potemkin villages designed to mask the suffering and hardship of the world's poor (not to mention the enviornmental impact).

[quote name='speedracer']
I think my idea is a reasonable one. What's your proposed fix?[/quote]
I think your idea is fine, just a bit too idealist. In other words, it sounds great in theory but I think it would be incredibly expensive to TRY to enforce yet probably would be met with little success, not to mention create yet another layer of corruption in government.

I personally don't have a real solution. I have a lot of smaller ideas that would go towards preventing what your pictures show, but I don't blame capitalism as a root cause, I believe capitalism is a symptom of greed and greed is a root cause. Capitalism is just a managed form of greed.

Historically, there are only really two ways of dealing with the unstoppable force of human greed: Draconian control and fascist penalties, or do your best to manage it. I'm starting to feel like you and Camoor believe in the former (that's not meant as an insult).

[quote name='camoor']Free-market capitalism Greed invariably leads to what is seen in the posted pictures. Trying to put all of the blame on one player in the long chain of exploiters and exploited is a fool's game - when we can post real-life pictures of industrial pollution that look worse then the set of Terminator 4 it does no good trying to distract from the central issue that something is very wrong with the way the world currently does business.[/quote]
Fixed so I can agree with that paragraph.
I believe it's a foolish to believe a form of government is the cause of such things. What you are really railing against is greed; which inevitably becomes the puppet master of any form of government.

It's fine to point out problems and try to make them better, but it's important to understand that new forms of government or drastically new controlling measures are not really the solution, that's just stirring the shit, not getting rid of it.

When you really whittle away all the fat of this issue and get to it's core - greed, it's then easier to understand the magnitude of the problem better, and the difficulty of solving it better.

People don't like business regulations but I would be willing to bet they would like living without them even less. It's almost as if America and the other industrialized nations at the top of the food chain are becoming big Potemkin villages designed to mask the suffering and hardship of the world's poor (not to mention the enviornmental impact).

Click to expand...

Have you ever seen a movie called Zeitgeist or Zeitgeist addendum? You can watch them free on the net. You sound like someone that has seen them, if you haven't I'd be curious what you thought of them.

[quote name='thrustbucket']I think your idea is fine, just a bit too idealist. In other words, it sounds great in theory but I think it would be incredibly expensive to TRY to enforce yet probably would be met with little success, not to mention create yet another layer of corruption in government.

I personally don't have a real solution. I have a lot of smaller ideas that would go towards preventing what your pictures show, but I don't blame capitalism as a root cause, I believe capitalism is a symptom of greed and greed is a root cause. Capitalism is just a managed form of greed.[/quote]
Capital is an amazing way to harness greed to maximum production. It's also an amazingly effective at rewarding the infliction of human misery. You just can't have one without the other. If we could, if there was a way for the market to reward that good behavior, it would have happened by now. But it's not going to happen and firms will continue this because it's profitable. And that's just the way it is. An overwhelming body of evidence supports it.

Historically, there are only really two ways of dealing with the unstoppable force of human greed: Draconian control and fascist penalties, or do your best to manage it. I'm starting to feel like you and Camoor believe in the former (that's not meant as an insult).

Click to expand...

Perhaps if we as a political entity, in this together, agreed on basic principles of those that would bind us. Rather than the bullshit goal posts of capitalism and communism, we could find metrics that mesh with our national character. Freedom, a strong tradition of production and innovation, empathy for the little guy, entrepreneurship, an environmental trust for the future, shit like that. Then look at the things that will satisfy the most requirements.

The really bullshit part of this is that while I think we enjoy being douches to each other (at least I enjoy it because I'm a douche), I bet we could settle 90% of our problems over a six pack and a couple of Padrons. We would probably end up with strong regulation to curtail the really god awful shit like we see in the pictures, but also completely free trade without tariff. I'd demand nationalized health care and offer up the Fed for you to slaughter. Throw in FoC and we could probably end world hunger as well.

The REALLY bullshit part is at the end of the negotiation we'd probably end up with a cradle to grave social net, a completely free market (outside of a don't be ing evil regulation system), and could still probably cut taxes by 25% just as a start.

Or maybe I'm just delusional. Who knows.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Canada is much closer to Socialism than Capitalism.[/QUOTE]
I guffaw in your general direction, comrade.

[quote name='speedracer']
The really bullshit part of this is that while I think we enjoy being douches to each other (at least I enjoy it because I'm a douche), I bet we could settle 90% of our problems over a six pack and a couple of Padrons. We would probably end up with strong regulation to curtail the really god awful shit like we see in the pictures, but also completely free trade without tariff. I'd demand nationalized health care and offer up the Fed for you to slaughter. Throw in FoC and we could probably end world hunger as well.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think it's really silly to think that it's so black and white. Either free market capitalism or a system of draconian control and facism.

There are nearly infinite possibilities for how to set up a system. I think most everyone, if they put their mindless ideologies aside for a bit, would agree the best system would be one that leaves markets as free as possible, taxes as low as possible, while preventing the exploitation shown in this thread, and keeping poverty rates as low as possible, life expectancy and good health as high as possible etc.

Just a matter of finding the right combination of regulations on business (the fewest and least restrictive to get the job done) and balancing social programming without giving disincentive to work through handouts and high taxes.

Not an easy task, but it could be done if partisanship didn't make it so damn hard to change anything and try new things.

Compromise is for leftist pansies.

Not for the eyes of everyone. If you're easily upset, don't click this button:

They'll have to eventually thrust, unless history is to be completely ignored.

[quote name='thrustbucket']
I personally don't have a real solution. I have a lot of smaller ideas that would go towards preventing what your pictures show, but I don't blame capitalism as a root cause, I believe capitalism is a symptom of greed and greed is a root cause. Capitalism is just a managed form of greed.

Historically, there are only really two ways of dealing with the unstoppable force of human greed: Draconian control and fascist penalties, or do your best to manage it. I'm starting to feel like you and Camoor believe in the former (that's not meant as an insult).

Fixed so I can agree with that paragraph.
I believe it's a foolish to believe a form of government is the cause of such things. What you are really railing against is greed; which inevitably becomes the puppet master of any form of government.

It's fine to point out problems and try to make them better, but it's important to understand that new forms of government or drastically new controlling measures are not really the solution, that's just stirring the shit, not getting rid of it.

When you really whittle away all the fat of this issue and get to it's core - greed, it's then easier to understand the magnitude of the problem better, and the difficulty of solving it better.


[/QUOTE]

Good post, although we often disagree, I found myself nodding while reading this. I don't think managing greed (as you put it) is a black and white situation though, I think there are plenty of options in between.

There's misery everywhere. I think the first thing you do-gooders should do is get rid of all of these spoils of capitalism so you can justify your self-righteousness.

















From the company that creates an idea and pays a wage, to the machine that mined the minerals, to the advertiser who hired the artist, and the TV show that sold it to you, your life is surrounded by people who have profited from your choices to buy their things. None of it was done from the goodness of their hearts - it was done for profit. Remember to thank them next Thursday no matter how much you hate them. Undoubtedly, your life has depended on their exploitation of you.

Oh, yeah, I forgot this one you spoiled little brats.
No capitalism?
No problem.
No this:




Now, don't cry. Your sacrifice is for a good cause. Remember, you're doing your part to save the planet. Once you achieve that, Xboxes will start springing up from holes in the ground to reward you spontaneously.

No likey the reading.

No one said that all forms of capitalism are completely bad, Mulligan. Just because you perceive the world as black and white doesn't me that everyone implicitly sees it that way too. This discussion is about the product of a complete or nearly complete unregulated free market.

Also if you don't like the government meddling in your life:

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

I like this one the best:

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

Click to expand...

How many family farms have been destroyed because the family couldn't afford the taxes...

[quote name='UncleBob']I like this one the best:



How many family farms have been destroyed because the family couldn't afford the taxes...[/QUOTE]


What are some of your other favorite ones?

[quote name='UncleBob']How many family farms have been destroyed because the family couldn't afford the taxes...[/QUOTE]

This some blather about the estate tax? Because last I checked that number was at zero.

I know! Or at least due to estate taxes
(i) In April of 2001, the New York Times reported that the American Farm Bureau
could not cite a single case where a family farm was lost due to the estate tax; (ii) In 1998, only
1.4% of all taxable estates in the country had farm-related assets that accounted for 50% or more
of total estate value; and (iii) Due to the number and value of exemptions allowed, a couple in
Illinois can have farm assets worth up to $4.2 million and still not have to pay any estate taxes.

[quote name='gareman']I know! Or at least due to estate taxes
(i) In April of 2001, the New York Times reported that the American Farm Bureau
could not cite a single case where a family farm was lost due to the estate tax; (ii) In 1998, only
1.4% of all taxable estates in the country had farm-related assets that accounted for 50% or more
of total estate value; and (iii) Due to the number and value of exemptions allowed, a couple in
Illinois can have farm assets worth up to $4.2 million and still not have to pay any estate taxes.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... interesting. I wasn't aware that property taxes had been repealed all over the US.

In regards to the estate tax - thankfully, family farmers can get special loans from the government that help pay their taxes. So, basically, the family farmers get to end up working for the government for a few years...

Why equate capitalism with government corruption that allows some people to screw over others? In China, as illustrated by your pictures, the corrupt government does this as a matter of policy: those who can make money for the government are given license to destroy what is communal property (air, rivers). Letting one party destroy an asset partially owned by others with no recompense is a result of corrupt and oppressive government, not capitalism. Unfortunately, we have seen at times that the two have gone together, but if you look at the history of industry in Eastern Europe during the Cold War you'll see that it's not a hard and fast rule.