Eye for an Eye

Now this is an ethics debate in which I've already formed an opinion. Recently I found an ad on craigslist with someone looking to trade a PS3 Slim for an older model PS3 so he could run Linux. The only PS3 I physically had in my possession was a dead-laser 60GB but there are 40s and 80s all over craigslist in my area for cheap that I could buy and then use as the tradebait. For shits and giggles, I tell him I have a 60GB since I don't know what I'd actually end up with as tradebait.

Well as the discussions get going, these are his demands.
* The console must have been built-in wifi (No big deal)
* $70 to upgrade the hard drive
* We keep our own controllers (I have a sixaxis and he has a DS3)

So in the end the trade would be,
Him: 60GB PS3 ($350-ish used), Dualshock 3 ($30-ish used), $70 cash
Me: 120GB Slim PS3 ($275-ish used), Sixaxis ($20-ish used)

While I don't think it's his intent, I'd end up majorly boned from this and now he's gung ho all of a sudden. I told my friend I was just considering giving him my busted 60GB since even if he had to pay fix it, it would come out even. My friend said that he even if he was trying to screw me, I should just back out. Eye for an eye and we'd all be blind, etc.

My question: If someone is trying to or does screw you, why is it ok for them to walk away unscathed? In another instance, I put up an XBox 360 lot for sale and someone offered me a modded PSP 1000 for trade. When I asked what else they had to offer, they said, "It plays all kinds of games so I'd be losing out."

What are your thoughts on revenge from a personal perspective and from a bystander perspective?

I'm confused about your desire for "revenge" -- what did he really do to you? He offered you what you feel is a bad trade (in your opinion -- it may be perfectly fair in his, and you even state that you don't think that it's his intent to screw you). If you don't like it and he won't negotiate to a deal you find acceptable, just walk away. It's not like you lose anything in doing so. If you knowingly and intentionally screw him by giving him a broken console (without at least telling him it's broken and giving him the chance to pass), you are the only asshole in the deal.

If anything, you're already the jerk for having offered up the broken 60gb "for shits and giggles" without giving him full info.

To be fair, that would sound like a pretty bad deal to me too if the console was working (which presumably he is assuming it is), and I wouldn't take it in that case. But I also certainly wouldn't take it being offered as an excuse for "revenge" either.

Yeah, I don't get it. He hasn't even done anything to you. If you think it's a bad trade then don't trade.

sounds like you just want to scam some guy you don't know.

classy.

You're not going to get too many different opinions here. You are the one trying to screw him, not the other way around.

eh i'd do it only if you could get away with never seeing him again

I thought I had written that I just dropped the deal but I guess I didn't. Basically the only two options were:

1.) If the 60GB PS3 did work, I would lose out big
2.) If I went and did the deal, I'd be a douche

This scenario doesn't work too well because I don't think he's an actual gamer rather than just a general tech nerd so he doesn't understand values and all that. I wanted to get everyone's take on the dynamics of the situation *if* he really did take me for a n00b and wanted to hose me. Of course it's better to drop a deal if you think you're getting screwed or you're knowingly screwing someone else back, but what about those times when you don't know?

Would it be wrong if a scammer eventually got scammed? Does he have a right to justice even though he's gotten away with pooping on others?

As you can see from my avatar, I've lost my right eye.

if ya know it is broken and don't reveal it to him, you sir, are a dick. He is being up front and you are the one mis leading

[quote name='Maklershed']As you can see from my avatar, I've lost my right eye.[/QUOTE]
I think BlindPete still has one up one you.

[quote name='davo1224']

1.) If the 60GB PS3 did work, I would lose out big
2.) If I went and did the deal, I'd be a douche


Would it be wrong if a scammer eventually got scammed? Does he have a right to justice even though he's gotten away with pooping on others?[/QUOTE]

i still dont get it. i read option option 1 as the deal you told him youd do (in which youd be paying more money) and option 2 as the deal where you scam him. why would you even offer.

it's not really eye for an eye so much as you simply being a douche

[quote name='davo1224']Would it be wrong if a scammer eventually got scammed?[/QUOTE]

Part of the problem here is that it's not entirely clear that either of your examples are actually "scammers".

Look at it from the PS3 guy's point of view -- you say that you don't think he's a gamer, and his main interest is running Linux. Assuming that's the case, backward compatibility (the one thing that the 60gb really has going for it, and what gives it such a high value) probably means nothing to him. As far as he's concerned, he's trading you his nearly new machine for one that is several years old. Even assuming that it's fully working, the 60gb is going to have wear and tear on it, it's got a smaller hard drive, and it's not the "new" model. He doesn't care about the "market value" of the BC model, if that's not what he's looking for in it (and it sounds like all he wants is a Fat that can run Linux, and doesn't care beyond that). If he even knows about it, then more than likely as far as he's concerned if you're willing to make the trade, you probably don't care about it any more than he does.

As far as the 360 trade goes, you don't provide enough information there to really make a judgment. If your "lot" was an old Core or a 20gb model, or even an Arcade, and a few crappy older games that go for cheap anyway, then it might well actually be a reasonable trade for a modded PSP 1000. Given that the RROD is always lurking just around the corner with those older models, they're hardly a prize. Now, if you were talking a Jasper Elite and a few of the latest games, that would be a different story, but you didn't say that. It's hard to say one way or the other based on what you've told us.

For that matter, even if in both of these cases the other person was coming out way ahead and knew it, the simple fact is that they made an offer, and it was your right to either take it or refuse it. Hopefully you know what you're doing well enough to be able to make a sensible choice. But I would have a hard time calling them "scammers" if they were open and up front about exactly what they were offering and what they were expecting in return. A scammer, as far as I'm concerned, is someone who gets something through deceit -- intentionally giving wrong information about what they're offering, not following through on their end of the offer, or providing goods that don't meet up to expectations (such as *cough* providing a non-working console).

I'm not going to cry for an actual scammer getting scammed, but someone just giving you a bad offer is not justification for scamming them.

Well I'm not calling him a scammer now as you pretty much explained the situation correctly with the first one. The second one I'd consider dodgy simply because he was offering very old hardware for a 60GB XBox 360, two wireless controllers, and three games under the guise that his old PSP did something mystical to justify the substantial gap in value.

My concern isn't with me since I have pretty clear opinions/thoughts, so much as wondering how others feel about "turnabout is fair play". The reason being because for some reason I've encountered a lot of people lately on craigslist that have been all too eager to dupe me.

Someone selling me a 20GB hard drive as a 60GB when I was unaware that all hard drives besides the 20GB have their capacity written on the top. Being sold an iPod Touch that "needs a new digitizer" when in fact it needs a whole new logic board. Being sold this 60GB PS3 in question as an 80GB because they thought I'd wanna buy it more because of the 20GB extra. Going to a guy's house for an unopened RROD XBox 360 only to see it has screwdriver marks on the latches and a missing warranty sticker thus wasting my time.

I guess I was just very untrustworthy of the PS3 swapper at first. On the surface it had all the makings of a classic butt of an unknowing buyer. Why would someone trade something new for something old and then request additional incentives? If that was the case and I didn't know the value of what I had but he did, would it have been wrong for him to end up with the "savings" being negated by repair costs? In essence, do you accept the innate risk of lowballing/duping someone?

The answer in this scenario is pretty clear. Had I continued with the swap under false pretenses, I would be a douche, but would also fully expect anything from him giving me a like new PS3 Slim because he realized he couldn't install Linux to giving me a shell he found on eBay with books inside. That's how I feel.

Lets make a deal.

You give me Your PS3 and then I'll poke you in the eye.

Now, instead of saying "no" to my proposition, you post on a forum asking what kind of revenge you should plot against me for doing nothing but being up front about a deal you are not interested in.

In conclusion: You, sir, are ING CRAZY.

Well that would make sense if you had actually read the beyond post. I've already agreed with others that if you know a deal is bad, you don't go through with it. I did just that.

[quote name='davo1224']Someone selling me a 20GB hard drive as a 60GB when I was unaware that all hard drives besides the 20GB have their capacity written on the top. Being sold an iPod Touch that "needs a new digitizer" when in fact it needs a whole new logic board. Being sold this 60GB PS3 in question as an 80GB because they thought I'd wanna buy it more because of the 20GB extra. Going to a guy's house for an unopened RROD XBox 360 only to see it has screwdriver marks on the latches and a missing warranty sticker thus wasting my time.[/QUOTE]

Holy shit. Man, you must have "SUCKER" tattooed on your forehead or something. :lol:

Seriously, though, these are entirely different situations from what you were describing earlier. In those earlier ones, the offers simply weren't good -- yes, I'll agree that the 360 for PSP offer was terrible, but it was his offer to make and yours to refuse. They weren't scams (ostensibly, anyway, assuming that everything would have gone as described had you accepted). Clearly, on the other hand, these incidents that you're describing now were scams. They're totally different.

Personally, I won't trade hardware, and I won't even buy it used -- even if it works fine at the moment, there's too much risk that it wasn't handled well and could fail at any time. But if I were going to do a hardware trade, I would make damn sure to check it and be certain that everything is working and as expected on the spot before completing the trade. If something was wrong with it, I'd walk away.

But really, if you're going to go into trades expecting to get screwed (and especially with the mindset that you might as well screw the other guy because he might screw you), then you really should just stop trading altogether.

Hay guys Best Buy wants $100 for a pair of headphones I want, but Amazon has a better pair for $75. Best Buy must think I'm stupid. Should I just steal them? That would learn them not to mess with me! That would learn them so good.

[quote name='davo1224']Someone selling me a 20GB hard drive as a 60GB when I was unaware that all hard drives besides the 20GB have their capacity written on the top. Being sold an iPod Touch that "needs a new digitizer" when in fact it needs a whole new logic board. Being sold this 60GB PS3 in question as an 80GB because they thought I'd wanna buy it more because of the 20GB extra. Going to a guy's house for an unopened RROD XBox 360 only to see it has screwdriver marks on the latches and a missing warranty sticker thus wasting my time.

[/QUOTE]

Wow, you must be like slidecage's brother or something.

* It was my first time buying an XBox 360 hard drive
* I can't crack open someone's iPod Touch before I buy it from them
* I won out getting a 60GB PS3 as opposed to the 80GB, regardless of if it's broken
* Someone lied to me

So yeah, I'm an idiot...

[quote name='davo1224']I'm an idiot...[/QUOTE]


DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

I dunno, with luck like that I think god hates you. Whenever you go on a date you'd better check her for a dick.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi

[quote name='davo1224']* It was my first time buying an XBox 360 hard drive[/QUOTE]

Still, knowing that drives come in different capacities and such, I'd sure as hell have checked that out before buying. Then again, hard drives are wear-and-tear items prone to eventually failing, so I wouldn't buy a used one to begin with -- no telling how much life it has left on it. Definitely not without insisting on testing it first. Did you contact the guy when you discovered the problem?

[quote name='davo1224']* I can't crack open someone's iPod Touch before I buy it from them[/QUOTE]

Buying a broken piece of hardware is a risky venture to begin with. It wasn't working -- maybe the guy really did think that only the digitizer needed to be replaced -- he could have been given the wrong information himself. Hell, I know that I certainly wouldn't know how to tell what the problem was if my iPhone stopped working. But then, I also wouldn't buy a broken one for precisely that reason.

[quote name='davo1224']* I won out getting a 60GB PS3 as opposed to the 80GB, regardless of if it's broken[/QUOTE]

That's an . . . interesting way of looking at it. Especially since you were just considering pawning it off on someone else as "revenge". Sure, if it were working, you'd have certainly won out. Not so sure about that when it's broken though. Was it broken when you got it? Did you know that it was broken?

[quote name='davo1224']* Someone lied to me[/QUOTE]

Well, hey, at least you wised up enough by that point to catch the guy at it.

[quote name='davo1224']So yeah, I'm an idiot...[/QUOTE]

Well, or at least a little naive about trading. You say that the PS3 guy could have given you "a shell he found on eBay with books inside", but really, he could only have done that if you'd taken it blindly from him without checking it out first. The lesson that you should be learning from all of this is that you need to check out the item that you're receiving thoroughly before accepting and completing a trade, especially when it comes to hardware.