Suggestions about starting MMORPG

Okay, I would like to start playing an MMORPG. (And yes, I know they are addictive. I can manage my time). Anyway, I've put it off starting one for a while because I had a laptop and it wouldn't play decent games. Now, I have an iMac 3.06Ghz and I'd rather not install Windows on it but I can if need be... I'm leaning towards World of Warcraft because you can play it on the Mac side, plus it looks like a good game and I figure it has to be so popular for a reason.

My main hesitation is that most of the games I'm interested in have been out for years - is it worth starting an MMORPG that late into the cycle? It seems like there wouldn't be many new players at this point? I've looked at Second Life and Star Trek OL, but neither of those are really my thing. I've considered EVE but I'm not sure I can get into the space theme. I like games that I can spend time exploring the world on my own and pair up with people when I want to. I don't want constant PvP. And being a girl, I prefer games that have landscapes that are interesting and nice to look at and that have creatures to kill (or tame).

I used to play Lineage (1) years ago, so I've thought of trying Lineage II or Guild Wars, but again, both of those have also been out for so long that I'm not sure it's worth starting completely new at this point? I thought about trying Aion but it seemed like that got pretty bad reviews. City of Heroes...eh...maybe.

So - any opinions? Are MMORPGs that have been out for many years worth the effort of starting to play new, or should I wait a while and hope something new and good comes out?

What type of gameplay mechanic are you looking for? (turn based, action, click...)

What subject genre would you like to play? (sci-fi, military, horror, fantasy...)

You can take a look at my list of 'Free And Legal Games' there is a MMORPG section but so many of them bleed into other genres that several of them are scatter into other sections.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244468

With that out of the way - Many MMORPGs try to be open for new players so you should be fine. Very few of them come right out and say it's not going to be worth it.

Eve and Everquest are games that have been around for so long and have just a stronger higher level community that it maybe hard to enjoy it if you are playing for 'power' (looking for the best and rare items).

I would reccomend Dungeon and Dragons Online. It's combat is action oriented...It's even more casual friendly since you can solo all the way up to the highest level and they have a rich story and world for you to explore. Plus it's free.

Do you like math and spreadsheets? Then Eve is your game.

I had a good time with WoW. It a had a simple learning curve. Plenty of pick up groups at the time I played.

Most MMO's have free trial periods. Try as many as you can imho.

It sounds like World of Warcraft is the game for you, but the starting areas are a little sparse these days. The new expansion Cataclysm might change that though.

I'm waiting for Star Wars: The Old Republic, FWIW.

FFXIV is coming out sometime in the near future, too. That could snare me with good enough reviews.

You'd prob need Windows for those, but you can save up some money and get in from the get-go.

In the meantime, I'll be playing Monster Hunter Tri on Wii. Just my two cents.

I can never really recommend picking up any Cryptic MMO (City of Heroes, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, etc.). They have among the best Character Creators out there, but gameplay wise end up being fairly grindy.

As others have said, World of Warcraft seems right up your alley. I wouldn't recommend picking it up right now though - better to wait for the expansion. The "Old World" is kinda crappy to level up in right now. On some servers levelling areas are void of any non-trying-to-kill-you life. Cataclyms will be doing a lot to get people rerolling and will revamp the old world, which should make levelling much more fun.

Guild Wars isn't an MMO in the traditional sense. Only towns have random people mingling. Once you enter the wilds, you and your party are alone. And you will need a party. Trying to go through the game by yourself is a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for the advice and info. I did download the trial of WoW this morning but didn't have time to play after work. From what I've seen of it, I think that's the one I will like the most but I wasn't sure if it was worth playing for brand new members. The Cataclysm expansion comes out at the end of the year, correct?

I'm not that into spreadsheets and math, so that's good to know about EVE.

Salamando - thanks for the tips. The Cryptic games always seem to get more bad reviews than others... and I didn't realize Guild Wars pretty much required a party to play. I like playing in a party at times, but it's nice to play by yourself sometimes too.

If I get WoW, is the battlechest worth $30? I see it on sale for that price often, but I wasn't sure if the guides were worth getting. Gamestop has a sale now to buy WoW and get Burning Crusade for free - $20 for both seems like a great deal, assuming I play a decent amount. Aion is also on sale for $30...

I have a million console games to play but I have to share my tv with the roommate so I don't get to use it nearly as often as I'd like... but I don't have to share my computer.

My 2 cents for WoW, or rather, starting WoW (keeping in mind I shelved WoW since January of last year).

The Battlechest seems like a steal right now (all expansions and the core game), so I would definately by those now. Some people might tell you to wait for the new WoW battlechest that incorporates Cataclysm, but that would be months off in to the future.

Starting area will be sparse as hell, but create a character on the newest server, since in theory they should have more lower level characters.

I know that Blizzard opened up the requirement for the Death Knight, which lets anyone create a level 58 character without any perquisites, but I would actually advice you not to pick up that character, until you get a general feel for the gameplay. Playing DK is fun and all, but not an ideal first pick, especially for a true newbie in WoW.

Though every character has a level of survivability to them, best to steer clear of Mages, Hunters, and Rogues. Think "Glass Cannon".

I play Eve myself, but it is probably not a good starting point for someone new to MMO's. They do have a free trail though so you can judge for yourself.

WoW everyone else already covered.(Has a trail as well)

Lord of the Rings Online is a good one with some very very nice environments, if you like the LOTR movies you'll probably dig the game as it has places from there and such, also the lower/mid level areas are well populated and has a free trail as well.

Don't bother with Lineage 2, while I really liked the game, it becomes extremely grindy and the lower/mid lvl areas are empty pretty much, also the population for the game is very low from last I have read as well.

For the most part any decent MMO, it wouldn't be a problem join late into the game. Nearly all the major ones have free trails, I would heavily suggest give a few of them a try and find the one that grabs you so to speak. Also, be fair and give them a few hours at the very least, MMO's have so much going on and to do that you can become overwhelmed and get lost and in turn might just right that particular game off as sucking.

I've played a good majority of them out there and for me personally, Eve is the best. It is a sandbox with whatever you want to do and the game truly rewards creativity. LOTRO is fun and I've been playing it some lately and find it very noob friendly as well. WoW is just WoW you'll either think it is great and be hooked or you'll be like "I don't see what the big deal is".

I just started Dungeons & Dragon online when it became free and I enjoy it. I hadn't played an MMO since Everquest and Star Wars: Galaxies and enjoy that it's more action based and the player base seems helpful. I've not seen anyone misleading any new players and there are usually multiple responses to a question. It's free so give it a try. Also all quests have a solo option to tone down things if you are alone and can ramp up for when you are with a group. If you decide to play let me know and I'll be glad to help you out if I can.

I'll give my opinion on DDO and Guild Wars.

DDO.

You'll find it very easy to find people to play with when you start out. The beginning areas especially on the new servers are full of people. You'll get introduced to group play as soon as you want it. However, as you progress in the game you'll slowly find fewer and fewer people. The reason for this is that many new people never make it as far as yourself, and the "vets" are only doing the very high end stuff. So, this creates a mid-section gap thats very hard to get out of unless you join a guild with people to help you, or have friends to play with. You can solo, yes, but you take a pretty big experience penalty if you play on the solo difficulty, and playing on higher difficulties alone can be very tough for some characters. So, its slow going either way.

The game's mechanics are great and there's many interesting quests (which is good since that's pretty much the only way to level), but you need to find a group of people to play with come mid-game, or you're going to be waiting around a long time for groups. Once you find this group though, you're going to expect them to play with you and they'll expect you to play with them and this is what can lead to problems. This is pretty much the case with any MMO you're going to get involved in.
--
Guild Wars.

I personally love Guild Wars, but not the game it is today. Up until the third game, Nightfall, Guild Wars was another "social" game, meaning people would get together and play through the game to beat it. Yes, beat it, as in Guild Wars has a set storyline and ending and it can be completed. Once the third game came out, "Heroes" were added to the game. Heroes are basically extra characters that you can control, customize, and skill as you like. If you're coordinated enough to control 4 people at once, heroes are often a superior choice for completing missions over other players, especially "noobs." However, giving players essentially half a party on their own meant that players no longer had to play with each other except for the few places where heroes can't be used (which have nothing to do with the story missions.)

So, as a new player, its good in that you don't need people to play with you to beat the game. On the flip side, it defeats the purpose of being an online game. Its more like a squad-based RPG once you start using heroes. One of the draws of a MMORPG is the social aspect. There are other players in the world and they can help and hinder each other. In Guild Wars, the only time you'll see other players is in towns, which is fine, but most people don't even bother grouping anymore. They'd rather save time and just head out with heroes. For them, its fine because they're working towards their end-game armor or farming stuff for a title or something. For you, just trying to play through and beat the game, it makes for a lonely experience.

Your other option for playing with people is the PvP, which Guild Wars is known for. However, starting this late in the game, the major PvP players have moved on, and those that stick around pretty much dominate the game. So, as a new player, unless you're prepare to sink a TON of time grinding out PvP titles for the chance to prove yourself to a PvP guild so that you can even enter into the Guild Wars the game is named after, PvP is little more than an exercise in getting your butt stomped.

All of this said, starting within the last month, Guild Wars has moved into a marketing/content phase called "Guild Wars Beyond" which is the start of the bridging of the gap between Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. So, now, more people than usual are playing since this a pretty cool "live" event thats going on right now. You might have better luck now than you normally would, but I wouldn't count on it. Most of those players are here specifically for the new content, not the rest of the game.

So as sad as I am to say this, I would not recommend starting Guild Wars now unless you liked the sound of the heroes and being able to play the game on your own. But if thats the case, I'd just as soon play a single player RPG.

Almost every MMORPG is either freemium or has a trial. Give any you're interested in a shot. I personally am a fan of WoW.

I dont really have anything against MMO's, i played wow for about 4-5 years. But they are a huge time sink, and if you intend on playing other games that come out, you can forget about it. I missed out on so many good games when I was playing WoW and I'm still trying to catch up on everything.
However I will say this - you save a lot of money playing an MMO for 15$ a month, rather than 60$ for every new game that comes out for ps3/360.

[quote name='Bawb3']I dont really have anything against MMO's, i played wow for about 4-5 years. But they are a huge time sink, and if you intend on playing other games that come out, you can forget about it. I missed out on so many good games when I was playing WoW and I'm still trying to catch up on everything.
However I will say this - you save a lot of money playing an MMO for 15$ a month, rather than 60$ for every new game that comes out for ps3/360.[/QUOTE]

I would say this is up to the user. I find MMO's to be my plan B, they're so passive. So if I'm tired of Bad Company and TF2 I just throw up WoW to laze around and make some gold.

Well, that all depends on how hard the MMO gets its hooks into you. My one friend fell for WoW hard. He still works a normal job and goes out and stuff, but when it comes to gaming, he feels like he'd be wasting time if he wasn't playing WoW. Playing Halo or Final Fantasy means nothing when he could be upgrading a weapon set or getting an alt another level. It really has focused all his gaming time into one game.

[quote name='Bawb3']I dont really have anything against MMO's, i played wow for about 4-5 years. But they are a huge time sink, and if you intend on playing other games that come out, you can forget about it. I missed out on so many good games when I was playing WoW and I'm still trying to catch up on everything.
However I will say this - you save a lot of money playing an MMO for 15$ a month, rather than 60$ for every new game that comes out for ps3/360.[/QUOTE]

For most people yeah this is true.

It is what I tend to like a lot about Eve though too. Since all your skills you train are done in real time if you are playing or not it is nice. So I have my stuff I do in Eve when I want, but I never feel the need that I have to to advance my character due to the way the training is. Due to this I still game normally overall. But Eve also scores brownie points cause you can use in game currency to buy actual game time so my 3 accounts are played for no money out of pocket each month due to that as well, double win!

[quote name='Bawb3']I dont really have anything against MMO's, i played wow for about 4-5 years. But they are a huge time sink, and if you intend on playing other games that come out, you can forget about it. I missed out on so many good games when I was playing WoW and I'm still trying to catch up on everything.
However I will say this - you save a lot of money playing an MMO for 15$ a month, rather than 60$ for every new game that comes out for ps3/360.[/QUOTE]

I like D&DO, but at least here at the start I don't feel like that. I guess cause I'm not paying for it I feel like I can get in a few hours just a few nights a week and nothing is lost. That's one reason I've never given other MMOs that much of a chance. I can't stand sinking that money into one game.

Basically, WoW or bust. WoW's still the best. I personally can't wait for Cataclysm. Been holding off for that big expansion, but the game is still fantastic.

Like others have said, WoW seems right for you. Game has been going downhill as of late, though.

I don't recommend the trial for WoW. They block out way too many features which in turn makes it less fun than the game actually is.

Well, I did try out WoW for a little bit tonight... I made a Night Elf Hunter (I know you advised against the Hunter class, rumarudrathas, but what can I say - I like pets! I know warlocks can have them too, but aren't their pets demons?

Anyway, I like it so far - like the look and all of it. I don't know what features are blocked out. I couldn't really see any chat though, unless no one was talking, but that doesn't seem possible...

I figure I'll try WoW for a few days, probably do the trial for EVE since it's also Mac native... and if those don't stick, I'll try LOTR (forgot about that one!) or DDO. I'm glad to get the input on Lineage 2 & Guild Wars because those would have been what I'd try first if I install Windows - because I played Lineage before - but it sounds like they wouldn't be worth the trouble.

AlphaPanda - why do you say WoW has gone "downhill as of late"? & what features does the trial block out?

[quote name='imacjenn']
AlphaPanda - why do you say WoW has gone "downhill as of late"? & what features does the trial block out?[/QUOTE]

The trail only allows you to go to lvl 20, can't private message people, can't speak in general chat, can't use the auction house, and can not use the mail system. Not sure what else if blocks

As for the going downhill, I can throw a few things in there, though I haven't played in like 8 months. They have been making the game incredibly casual friendly and unbelievably easy. You can bear geared up in decent/good high end gear within a couple of weeks of hitting 80 and able to skip most the end game raid content and just go to the last couple of raid instances that have been released.

Blizzard basically took the no child left behind act and implemented into WoW so any tard can get good gear.

Have fun being a huntard

[quote name='KaOTiK']The trail only allows you to go to lvl 20, can't private message people, can't speak in general chat, can't use the auction house, and can not use the mail system.

They have been making the game incredibly casual friendly and unbelievably easy. You can bear geared up in decent/good high end gear within a couple of weeks of hitting 80 and able to skip most the end game raid content and just go to the last couple of raid instances that have been released.

Blizzard basically took the no child left behind act and implemented into WoW so any tard can get good gear.[/QUOTE]

That. I believe you also can't trade with people.

Cheap Ass Link.

cool link - thanks

[quote name='KaOTiK']The trail only allows you to go to lvl 20, can't private message people, can't speak in general chat, can't use the auction house, and can not use the mail system. Not sure what else if blocks

As for the going downhill, I can throw a few things in there, though I haven't played in like 8 months. They have been making the game incredibly casual friendly and unbelievably easy. You can bear geared up in decent/good high end gear within a couple of weeks of hitting 80 and able to skip most the end game raid content and just go to the last couple of raid instances that have been released.

Blizzard basically took the no child left behind act and implemented into WoW so any tard can get good gear.

Have fun being a huntard [/QUOTE]
I biased towards Guild Wars being that almost every monster drops the best gear in the game, but isn't that a good thing? Instead of grinding for gear, you get your gear and can enjoy the missions rather than focusing on getting items. Unless of course WoW has shitty missions and quests that aren't fun to play. But then why bother getting better gear..

[quote name='crystalklear64']I biased towards Guild Wars being that almost every monster drops the best gear in the game, but isn't that a good thing? Instead of grinding for gear, you get your gear and can enjoy the missions rather than focusing on getting items. Unless of course WoW has shitty missions and quests that aren't fun to play. But then why bother getting better gear..[/QUOTE]

I personally don't like things handed to me, I like working for those items for the gratification of actually earning them. Also the quality of the gear the person is using is also a good indicator at how much knowledge and time they put into the game, making it easier to find others like myself. Yes, I am a bit of an elitist in MMO's . I normally am in one of the top tier guilds and have among the best gear in the game for my class. I work hard at it, I enjoy it, so seeing stuff pretty much handed out now kills for me.

Each MMO is a different beast, but my goal is generally the same, though in Eve I have found a new way of playing that I love but Eve is a rarity in its own.

[quote name='KaOTiK']The trail only allows you to go to lvl 20, can't private message people, can't speak in general chat, can't use the auction house, and can not use the mail system. Not sure what else if blocks

As for the going downhill, I can throw a few things in there, though I haven't played in like 8 months. They have been making the game incredibly casual friendly and unbelievably easy. You can bear geared up in decent/good high end gear within a couple of weeks of hitting 80 and able to skip most the end game raid content and just go to the last couple of raid instances that have been released.

Blizzard basically took the no child left behind act and implemented into WoW so any tard can get good gear.

Have fun being a huntard [/QUOTE]

Love fanboys. They're never ever happy with the game. Cata aims to add some much more rewarding endgame content (So say the blue posts)

Best regards,
a Huntard.

[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']Love fanboys. They're never ever happy with the game. Cata aims to add some much more rewarding endgame content (So say the blue posts)

Best regards,
a Huntard.[/QUOTE]

The game was fine though, not like the exceptions were false when they were set with what was given to the players at first. Instead when WOTLK came out it was a rapid decline downwards.

Either way, I haven't played for a year. I'll give Cata a chance when it comes out, I just hope it presents a challenge.

[quote name='KaOTiK']The game was fine though, not like the exceptions were false when they were set with what was given to the players at first. Instead when WOTLK came out it was a rapid decline downwards.

Either way, I haven't played for a year. I'll give Cata a chance when it comes out, I just hope it presents a challenge.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that despite the game being an MMORPG which should have huge devides between low geared and high geared it's still a competitive game where skill should be the main factor. So even if you're maxed out in gear, guy who only raids occasionally can still beat you if he outdoes you. Forcing players to have good gear to raid but the only way to get good gear is to raid is a poor system so the game needs to be rewarding.

[quote name='crystalklear64']I biased towards Guild Wars being that almost every monster drops the best gear in the game, but isn't that a good thing? Instead of grinding for gear, you get your gear and can enjoy the missions rather than focusing on getting items. Unless of course WoW has shitty missions and quests that aren't fun to play. But then why bother getting better gear..[/QUOTE]

Here's what happened to WoW, in a nutshell.

In WoW Vanilla / Burning Crusade, raiding was fairly linear. Everyone starts at Raid A, gears up, moves on to Raid B, gears up, moves on to Raid C, and so on. This meant any player sporting gear from Raid C knew his stuff, since he had to triumph over every raid before it. However, this also meant that a vast majority of the playerbase would never even come close to seeing the higher level raids. That content was built for maybe 5% of the playerbase.

In Wrath, Blizzard got rid of the linearity thing. Now, whenever a new raid comes out, 5-man dungeons start dropping tokens that allows people to buy some gear from the previous raid. They can't fill up every gear slot, but it'll still put them in a good spot. This makes it significantly easier for even a new 80 to get geared and see the newest raid content. In an attempt to placate the more hardcore, Blizzard also gave every boss fight a "hard mode". It offers better/more gear, more achievements, and for the final bosses, unique titles and/or mounts.

Personally, I like the changes. As a random schmuck that has nowhere near enough time to raid everything continuously to gear myself up, it allows me to actually see the upper levels of content. It allows me to actually partake in some of the lore.

[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']The problem is that despite the game being an MMORPG which should have huge devides between low geared and high geared it's still a competitive game where skill should be the main factor. So even if you're maxed out in gear, guy who only raids occasionally can still beat you if he outdoes you. Forcing players to have good gear to raid but the only way to get good gear is to raid is a poor system so the game needs to be rewarding.[/QUOTE]

The problem is they give out good gear way to easily. You shouldn't be able to skip half the games end game raid content and go to the last couple of raid instances in a short amount of time once hitting 80. Also, to be in those top tier guilds you wont even make it through most app processes if you don't know how to play your character extremely well. People that buy accounts/gear or whatever are extremely easy to spot.

But yeah, there are plenty of actually skilled people that don't have the gear for whatever reason, but that is pretty much the whole point of WoW getting better gear. It is a shame most people that hit 80 now will never truly experience Naxx, it is Blizzards best raid content to date still. It was pronominal when it was originally released in vanilla WoW.

Giving out the gear just takes away so much of the challenge that it doesn't even make the game fun. Too many people have gear that is way way way above what their skill level would realistically get them.

[quote name='Salamando3000']Personally, I like the changes. As a random schmuck that has nowhere near enough time to raid everything continuously to gear myself up, it allows me to actually see the upper levels of content. It allows me to actually partake in some of the lore.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that sounds like they're making it better to me, but I guess if you spent all that time getting something and suddenly it was really easy to get it, I'd feel silly for having wasted all that time grinding for it (I'd feel silly for it anyway but thats beside the point!). Its probably hard for those people to keep in mind whats good for more people when having their "hard work" taken from them, so of course they'd be at least a little bitter.

Also, I have no idea what a raid is. I've seen it so many times. Is it just WoW's term for groups for specific missions?

[quote name='KaOTiK']Also, to be in those top tier guilds you wont even make it through most app processes if you don't know how to play your character extremely well. People that buy accounts/gear or whatever are extremely easy to spot.

But yeah, there are plenty of actually skilled people that don't have the gear for whatever reason, but that is pretty much the whole point of WoW getting better gear. It is a shame most people that hit 80 now will never truly experience Naxx, it is Blizzards best raid content to date still. It was pronominal when it was originally released in vanilla WoW.

Giving out the gear just takes away so much of the challenge that it doesn't even make the game fun. Too many people have gear that is way way way above what their skill level would realistically get them.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit you make WoW sound terrible. OP I'd rethink trying it if what this guy is saying is true. Its one of those "People don't play it to have fun, people play it to have a sense of accomplishment" video games.

[quote name='crystalklear64']Yeah that sounds like they're making it better to me, but I guess if you spent all that time getting something and suddenly it was really easy to get it, I'd feel silly for having wasted all that time grinding for it (I'd feel silly for it anyway but thats beside the point!). Its probably hard for those people to keep in mind whats good for more people when having their "hard work" taken from them, so of course they'd be at least a little bitter.

Also, I have no idea what a raid is. I've seen it so many times. Is it just WoW's term for groups for specific missions?


Holy shit you make WoW sound terrible. OP I'd rethink trying it if what this guy is saying is true. Its one of those "People don't play it to have fun, people play it to have a sense of accomplishment" video games.[/QUOTE]


Raid for WoW is getting 10-25(depending on raid dungeon) people (normally a guild) go through normally fight "trash" mobs (mobs that just block the path to the boss) to get to bosses in the raid instance to kill and get loot. That are lots of bosses in an raid instance and the whole goal is to get gear from killing them. You can only kill the boss once a week then your timer resets and you do it all over again. Bosses will drop a set amount of items but their loot tables are usually pretty large so it might take a lot of kills to actually see a certain item. Then depending on how the guild does loot, you might or might not get the item (loot systems can be pretty complex and sometimes you might go a long time before getting an item you want).

Each boss requires different strategies and your raid will need a certain amount of certain classes to actually progress. Some bosses are easy and you can kill them your very first time fighting them ever, others you can be stuck on for weeks or longer sometimes, it all varies on the players skills and how good everyones gear is generally.

Raiding, is all about killing bosses for better gear. Rinse and repeat when a new raid instance comes out with better gear.

I don't mean to make WoW sound terrible, it is a good game, but it has become so easy and catered to the casual market now that it is a pale shadow of what it once was in many ways. Blizzard implemented "Hard Modes" for bosses (various things change for the boss fight or timer/restrictions are put in to make it more challenging ) but even those on the whole aren't hard outside of a few bosses.

If you never plan to play hardcore then yeah WoW is pretty a slice of heaven to most if they get into it. It practically rewards you for scratching your ass.