electron configuration question.
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Moltres423
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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&biw=1024&bih=578
Thats how I learned it. Btw when you're writing out the orbital notation of electrons, there are exceptions to the rule like Chromium (and Copper too I think). You have to learn how to do those individually.
Thats how I learned it. Btw when you're writing out the orbital notation of electrons, there are exceptions to the rule like Chromium (and Copper too I think). You have to learn how to do those individually.
[quote name='Moltres423']http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&biw=1024&bih=578
Thats how I learned it. Btw when you're writing out the orbital notation of electrons, there are exceptions to the rule like Chromium (and Copper too I think). You have to learn how to do those individually.[/QUOTE]
yes i understand this but my teacher told us the valence electrons are always in the highest shell. then today he told us that for a transition metal such as Ti it has valence electrons in the 4s and 3d shells. is that only for transition metals?
Thats how I learned it. Btw when you're writing out the orbital notation of electrons, there are exceptions to the rule like Chromium (and Copper too I think). You have to learn how to do those individually.[/QUOTE]
yes i understand this but my teacher told us the valence electrons are always in the highest shell. then today he told us that for a transition metal such as Ti it has valence electrons in the 4s and 3d shells. is that only for transition metals?
[quote name='naiku']From what I remember...its will be the 4s, you lose and gain electrons from the outer most shell. This would require the least amount of energy. Anion or cations are also formed at the furthest shell, which has the lowest subshell energy.[/QUOTE]
But, if the 4s shell is full it takes more energy to take those, I think the 3d shell is the valence shell. Chromium and copper don't have the 4s shell full, that would be the valence shell.
But, if the 4s shell is full it takes more energy to take those, I think the 3d shell is the valence shell. Chromium and copper don't have the 4s shell full, that would be the valence shell.
^
seems like ure right too. I dont recall why transition metals have both shells available. maybe it has to do with the full 4s shell
http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/periodic/Ti.html
I was thinking about this from quantum where Energy required is C/n^2, n being the principal quantum number.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/imgqua/hydr3.gif
seems like ure right too. I dont recall why transition metals have both shells available. maybe it has to do with the full 4s shell
http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/periodic/Ti.html
I was thinking about this from quantum where Energy required is C/n^2, n being the principal quantum number.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/imgqua/hydr3.gif
[quote name='ChibiJosh']But, if the 4s shell is full it takes more energy to take those, I think the 3d shell is the valence shell. Chromium and copper don't have the 4s shell full, that would be the valence shell.[/QUOTE]
makes sense to me but teacher told us it is both shells so i guess ill just take his word fo it hehe.
makes sense to me but teacher told us it is both shells so i guess ill just take his word fo it hehe.
siderealshift
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Your question is somewhat unclear, whether you realize it or not.
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.
[quote name='naiku']^
seems like ure right too. I dont recall why transition metals have both shells available. maybe it has to do with the full 4s shell
[/QUOTE]
The 4s shell is the most stable in most cases, so that gets filled up first, but when you get 4 or 9 electrons into the 3d shell, an electron will jump down from the 4s shell into the 3d shell (to make 5 or 10 electron in the d shell and 1 in the s shell) because there is an extra bit of stability afforded by a half-full or full d orbital.
seems like ure right too. I dont recall why transition metals have both shells available. maybe it has to do with the full 4s shell
[/QUOTE]
The 4s shell is the most stable in most cases, so that gets filled up first, but when you get 4 or 9 electrons into the 3d shell, an electron will jump down from the 4s shell into the 3d shell (to make 5 or 10 electron in the d shell and 1 in the s shell) because there is an extra bit of stability afforded by a half-full or full d orbital.
Moltres423
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[quote name='siderealshift']Your question is somewhat unclear, whether you realize it or not.
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.[/QUOTE]
This. Kind of funny that this question would be asked in the first place; I just received a test back a week ago where I missed a question where I stated that electrons are taken out of the s-shell first for Titanium, whoops.
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.
[/QUOTE]This. Kind of funny that this question would be asked in the first place; I just received a test back a week ago where I missed a question where I stated that electrons are taken out of the s-shell first for Titanium, whoops.
[quote name='siderealshift']Your question is somewhat unclear, whether you realize it or not.
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.[/QUOTE]
so your saying that an element like Ti has valence electrons in both the 4s and 3d shells correct?
If you're asking about the valence SHELL of a transition metal, it is definitely the corresponding s-level shell (e.g., for Ti, it would be the 4s shell).
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the valence ELECTRONS, in terms of chemical reactivity, people will colloquially include the corresponding d-shell electrons, since it is these (as well as the s-shell elections) that primarily determine reactivity for the transition metals. Strictly speaking, though, these are NOT valence elections.
I used to teach General Chemistry. I better be right on this.
[/QUOTE]so your saying that an element like Ti has valence electrons in both the 4s and 3d shells correct?
[quote name='wwe101']so your saying that an element like Ti has valence electrons in both the 4s and 3d shells correct?[/QUOTE]
Since the 3d shell is filled in Ti then only there are only 2 valence electrons in the 4s shell.
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch8/index.php
"Since filled d or f subshells are seldom disturbed in a chemical reaction, we can define valence electrons as follows: The electrons on an atom that are not present in the previous rare gas, ignoring filled d or f subshell."
Since the 3d shell is filled in Ti then only there are only 2 valence electrons in the 4s shell.
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch8/index.php
"Since filled d or f subshells are seldom disturbed in a chemical reaction, we can define valence electrons as follows: The electrons on an atom that are not present in the previous rare gas, ignoring filled d or f subshell."
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