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Graduating Soon, Entry Level Position Advice?


#31 Soodmeg  

Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:52 PM

That I will just have to disagree with and what I think is one of the biggest problems with people my age and most people in general.

Stop trying to get ahead by shortcuts and tricking people. It just shows that you have a complete lack of confidence in your own knowledge of a subject. Have your yes mean yes and your no mean no. Period.

I am a fully self employed freelancer, my rep is everything and I have got to where I am by being straight with people. I bid on contracts and send out resumes dozens of times a day. I have contacts in Hollywood, MTV, BET, CMT, ESPN, etc etc and there are times in which I have won a contract and I know that the other guy is a much better Camera Op than I am. When I ask why they choose me over them its usually the same thing. "Because you are the easiest person to work with, we know exactly what you can do, what you cant do and what you will do in any given situation."

Yea, I know that my career is way different than most people but the principal is the same. When someone invest thousands of dollars in you (whether its a shoot or in salary) they dont want any guess work.

There is no reason to embellish at all if you have to that means you probably dont have the experience necessary to complete that job in the first place. And if that is the case then you should go out and find a way to gain that experience so that all you have to do is say yes. Period. Instead of, yes but.... yes kinda...yes it was like etc etc.


But even saying that, "itz tuff n dem streetz" however you can get a job I aint mad at cha. Do whatever you need to do.

#32 Clak   Made of star stuff. CAGiversary!   8079 Posts   Joined 11.3 Years Ago  

Posted 20 January 2011 - 10:13 PM

Look, as much as I hate it, applying for a job means selling yourself. If you were selling a car would have tell someone it had "a stereo with a CD player" or "A bose 6 speaker stereo with six disc CD changer, axillary mp3 player jack and virtual surround sound". That's assuming it really does of course.

That's the difference.

#33 dmaul1114   Banned Banned   24688 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

dmaul1114

Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:04 AM

But he's just saying not to lie. Which if you really have the Bose system, you're not lying.

The key is to sell yourself as well as possible. Highlight every strong point of your education, experience and abilities, and try to downplay the negatives. But don't go to far in the way of embellishing the strong points to where you'll look like a bullshiter when they call past employers to check your references etc.

#34

Guest_strongpimphand_*

Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:00 AM

By lying? That seems like the plot of a shitty UPN tv show. That is the worst advice ever.


Dont, lie at all, you dont have to tell them you are a kid out of college but dont dibliberity lie to anyone. If you get caught once, your reputation will be completely over in that section. Plus any real vet in your field would be able to tell you are bullshitting.

Trust me, I work in TV/Film and Broadcast production every day there is another overnight actor or director lying their ass of pretending to be something they are not. The sad thing is some of these guys I wouldnt even mind giving a shot but when you start of lying how can I trust you to get any of the job done.

Again, just remember that looking for a full time gig is a full time gig. You should set aside 4 or 5 hours a day looking for one. Contacting people, sending out resumes, calling people.

Just work your ass off and hope that something falls your way.

Nobody said to lie.

Embellish doesn't equal lying.....unless there is some new connection that was discovered.

I would have simple stuff on my resume thinking it was enough to get by. I passed it through some alumni and one called me up like "....what is this crap???"

And he started asking me specific questions like have I ever did this or that or even remotely touched this? And of course, I did. The stuff at hand was TCP/IP knowledge. And to him, (and a few others who got my resume) it was better to embellish that and be able to explain what you did in the interview with it than not list it at all or put some vague stuff about it.

Interviewer asked my experience with such things and I told them the truth. I was green, but I knew of it enough to list it.

I guess "lying" does work....



Sorry man, you gotta sell yourself. You're not lying, but you're at least getting that 1st phone interview! Bland resumes get tossed with the quickness.

#35 Eviltude   Steam Machine CAGiversary!   13484 Posts   Joined 15.4 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 02:44 AM

Go to grad school.

#36 Soodmeg  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:15 AM

Nobody said to lie.

Embellish doesn't equal lying.....unless there is some new connection that was discovered.

I would have simple stuff on my resume thinking it was enough to get by. I passed it through some alumni and one called me up like "....what is this crap???"

And he started asking me specific questions like have I ever did this or that or even remotely touched this? And of course, I did. The stuff at hand was TCP/IP knowledge. And to him, (and a few others who got my resume) it was better to embellish that and be able to explain what you did in the interview with it than not list it at all or put some vague stuff about it.

Interviewer asked my experience with such things and I told them the truth. I was green, but I knew of it enough to list it.

I guess "lying" does work....



Sorry man, you gotta sell yourself. You're not lying, but you're at least getting that 1st phone interview! Bland resumes get tossed with the quickness.


I find it humorous that some of think that a good resume = embellishing or selling yourself = embellishing, which is simply ridiculous. You can really tell the people in here who have been taught how to write a good resume and the people who havent. It seems like a couple of you dont have the understanding of what a good resume is in the first place.

And this isnt to single you out pimphand but based on what you just posted it seems like you had no idea how to construct a good resume.

A good resume perfectly explains everything you can do to a T. There shouldnt be anything vague and it should list all the experience and skill sets you have in a easy to read fashion, tailored to the job you are applying for.

You admitted to not having all of your skill sets even on your resume so how you went from listing the wrong/ incomplete info to YOU MUST EMBELLISH seems crazy. And its not just you, millions of college grad are completely in the dark about how to write a good resume and thus fall into that trap of thinking a good one means making false claims. TRUST ME when I say this, you are not fooling anyone, you act like these people have not seen a thousand resumes stretching the truth to its breaking out a million times a year.


And I am only saying this because I have to bid on contracts every day which means I get interviewed by clients everyday, resume, demo reel the whole nine yards. I also have to look at other peoples resumes when I hired crew. So I have a lot of experience in this little aspects (related to video production, no clue what engineers would go through but I assume its along the same lines) and anytime I see a resume where a guy is stretching the truth I pitch in the trash because I dont want to waste my time trying to figure what the hell this guy actually knows and what he doesnt, I dont have time to play circle jerk with crew.


Selling yourself is not equal to embellishing. I dont have a single embellished thing on my resume and I have won dozens of contracts and gigs from it. Hell I rarely even get asked questions in meetings anymore because my resume spells out everything they need to know about my skill set so we can get with business.

#37 kburns10   You Gots to Chill CAGiversary!   1692 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:45 AM

I just graduated myself in December. I am a Communication major with a business minor. The best advice my mother gave me was to apply to temp agencies. They can provide you with a temporary placement in a job usually in the field of your choice. It is not ideal since the jobs often end when the assignment is done, but it is work. I went through one and I am currently working for a medical firm here doing admin work. Some temp jobs (mine included) often hire people on for longer if they do a good job, so you never know if the job might lead to something.

It is a great way to start your career since the jobs are temporary and you can see if you will even like the career choice or not. Consider looking into that and feel free to message me if you want to know more about how temp agencies work.

#38 dmaul1114   Banned Banned   24688 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

dmaul1114

Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:44 PM

Selling yourself is not equal to embellishing. I dont have a single embellished thing on my resume and I have won dozens of contracts and gigs from it. Hell I rarely even get asked questions in meetings anymore because my resume spells out everything they need to know about my skill set so we can get with business.


I agree in general. But keep in mind that most people graduating college these days have nothing to put on the resume but their degree and some crappy part time jobs. If they're lucky, maybe they have a short internship in their field.

So they do have to put some effort in to selling that work experience. i.e. make managing shifts at Burger King sound more involved than it really is--and without lying because it is management/supervision experience etc.

If they just list degree and years worked at Best Buy or Burger King with no clarifications/embellishment of what the work really was they're applications are going straight in the trash as they're going up against people with degrees and years of relevant experience most places. So the only real chance is to show some relevant experience and hope to get an interview there and get an offer since they can pay a newbie less than someone with more experience.

It's a god awful time to be graduating college, particularly if you're going for any type of business oriented job.

So in that sense the suggestion of grad school above isn't a bad one, assuming you have a high GPA, can get a good GRE or other test score and go in a field where you can get a free ride plus stipend and get paid to get a Master's or other graduate degree. That will give the job market more time to improve, and give you another edge on your resume assuming you get a degree that will help you in whatever field you want to enter anyway.

#39 Soodmeg  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:08 PM

I agree Dmaul but remember I was once a guy just getting out of college myself and I followed the same rule. I never put things like Kmart and Sears on my resume because I felt that wasnt related to my career field so it wasnt worth having on there. Honestly, if you are applying to GM do you really think they give a crap about your BK experience? I actual think listing them makes you look worse but thats purely opinion.

I think this goes to show that the internship is a must to exceed in the business world now. I am talking about a real internship where you actual learn things not just answer phones and get coffee and shit. My views on internships are a whole different topic but find one that is worth having and not one that is just taking advantage of you.

I have completed 3 full internships ( 1 in school 2 after I graduated. I actual quit 2 because I felt they were just using me to not hire workers and I wasnt learning anything) who taught me many skills and I listed those on my resume to get started. Plus one of the production houses still calls me for work til this day.

In my opinion a degree is the new high school diploma, you have to have one but no one really cares that much about it. Real world experience is a absolute must and if you dont have any you better start working on some post grad internships. Like I said I completed 3 of them before my I really started getting my name out there. Also, trust me I know what some people are thinking, "I cant afford to do a internship" well, I couldnt either. I came from a extremely poor household....sacrifices man. Part time job, live with the parents, no parties, no movies, no xbox, no cable, barely internet, no fast food, nothing. I went there, stayed for 10-15 hrs came right back home and slept and its paying off now.


I just think the days of graduating from a place and going right on to the work force are completely over. There are so many people out of work who will have degrees from school well above from where you came from the only thing that will separate you is experience in that field from a reputable place. Experience trumps degrees. I have a tech school degree (which is viewed lower than a 4 year) and the reason why I could beat out people from NYU, Combila and Full Sail when I first started was the amount of gigs I listed via my internship.

#40 dmaul1114   Banned Banned   24688 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

dmaul1114

Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:23 PM

Honestly, if you are applying to GM do you really think they give a crap about your BK experience? I actual think listing them makes you look worse but thats purely opinion.


Many employers just like to see continuous work experience. Showing you worked during college while also getting good grades if nothing else shows you have a strong work ethic. And management experience is management experience, even if it's small scale like managing shifts in a restaurant or retail store. No huge advantage, but every little bit can help when you have a thin resume.

I think this goes to show that the internship is a must to exceed in the business world now. I am talking about a real internship where you actual learn things not just answer phones and get coffee and shit.


Definitely. But internship are also much harder to get these days since everyone wants them. Especially if you go to college in some college town not close to a metro area.

One thing I like about the department I teach in is that we require all our majors to do internships to graduate. One of our faculty is the internship coordinator and works with local agencies to find positions for the senior students interns, so they're guaranteed to get one. They aren't paid internships though, just for course credit.

In my opinion a degree is the new high school diploma, you have to have one but no one really cares that much about it....
I just think the days of graduating from a place and going right on to the work force are completely over. There are so many people out of work who will have degrees from school well above from where you came from the only thing that will separate you is experience in that field from a reputable place. Experience trumps degrees.


Absolutely. A bachelor's is just a requirement to not get your application instantly thrown in the trash. It's not longer any kind of leg up.

You need experience and or graduate degrees in today's job market.

In business experience is the better bet as there aren't many free rides with stipends for getting MBAs (or law school or med school) as they expect you to make big bucks and be able to pay back a bunch of loans. Unlike the sciences (both social and hard sciences) where most grad students are on tuition waivers and stipends as research or teaching assistants.

#41 Clak   Made of star stuff. CAGiversary!   8079 Posts   Joined 11.3 Years Ago  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:52 PM

I find it humorous that some of think that a good resume = embellishing or selling yourself = embellishing, which is simply ridiculous. You can really tell the people in here who have been taught how to write a good resume and the people who havent. It seems like a couple of you dont have the understanding of what a good resume is in the first place.

And this isnt to single you out pimphand but based on what you just posted it seems like you had no idea how to construct a good resume.

A good resume perfectly explains everything you can do to a T. There shouldnt be anything vague and it should list all the experience and skill sets you have in a easy to read fashion, tailored to the job you are applying for.

You admitted to not having all of your skill sets even on your resume so how you went from listing the wrong/ incomplete info to YOU MUST EMBELLISH seems crazy. And its not just you, millions of college grad are completely in the dark about how to write a good resume and thus fall into that trap of thinking a good one means making false claims. TRUST ME when I say this, you are not fooling anyone, you act like these people have not seen a thousand resumes stretching the truth to its breaking out a million times a year.


And I am only saying this because I have to bid on contracts every day which means I get interviewed by clients everyday, resume, demo reel the whole nine yards. I also have to look at other peoples resumes when I hired crew. So I have a lot of experience in this little aspects (related to video production, no clue what engineers would go through but I assume its along the same lines) and anytime I see a resume where a guy is stretching the truth I pitch in the trash because I dont want to waste my time trying to figure what the hell this guy actually knows and what he doesnt, I dont have time to play circle jerk with crew.


Selling yourself is not equal to embellishing. I dont have a single embellished thing on my resume and I have won dozens of contracts and gigs from it. Hell I rarely even get asked questions in meetings anymore because my resume spells out everything they need to know about my skill set so we can get with business.

You really need to adjust your attitude man, every thread I see you post in usually ends up with you being down right insulting to people.

That said, embelishment doesn't mean lying, and yes it can be a part of selling yourself. If you can make something sound more interesting through embellishment, then by all means do so, just so long as it's all true. I'm not quite sure you know what embellishment means in this sort of situation, as you seem to think it means to tell an outright lie about yourself.

And for the record, I was taught to write resumes by someone with decades of business expeirence.

#42

Guest_strongpimphand_*

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:18 PM

I find it humorous that some of think that a good resume = embellishing or selling yourself = embellishing, which is simply ridiculous. You can really tell the people in here who have been taught how to write a good resume and the people who havent. It seems like a couple of you dont have the understanding of what a good resume is in the first place.

And this isnt to single you out pimphand but based on what you just posted it seems like you had no idea how to construct a good resume.

A good resume perfectly explains everything you can do to a T. There shouldnt be anything vague and it should list all the experience and skill sets you have in a easy to read fashion, tailored to the job you are applying for.

You admitted to not having all of your skill sets even on your resume so how you went from listing the wrong/ incomplete info to YOU MUST EMBELLISH seems crazy. And its not just you, millions of college grad are completely in the dark about how to write a good resume and thus fall into that trap of thinking a good one means making false claims. TRUST ME when I say this, you are not fooling anyone, you act like these people have not seen a thousand resumes stretching the truth to its breaking out a million times a year.


And I am only saying this because I have to bid on contracts every day which means I get interviewed by clients everyday, resume, demo reel the whole nine yards. I also have to look at other peoples resumes when I hired crew. So I have a lot of experience in this little aspects (related to video production, no clue what engineers would go through but I assume its along the same lines) and anytime I see a resume where a guy is stretching the truth I pitch in the trash because I dont want to waste my time trying to figure what the hell this guy actually knows and what he doesnt, I dont have time to play circle jerk with crew.


Selling yourself is not equal to embellishing. I dont have a single embellished thing on my resume and I have won dozens of contracts and gigs from it. Hell I rarely even get asked questions in meetings anymore because my resume spells out everything they need to know about my skill set so we can get with business.

Yawn

I got hired. So umm.....what's your point exactly....?

#43 Soodmeg  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:23 PM

Well, you just joined the site so I am sure you are not accustomed to me. This isnt really a "everyone must be super nice to each other," type of site. Most of us have been here for years and talked to each on many occasions over many different venues, whether its video games, forums or in real life.

I mean no disrespect by it and dont try not to forget that I am just a random ass guy on the internet. What I say is nothing but opinions, take it or leave it, none of it matters anyway. But that will not stop me from voicing my opinion on a subject.

Trust me its very very rare that I intentional insult anyone more than likely people misunderstand by viewing a difference of opinion as an insult. I think a lot of people feel they have to prove their opinions where as I always feel we are just randomly tossing out ideas. I actually really really casual about my internet posting but that sometimes doesnt come through for some reason. Which is why I usually have to have disclaimers all over my post to not take it serious.

As for your post I think the context is what turns embellishing into lying. Embellishing on a fishing story is harmless. Embellishing on a federal document has serious consequences. I think what you are saying is simply making it professional. No one should put "Burger King Shift Manger," on a resume because that lingo is not professional. They should put "Burger King Day Shift Supervisor" (Or whatever not a good example but should work)

I truly think what you guys call embellishing is simply making it professional where as I think embellishing is misrepresenting the truth in any facet. There is descriptive and then there is adding details that are untrue.

You guys keep saying its alright to "dress it up" but dressing it up isnt embellishing thats just being descriptive embellishing would be to add details that are not actual true.

Misrepresenting yourself in anyway on a resume is extremely bad.
http://www.latimes.c...0,4202586.story Here is a nice article, (although I am sure you could find stories on both sides)

#44 Soodmeg  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:24 PM

Yawn

I got hired. So umm.....what's your point exactly....?


The same point you had? Why are we even on a forum? None of us actually have any points to make we are just shooting the shit. Or at least I thought we were.

We are all just talking about random gibberish my friend. I am glad you found a job thats the whole point. Work strong brother the world is not black and white its all shades of gray. I knew a guy who lied his way into working for ESPN. Whatcha gonna do? I would advise it but it worked for him.

#45

Guest_strongpimphand_*

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:36 PM

The same point you had? Why are we even on a forum? None of us actually have any points to make we are just shooting the shit. Or at least I thought we were.

We are all just talking about random gibberish my friend. I am glad you found a job thats the whole point. Work strong brother the world is not black and white its all shades of gray. I knew a guy who lied his way into working for ESPN. Whatcha gonna do? I would advise it but it worked for him.

I think we can both agree on that.

Gotta get that job how you can. But, if you lie, you will have your name tarnished.

#46 Soodmeg  

Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:12 PM

How the hell did pimphand get banned? That was random.

#47 Mana Knight   Cloud Strife CAGiversary!   14401 Posts   Joined 16.0 Years Ago  

Mana Knight

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

I agree in general. But keep in mind that most people graduating college these days have nothing to put on the resume but their degree and some crappy part time jobs. If they're lucky, maybe they have a short internship in their field.

So they do have to put some effort in to selling that work experience. i.e. make managing shifts at Burger King sound more involved than it really is--and without lying because it is management/supervision experience etc.

If they just list degree and years worked at Best Buy or Burger King with no clarifications/embellishment of what the work really was they're applications are going straight in the trash as they're going up against people with degrees and years of relevant experience most places. So the only real chance is to show some relevant experience and hope to get an interview there and get an offer since they can pay a newbie less than someone with more experience.

It's a god awful time to be graduating college, particularly if you're going for any type of business oriented job.

So in that sense the suggestion of grad school above isn't a bad one, assuming you have a high GPA, can get a good GRE or other test score and go in a field where you can get a free ride plus stipend and get paid to get a Master's or other graduate degree. That will give the job market more time to improve, and give you another edge on your resume assuming you get a degree that will help you in whatever field you want to enter anyway.

I still run into that problem, so I see what you mean (although not as bad as when I finished college).

I really want to go to grad school. I had a high GPA, not sure how I'd do on a GRE. I NEED to think of something since my live is spiraling into a mess again.


I just graduated myself in December. I am a Communication major with a business minor. The best advice my mother gave me was to apply to temp agencies. They can provide you with a temporary placement in a job usually in the field of your choice. It is not ideal since the jobs often end when the assignment is done, but it is work. I went through one and I am currently working for a medical firm here doing admin work. Some temp jobs (mine included) often hire people on for longer if they do a good job, so you never know if the job might lead to something.

It is a great way to start your career since the jobs are temporary and you can see if you will even like the career choice or not. Consider looking into that and feel free to message me if you want to know more about how temp agencies work.

I had my resume sent to one temp agency. They called me about a few jobs, but that's it. I need to go back through them again.

#48 jaydepps   CAGiversary! Lowball Ban   1333 Posts   Joined 12.1 Years Ago  

Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:58 PM

Sorry for bumping a completely dead thread, but I wanted to let you guys know that I was able to get a job thanks to the advice some of you gave me. I currently am the Social Media and Gaming Consultant for a headset manufacturer trying to enter the gaming market. Essentially that is my task.

Just wanted to thank you all very much.

#49 Dead of Knight  

Dead of Knight

Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:24 PM

Congrats!

#50 jaydepps   CAGiversary! Lowball Ban   1333 Posts   Joined 12.1 Years Ago  

Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:06 PM

Thank you! Been at it since January now.

#51 powercreep   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   277 Posts   Joined 16.0 Years Ago  

powercreep

Posted 02 May 2012 - 04:50 AM

Congrats!

Some other poster on here thought that learning a foreign languange or picking up some other hobby while waiting for his "career" to fall into his lap while living at home with mom and dad was a good idea. Nice to see there's still people with initiative and drive out there even though their first job may not be their career, at least they're trying.

/end run-on sentences

#52 kburns10   You Gots to Chill CAGiversary!   1692 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:29 AM

Sorry for bumping a completely dead thread, but I wanted to let you guys know that I was able to get a job thanks to the advice some of you gave me. I currently am the Social Media and Gaming Consultant for a headset manufacturer trying to enter the gaming market. Essentially that is my task.

Just wanted to thank you all very much.


Glad to see success stories! Especially in this economy. I hope you are treated well and enjoy the job :applause:

#53 jaydepps   CAGiversary! Lowball Ban   1333 Posts   Joined 12.1 Years Ago  

Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:42 AM

Yea thanks for the compliments. I love the job so far. The only challenge is trying to gain product awareness and enter retail and e-stores.