What can apple do to improve gaming?

Figured id kick the new board off right and try and offer up something with a bit of meat. When the Iphone launched gaming on the device was considered a joke by most gamers. Fast forward a few years later even with the Ipad out and a few years of IOS gaming it seems most people consider the platform to be nothing but 5 minute distractions. Personally I was guilty of the same type of thought till I got my Ipad(at which point it became my number 1 gaming device).

So I present you guys with 2 questions.

1. What can apple do to make people take IOS gaming seriously?

2. What does apple need to improve upon?

My response/suggestions to my own question(wanted to post in a second response to keep the intial post clean).

Personally I say the answer to question 1 is a marketing campaign focusing on gaming. In general when you see commercials for their products they are about music, talking on the phone or just trying to look hip/trendy. Gaming is never really discussed. I think a good idea would actually be a guerrilla marketing campaign where they send people to public places like the mall or college campuses with Iphone/IPad in hand and simply have people experience some of the IOS devices best games first hand.

As for question 2 I think one of the most common complaints I hear with gaming on the IPad/IPhone is that people have a million games junking up their desktop and Apple really does not offer a good way to organize them all. Apple has designed their devices for people who use a handful of apps at any given time where as we gamers often have dozens if not 100s of games installed. I think this problem has a duel solution thats very simple. First off allow folders to hold an infinite number of games that way we can create 1 folder for gaming that holds everything. In combination apple should redesign game center to organize your games for you, but also offer sorting by various ways such as genre, name, rank etc etc as well as start forcing developers to use game center. The combination of these two very simple things could go a long way to make gaming on the IOS devices much more streamlined and thus enjoyable.

Honestly, I wish they would just stop. I love my iPad but definitely NOT for gaming. There are some gems on there (Plants v. Zombies, Cut The Rope, Puzzle Quest and a few others) but I do not feel the device is suited for anything more than a "casual" gaming experience. The touch controls just don't do it - Dead Space, FFIII and other "real" games look nice but they control like shit.

Also, Apple needs to raise their standards or at least separate the games into categories and organize the App Store - too many people have the mentality that a game should be $1 which completely devalues games on the PSP or 3DS/DS which are actually worth the $30 they charge for the most part (for the good games, anyway). There should be a separate store for "indie" developers who put out shit for $1 and "real" developers who are actually trying to innovate (recognizing that there will be innovators making $1 games and big developers making $30 pieces of shit). I don't know.

I honestly wish the whole thing would just go away - I think this gigantic casual market that has come crawling out of the woodwork since the Wii launched is killing my favorite hobby. I actually miss the days when you would get bullied at school and labeled a social outcast for playing loser nerd video games. Never thought I'd say that.

Also, get off of my lawn!

[quote name='Javery']Honestly, I wish they would just stop. I love my iPad but definitely NOT for gaming. There are some gems on there (Plants v. Zombies, Cut The Rope, Puzzle Quest and a few others) but I do not feel the device is suited for anything more than a "casual" gaming experience. The touch controls just don't do it - Dead Space, FFIII and other "real" games look nice but they control like shit.

Also, Apple needs to raise their standards or at least separate the games into categories and organize the App Store - too many people have the mentality that a game should be $1 which completely devalues games on the PSP or 3DS/DS which are actually worth the $30 they charge for the most part (for the good games, anyway). There should be a separate store for "indie" developers who put out shit for $1 and "real" developers who are actually trying to innovate (recognizing that there will be innovators making $1 games and big developers making $30 pieces of shit). I don't know. I honestly wish the whole thing would just go away - I think this gigantic casual market that has come crawling out of the woodwork since the Wii launched it killing my favorite hobby. I actually miss the days when you could get bullied at school and labeled a social outcast for playing loser nerd video games. Also, get off of my lawn![/QUOTE]

I totally disagree. I think that part of the problem is a lot of gamers that grew up on controllers are just grumpy when it comes to changing to new ways of play. The same thing happened for the Wii, the DS and the Kinect. Speaking of them they also show that part of the problem is that developers frequently try and shoe horn game play styles that do not fit on to these devices. I agree with you on Dead Space but I think RPGs, Board games, Adventure, puzzle Stratagy games and tower defense games are godly on IOS. We have also seen tons of unique games like Cut the Rope, Angry Birds, Tiny Wings, Mega Jump and game dev story that are their own little genres or simply would not work as well on other devices.

Developers need to learn to program the right type of game for the right type of platform.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I totally disagree. I think that part of the problem is a lot of gamers that grew up on controllers are just grumpy when it comes to changing to new ways of play. The same thing happened for the Wii, the DS and the Kinect. Speaking of them they also show that part of the problem is that developers frequently try and shoe horn game play styles that do not fit on to these devices. [/QUOTE]

I am completely open to new ways to control games. I haven't tried Kinect yet but the Wii has some great games that can only be done with motion controls and I enjoy playing them. Same thing with the DS (Mario v. Donkey Kong ) and the iPad/iPod. The problem is that there is way less practicality in touch or motion controls for gaming than Apple or Nintendo would want you to believe. It's only a better way of doing things in like 20% of games, if that - not enough to base an entire gaming device around.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I agree with you on Dead Space but I think RPGs, Board games, Adventure, puzzle Stratagy games and tower defense games are godly on IOS. We have also seen tons of unique games like Cut the Rope, Angry Birds, Tiny Wings, Mega Jump and game dev story that are their own little genres or simply would not work as well on other devices.[/QUOTE]

You just listed a whole bunch of casual gaming experiences which work on the iPad (other than RPGs, IMO) but aren't going to hold my attention or get me excited for a new release.

I don't think RPGs work - navigating menus is awesome but controlling the characters is awful (seriously - have you tried FFIII yet? Ugh.). I'd much rather scroll through the menus with a d-pad instead of trying to control my character with the touch screen.

[quote name='Javery']I am completely open to new ways to control games. I haven't tried Kinect yet but the Wii has some great games that can only be done with motion controls and I enjoy playing them. Same thing with the DS (Mario v. Donkey Kong ) and the iPad/iPod. The problem is that there is way less practicality in touch or motion controls for gaming than Apple or Nintendo would want you to believe. It's only a better way of doing things in like 20% of games, if that - not enough to base an entire gaming device around.



You just listed a whole bunch of casual gaming experiences which work on the iPad (other than RPGs, IMO) but aren't going to hold my attention or get me excited for a new release.

I don't think RPGs work - navigating menus is awesome but controlling the characters is awful (seriously - have you tried FFIII yet? Ugh.). I'd much rather scroll through the menus with a d-pad instead of trying to control my character with the touch screen.[/QUOTE]

I guess different people different preferences. To me they work for more then 20%, id say for as much as 35% and those genres are not simply "casual" as you put it. Tell me anything casual about a strategy game for instance

[quote name='MSI Magus']I guess different people different preferences. To me they work for more then 20%, id say for as much as 35% and those genres are not simply "casual" as you put it. Tell me anything casual about a strategy game for instance [/QUOTE]

I'll give you that.

I haven't really played any strategy games on the iPad (I'm not sure I even like those types of games). Any recommendations? PvZ is about as close as I've gotten and I love that game but that's probably more tower defense than strategy.

I'm not trying to say the iPad is completely worthless as a gaming device but I do think that it is having a negative impact on the dedicated portable gaming market. If I were making games I'd much rather develop for Apple - the audience is huge and if you price it right you can make a killing.

As to the first question, I agree that they need to do a focused marketing campaign on gaming. It would be nice of them to highlight some top tier developers and remove the .99c expectation on quality games. The race to the bottom is tough on high-quality developers I'm sure. On the flip side, I love the consumable cheap game. If I don't like it, it's only .99c wasted.

My main complaint is that games aren't optimized for size. Take Oregon Trail for example. The game is 1gb. That is totally insane. That is 1/8 or 1/16 of your device in many cases. What is there incentive to reduce the size though? It's .99c and it's selling just fine. I understand when games like Dead Space, Infinity Blade or other high-quality games run that big though.

I'm a mid-core gamer and really like the unique experiences that the iPad/ipod touch games give me. Certain games can give you an experience that you really can't get on any other console. That being said, gaming wasn't what I was going for when I bought my iPad, because I think $500 for a gaming machine is too expensive. But that is for me to figure out how to best utilize my purchase, not Apple.

I wouldn't mind seeing a tiered gaming system, where established developers had a $4.99 minimum, or $9.99 minimum for premium titles. But would really casual gamers (your Angry Birds crowd for example) spend that money? Would they need to though? Are there enough mid-core and hard-core gamers to support those titles alone?

I think we're still in the early stages of iOS gaming, I'm interested to see how it progresses, but so far, we're heading in a positive direction.

[quote name='LuisRM']As to the first question, I agree that they need to do a focused marketing campaign on gaming. It would be nice of them to highlight some top tier developers and remove the .99c expectation on quality games. The race to the bottom is tough on high-quality developers I'm sure. On the flip side, I love the consumable cheap game. If I don't like it, it's only .99c wasted.

My main complaint is that games aren't optimized for size. Take Oregon Trail for example. The game is 1gb. That is totally insane. That is 1/8 or 1/16 of your device in many cases. What is there incentive to reduce the size though? It's .99c and it's selling just fine. I understand when games like Dead Space, Infinity Blade or other high-quality games run that big though.

I'm a mid-core gamer and really like the unique experiences that the iPad/ipod touch games give me. Certain games can give you an experience that you really can't get on any other console. That being said, gaming wasn't what I was going for when I bought my iPad, because I think $500 for a gaming machine is too expensive. But that is for me to figure out how to best utilize my purchase, not Apple.

I wouldn't mind seeing a tiered gaming system, where established developers had a $4.99 minimum, or $9.99 minimum for premium titles. But would really casual gamers (your Angry Birds crowd for example) spend that money? Would they need to though? Are there enough mid-core and hard-core gamers to support those titles alone?

I think we're still in the early stages of iOS gaming, I'm interested to see how it progresses, but so far, we're heading in a positive direction.[/QUOTE]

I think the game Galaxy on Fire 2 proves that there is a hardcore market that is willing to pay $10 for a quality title that is full depth, innovation, and well done graphics (until recently it had never gone on sale). Same goes for Chaos Rings and some of the newer Gameloft titles (Starfront, Eternal Legacy, Gangstar, etc...). I think it just comes down to money. You need to spend LOTS of money on your iOS game in order to constitute a well selling $5-10 game. Most (Secret of Mana, some crappier Gameloft games, etc...) don't deserve to be sold in that margin. However, if you do spend a ton of money on an iOS game, you are taking a HUGEEEE risk that it doesn't just flop. There is a lot of measure that can be taken into account in sales on the console platforms, but I feel like with the iOS, it's all very rickety and even a great, high budget iOS game can fail since it requires a high price to make up costs. Of course I can't prove this because people don't really release sales numbers on apple titles, but it's just a feeling I have as a developer.

However, it doesn't help the $10 developers when EA and Gameloft drop their $5-10 games down to .99 cents. It gives people no reason to not wait it out and get them at .99 (unless you realllly want them). Then there's the Angry Birds and Tiny Wings games that are just too popular for their own good. Because of their success, people think ALL games should be .99 cents and equal their quality. The bar has been set by those games and I think that's partially why more expensive games get shunned, even if they are good.

I do believe Apple has done a number on the gaming industry with their .99 cent apps. They are good and bad. Good because gamers can get a solid game which they can play just as long as any retail title, for next to nothing. Bad because developers aren't really allowed to take risks because we need to pay the bills somehow and at .99 cents a pop, we don't have much incentive to not play it safe.

^Apple did not create .99 pricing, the developers did. All apple did was create a free market pricing system and the sellers decided they could profit by selling massive quantities for cheap. The developers did it to themselves through a free market.

As to how apple can improve gaming, I would love to see a way to seamlessly move game saves across devices. I think this actually may be coming in the form of cloud storage through a revamped mobile me.

[quote name='caltab']...

As to how apple can improve gaming, I would love to see a way to seamlessly move game saves across devices. I think this actually may be coming in the form of cloud storage through a revamped mobile me.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree that they should have some way to save your data. Especially if you decide to delete a game off your device. The save should load if you decide to put it back on your device. I'd love to play some ipod touch games on my ipad (even with the bad resolution) if my save ported over, but since it doesn't, it's not worth restarting all over again to me.

[quote name='caltab']^Apple did not create .99 pricing, the developers did. All apple did was create a free market pricing system and the sellers decided they could profit by selling massive quantities for cheap. The developers did it to themselves through a free market.

As to how apple can improve gaming, I would love to see a way to seamlessly move game saves across devices. I think this actually may be coming in the form of cloud storage through a revamped mobile me.[/QUOTE]

Saying Apple had nothing to do with it is wrong. They knew exactly what would happen when they created a free market pricing system. Look at XBLA and PSN, that has a forced minimum of $5 and a maximum of $15 (not 100% sure if the max/min is right for PSN). Retail games may not have a set in stone max/min, but I bet you Microsoft would not appreciate a Call of Duty level game being sold for $10 MSRP. That creates problems for their other devs and decreases sales on like titles that are more expensive.

For Apple it's different. They knew exactly what they were doing when they allowed free market pricing. They knew developers would do exactly what you said. It's kind of like how Microsoft knew that $5/$15 was the price point they knew would work for XBLA. They put a lot of research into these things.

Now I'm not saying you are wrong because developers definitely supported that by making .99 cent apps and Angry Birds made it 10000000x worse for everyone else by making $75 million on their $150k app -.- (and thus allowing all other developers to strive for that success), but it's wrong to say Apple had nothing to do with it.

I just think it sucks that I can't sell my app for $1.99 without worrying that people will compare it to Angry Birds or Tiny Wings and be like "nope, not worth it until it's free or .99 cents."

Speaking of, Free App a Day and it's like websites can suck it. I understand the marketing ploy for an individual app, but as a whole market, they are destroying it slowly. They are turning every damn consumer into a bunch of freeloaders. Less and less people want to pay for apps now and that bothers me. It's very difficult to have a successful game when it's free. If you have a free game, you need in-app purchases and/or ads. IAPs are VERY unreliable and ads are the bane of a players existence. No one likes them. I would love to see those websites shut down for good and reduce the number of paid apps that drop to free.

I dont believe that the $.99 really hurts that much. I think that first off if developers make a good quality game they can sell it for more and as Plants Vs Zombies shows it will sell. Besides steam has done the $0.99 sale for years and games have thrived on that platform. Besides the fact though that I think a quality game will do well at any price I also think that developers need to stop being so lazy and blaming everyone else for their financial problems and find other ways to make up the income. In game ads can be done in a way that are not annoying and raise income, then there are sales on DLC or other in game purchases and there are things like merchandise or sequels.

I know that when I spend top dollar on a game I am less likely to keep spending money on it, where as when I got Braveheart and Solomons Grave for $1 each I ended up spending another $3 or $4 in game not because I needed to but because I wanted to support them. I also know I have been more willing to gift games to friends that I got cheap myself as well as buy additional merchandise. For example I bought Plants vs Zombies on steam for $5 and since then I have gifted it to three different people as well as repurchased it on the Ipad for myself.

A good game with smart people behind it will find ways to make money.

I think Apple has already done all that they need to do: They've provided a platform that's constrained enough by the iOS "walled garden" so as to not allow for malicious apps, while simultaneously making it open enough that someone with a novel game idea can hash it out in a few months, throw it up there for $0.99, and rake in the dough.

Like it or not, iOS has already won the "next-gen" portable gaming wars. Ever since companies started to see the potential of mobile games on "dumbphones," the market has been moving further and further away from big-budget $40 cartridge titles and toward bite-size $0.99 downloadable time-wasters. The reason being that people don't like to play the same games "on the go" as they do on a stationary console or PC. They don't want to have to worry about save points, following a story, or when the next cutscene will end if they're only playing in 5-10 minute spurts on the bus. iOS is the perfect platform for this sort of game, too, because an iPhone or iPad is something that you carry around with you anyway.

All Apple needs to do now is sit by, watch the money flow in, and keep doing what they were already doing: Releasing new hardware and software revisions to further increase the potential of iOS devices.

The devs are making games and other apps for iOS, so somebody is making a good bit of money from the deal. And there are larger, more expensive apps out there. Boardgames generally garner a higher price. See Carcassonne, Samurai, etc. Same with puzzle games (I don't mean Tetris and Bejewled, which are not puzzles at all, I mean things like PathPix, Color Cross, etc). There are a lot of low priced casual games, and that's not a bad thing. I've had a lot of fun with Pilot Winds, for example. As well as Angry Birds (though I'm pretty done with Angry Birds now). Etc. I can enjoy both casual and other types of games at the same time. I think the main reason you see so many casual games is because the iPhone and iPod touch are so good as casual game devices simply because they are tiny and easily pocketable and most people have them with them all the time, making them ideal time killers, and very unlike, say, a DS or a PSP, which require a commitment to carry.

As far as what Apple can do to improve gaming, I think one area they can definitely tackle, and I'm sure they will, is cloud storage of game saves. Not only would this allow for using more then one device to continue a game, but it would also eliminate the issue of deleting games resulting in losing your save - if the saves stay on the cloud, they can always be restored from there.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I dont believe that the $.99 really hurts that much. I think that first off if developers make a good quality game they can sell it for more and as Plants Vs Zombies shows it will sell. Besides steam has done the $0.99 sale for years and games have thrived on that platform. Besides the fact though that I think a quality game will do well at any price I also think that developers need to stop being so lazy and blaming everyone else for their financial problems and find other ways to make up the income. In game ads can be done in a way that are not annoying and raise income, then there are sales on DLC or other in game purchases and there are things like merchandise or sequels.

I know that when I spend top dollar on a game I am less likely to keep spending money on it, where as when I got Braveheart and Solomons Grave for $1 each I ended up spending another $3 or $4 in game not because I needed to but because I wanted to support them. I also know I have been more willing to gift games to friends that I got cheap myself as well as buy additional merchandise. For example I bought Plants vs Zombies on steam for $5 and since then I have gifted it to three different people as well as repurchased it on the Ipad for myself.

A good game with smart people behind it will find ways to make money.[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to be a dick, but that whole argument sounds makes it sound like you don't know anything about the developer side of things. Merchandising? Really? That's something no indie is even remotely capable of doing. Very few people would buy Solomon's Keep t-shirts or toys. It's not a well known enough brand. Same goes for Braveheart. You can make money in any circumstance, but it's a matter of how much. There's only so much you can do before you start pissing off your buyers. Ads in unobtrusive spaces generate less revenue than they would right in the middle of gameplay. 10% of your consumer-base MIGHT buy DLC. With Angry Birds its 33% and that's VERY high. DLC is like an exponential curve. The more you have, the less each one will benefit you, so you can't have a ton of that. You can advertise, but that costs money and isn't guaranteed results. There are free avenues, but those places typically have tiny user bases or are very choosy on who they talk about. Review sites can give free advertising but can also hurt sales if they don't like your game. I know what I'm talking about and believe me, with all that said and done, it's still VERY difficult to get your game out there and make money.

I take ios gaming seriously - it is about all the gaming I do these days (which isn't a whole lot!) I haven't picked up my ds in probably 2 years. My 12 year old nephew has all but tossed aside his dsi xl for his ipod touch so it appears teh kids are enjoying ios gaming. Apple can figure out a way to magically add a few more hours to my day for gaming - that would be swell!

I would like to see ios console gaming with itv and ipod touch/iphone controllers.

Well, if it's so hard to make money, why develop for it at all?

The fact is, developers are making games for the device, for one reason or another. For the consumer it's pretty much a win-win situation. Developers know what they are getting into when they make a game for the iOS.

[quote name='Darknuke']I don't mean to be a dick, but that whole argument sounds makes it sound like you don't know anything about the developer side of things. Merchandising? Really? That's something no indie is even remotely capable of doing. Very few people would buy Solomon's Keep t-shirts or toys. It's not a well known enough brand. Same goes for Braveheart. You can make money in any circumstance, but it's a matter of how much. There's only so much you can do before you start pissing off your buyers. Ads in unobtrusive spaces generate less revenue than they would right in the middle of gameplay. 10% of your consumer-base MIGHT buy DLC. With Angry Birds its 33% and that's VERY high. DLC is like an exponential curve. The more you have, the less each one will benefit you, so you can't have a ton of that. You can advertise, but that costs money and isn't guaranteed results. There are free avenues, but those places typically have tiny user bases or are very choosy on who they talk about. Review sites can give free advertising but can also hurt sales if they don't like your game. I know what I'm talking about and believe me, with all that said and done, it's still VERY difficult to get your game out there and make money.[/QUOTE]

Yes none of the solutions are ideal, but when combined they add up to more then enough to make a nice little living. The problem is your looking at gaming from the standpoint of a huge multinational corporation vs the indy. Indy developers have proven they can make games that are just as good for far less money and thus far less cost. They have also gotten on board with the idea that you can make money off your game through all sorts of different models vs just charging $50 for it and forgetting about it.

I imagine it is difficult to get your game out there and make huge amounts of money, but I have read enough indy developers talk about this that have made games nowhere near as successful as angry birds or mine craft and admit they are making a very comfortable living. I think you are just looking at things backwards and attached to the old model. Like I said I do not deny these games make less money, I just also recognize they cost less and encourage smaller developers vs giant corporations. Im totally ok with that

O and as for merchandising yes they can not do it immediately, but games like Angry Birds and Plants vs Zombies prove that once a developer carves out a nice little income if they are smart they can invest it in things like marketing and merchandise to have a much bigger profit.

[quote name='bordjon']I would like to see ios console gaming with itv and ipod touch/iphone controllers.[/QUOTE]

Please God do not let this happen.

[quote name='bordjon']

I would like to see ios console gaming with itv and ipod touch/iphone controllers.[/QUOTE]

I think they would be smart not to develop a console or TV but instead use the Ipad/phone as a gateway in to console gaming. Apple should instead just stick to working on the connectivity between TVs and their products and develop a controller for the Ipad/Iphone. Imagine if you could have your Ipad wired to your TV or better yet wirelessly interact with your TV. You can see what you are doing on your Ipad on the TV anyways, so adding in the controller would expand the ipad to essentially function as a console. It would open up a whole new world of games for the Ipad too which as we said before is great for stratagy, board, adventure etc etc but sucks horribly for more action based games.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I think they would be smart not to develop a console or TV but instead use the Ipad/phone as a gateway in to console gaming. Apple should instead just stick to working on the connectivity between TVs and their products and develop a controller for the Ipad/Iphone. Imagine if you could have your Ipad wired to your TV or better yet wirelessly interact with your TV. You can see what you are doing on your Ipad on the TV anyways, so adding in the controller would expand the ipad to essentially function as a console. It would open up a whole new world of games for the Ipad too which as we said before is great for stratagy, board, adventure etc etc but sucks horribly for more action based games.[/QUOTE]

I think that whatever Apple decides to do will be a massive success. The weren't the first to release an MP3 player, phone or tablet but are easily the most successful. I laughed at the iPad when it first came out. Now I have one and couldn't imagine not having one.

I'm more or less with Javery on this. I have an iPad, but just do some lite, casual gaming on it while watching sports in the background or stuck in a waiting room etc.

I'm just not that open to new control schemes. I want to just lounge on the couch and control games with a joy stick/d-pad and buttons personally.

That said, I do enjoy simple games like Plants v. Zombies, Angry Birds etc. as fun little time wasters, and the iOS platform is great for those types of games. So I'm relatively happy with the current gaming situation on it as it fits my limited needs/interests for gaming on the platform.

well, to me, the itv could become a console very easily. I don't see any problem with the ipad becoming a "gateway" but the itv already stays hooked up to the tv - the ipad does not. When more tvs gain bluetooth/wifi connectivity I could see it but for now the itv seems like a better console option for them.

I'm not saying I *want* an apple console - just saying I'd like to see what they do with it. I'd like to see how they would deal with creating a "controller." I got bored with wii and don't even have kinect or move (may have to get kinect just for child of eden though!) so I'm not necessarily real keen on all the new-fangled interfaces but I'm not sure it's jut a fad - all the systems are doing it these days you know - it's not just some quirky gimmick anymore I don't think.

[quote name='bordjon']well, to me, the itv could become a console very easily. I don't see any problem with the ipad becoming a "gateway" but the itv already stays hooked up to the tv - the ipad does not. When more tvs gain bluetooth/wifi connectivity I could see it but for now the itv seems like a better console option for them.

I'm not saying I *want* an apple console - just saying I'd like to see what they do with it. I'd like to see how they would deal with creating a "controller." I got bored with wii and don't even have kinect or move (may have to get kinect just for child of eden though!) so I'm not necessarily real keen on all the new-fangled interfaces but I'm not sure it's jut a fad - all the systems are doing it these days you know - it's not just some quirky gimmick anymore I don't think.[/QUOTE]

How many people are in the market for an expensive TV though? What you are talking about is trying to sell someone a hugely expensive device that they already own. Converting the IPad in to a console though would allow people to get in the market simply for the cost of an Ipad if they do not have one and maybe $50 for a cable and controller to plug in to your TV.

The apple tv is already capable of streaming apps. There is no doubt apple will soon have an app store for it. In the not so distant future I think apple will be in the home console business. They will enter it the same way they entered the handheld market, through a device that has other functions but gradually became more and more about gaming. The apple tv will soon bring iOS games to your tv.

I'm referring to the $99 dollar apple tv - sorry I kept saying itv - for some reason I thought that's what it was called - I don't actually have one.

*edit* Yeah - like what caltab is saying.

I have one and really like it. I stream all my media through it. You can start a movie on the iPad and keep watching it on your tv. My kids have a ton of movies and it's really convenient to just stream them. It seems really lazy, but I really appreciate not having to fire up the blu ray player for them. It's kind of like having all the iOS games at your fingertips without having to mess with cartridges.

Also, they already have a controller- the iPhone/iPad. You will be able to stream games from your iPhone to your tv and control it that way very soon. This will be clumsy at first, but will evolve over time just like iOS gaming has. I don't think apple will ever have some big reveal of a console, one day they will just be fully in the market like what happened with the iPhone.

Hmmm I had never seen this apple TV. I was assuming it was not a tiny little box for $100 that does streaming but instead an actual TV. With it on the market it just enforces all the more why I say they should put a controller out as well and work on Ipad to TV connectibilty. It would then mean they have 2 solid ways to enter in to the "console" market. The controller could also potentially be designed to work with either the Ipad, an Iphone or Apple TV.

[quote name='bordjon']
.... so I'm not necessarily real keen on all the new-fangled interfaces but I'm not sure it's jut a fad - all the systems are doing it these days you know - it's not just some quirky gimmick anymore I don't think.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I agree it's not a gimmick. I could well see myself just not doing much gaming after this generation as motion controls and touch screen controls etc. become even more standard.

[quote name='caltab']I have one and really like it. I stream all my media through it. You can start a movie on the iPad and keep watching it on your tv. My kids have a ton of movies and it's really convenient to just stream them. It seems really lazy, but I really appreciate not having to fire up the blu ray player for them. It's kind of like having all the iOS games at your fingertips without having to mess with cartridges.

Also, they already have a controller- the iPhone/iPad. You will be able to stream games from your iPhone to your tv and control it that way very soon. This will be clumsy at first, but will evolve over time just like iOS gaming has. I don't think apple will ever have some big reveal of a console, one day they will just be fully in the market like what happened with the iPhone.[/QUOTE]

The Iphone/Ipad are horrid controllers though. Gaming requires nearly a dozen buttons at this point in time to be able to play action heavy games and fighters, so I just can not see how the Ipad or Iphone could ever evolve to be proper controllers.

[quote name='MSI Magus']The Iphone/Ipad are horrid controllers though. Gaming requires nearly a dozen buttons at this point in time to be able to play action heavy games and fighters, so I just can not see how the Ipad or Iphone could ever evolve to be proper controllers.[/QUOTE]

That really depends upon what you mean by a "proper controller."

While it's true that FPSes and fighting games control poorly on an iPhone, something like Battleheart or Dungeon Raid would control poorly with a "traditional" controller. It's all about tradeoffs.

[quote name='MSI Magus']The Iphone/Ipad are horrid controllers though. Gaming requires nearly a dozen buttons at this point in time to be able to play action heavy games and fighters, so I just can not see how the Ipad or Iphone could ever evolve to be proper controllers.[/QUOTE]

That's because you are viewing games a certain way. The iPad and iPhone are awesome controllers for the right type of game. The best version of puzzle quest and world of goo are on the iPad. TDs, like plants vs zombies, play awesome on iOS. Time management games, board games, and original IPs like angry birds control great. I really don't think iOS will ever be the place to be for games like gears of war. But games that are created for the control scheme do work.

Well if you look above I already went over this. I talked about how different ways of playing works better with different genres. The Ipad/phone are amazing for a lot of unique game styles as well as board games, strategy games, rpgs and a few others. But as you both have said they cant do FPSers, Action or platforming games very well. That is exactly why I keep calling for a controller, because with it the Ipad would be able to play any genre I can think of extremely well. With the controller games like Gears of War could find a home as well.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Well if you look above I already went over this. I talked about how different ways of playing works better with different genres. The Ipad/phone are amazing for a lot of unique game styles as well as board games, strategy games, rpgs and a few others. But as you both have said they cant do FPSers, Action or platforming games very well. That is exactly why I keep calling for a controller, because with it the Ipad would be able to play any genre I can think of extremely well. With the controller games like Gears of War could find a home as well.[/QUOTE]

3D action games control just fine; I had no problem with Hero of Sparta and the like. And League of Evil has really tight platforming controls.

Really the only genre I can think of that doesn't work well on an iPhone/iPad is FPSes, but then I don't think FPSes control well with anything besides a keyboard and mouse.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Well if you look above I already went over this. I talked about how different ways of playing works better with different genres. The Ipad/phone are amazing for a lot of unique game styles as well as board games, strategy games, rpgs and a few others. But as you both have said they cant do FPSers, Action or platforming games very well. That is exactly why I keep calling for a controller, because with it the Ipad would be able to play any genre I can think of extremely well. With the controller games like Gears of War could find a home as well.[/QUOTE]

Eh, sorry missed that post. Ya, it would be cool to have. I just don't see apple doing it though, maybe a 3rd party will.

I can say, personally, that I'm much happier with the current gen controllers (xbox 360 and ps3) compared to say the original NES controller. It has as much to do with the games I'm playing with those controllers as it does with the ergonomics/layout of the controllers themselves. I think this will likely be the case for whatever controller exists 25 years down the line - I'll think it's great and those antiquated xbox 360 controllers I'll wonder how I ever managed to get much done with them. *Maybe* or I may be a grumpy old dad fumbling with the controller while my kids make it look like a breeze... Regardless - I look forward to watching the game controller evolution!

I too love the 360 controller. But current gen controllers (Wii, move and kinect aside) are all just refined versions of the controllers we've been using for years as it's still just analog sticks/d-pad and buttons.

As many have noted, trying to play a lot of traditional genres like FPS, platformers etc. just doesn't work very well with motion or touch controls. And I haven't really got into many of the newish genres that work well with motion controls (wii sports, wii fit type of stuff etc.) or touch controls (aside from puzzle games, diablo clones etc.).

So I have a hard time envisioning ever liking a console that's domintated by non-standard controls personally. It's fine for some casual gaming on the iPad etc., but I'd never buy a console that was purely/mostly touch screen controls or motion controls.

All I want to see is an improvement to Game Center. It is completely bare and I would like to see some refinement. I don't want a console from Apple and don't need physical buttons/etc. I get physical controls from other means and the reason I love iOS for gaming is for the times games actually utilize the touch controls. All I want--as stated previously--is a refinement of the social aspect that Game Center could potentially provide.

I've got an improvement that I would like to see, while running an iPod/iPhone app on an iPad it would be nice to be able to move the X1 X2 zoom button to a different corner of the iPad. While playing games I always hit the damn thing and it screws my whole game over.

i hope a universal controller comes out thats embraced by developers. something that i can throw one when i want to play something a little more intense. frankly, i cant stand games that have an improvised dpad and buttons on a touch screen. NBA Jam, difficult. Mega Man 2, impossible.

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i hope a universal controller comes out thats embraced by developers. something that i can throw one when i want to play something a little more intense. frankly, i cant stand games that have an improvised dpad and buttons on a touch screen. NBA Jam, difficult. Mega Man 2, impossible.[/QUOTE]
This.I bought Best Buy Psyclone gumb thumbies for the iphone because of this.It makes a world difference with Pac-man Championship Edition and Street Fighter.Mega Man 2 still impossible but somewhat playable.I just want the option of physical control.Hope Apple follows through with that game controller patent from a year a back.

[quote name='Stimes']I've got an improvement that I would like to see, while running an iPod/iPhone app on an iPad it would be nice to be able to move the X1 X2 zoom button to a different corner of the iPad. While playing games I always hit the damn thing and it screws my whole game over.[/QUOTE]

OMFG yes! I hate when that happens!

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i hope a universal controller comes out thats embraced by developers. something that i can throw one when i want to play something a little more intense. frankly, i cant stand games that have an improvised dpad and buttons on a touch screen. NBA Jam, difficult. Mega Man 2, impossible.[/QUOTE]

I'll have to disagree, actually. One of the things I love about my iPod Touch is that it's so small and thin that you can easily slip it in your pocket. (Compared to the 3DS, which is only barely pocket-sized, and the PSP which needs its own carrying case unless you're wearing '90s-style Jnco jeans). Buttons add bulk and make a portable device less portable. I'd prefer that Apple shied away from hardware buttons as much as possible, and I'm glad that they have so far.

[quote name='Citizen GKar']I'll have to disagree, actually. One of the things I love about my iPod Touch is that it's so small and thin that you can easily slip it in your pocket. (Compared to the 3DS, which is only barely pocket-sized, and the PSP which needs its own carrying case unless you're wearing '90s-style Jnco jeans). Buttons add bulk and make a portable device less portable. I'd prefer that Apple shied away from hardware buttons as much as possible, and I'm glad that they have so far.[/QUOTE]

Why does a controller mean that you could not do that anymore? No one is saying that buttons need to be built on to the systems themselves, we are asking for a separate controller which you could CHOOSE to use. The Ipad and Iphone are great as gaming devices and their market is growing, but they have a various obvious flaw in the lack of a controller the same way the PC did. The PC market made using the 360 controller pretty much universal and as a result a lot of people started buying more PC games like Darksiders or Resident Evil. So why not do the same with the IPad? Keep the touch controls, just add a normal controller as well.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Why does a controller mean that you could not do that anymore? No one is saying that buttons need to be built on to the systems themselves, we are asking for a separate controller which you could CHOOSE to use. The Ipad and Iphone are great as gaming devices and their market is growing, but they have a various obvious flaw in the lack of a controller the same way the PC did. The PC market made using the 360 controller pretty much universal and as a result a lot of people started buying more PC games like Darksiders or Resident Evil. So why not do the same with the IPad? Keep the touch controls, just add a normal controller as well.[/QUOTE]

What I'm saying is, if you want hardware buttons on your portable gaming device, there's already two platforms that have them. Saying that iOS as a gaming platform is flawed because it doesn't have hardware buttons is like saying that the 360 is flawed as a gaming platform because it doesn't support a keyboard and mouse. They're different devices with different interfaces, for different markets.

[quote name='Citizen GKar']What I'm saying is, if you want hardware buttons on your portable gaming device, there's already two platforms that have them. Saying that iOS as a gaming platform is flawed because it doesn't have hardware buttons is like saying that the 360 is flawed as a gaming platform because it doesn't support a keyboard and mouse. They're different devices with different interfaces, for different markets.[/QUOTE]

Maybe. But the games that are coming out for the iPad say otherwise. All people are asking for is the option, you don't have to use it. Just like someone mentioned that people are using the 360 controller with the PC now. The option is there but you can stick with keyboard and mouse if you want to. If they released something for the iPad then the option is there but you can stick with touch controls if you want.

[quote name='Citizen GKar']What I'm saying is, if you want hardware buttons on your portable gaming device, there's already two platforms that have them. Saying that iOS as a gaming platform is flawed because it doesn't have hardware buttons is like saying that the 360 is flawed as a gaming platform because it doesn't support a keyboard and mouse. They're different devices with different interfaces, for different markets.[/QUOTE]

Two major differences.

1. Mouse and Keyboard is really only ideal for 2 or 3 different gameplay types. To most people a controller can do almost anything. Meanwhile touch controls can only do a few styles of games REALLY well and the rest either average or poor.

2. Not all of us look at IOS devices as handheld only. Personally my Ipad is used more in the home then out of it. The Ipad can also be hooked up to a TV now meaning that with the addition of a controlled it could essentially function as a home console....something as this topic shows quite a few of us really would love to see.

So yes there are games like game dev story or Osmos which are pick up and play kind of games and I want the touch screen for them. However there are more and more games like Mega Man and Hero of Sparta that a controller would make 10x better. It would also encourage developers to port/make more games like Dead Space and give big $10+ games a better outlet.

[quote name='SilverBulletKY']Maybe. But the games that are coming out for the iPad say otherwise. All people are asking for is the option, you don't have to use it. Just like someone mentioned that people are using the 360 controller with the PC now. The option is there but you can stick with keyboard and mouse if you want to. If they released something for the iPad then the option is there but you can stick with touch controls if you want.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! And I thought that when I mentioned the PC with the 360 controller thing it was the perfect example. I hear podcasts all the time where people say they are playing various PC games with the 360 controller and have seen people say it here. It brought in a whole new market for the PC. As long as a controller is not mandatory I do not see why some people are so against it...