Why The Wii Didn't Appeal To The 'Core'

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New article posted on IGN, with interview excerpts from Iwata and Miyamoto:

Why The Wii Didn't Appeal To The 'Core'

Iwata and Miyamoto talk openly about why the Wii was perceived as a 'casual' console.


Speaking in a special edition of Iwata Asks, Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata and Shigeru Miyamoto talked, amongst other things, about the perceptions of the Wii as a casual console.

"Shortly after the Wii console was released, people in the gaming media and game enthusiasts started recognising the Wii console as a casual machine aimed toward families," said Iwata. "And placed game consoles by Microsoft and Sony in a very similar light with each other, saying these are machines aimed towards those who passionately play games.

"It was a categorisation between games that were aimed towards core, and casual."

Unfortunately, the Wii was unable to bridge this incipient divide. Iwata even admitted that the Wii failed to meet the expectations of 'core' gamers. "I certainly do not think that Wii was able to cater to every gamer's needs," he said. "So that's also something I wanted to resolve."

So how will the Wii U stop itself from being perceived as another casual console? Well, Miyamoto believes that the Wii U's ability to output in HD will help.

"One of the key reasons that such things as the core and the casual exist today is that we decided not to adopt HD on the Wii console," Miyamoto said. "Of course, besides that there are things like issues with the controller and the challenges that it brings, network functionalities and many other things, but I think HD was the biggest factor that everyone was able to clearly understand the difference."
Click to expand...

Link: http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191484p1.html
 
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Very true .... I have a Wii & I hardly play it anymore. Only when the kids & sometimes the wife wanna play ill join in. The Wii should have had an HD output ...
 
And the Wii still sold like gangbusters. Who cares about the "core" when you outsell the competition by a large amount?
 
I will admit that I'm not your average "core" gamer, but as someone who likes a lot of niche stuff, the Wii is great for me. Not as good as the PS2 in this area, but it's never been hard for me to find something I want to play for the system.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']And the Wii still sold like gangbusters. Who cares about the "core" when you outsell the competition by a large amount?[/QUOTE]

yeah - I'm not sure why they are hung up on this. They made a TON of money on the Wii. The only thing I can think of is that they know getting the casuals to buy another system is going to be tough but they can sell to losers like us who buy this crap for no reason as long as it kind of looks like they are going to release some complicated shit.
 
How many third parties tried to make a solid core title on the Wii? Particularly early on in the console's life-cycle? Not many.
 
[quote name='Javery']yeah - I'm not sure why they are hung up on this. They made a TON of money on the Wii. The only thing I can think of is that they know getting the casuals to buy another system is going to be tough but they can sell to losers like us who buy this crap for no reason as long as it kind of looks like they are going to release some complicated shit.[/QUOTE]

I think they're hung up on it because they're losing people that they need to buy the next console.

My 11 year old son now refuses to play Wii games. The Wii is desperately uncool among his friends. He would rather be bored and play something he's already beaten than play a Wii game.

That I think this is hogwash doesn't seem to affect his opinion (yet). I think that deep down he understands that there are still good games. But the Wii is sorely lacking in things he and his friends like.

One of the big things (but not the only thing) is online, especially the ability to easily play with friends and chat with them. Also are the "core" shooter-type games. Since both are functionally missing from the Wii, it's a double strike against the Wii and, by extension, Nintendo.

Nintendo's awkward-to-the-point-of-unusable online and the decisions to eschew HD and all the popular franchises that depend upon it are alienating his generation of gamers. While Nintendo has got cash in the bank and a stranglehold on idiots people like us who buy all their crap, they'd be stupid to lose the next generation of addicts.
 
[quote name='Javery']The only thing I can think of is that they know getting the casuals to buy another system is going to be tough but they can sell to losers like us who buy this crap for no reason as long as it kind of looks like they are going to release some complicated shit.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the home console after WiiU. It was great for Nintendo that they managed to capture so many casuals with Wii but if they can't convince 'the core' to buy the next gen they are going to be in trouble.
 
Is Miyamoto that out of touch? HD was certainly a factor but not THE factor. Gimmicky controls (i.e. no support for a traditional controller) and lack of even a rudimentary online service is what soured core gamers on the Wii. I guess I'm not surprised at his incorrect assumptions given the gimmicky controller on the WiiU, and the 3D gimmick on the 3DS.

Since when did Nintendo have to rely on gimmicks to sell consoles? Sure they had R.O.B., light guns, track pads, etc. over the years, but they were never forced onto the gamer as the control of choice. They were all optional, which is what the WiiU should have been to the Wii.

[quote name='mtxbass1']And the Wii still sold like gangbusters. Who cares about the "core" when you outsell the competition by a large amount?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Javery']yeah - I'm not sure why they are hung up on this. They made a TON of money on the Wii. The only thing I can think of is that they know getting the casuals to buy another system is going to be tough but they can sell to losers like us who buy this crap for no reason as long as it kind of looks like they are going to release some complicated shit.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. It will be impossible for the WiiU to capture the casual market again, so here they are on our doorstep banging to be let in again. Saw this coming a few years ago. The core are used to system cycles and dropping multiple hundreds every 5 years on the latest and greatest. We buy a game a month, give or take, and buy DLC, digital games, etc. and generally have no problems spending ridiculous amounts of money on our hobby. A stark contrast to the crowd that was attracted to the Wii.
 
But don't the "core" gamers buy Nintendo consoles no matter what? It's, by definition, what hardcore gamers do. Also, Nintendo has a loyal fanbase like no other game company. Even though the Wii was a huge disappointment for me personally I am still very interested in the WiiU and I will probably buy one eventually (as soon as there is HD Mario, Metroid or Zelda).

They have also been viewed as a "kiddie" company for quite some time now - probably since the N64 days and maybe even earlier since back in the NES/SNES days ALL video gaming was considered "for kids". Why are they so concerned with it now coming off of their most succesful product?
 
Its awful hard to sell to the casuals twice (and I have been saying this for a very long time), since they are satisfied with what they already have. While the Wii had very good sales of the system and Wii Sports, a lot of people who bought one were satisfied with just Wii Sports and didn't buy any additional software to go with the Wii. This is not good for games sales, as these people are not interested in buying additional games beyond if maybe 1-3 additional titles. So you have a lot of people who bought the system, but not everyone who bought the system became game-buying customers like Nintendo hoped for.

The casuals who bought this system will buy whatever is hot, if they want additional products they have now moved on from the Wii, and are moving onto whatever the next big thing in tech is. They probably won't buy another Nintendo product, unless Nintendo produces the next thing that becomes hard to find.
 
[quote name='Javery']I will probably buy one eventually (as soon as there is HD Mario, Metroid or Zelda).
[/QUOTE]

Those are two key words. ;)

They've been slowly eroding their core fan base for a decade. No not everyone will just jump ship after the Wii, but I think it will be a stark contrast. Then again, for some all it will take is a great Zelda, Mario or Metroid trailer in HD. :lol:

Armchair analyst prediction*: The WiiU will start strong but end up doing Gamecube numbers or less.

*probably way, way, way the fuck wrong, but what the hell. lol
 
[quote name='Corvin']Those are two key words. ;)

They've been slowly eroding their core fan base for a decade. No not everyone will just jump ship after the Wii, but I think it will be a stark contrast. Then again, for some all it will take is a great Zelda, Mario or Metroid trailer in HD. :lol:

Armchair analyst prediction*: The WiiU will start strong but end up doing Gamecube numbers or less.

*probably way, way, way the fuck wrong, but what the hell. lol[/QUOTE]
U probably right, but i still like nintendo.
 
[quote name='Corvin']Those are two key words. ;)

They've been slowly eroding their core fan base for a decade. No not everyone will just jump ship after the Wii, but I think it will be a stark contrast. Then again, for some all it will take is a great Zelda, Mario or Metroid trailer in HD. :lol:
[/QUOTE]

I agree but isn't that all they want out of anyone is to buy one console eventually? I'll buy it when there is enough great software to justify my purchase - whether this is one outstanding groundbreaking game (like Mario 64 justifying the N64) or a bunch of lesser titles that add up to something worthwhile (like the PS1 for me)...
 
They finally get that they need the core gamer because:
1. Core gamers buy games. Casual is happy with Wii Sports.
2. Core gamers buy new consoles. Casual thinks the WiiU is a new Wii controller.
3. Core buys DLC. Casual thinks DLC is a new rap group.
 
[quote name='The Punisher']U probably right, but i still like nintendo.[/QUOTE]

I still like Nintendo, there core games can't be beat. I just don't see everything turning up rosy for them with the WiiU in regards to core gamers. I've never been a doom and gloom guy when it comes to Nintendo either. I'm on new ground. :lol:
 
You folks are saying that casuals are happy just with Wii Sports, but my family and friends who are casuals and have a Wii have bought other games. Now it's probably true that they aren't so keen on spending $50 on a game (certainly not $60 - exception being Wii Fit, but that's hardware too), but they do buy games. Just Dance is an obvious case of a wild success with the casual crowd, for example. Note that Just Dance 3 (or is it 4?) is coming out at a $40 price point.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Its awful hard to sell to the casuals twice (and I have been saying this for a very long time), since they are satisfied with what they already have. While the Wii had very good sales of the system and Wii Sports, a lot of people who bought one were satisfied with just Wii Sports and didn't buy any additional software to go with the Wii. This is not good for games sales, as these people are not interested in buying additional games beyond if maybe 1-3 additional titles. So you have a lot of people who bought the system, but not everyone who bought the system became game-buying customers like Nintendo hoped for.

The casuals who bought this system will buy whatever is hot, if they want additional products they have now moved on from the Wii, and are moving onto whatever the next big thing in tech is. They probably won't buy another Nintendo product, unless Nintendo produces the next thing that becomes hard to find.[/QUOTE]

The attach ratio is just below the PS3, FYI.
 
I think the fact that they focused their resources on Wii Sports, Play, Fit, Resort, Music, Party, etc. and failed to deliver a new Pikmin, Wave Race, Star Fox, etc. as well as new franchises aimed at the core was as much of the problem as the lack of HD. Everyone who bought a Wii knew it wasn't HD when they bought it, obviously it didn't help their image among core gamers but as long as the games kept coming they wouldn't have complained. But Nintendo's direction made it clear the audience they were after and that it was going to be hard for 3rd party companies to sell games to the core on their system.

The thing that I find a little strange is how the interview comes off as if having HD will go a long ways to fixing their inability to attract core gamers. That's like saying that people will buy a TV because it comes with a remote, at this point it's just a given, not a feature to sell a system.
 
[quote name='Corvin']I still like Nintendo, there core games can't be beat. I just don't see everything turning up rosy for them with the WiiU in regards to core gamers. I've never been a doom and gloom guy when it comes to Nintendo either. I'm on new ground. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Especially in America when they are like we are not porting Xenoblade over which is a good game. It's like they say oh we are losing core gamers and then don't make sure all the good games are released worldwide and focus on games like Wii Music

I expect Wii-U to have very weak sales at the beginning unless they can produce a $300 price point with the machine.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']Especially in America when they are like we are not porting Xenoblade over which is a good game. It's like they say oh we are losing core gamers and then don't make sure all the good games are released worldwide and focus on games like Wii Music

I expect Wii-U to have very weak sales at the beginning unless they can produce a $300 price point with the machine.[/QUOTE]


Good point. Dont forget that worldwide get better LE/CE then we do here.

Wonder why they cant bring xenoblade here?
 
[quote name='rlse9']
The thing that I find a little strange is how the interview comes off as if having HD will go a long ways to fixing their inability to attract core gamers. That's like saying that people will buy a TV because it comes with a remote, at this point it's just a given, not a feature to sell a system.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point. HD is the standard, not a feature. Another great analogy would be a DVD released today listing "chapter skips" as a bonus feature like in the late 90's.

Iwata and Miyamoto are giving off a 2006 Sony vibe... which is not a good thing.
 
Maybe if they didn't sell it as a system causal people would want to play, core gamer smight have liked it more. Nintendo was obsessed with capturing the casual market, and neglected c ore gamers. The Wiimote didn't help. It doesn't always work right if your aim's of, and not every game even needs it. Great ideas, poor execution.

Then there's the whole blu-ray problem. Nintendo says nobody wants yet another player. But lots of users (Core of course) do want it. if Core Gamers are the majority, make it yet another player.
 
Everyone must understand. They can not bash any aspect that is getting incorporated into the Wii U. since they are fixing the HD issue then they can say "well, we fixed the problem. Everyone come back & buy our new console."
Personally, I feel that every single (with few exceptions) were just about me waggling the remote at the screen. up & down or left & right.
 
Almost everyone I know still has a CRT TV, so I doubt HD was a big factor in this, I really don't think anyone cares about that. NO ONE had a HDTV at least here, in 2006 when the Wii was released. The Xbox 360 didn't get HDMI ports until later in its lifecycle as well and people still bought the console like crazy. The Wii still plays good on flat screen TV's and component cables can be purchased for a few dollars on Monoprice.com. All the kids I know that are playing Wii are still playing it on their tiny CRT bedroom TV's.

HD will definitely be a factor next gen, it would simply be foolish to make a SD console only for next gen. I expect all the people I know to start dumping their CRT TV's soon for HD sets. CRT TV dumping here is at unprecedented levels.
 
[quote name='Corvin']Excellent point. HD is the standard, not a feature. Another great analogy would be a DVD released today listing "chapter skips" as a bonus feature like in the late 90's.

Iwata and Miyamoto are giving off a 2006 Sony vibe... which is not a good thing.[/QUOTE]
Yes Nintendo needs to stop saying things like HD or Online are features. They are standards nowadays and Nintendo should not make claims like oh look we have HD and better online. Our core gamers will come back.

If you want core gamers back, you need to not say look at all these features that we now have in our console that others have. It makes them look like were finally catching up to 2006 which is sad. Also they need to stop saying oh look we are going to get more 3rd party games. Just do it and don't make it a feature of the new console.

I have only bought one new release this year for Wii (Xenoblade), and that is pretty sad seeing I am getting two games on Tuesday that can both run on a PS3 (Dead Island and Disgaea 4 although Dead Island is PC).
 
Honestly, Nintendo never lost me. My Wii backlog is huge, I don't see Any drought, and I'm glad 12 year olds don't play my system. I bought a 3DS knowing it'll have the great first party games eventually, just like the wii U will, and that's all I really want. I could care less about hd, but we do need some good online
 
[quote name='gambit444']Everyone must understand. They can not bash any aspect that is getting incorporated into the Wii U. since they are fixing the HD issue then they can say "well, we fixed the problem. Everyone come back & buy our new console."
Personally, I feel that every single (with few exceptions) were just about me waggling the remote at the screen. up & down or left & right.[/QUOTE]

God I love waggle. I hate picking up a game like assassins creed after playing something else and trying to remember what effing button is jump. The wii controller is my favorite.

I hope they do diablo or an rts game for wii u. Perfect for a touchscreen.
 
If Nintendo (of America at least) gave a damn about hardcore (not "casualcores" that only play Halo/CoD/Madden) gamers then Xenoblade would have been released in the US already. They have a lot of work to do if they want me to buy the WiiU.
 
[quote name='KtMack23'] I'm glad 12 year olds don't play my system.[/QUOTE]

The phrase, "if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound" comes to mind.
 
[quote name='Killbomb']If Nintendo (of America at least) gave a damn about hardcore (not "casualcores" that only play Halo/CoD/Madden) gamers then Xenoblade would have been released in the US already. They have a lot of work to do if they want me to buy the WiiU.[/QUOTE]
The funny thing is that I probably wouldn't have bought Xenoblade or any of the other games they've failed to release, but the fact that they haven't still makes me more hesitant to bother with the WiiU. They really just don't get it.
 
the Wii U will do great in Japan i'm certain, just like the 360 does great in the US. I'm all for nintendo's innovation even though it sometimes feels more niche at times and doesn't recieve enough 3rd party support. Wii is now the official game console of thanksgiving at my house only because the anyone can play wii sports resort and/or at least enjoy watching it.
 
I had a friend who got into a passionate screaming match about how Nintendo abandoned its core fanbase who had been supporting them and growing up as gamers with them since the days of the NES.

I personally think it's a great system and still play it; Mario Kart on the Wii is still a good time to me. There's plenty of "hardcore" games on the Wii:

House of the Dead: Overkill
Madworld
Castle Shikigami 3
Ultimate Shooting Collection (Still need to get this one)
No More Heroes 1 & 2
Ghost Squad
House of the Dead 2 & 3
Dokapon Kingdom
Muramasa
Pop N Music
Pinball Hall of Fame Williams and Gottlieb Collection
... and more

But all the above posters are right; the influx of casual games, Wii Fit, and Mini-game collections is what gave the Wii its reputation.
 
Corvin said what I was going to say. It was the controller. It remains the controller. I don't like it, I don't think it makes games any better, and when it comes to platformers like NSMB Wii and DKC Returns, it literally makes it worse by adding motion controls to a function best handled by a button-press. Some stuff like Wii Sports works well with the motion controls, but I'm not going to sit and play Wii Bowling for more than a couple games at a time. I want to lose myself in the worlds that Nintendo are absolute masters at crafting, not fall off a cliff because my wig was more of a wag and Mario didn't do what I wanted him to do.
 
I also think it had to do something with the controller. I just want a traditional controller, which the Classic Controller Pro did for me and I would really love to see them use that more often in the Wii U era, instead of just the regular Wii remote controllers. Or offer an option for both. They could both work for FPS games and since at this point in time, that the Wii U can only use one of the Wii U controllers at once, we're going to be forced to use Wii remotes to play their games.

I was hoping Nintendo would use a more traditional controller for their next console, but I can't wait to hear more official reports on it.

Edit: I just had a thought. I think Nintendo might move the Wii U to late 2012/early 2013, just so they can focus more on the Nintendo 3DS and work on the Wii U a bit more. I don't know, it's just a thought. Feel free to discuss about though!
 
I'm fully expecting a $300 console, it'll probably be on par with a $300 home built PC from a few years ago. I just hope someone shakes the fear of life into nintendo yelling "This isn't good enough" until they understand that being "HD" is the lowest common denominator these days and they need to exceed that with amazing processors and gpus to please every gamer... This thing is gonna be on the shelf for 5 or more years, instead of grasping at straws for 3rd party support that whole time just make a nice big initial investment to ensure they're the generic "xbox 360" status of nextgen that supports every game.
 
[quote name='Droenixjpn']Edit: I just had a thought. I think Nintendo might move the Wii U to late 2012/early 2013, just so they can focus more on the Nintendo 3DS and work on the Wii U a bit more. I don't know, it's just a thought. Feel free to discuss about though![/QUOTE]

AFAIK Wii U is already targeted for holiday 2012.
 
They do obviously.

Only so much money to be made on hardware sales. Software sales are where the big $$$ are and the Wii attach rate was pretty poor. Too many just bought it for Wii Sports and Wii Fit and bought little else afterwards.
 
I don't think it's all the shovelware, and I don't think it's the motion controls, I don't even think it's the less-than-stellar name of the hardware, but Nintendo screwed the "core" gamers too much by staying away from internet capabilities, and not making enough of an effort to provide good multiplayer/competitvie game experiences. I mean come on, games like Wii Sports and its ilk would have been at least 5 times more enjoyable if it had even just an online scoreboard, would have been fantastic if even just Wii bowling had online multiplayer.
 
Lack of HD really hurt as well. Playing even the great games on the Wii I still always have "damn I wish this was in HD so it wasn't a jaggy mess" in the back of my mind.

For me it was that and the great core games being so few and far between. Their are some great games on the Wii for sure, just not nearly enough of them compared to the other consoles this generation.

Online would have added some, but I mainly play FPS games online and wouldn't want to play those with the Wii controller anyway, nor in standard definition.
 
How you launch sometimes goes a long way to how people perceive the system. The Wii being a non-HD system, with whacky controls and launch games that appeal more to the casual gamer rather than the hard core (with the exception of Twilight Princess), many viewed the system as being not for them. Given the relative failure of 3rd party core gamer games on the Wii, the situation ended up being a viscious circle.

That being said, I think the Wii has been a good system, with a lot of good, unique games that you can't find elsewhere.
 
they need achievements and accounts for Live, they need more online games than just 2 big ones. Why not add a online mode for Mario Bros, And idc if i can see where people died in a game I just want to play with them not chat....
 
They also need GTA 5 and other huge titles, who cares if they finally got Arkham City, I beat that and it came out what almost a year ago? The problem with Nintendo is they always seem to get great games months after they come out with a different title like something edition, why can't it be released with the 360 and PS3 versions?
 
[quote name='pacemakerguy']they need achievements and accounts for Live, they need more online games than just 2 big ones. Why not add a online mode for Mario Bros, And idc if i can see where people died in a game I just want to play with them not chat....[/QUOTE]

Imagine a gorgeous HD-ified versions of WaveRace & F-Zero with online multiplayer. :drool: I don't think either have the drawing power alone to be a system seller, but combined with Pikmin 3 and NSMB2 and you have a launch worthy of swaying the disenchanted core gamer.

Speaking of online, have they revealed how you will actually chat with anyone?

[quote name='TheLongshot']How you launch sometimes goes a long way to how people perceive the system. The Wii being a non-HD system, with whacky controls and launch games that appeal more to the casual gamer rather than the hard core (with the exception of Twilight Princess), many viewed the system as being not for them. Given the relative failure of 3rd party core gamer games on the Wii, the situation ended up being a viscious circle.
[/QUOTE]

Actually Nintendo sold the Wii to the core at launch based on potential and a lot of those people feel burned.
 
[quote name='pacemakerguy']WatchDogs may come to Wii U!!![/QUOTE]

If it comes to the Wii-U, that will be a tough call for me between that and my nice PC. Hacking with the gamepad would be perfect.
 
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