Help with this attempted scam on ebay?

ShadowSx

ShadowSx

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So on September 16th, I sold an item, the winner has 0 feedback and was a member since 08.

Later after he won he messaged me with this:

Is there any other way to make this payment? I cannot stand paypal because it will take 3-5 days just to get money on my paypal account.
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I tell him that I will only accept paypal, and so in 3 days he makes payment (yesterday) and I went to ship the item (Today) to the address (verified) on paypal that was used on the ebay account.

A few hours after it was marked 'shipped' on Ebay, he sends me this message:

I have recently updated the mailing address on ebay, I hope you get this before it ships, [address #2] is the proper address. Thanks!
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I have already shipped to the original address with tracking.

So the question is, should I be worried about him actually winning in this scam attempt? Or if I just ignore him will I get to keep the money?

Thanks if someone could shed some light on this.
 
[quote name='ShadowSx']So on September 16th, I sold an item, the winner has 0 feedback and was a member since 08.

Later after he won he messaged me with this:




I tell him that I will only accept paypal, and so in 3 days he makes payment (yesterday) and I went to ship the item (Today) to the address (verified) on paypal that was used on the ebay account.

A few hours after it was marked 'shipped' on Ebay, he sends me this message:




I have already shipped to the original address with tracking.

So the question is, should I be worried about him actually winning in this scam attempt? Or if I just ignore him will I get to keep the money?

Thanks if someone could shed some light on this.[/QUOTE]

sounds like your going to be #$)*)*%#% the buyer is pulling a scam.. this is why i refuse to sell to anyone with a 0 ranting i would contact paypal and tell them about this asap
 
My understanding is that you can only ship to the Paypal confirmed address, regardless of what the eBay address says. Otherwise you won't be protected.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']My understanding is that you can only ship to the Paypal confirmed address, regardless of what the eBay address says. Otherwise you won't be protected.[/QUOTE]

It was shipped to his address which was verified on the paypal account used to pay.
 
If you shipped it to his verified address I'd think you'd be okay. Tracking will show it delivered, so I don't really know what he'd be able to argue.
 
If he really JUST changed his address legitimately, wouldn't he be having his mail forwarded to the new address too? I think it's a scam too but logically you should be covered that way too.
 
[quote name='ShadowSx']It was shipped to his address which was verified on the paypal account used to pay.[/QUOTE]

Okay, good, you should be fine. My point was: don't let him talk you into shipping to any other address (especially with such low feedback... I've occasionally done that for people I've had multiple flawless transactions with, but would never advise doing it in a case like this).
 
Can you appeal the decision? You should have the evidence to document that you sent it to his verified PayPal address after he paid and before he decided to change his address. PayPal/Ebay has to give you some reason you did something wrong to take your money away like that.
 
[quote name='kodave']Can you appeal the decision? You should have the evidence to document that you sent it to his verified PayPal address after he paid and before he decided to change his address. PayPal/Ebay has to give you some reason you did something wrong to take your money away like that.[/QUOTE]

I was sent a message from eBay saying that he has filed a dispute and it is under review. And on my Paypal account I have a negative balance of $40.

Not sure really.
 
[quote name='ShadowSx']Ok so he did try and file a dispute with paypal and they did side with him. Great.

Now i'm out of my item and my $40.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='ShadowSx']I was sent a message from eBay saying that he has filed a dispute and it is under review. And on my Paypal account I have a negative balance of $40.

Not sure really.[/QUOTE]

Wait... so did you actually get an email saying they sided with the buyer? Because if there is a dispute filed against you, they put a hold on the amount in question (and if you had a zero balance, it would be a negative $40 balance for the hold) until it's resolved.

You should have had a chance to tell your side of the story. Just because they side with him doesn't mean it's over, you can call eBay and tell them what happened. It's possible eBay will eat the cost so while the buyer will have gotten away with it, at least you'll get your money back.
 
[quote name='Vinny']Wait... so did you actually get an email saying they sided with the buyer? Because if there is a dispute filed against you, they put a hold on the amount in question (and if you had a zero balance, it would be a negative $40 balance for the hold) until it's resolved.

You should have had a chance to tell your side of the story. Just because they side with him doesn't mean it's over, you can call eBay and tell them what happened. It's possible eBay will eat the cost so while the buyer will have gotten away with it, at least you'll get your money back.[/QUOTE]

Ok I looked over it again and I sent my side of the story to ebay. And the email did say it was a hold on the payment (although I was at a $0 balance already).

Thanks
 
[quote name='ShadowSx']Ok I looked over it again and I sent my side of the story to ebay. And the email did say it was a hold on the payment (although I was at a $0 balance already).

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Hope you were very thorough in reporting your side of the story. The more thorough you are with your evidence, the better chance you have of winning. PayPal/eBay is very buyer biased but sellers do still have a chance.
 
[quote name='kodave']Hope you were very thorough in reporting your side of the story. The more thorough you are with your evidence, the better chance you have of winning. PayPal/eBay is very buyer biased but sellers do still have a chance.[/QUOTE]

I explained what happened and showed the messages he sent me and the timestamps on them and with the shipping info, they limited my response to 350 or so characters and I used all of it, otherwise I would of put more detail into it.
 
I can't believe paypal and ebay fall for these kind of scams so easily, since the verified address usually means that the buyer should receive the item legitimately and if the verified address isn't the correct address then that fault lies within the buyer, it's like trying to fault bestbuy or walmart or any other retailer because you gave them the wrong shipping address, which is something that anyone can hardly royally fuck up
 
[quote name='exaznkid']I can't believe paypal and ebay fall for these kind of scams so easily, since the verified address usually means that the buyer should receive the item legitimately and if the verified address isn't the correct address then that fault lies within the buyer, it's like trying to fault bestbuy or walmart or any other retailer because you gave them the wrong shipping address, which is something that anyone can hardly royally fuck up[/QUOTE]

I know, I mean I have all the messages he sent me and shipping information and the timestamps all match up so if I don't get my money/item back then I will be greatly disappointed in ebay/paypal.
 
Just got this from Ebay.

Final decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favor.

eBay Customer Support comments:
For more information about this case, please refer to the email we sent you.

Reason for refund: Item not received

Reimbursement summary:
The refund amount has been paid in full.

Transaction information:
We've removed the hold on this PayPal transaction.
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This is completely retarded right here, I will try to appeal it with ebay but i'm sure there is no way I will win.

Ebay = supporting scammers
 
So not am I only out the $60 I spent on the item in the first place, now I lose $40 because I had to refund this prick. So $100 lost for no reason, and I don't get my item back. Ebay/Paypal are truly retarded as fuck.

I also cannot believe that they just TOOK it from my bank account without any kind of warning.
 
[quote name='helluvagood']Wow it's this easy to scam people ?[/QUOTE]

Basically. I guess the buyer is always right even when there is proof against him.

So theoretically I can just go onto ebay and buy something and claim I never got it. And then get the item AND the money?

Pathetic.



I also find it quite amusing that I contacted ebay BEFORE he opened the case explaining the issue and the representative said that I shouldn't worry, and that if he does try to dispute I won't be at fault.
 
Sorry for not going back through for all details but you got paid via paypal, the paypal payment email that contained the address is the one you sent it to and then at some point he changed it and you wouldnt send it to the new one and his claim went through and won?
 
[quote name='Will']Sorry for not going back through for all details but you got paid via paypal, the paypal payment email that contained the address is the one you sent it to and then at some point he changed it and you wouldnt send it to the new one and his claim went through and won?[/QUOTE]

Basically.

He paid on the 18th

I packaged and printed the label (towards the address that PayPal provided to me, and that it was intended to be shipped to) on the 19th, and dropped it at the post office.

On the 20th (two days after he paid for it, at this point it is also marked 'SHIPPED' on eBay), he sends me a message with a different address telling me to ship their instead, but the item was already shipped.

He sends me a second message with the same thing above a week later after it says delivered to the address (that is on his account, was used for payment ect.). The only place the "2nd address" is located is in the message he sent me.

On the 28th he opens a case with eBay and basically provides no information, all he does is complain and demand a refund because he never got the item.

I give ebay the shipping information that shows it was delivered. And I explain the situation (maybe I was too vague?).

AND YET they STILL side with him?
 
Praise the lord folks.

I just got a reply to my appeal after the case was closed.

We've reversed the outcome for case (xxxxxxxx) and payment is on its way

Dear xxxxxx ([email protected])

We've reviewed the appeal of case xxx involving this transaction :

[Item]

We'll credit the amount of the refund to your PayPal account. Payment processing for your credit may take up to 7 days.

If you didn't refund the buyer or reimburse eBay, you don't need to take any other action.

Thanks,

eBay

Please don't reply to this message. It was sent from an address that doesn't accept incoming email.
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Atleast they fixed their mistake.
 
Good to hear they reached the right result in this case. It sucks you had to jump through so many hoops, but at least you didn't get scammed.

Isn't there a thread in one of the forums to post information about eBay scammers?
 
So what did you do/say in your appeal? It could likely help one of us in the future..

Truth be told though, even I'm shocked that they sided with the buyer at first. That was fucking idiotic.
 
[quote name='Vinny']So what did you do/say in your appeal? It could likely help one of us in the future..

Truth be told though, even I'm shocked that they sided with the buyer at first. That was fucking idiotic.[/QUOTE]

I screenshot all the messages he sent me, gave them the tracking information and all the information on the paypal transaction. That way all the time stamps matched up and they can clearly see that the item was out of my hands for almost 12 hours before getting his first message asking it to be sent to another address. And that it was successfully delivered to the address I was provided.

I still can't believe eBay can be this stupid not to of seen it the first time I explained it to them. And that they had the audacity to just take it from my bank account without any prior warning or heads up.

And unless the buyer was really butthurt about not getting his item, I looked on google and the 2 address are literally 5 miles away, so he could of just drove their and picked it up.
 
good to hear everything is alright, i wonder is there a way to deny selling to 0 feedback especially for costly items, i no everyone has to start somewhere, but perhaps everyone should start with small transactions
 
[quote name='skiizim']Just out of sheer curiosity, the addresses provided to you, were they even close by to each other?[/QUOTE]

They were just down the street from each other, only 5 miles apart.
 
[quote name='exaznkid']good to hear everything is alright, i wonder is there a way to deny selling to 0 feedback especially for costly items, i no everyone has to start somewhere, but perhaps everyone should start with small transactions[/QUOTE]


No there is not a way to rule out a 0 feedback buyer.

This is about as strict as you can get.


Dont have a paypal account

2 unpaid item strikes within the last 12 months

Have a primary address where i do not ship

Have a -1 or lower feedback rating

Are winning or won 3 auctions within the last 10 days with a feedback less than 5

You also can copy and paste the list of deadbeat bidders on this site
 
I'm just curious, when the dispute was filed and you sent your info were you able to upload a image file showing the shipping label info (if you printed off of eBay it will show where the item is being shipped to and the tracking number). I find it weird that they would side with the buyer in the first place if you did upload that information. If you just showed them the USPS delivery confirmation number it doesn't really show a detailed address it just says delivered to "City, Zipcode @ X:XXPM" then I could see why they would make that mistake.
 
I'm creating a wiki thread in the Auction Forum on how to avoid getting scammed on eBay (it's also linked at the bottom of my sig.), and although I'm sorry you had to go through this frustrating experience, this is exactly the type of info I'm looking for. I'm stupefied as to how your sleazeball scammer won the original dispute in the first place:

If I read all the details correctly, you shipped within 7 days of getting paid to the address listed under the PayPal "Transaction Details" and you provided them with a tracking number that showed a successful delivery status. Doing all of those should have fulfilled the criteria for automatic PayPal Seller Protection in the case of an "Item not Received" claim.

Some follow-up questions:
  • Did the buyer file the claim through PayPal or through eBay? (It sounded like you got notified first through PayPal, but the dispute was handled by eBay?)
  • When you were asked for your side of the story (in the original dispute), were you asked to provide any specific information (like the tracking number, proof of shipping, proof of delivery, etc.), or were you just generically asked to to explain your story in 350 characters or less? (side note: seriously, only 350 characters? WTF?!?) Was there any place you could upload additional evidence (pictures, tracking info, etc.)?
  • Did you mention Seller Protection at all during the original dispute? (I'm guessing not, especially with only 350 characters, and you probably don't want to waste the characters and risk sounding suspiciously defensive…)
  • Do you remember if you printed the shipping label through the PayPal site or through the eBay site?
  • Do you know if the tracking number was correctly logged on the PayPal site AND on the eBay site? (I've had a couple of sales where I had to manually input the tracking number onto the PayPal site, and a couple of sales where the tracking number showed up automatically)
  • Did eBay provide you with an actual explanation for why they ruled against you in the original dispute? (I noticed the "for more information about this case, please refer to the email we sent you") Would you mind sharing what it said?
  • During the appeals process, were you asked for any specific info, or were you again just generically asked to explain your side of the story again? Were you limited to a certain number of characters and/or given the option to upload additional evidence (or did you have to email the pics or host them on a site somewhere)?
  • Did you mention Seller Protection at any time during the appeals process?
  • How long did it take before you heard back about the results of the appeal?

Sorry about asking so many questions, but I'm hoping that the details might help other CAGs defend themselves in similar situations or even avoid getting scammed in the first place. If anyone else wants to share their experiences and/or suggestions on how to avoid getting scammed on eBay, please check out this thread here!
 
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