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Are teachers (K-12) undercompensated?


#61 berzirk   I'm not so serious CAGiversary!   2506 Posts   Joined 11.2 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:27 PM

It's because admiration is free.

If you truly are making great videogames then I admire the work you do berzirk, can I have your videogames for supercheap or free because I admire your work? Or would you feel insulted that I do not truly value your hard work?


We're actually middleware for one product line, so we don't make the games, we work with the devs and producers to provide tools. I've gotten a decent amount of free games though from working with some of those devs. Great job perk. I'd get you a good discount on the PC Gaming peripheral (different product line) we make if you're interested. Feel free to PM me if you are and I'll send you a link to it and answer any questions. I'd rather not be guilty of advertising it on CAG, when that's not my intention. Wait, what was your analogy again?

#62 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4638 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

Exactly. And I don't see why people bitch about teacher salaries given:

1. How important good teachers are to society's future.

2. How grossly overpaid people are in many other professions that aren't nearly as important to the progress of society.

I mean I get some of the gripes about not having enough accountability, tenure making it to hard to fire bad teachers etc. But those are different issues and aside from the point of what good teachers deserve to be paid.


Ditto. I would say teachers are terribly underpaid as shown by the terrible brain drain in teachers K-12. However, before any pay raises come about there is a serious need for reform and accountability.

#63 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15229 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:13 PM

We're actually middleware for one product line, so we don't make the games, we work with the devs and producers to provide tools. I've gotten a decent amount of free games though from working with some of those devs. Great job perk. I'd get you a good discount on the PC Gaming peripheral (different product line) we make if you're interested. Feel free to PM me if you are and I'll send you a link to it and answer any questions. I'd rather not be guilty of advertising it on CAG, when that's not my intention. Wait, what was your analogy again?


Haha you want to play this game. OK.

I'm interested in investing - how much is the company paying you? If I buy out the company can I lower your salary because I admire the great sales job you do so much? Will you stay or just say Fuck that noise.

It's a hypothetical so don't get too worked up...

#64 berzirk   I'm not so serious CAGiversary!   2506 Posts   Joined 11.2 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:26 PM

Haha you want to play this game. OK.

I'm interested in investing - how much is the company paying you? If I buy out the company can I lower your salary because I admire the great sales job you do so much? Will you stay or just say Fuck that noise.

It's a hypothetical so don't get too worked up...


Bleh, OK. So I won't tell you how much I'm being paid, it's a privately held company, and if you owned it and said you planned on lowering my salary (who in this thread has said we should pay teachers less?), but will be matching state worker's benefits, it would depend on how much you wanted to lower my salary. I'd have to evaluate if it was worth it to stay with this organization...so for the love of God...what is your point?

#65 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15229 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:49 PM

Bleh, OK. So I won't tell you how much I'm being paid, it's a privately held company, and if you owned it and said you planned on lowering my salary (who in this thread has said we should pay teachers less?), but will be matching state worker's benefits, it would depend on how much you wanted to lower my salary. I'd have to evaluate if it was worth it to stay with this organization...so for the love of God...what is your point?


Teachers are skilled labor, if you want good teachers you need to pay good salaries - otherwise many of the best, like you or me or any other talented and skilled labor, will walk and you'll be left with alot of dead wood.

The fact that you admire teachers (you know that three paragraph post where you went on and on..) means exactly jack shit if that admiration doesn't translate into supporting their effort to receive fair compensation.

#66 berzirk   I'm not so serious CAGiversary!   2506 Posts   Joined 11.2 Years Ago  

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:57 PM

Teachers are skilled labor, if you want good teachers you need to pay good salaries - otherwise many of the best, like you or me or any other talented and skilled labor, will walk and you'll be left with alot of dead wood.

The fact that you admire teachers (you know that three paragraph post where you went on and on..) means exactly jack shit if that admiration doesn't translate into supporting their effort to receive fair compensation.


Oh, I thought wanting to be a teacher, applying, and actively looking into ways to make it happen would have also accounted for something more than just admiration. Or financially and emotionally supporting my wife throughout her masters, using my income to pay for classroom supplies before starting her first teaching job, spending several weekends helping her in her classroom, would also count for more. Maybe it doesn't to you, and that's fine. We can disagree on how much you think I supported her. I would question where you get your information, but whatever.

IMO they are fairly compensated currently. Others in this thread have agreed or disagreed, thus the point of me creating the thread. To spur discussion on a topic I'm interested in.

It isn't just admiration, it's the career path I hope to get on at some point if I can make it happen financially (by effectively taking a year off from my current job to get my masters).

The job market works both ways. Employers need to pay more in a strong economy to entice desired workers to choose them, and when the economy is terrible, employers have much more power because there is a larger pool of unemployed skilled labor. Right now the economy is terrible, therefore a majority of the power is with employers.

#67 UncleBob  

Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:48 AM

I said you are bitter and whiny.

It's true that you almost never say anything bad about Wally World and your corporate masters.

Instead you whine about the government alot. You also sound really bitter when you talk about welfare or government projects for the poor.


Yay - poorly done psychiatric profile from some random guy on the internet with likely no real experience in the field based on his lousy comprehension of a few of my internet ramblings.

Shoot me your PayPal address and I'll send you the two cents that was worth.

So a quick question. Why do you think you need to resort to petty name-calling instead of offering a sound rebuttal?


Welcome to Vs.

#68 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15229 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:59 PM

Oh, I thought wanting to be a teacher, applying, and actively looking into ways to make it happen would have also accounted for something more than just admiration. Or financially and emotionally supporting my wife throughout her masters, using my income to pay for classroom supplies before starting her first teaching job, spending several weekends helping her in her classroom, would also count for more. Maybe it doesn't to you, and that's fine. We can disagree on how much you think I supported her. I would question where you get your information, but whatever.

IMO they are fairly compensated currently. Others in this thread have agreed or disagreed, thus the point of me creating the thread. To spur discussion on a topic I'm interested in.

It isn't just admiration, it's the career path I hope to get on at some point if I can make it happen financially (by effectively taking a year off from my current job to get my masters).

The job market works both ways. Employers need to pay more in a strong economy to entice desired workers to choose them, and when the economy is terrible, employers have much more power because there is a larger pool of unemployed skilled labor. Right now the economy is terrible, therefore a majority of the power is with employers.


Methinks you dost protest too much, like the racist who says "but I have black friends!"

And you asked whether teachers are undercompensated, not about everyone in general.

Most working folks are undercompensated and many white collar folks too - the only people who are uniformly overcompensated are the elite executive class.

A laissez-faire market =/= economic justice. For example - just because you can hire folks for slave wages in China, Philipines, or <enter third-world country here> it doesn't mean they are being fairly compensated, it just means that they don't have any better options.

#69 Clak   Made of star stuff. CAGiversary!   8079 Posts   Joined 10.2 Years Ago  

Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:15 PM

I've known a few teachers, early in their careers, some of them had to work part time jobs just to make ends meet, especially with loan debt from school. So yeah, overpaid bastards.

#70 dmaul1114   Banned Banned   24688 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

dmaul1114

Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

NYT Op-Ed on the value of good teachers.

http://www.nytimes.c...chers.html?_r=1

#71 Soodmeg  

Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:56 AM

Not sure it's anything new. I've never had patience for bitter, whiny people who hate their jobs and talk shit about other professions as a result. Especially someone like Javery who makes six figures as a lawyer and still bitches and moans all the time.

I don't think anyone posting on here was born into a ghetto broken home or anything based on what all the regulars have posted about themselves over the years. So it's pretty safe to say that most (if not all) on here have no one but themselves to blame if they're not happy with their career choices.


I was. :cry:

#72 Urharal  

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