Public Funding For Sports Stadiums

nasum

CAGiversary!
Has this been done here lately?

So the Vikings ownership wants a new playground. This in and of itself isn't much of a problem, but in the last couple of years the Gophers got a new football stadium on campus and the Twins got the new place as well. This all of 7 years after the Wild got a building and while the Timberwolves are hinting at either a massive rennovation or a new building.

Essentially, in the span of a decade 5 of the 6 major sports deals in town (gopher hockey seems fine in their building) either received a new building (with subsidies) or want a new one and demand subsidies.

Hockey makes more sense since it can be used so much. 41 home games during the regular season plus any pre-season and post-season games. That's an average of once a week if you get into the 1st round of the playoffs. Throw in the 20-25 concerts per year, high school hockey tournaments and other events and you're looking at an average use of 2.5-3 days per week. Plus we hosted the all-star game the 2nd year the place was open.

The basketball place gets about the same amount of activity but the building is 1992 neon vomit.

The baseball place gets a lot of use during the season but not much outside of that. I'd say that place gets used 1.5-2 days per week averaged out over the year. Rumour has it that if the Wild make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs the Twins stadium may get a Winter Classic from the NHL. I will go at any cost.

Football though. That's maybe 15 times a year for actual football, make it 20 with high school tournies, and another 10-15 for events.

So the Wilf's want nearly half a billion in state money for a building that get's used less than one day a week on average throughout the year.

That seems absolutely astonishing.

Aren't the 49ers going to build a stadium within the next couple of years that's almost 100% privately financed? What do they know that the Vikings don't?
 
Yeah, I'm not a fan of it at all. As you note it's ok for hockey/basketball arenas as they're used a ton with the long seasons those sports have (and most cities using one areana for both sports) and the ease of using the venues for concerts etc. So the city can make a ton of money off those in sales tax revenue etc.

Football just doesn't work that way as they just can't have as many events. Those should be privately financed. And any public funding that's involved should be loans repaid with interest. That way the city keeps the team there and makes some money in the process.
 
Because owner can just take your team and move it to another city. Oh and they will take your team history with them as well.
 
If they can afford to pay athletes miillions or tens of millions of dollars a year, and they charge 10-100$ for tickets, plus all the merchandising, they can afford to build their own stadium. (I know not all that money goes to the team/owners, but still.)
 
I'm a huge sports fan... but, I think that public funding of stadiums is bogus... if a team wants to leave, so be it... I've learned with the Rams and Raiders that its not so bad! An analogy would be someone threatening to leave a relationship unless she gets something she wants... in that case, it's probably best for both parties to break off the relationship...
 
It's bullcrap. And the entire argument that the sports teams bring in tax dollars is bullcrap as well. The government shouldn't be spending tax dollars on such things. Just like they shouldn't be offering free utilities, special rates on property taxes, etc., etc. in order to get a business in. It provides an unfair advantage to the new business while setting a very bad precedent for any other businesses looking to locate.
 
What pisses me off about it is if San Francisco can do it with the Giants, more teams should be able to take the onus and do it themselves. People may shit on Barry Bonds all they want, but no one in the past half century can say that they put enough asses in seats to have owners actually pay for a new stadium out of their own pocket and keep a team in that city.
 
[quote name='vherub']op-
if you can, grab a copy of this book from your local library
http://www.amazon.com/Public-Dollars-Private-Stadiums-Building/dp/0813533430/

Another great read is Field of Schemes. I'm surprised that the lunacy of publicly financed stadiums continues as much as ever.[/QUOTE]

High Stakes is another good read, about how two stadiums in Columbus changed *remarkably* when the companies behind them (ownership of the Columbus Blue Jackets and Columbus Crew) realized the city was not going to subsidize their buildings:
http://www.amazon.com/High-Stakes-D...1250/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326285903&sr=8-1

The Crew, an MLS team, initially requested a retractable roof (something few Premier Leagues even have) when they brought the proposal to the city. An MLS team!

At any rate, it still happens because people have emotional affinity for their teams, and tend to not think rationally. Many people do believe that it has huge economic benefits, and no amount of proof will convince them otherwise. Evidently, social scientists showing that we're wasting money by using public money for the benefit of someone else (a sports team), and that they should pay for that shit themselves, makes the authors...umm...biased socialist liberals? No, really.

*sigh*.

There's also an element of fear, I feel. People will cite the very few times that teams did leave the city because the public wouldn't publicize their costs and allow them to privatize their profits. Umm...Seattle Sonics moving to OKC? That's all I can think of. In an ideal world, the public would universally say "you want us to what? ok lol j/k." and the team would then build a stadium in the best market (e.g., why Quebec City has never been able to sustain an NHL team, also what happened w/ Atlanta Thrashers last year). Teams moving would be market based, not crybaby "you won't pay my bills no more so I'm leaving" based. - point being, people who might think rationally on this issue will let emotional affinity for the team blend with fear over the team actually leaving, and then express a willingness to take a hit in their taxes so the team won't leave. They accept the terms of the relationship, even if it is not to their benefit. They retain knowledge that the issue is not financially viable, but rationalize it away in their case. Cognitive Resonance complete. Senate stinks, but it's not my Senator, it's the rest of them.

There is one area where this has not been explored - rural vs urban. Urban areas derive no financial benefit if they pay for stadiums (best case scenario is to break even). However, rural areas have fought hard to give tax subsidies to sports stadiums (namely NASCAR tracks - it's not that they appeal to a largely rural demographic, but that they take up a LOT of space and an astonishingly huge appetite for parking (if you've ever been to such an event you know how bad it can get). So cities aren't ideal for these stadiums. Anyway, they are placed in easily accessible but previously rural farmland, and then shit builds up. Hotels, restaurants, etc. - providing jobs where previously only farming and the local dairy whip were viable options. That gap remains underexplored in economic research, IMO. It has bigger upsides than city stadiums, but also a greater risk (assume that it is a bust in attracting events, and you're on the hook for a hundred-million-dollar liability in a surely limited tax-base area).

Also, having seen the University of Michigan and Ohio State University stadiums up close, it only fuels my desire to abolish college sports. fucking disgusting.

In the TC, I'll always have a soft spot for The Legendary Roy Wilkins Auditorium. Not that there's room for hockey there, but I just wanted to mention that.
 
Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. People love sports and don't want their teams to leave so vote in support of public funding for stadiums out of that fear that they'll leave.

Their have been more cases of teams moving than you list though. I'm not sure all where due to stadium disputes, but I think most where.

Off the top of my head:

Colts leaving Baltimore for Indianapolis
Washington Senators leaving DC two different times (Minnesota and Texas)
Expos leaving Montreal for DC
Raiders leaving Oakland for LA, then leaving LA for Oakland
Rams leaving LA for St. Louis
Braves moving from Boston to Milwaukee, and then to Atlanta
Charlotte Hornets leaving for New Orleans
Sonics leaving Seattle for OKC
Thrashers leaving Atlanta for Winnipeg (seem to recall more in hockey, but I don't follow that sport).

So it's still fairly rare, but it is a legitimate threat. However, a lot of the cities that lost teams got teams back. Sometimes it was a long wait like Baltimore after the Colts left, sometimes not all that long like Charlotte getting the Bobcats after the Hornets left. Some are still waiting like LA being without NFL football for a long time now.


As for the college sport stadiums, the huge stadiums at places like OSU and Michigan are poor examples as those are top programs that make multi-million dollar profits every year. The problem with college sports is that it's only the top 20-30 programs in football and men's basketball that consistently turn a profit or break even. Sports aren't a financial problem at those places, but they are at the vast majority of schools that are losing tons of money on sports.

They just need to change the rule so every sports program has to be self sufficient. Athletic departments shouldn't be allowed to operated in the red. But that will be hard to do unless title XI is repealed. Especially at smaller schools, it's hard to break even when the men's sports have to generate enough revenue to cover the women's sports that lose money as hardly anyone is paying to go to their events, donating to those programs etc.
 
How many of those moves are stadium-based? I knew the Colts left (christ, will we ever hear the end of it?), but I don't recall that being over a stadium or other subsidy.

You and the rest of Atlanta don't follow hockey, friend. That's why there are Winnipeg Jets again this year.

;)
 
Minnesota seems to be a hard place to run a sports team, unless it's hockey. To compare the Vikings' situation to San Francisco would be unfair. Also, apparently the Vikings signed some terrible lease on what is a large domed stadium, that acts as a pretty big money drain.

As for public funding, apparently someone thinks it's worth it to pay for it, although as UncleBob said, it does set a very bad precedent. It's hard to quantify how much a sports team affects growth for the entire city.


[quote name='nasum']
The baseball place gets a lot of use during the season but not much outside of that. I'd say that place gets used 1.5-2 days per week averaged out over the year.

[/QUOTE]

That would be impossible since a baseball season takes up about half of a year in the first place, unless you were going by hours or something.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']How many of those moves are stadium-based? I knew the Colts left (christ, will we ever hear the end of it?), but I don't recall that being over a stadium or other subsidy.

You and the rest of Atlanta don't follow hockey, friend. That's why there are Winnipeg Jets again this year.

;)[/QUOTE]


Yeah, there wasn't much uproar over the Thrashers leaving really.

And the colts did apparently leave over stadium issues.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_the_did_the_Baltimore_Colts_leave_Baltimore

I think most of those were over stadium issues, but don't have the time/interest to look them up individual.

The bigger point is that teams moving has happened often enough (regardless of reason) that teams do have power when they threaten to move if they don't get a new stadium. Shows it's not a bluff as plenty of teams have moved in the past and owners don't care about anything about what city can give them the best return on their investment.
 
[quote name='Sol_Blade']
That would be impossible since a baseball season takes up about half of a year in the first place, unless you were going by hours or something.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, baseball is unique with their super long season. With a 162 game slate, that means 81 home games per year, plus any post season games.

Compared to 41 home games in the NBA and 8 in the NFL. Baseball is the one sport where the sports usage itself is enough to make the stadium a big money maker as that's a lot of games for people to be paying for parking near the stadium, visiting fans occupying hotels, fans eating at restaurants near the stadium before the game, drinking at bars nearby afterwards etc.
 
As many have said it's almost always a bad idea. Unless, you are planning on developing an underdeveloped area with the stadium being the centerpiece.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']How many of those moves are stadium-based? I knew the Colts left (christ, will we ever hear the end of it?), but I don't recall that being over a stadium or other subsidy.

You and the rest of Atlanta don't follow hockey, friend. That's why there are Winnipeg Jets again this year.

;)[/QUOTE]
I've never understood why we have the Predators, this can't be a big hockey town. Hockey seems to be popular in areas where it is cold and one can actually play hockey.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
In the TC, I'll always have a soft spot for The Legendary Roy Wilkins Auditorium. Not that there's room for hockey there, but I just wanted to mention that.[/QUOTE]

I've seen Slayer there more times than I can count and it's always fantastic... Only better show was at First Ave on that punk covers tour. Even the stairs were a fucking human cuisinart. While the mosh pit could be considered jovial violence, that's one of the few times I've ever feared for my life. It was just absolute insanity.

It's hard to argue against the "bring in business" deal since the area around the Wild arena was desolate during the lockout. To simply state that a stadium or field or arena or what have you isn't economically beneficial is flatout wrong. I mean really, you're putting 15-60,000 people into an area that otherwise wouldn't be there. At least 5% will probably want a sandwhich and a beer.

Atlanta had hockey because Gary Bettman is a god damned fool. The only teams below the mason dixon line that ever had a decent draw were the Panthers and Lightning during their cup runs. Carolina follows this rule as well and to some extent all of the CA teams as well.
 
[quote name='nasum']I've seen Slayer there more times than I can count and it's always fantastic... Only better show was at First Ave on that punk covers tour. Even the stairs were a fucking human cuisinart. While the mosh pit could be considered jovial violence, that's one of the few times I've ever feared for my life. It was just absolute insanity.

It's hard to argue against the "bring in business" deal since the area around the Wild arena was desolate during the lockout. To simply state that a stadium or field or arena or what have you isn't economically beneficial is flatout wrong. I mean really, you're putting 15-60,000 people into an area that otherwise wouldn't be there. At least 5% will probably want a sandwhich and a beer.
[/QUOTE]

The problem is none of that really applies when you're just building a new stadium to replace the old one.

If it's built near the old one, then you're not bringing business to a new area.

If you build it somewhere else in the city/metro area, then businesses will leave the area near the old stadium as their business will decline dramatically. So you're just moving business centers around, rather than creating new business.

But the teams really have them by the balls as if they move to a new city then the businesses around the stadium go under and new business is not created anywhere else in the city/metro area, so it's a net loss.
 
It's one of those situations where if no one did it, it wouldn't be a big deal. As soon as that first area starts offering free money to attempt to entice a team into coming to the area, then, everyone has to in order to stay on even ground.

It's like money and politics. Companies have to give money to politicians because all the other companies do it and if they don't, the other companies will have an advantage. Politicians have to pander to companies for donations or those companies will give their money to other candidates, giving them the advantage.

It's a no-win situation.
 
[quote name='nasum']I've seen Slayer there more times than I can count and it's always fantastic... Only better show was at First Ave on that punk covers tour. Even the stairs were a fucking human cuisinart. While the mosh pit could be considered jovial violence, that's one of the few times I've ever feared for my life. It was just absolute insanity.[/quote]

I'm rather shocked that nobody fell off the balcony and paralyzed themselves. That sounds like an awesome venue for Slayer.

It's hard to argue against the "bring in business" deal since the area around the Wild arena was desolate during the lockout. To simply state that a stadium or field or arena or what have you isn't economically beneficial is flatout wrong. I mean really, you're putting 15-60,000 people into an area that otherwise wouldn't be there. At least 5% will probably want a sandwhich and a beer.

That's not quite the argument, though. Nobody is saying teams *don't* bring in business, but teams have frequently fooled taxpayers and politicians into thinking that a bigger stadium will bring in *more* people and thus *more* money. All that "make the pie bigger" nonsense. dmaul more or less got at it.

Atlanta had hockey because Gary Bettman is a god damned fool. The only teams below the mason dixon line that ever had a decent draw were the Panthers and Lightning during their cup runs. Carolina follows this rule as well and to some extent all of the CA teams as well.

I agree on Bettman being a fool, but for other reasons. He's been trying to expand into non-hockey markets, which isn't a bad idea. But he's trying to do too much too quickly. The Super Bowl didn't turn into the shitshow it is today until the mid-1980's (thanks in part to Apple Computer).

But, yeah, it wounds me greivously when stubhub alerts tell me I could have purchased tickets for last night's Flyers-Hurricanes game for $6, and I've never seen anything below $35-40 for Flyers' home games. I did drop a bit of scratch to go to this year's Winter Classic Alumni Game, however - *so* fucking worth it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
That's not quite the argument, though. Nobody is saying teams *don't* bring in business, but teams have frequently fooled taxpayers and politicians into thinking that a bigger stadium will bring in *more* people and thus *more* money. All that "make the pie bigger" nonsense. dmaul more or less got at it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I didn't get directly into that as I don't think cities actually fall for that.

They know it's not really going to expand the pie. They give in as they don't want the team to leave and take the existing pie to another city.

Teams just have cities by the balls on that front as there are still plenty of big cities out there without pro teams. NFL teams especially have leverage since LA has long been without a team and is the 2nd largest media market after NYC.
 
Relocation is an interesting topic... a lot of times it comes down to the idiosyncrasies and personality disorders of the owners (e.g., Al Davis and Georgia Frontiere). Profit motive is there too... Georgia got a publicly financed stadium and a pot of money from St. Louis... the Rams had a brief great run from '99 to the early 2000s, but have otherwise pretty much sucked... I wonder if St. Louis made money on the deal?

The Rams could get out of their lease after 2014 (because their stadium is not up to snuff), so this could be interesting. There have been some recent stories about a relocation possibility.
-Kroenke, their owner, is a Missouri guy, so I doubt that he wants to move.
-Economic factors may force his hand; LA is a safer market with more corporate money, a much higher population, and a higher median income than St. Louis (would be safer during our upcoming economic downturn).
-On the other hand, he would have to deal with the morons who run our state and who run LA... if I were him, I would stay far away! :D
-In either case, LA is a great bargaining chip for the Rams organization... they have St. Louis by the balls... even with their 2-14 record and painfully boring/unwatchable football (this is coming from a Rams fan!)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I agree on Bettman being a fool, but for other reasons. He's been trying to expand into non-hockey markets, which isn't a bad idea. But he's trying to do too much too quickly. The Super Bowl didn't turn into the shitshow it is today until the mid-1980's (thanks in part to Apple Computer).

But, yeah, it wounds me greivously when stubhub alerts tell me I could have purchased tickets for last night's Flyers-Hurricanes game for $6, and I've never seen anything below $35-40 for Flyers' home games. I did drop a bit of scratch to go to this year's Winter Classic Alumni Game, however - *so* fucking worth it.[/QUOTE]

Myke I can't like Hockey, I'm not a New Canadian like you(New Englander/Canadian). I'm an American and to get into Hockey I'd end up having to say I'm half Canadian or gave up my American citzenship to love or like Hockey. ;-P
 
Nashville is becoming a bigger and bigger hockey market every year as, surprise, the team has been getting better.

The Thrashers moved because their owners, the Atlanta Spirit Group, are goddamn idiots who ran the team into the ground.

Ooh, I know, which NHL team that's going to lose $20 million this year and can't pay their debts and is in the bottom third for attendance deserves to move? Phoenix, right? Wrong, I'm talking about the Devils, but you don't hear anyone whining about why don't they just move to Canada.
 
To be fair, in the list of things to dislike about NJ, that's pretty low overall. Sports notwithstanding, the governor is the biggest issue, then their chief export: douchebags.

Point being, yes, not all NHL teams are profitable, and it's inaccurate to say that a simple north/south divide is the explanation for that.

Huh, I didn't know the Predators were competitive. Must be that I hardly follow the Western conference (aside from my west coast friends, who tend to see nothing outside of San Jose and Vancouver). If we staff Bryz in the goal tonight, then you'll get the win. I hope Bobrovsky gets the start.
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']
Ooh, I know, which NHL team that's going to lose $20 million this year and can't pay their debts and is in the bottom third for attendance deserves to move? Phoenix, right? Wrong, I'm talking about the Devils, but you don't hear anyone whining about why don't they just move to Canada.[/QUOTE]

I wish the Devils would move, their fanbase is pathetic. I remember the one year they won the cup, they didn't even have a parade, just a little party in the parking lot. Though it's kinda hard to establish a fanbase when you move a team in the middle of two of the largest fanbases in the NHL.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, I didn't get directly into that as I don't think cities actually fall for that.

They know it's not really going to expand the pie. They give in as they don't want the team to leave and take the existing pie to another city.

Teams just have cities by the balls on that front as there are still plenty of big cities out there without pro teams. NFL teams especially have leverage since LA has long been without a team and is the 2nd largest media market after NYC.[/QUOTE]

Yep, it's pretty much about keeping up the interest for tourist dollars and conventions. In Seattle the Mariners and Seahawks both got new stadiums built in part with city and state money because of the "importance" of having professional sports teams to look awesome.

The Sonics leaving was really more of the new owners wanting to move the team to Oklahoma than anything else.
 
Here's a good article on the subject. I've bolded what I thought were highlights. Check out the doozy in the first one.

Why Do Mayors Love Sports Stadiums?

Neil DeMause
July 27, 2011 | This article appeared in the August 15-22, 2011 edition of The Nation.
http://www.thenation.com/article/162400/why-do-mayors-love-sports-stadiums

On a busy streetcorner in downtown Brooklyn, the steel girders are starting to rise. After a decade of protests by residents (including local celebrities like Steve Buscemi, Jennifer Egan and Jonathan Lethem) and innumerable lawsuits, developer Bruce Ratner’s vision of a new arena to bring the New Jersey Nets basketball team to Brooklyn—with the aid of about $500 million in city and state subsidies—is taking root, with a scheduled opening in September 2012.

Yet Atlantic Yards, as Ratner has dubbed his twenty-two-acre development project on the edge of the bustling neighborhood of Prospect Heights, won’t look much like the image he first unveiled in 2003. The “Miss Brooklyn” office tower, which was supposed to bring jobs to the community, is gone, a victim of the virtual collapse of New York’s commercial real estate market. Meanwhile, the condo towers that were supposed to provide more than 2,250 units of affordable housing are unlikely to be built anytime soon, if at all. (The latest plan involves a “modular” building, akin to stacking shipping containers thirty-four stories high.) The Nets, meanwhile, are spending two seasons playing in Newark’s Prudential Center, another heavily subsidized building ($200 million fronted by taxpayers) that was supposed to revitalize its surrounding neighborhood but that still rests among the same discount stores and fast-food joints that lined Market Street before the arena opened in 2007.

It’s a story that could have been told in almost any American city over the past two decades. Owners of teams in the “big four” sports leagues—the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL—have reaped nearly $20 billion in taxpayer subsidies for new homes since 1990. And for just as long, fans, urban planners and economists have argued that building facilities for private sports teams is a massive waste of public money. As University of Chicago economist Allen Sanderson memorably put it, “If you want to inject money into the local economy, it would be better to drop it from a helicopter than invest it in a new ballpark.” :wall:

Studies demonstrating pro sports stadiums’ slight economic impact go back to 1984, the year Lake Forest College economist Robert Baade examined thirty cities that had recently constructed new facilities. His finding: in twenty-seven of them, there had been no measurable economic impact; in the other three, economic activity appeared to have decreased. Dozens of economists have replicated Baade’s findings, and revealed similar results for what the sports industry calls “mega-events”: Olympics, Super Bowls, NCAA tournaments and the like. (In one study of six Super Bowls, University of South Florida economist Phil Porter found “no measurable impact on spending,” which he attributed to the “crowding out” effect of nonfootball tourists steering clear of town during game week.)

Meanwhile, numerous cities are littered with “downtown catalysts” that have failed to catalyze, from the St. Louis “Ballpark Village,” which was left a muddy vacant lot for years after the neighboring ballpark opened, to the Newark hockey arena sited in the midst of a wasteland of half-shuttered stores.

“Public subsidies for stadiums are a great deal for team owners, league executives, developers, bond attorneys, construction firms, politicians and everyone in the stadium food chain, but a really terrible deal for everyone else,” concludes Frank Rashid, a lifelong Detroit Tigers fan and college English professor. Rashid co-founded the Tiger Stadium Fan Club in 1987, and for the next twelve years he fought an unsuccessful battle against Michigan’s plans to spend $145 million in public funds to replace that historic ballpark. “The case is so clear against this being a top priority for cities to be doing with their resources, I would have thought that wisdom would have prevailed by now.”

Yet the amount of public money being spent on sports facilities continues to rise. According to Harvard urban planner Judith Grant Long, cities, states and counties spent a record $6.5 billion on stadiums and arenas in the 1990s, then shattered that mark the following decade with an additional $10.1 billion—a 31 percent increase after accounting for inflation. And that’s not counting hidden subsidies like lease breaks, property tax exemptions and the use of tax-exempt government bonds, which Long estimates have added at least another 10 percent to the public’s tab.

Why do new sports facilities have such a hold on local elected officials? The simplest explanation is fear: because team owners can choose new cities but cities can’t choose new teams—thanks to the leagues’ government-sanctioned monopolies over franchise placement—mayors feel they must offer owners anything they want. “Politicians continue to believe that it would be political disaster to lose a team on their watch,” Baade says.

Actually losing a team, though, is extremely rare. Most team owners prefer to keep plugging for new stadiums in their hometowns even after their bluff has been called. Florida Marlins president David Samson first declared in 2004 that a new stadium bill “has to happen in the next week. And if not, we’ll move on.” He repeated similar threats for four years, until the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County finally agreed to kick in more than $478 million for a new stadium with a retractable roof.

Similarly, after successfully using relocation threats to get the city of Pittsburgh to help fund a new hockey arena, Penguins owner and NHL legend Mario Lemieux admitted, “Our goal was to remain here in Pittsburgh all the way. Those trips to Kansas City and Vegas and other cities was just to go, and have a nice dinner and come back…. That was just a way for us to put more pressure, and we knew it would work at the end of the day.” (It’s also worth noting that even in those few cities where teams have moved, no local elected official has yet been voted out of office as a result. A Wisconsin state senator who cast the deciding vote for a new Brewers stadium in 1995 did, however, become his state’s first legislator to be recalled by voters.)

There are other theories that explain local officials’ enduring love for sports facilities. The “edifice complex” predisposes them to build big, shiny structures—which can display a plaque bearing your name more easily than, say, reduced kindergarten class sizes. Then there are the perks that accrue to those who befriend team owners, like getting to throw the first pitch or entertain donors in your own luxury box.

For politicians eager to embrace sports deals, it’s easy to find consulting firms willing to produce glowing “economic impact studies”—even though sports economists nearly unanimously dismiss them as hogwash. For example: Economic Research Associates told the city of Arlington, Texas, that spending $325 million on a new stadium for billionaire oil baron Jerry Jones’s Dallas Cowboys would generate $238 million a year in economic activity. Critics immediately pointed out that this merely totaled up all spending that would take place in and around the stadium. Hidden deep in the report was the more meaningful estimate that Arlington would see just $1.8 million a year in new tax revenues while spending $20 million a year on stadium subsidies.

Jeanette Mott Oxford, who was an antisubsidy activist before being elected a Missouri state representative, says it’s easy for her colleagues to be distracted with flashy claims. “Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that elected officials are much into evidence-based decision-making,” she explains. “Folks believe the threat that jobs will be lost, that somehow the team will move. Then there’s the civic pride element around the status of having a team. I think that too often, those motivate people no matter what the evidence says.”

Outright manipulation also plays a role. As Kevin Delaney and Rick Eckstein discovered while researching their book Public Dollars, Private Stadiums, cities were far more likely to approve subsidy deals if they had strong “growth coalitions” of local political and business leaders spearheading campaigns on the owners’ behalf. Explains Delaney, “That can then keep the team owner more in the background, so they’re not getting so smacked with the idea that this is some kind of corporate welfare.”

Business leaders have also been known to donate to local political campaigns, of course. Yet even stadium critics in local government say that the sway provided by corporate pressure is not simply a matter of buying votes. For my book Field of Schemes, I asked Minnesota State Senator John Marty about how the Twins ownership had persuaded the state legislature to approve about $387 million in public stadium funds after more than ten years of repeated rejections. “One of the lobbying efforts that’s very effective is, ‘The only way this issue will ever go away is if we pass it,’” explained Marty. But more than that, he noted, the ubiquitous presence of lobbyists helped legislators dismiss polls that consistently showed two-thirds of Minnesotans opposed stadium subsidies. “Because of lobbying, most legislators don’t believe that: ‘This may be true statewide, but not in my district.’” The main impact of the lobbying, insisted Marty, was less to change minds than to provide political cover. “It warps our perspective of what’s going on in the world,” he said.

Even where elected officials have gotten smarter about rejecting subsidies, the sports industry is increasingly outmaneuvering them. Twenty years ago, most sports subsidies came in the form of straight cash giveaways for construction costs. Today, they are more likely to arrive via tax breaks, free land, government-subsidized tax-free loans, or discounts to offset operating and maintenance costs. When Long looked at these hidden subsidies, she found that they added an average of 40 percent to sports facilities’ public sticker price. The most notable examples are the new stadiums for the Yankees and Mets, which opened in New York City in 2009. The team owners promised to pay all $1.7 billion in construction costs—but it was later revealed that they were collecting a combined $1.8 billion in lease and tax breaks against the outlays.

Jim Nagourney, who spent three decades negotiating stadium deals on behalf of government agencies and team owners, describes how he helped snooker city officials as a consultant to the Los Angeles Rams, who were then negotiating a move to a new stadium in St. Louis. “We had a whiteboard, and we’re putting stuff down” to demand in a stadium lease, he recalls. “I said, ‘Guys, some of this is crazy.’ And John Shaw, who was president of the Rams at the time—brilliant, brilliant guy—said, ‘They can always say no. Let’s ask for it.’” The result, which Nagourney calls “probably the most scandalous deal in the country,” included a clause requiring the new stadium to remain “state-of-the-art,” or else the team could break its lease and leave. “The city was poorly represented—the city is always poorly represented…. We put in all of these ridiculous things, and the city didn’t have the sense to say no to any of them.”

The reason this dynamic recurs is simple, Nagourney says: cities rely on in-house legal teams to negotiate stadium deals. “A city attorney is not going to know where the money really is. They’re not going to understand advertising, they’re not going to understand concessions—just a whole range of issues that the team officials intimately understand. They know where the dollars are, and the municipal attorneys do not.”

Despite recession-strapped state budgets and the fact that most teams occupy homes that are less than twenty years old, there appears to be no end in sight to the stadium-subsidy game. Teams that have recently received new stadiums have begun to go around to the back of the line for still newer ones. Latest on the list are the Atlanta Falcons (housed in the Georgia Dome, built in 1992 for $214 million in state money) and the St. Louis Rams (in the Edward Jones Dome, opened in 1995 for $280 million). The Rams are threatening to use Shaw’s “state-of-the-art” clause to move if they don’t get their way.

For Baade, the only answer is for local elected officials to start standing up and saying no to all demands for sports subsidies. “I think cities need to band together and say, Look, we’ve got some countervailing power, we’re simply not going to compete with one another for a professional sports presence.” (A bill briefly proposed by US Representative David Minge in the late 1990s would have forced localities to end the “economic war among the states,” as a Minneapolis Federal Reserve vice president called it, by slapping an excise tax on any subsidies designed to benefit individual corporations; the legislation died without a whimper.) “If they do that, then pro sports leagues that hold the ultimate negotiating card—‘We’re going to leave if you don’t give us what we want’—will have no place to go.”

But, he admits, “I think that’s a long way off.”


Here's a video clip The Nation linked to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_hvq5INvrU
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Nashville is becoming a bigger and bigger hockey market every year as, surprise, the team has been getting better.

The Thrashers moved because their owners, the Atlanta Spirit Group, are goddamn idiots who ran the team into the ground.

Ooh, I know, which NHL team that's going to lose $20 million this year and can't pay their debts and is in the bottom third for attendance deserves to move? Phoenix, right? Wrong, I'm talking about the Devils, but you don't hear anyone whining about why don't they just move to Canada.[/QUOTE]
And it still blows my mind. Before the Preds I never would have thought Nashville could sustain a hockey team of all things.
 
The Devils can stay because they'll eventually crawl out of debt, especially if the green breezers come back! Part of the problem is that NJ sucks in general.

So our Governor decided that any stadium plan that would get discussed in the next legislative session needed to be on his desk by Thursday last week. One was the preferred deal for the Vikings which was located about 30 miles north of the cities with little to no freeway access. Another is to rebuild on the current dome site (the team owner doesn't like this because he can't build in the area and become a real estate mogul). The final one that received consideration was on the other side of the freeway from The Basilica of St. Mary. Even as a heretic I have to give a big F-U to that idea.

Looks like it's going to be at the metrodome site. Bummer about that is during the winter Rollerblade rents the place and let's you skate in the concourses for $6. The notion is that the new place will take three years from tearing down the current metrodome and building a new stadium. Three years of me not skating during the winter. Yay for getting fat!
 
Ugh, by the sculpture garden? A stadium there would totally fuck up that area. Motherfuckers be tailgatin' on Spoon Bridge and Cherry and shit.
 
The Maloofs have been playing this game for ages with the Sacramento Kings. They really want public funding for a new arena and have repeatedly dropped hints of moving the team to Vegas or Anaheim. They know they're the only show in town and as a small market it would be really hard if not implausible for another team to ever resurface. However at the same time it has been a shitacular team as of late and hard to get behind.

I am not a fan of building stadiums on taxpayer money especially when it's a request of a sports team. If you really think it's a good business venture, you could find all the financiers to invest without having to ask local citizens to throw in their dimes.
 
It really is a lose-lose for cities. Now that the Super Bowl festivities are in full swing, you really see how the little man gets screwed so the rich can play. Parking is going for up to $60, bus lines have been radically re-routed, and IUPUI was politely told by the city and state to shut down classes for over a week.

In the end, nobody will decide to move here because of their "great" experience of waiting six hours to ride the country's longest temporary zip line. Fortune 500 companies won't flock here even though "My Man" Mitch will allow you to pollute air, land, and water with little regard to the people and animals that live here.

We built a cathedral to football even though the popularity of the Colts hinged on one player. In a week, we'll be left with a colossal mess and a good chance that Peyton will never wear a Colts jersey again. Now what?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Ugh, by the sculpture garden? A stadium there would totally fuck up that area. Motherfuckers be tailgatin' on Spoon Bridge and Cherry and shit.[/QUOTE]

I think it was north of that, NW of the Basilica whereas the Walker & Penetration Park are SW.
 
[quote name='depascal22']It really is a lose-lose for cities. Now that the Super Bowl festivities are in full swing, you really see how the little man gets screwed so the rich can play. Parking is going for up to $60, bus lines have been radically re-routed, and IUPUI was politely told by the city and state to shut down classes for over a week.

In the end, nobody will decide to move here because of their "great" experience of waiting six hours to ride the country's longest temporary zip line. Fortune 500 companies won't flock here even though "My Man" Mitch will allow you to pollute air, land, and water with little regard to the people and animals that live here.

We built a cathedral to football even though the popularity of the Colts hinged on one player. In a week, we'll be left with a colossal mess and a good chance that Peyton will never wear a Colts jersey again. Now what?[/QUOTE]

At least you didn't get the Olympics, the 2004 games are largely responsible for the complete financial meltdown in Greece
 
Looks like the final estimates are that the CIB will lose 1 million after it's all said and done.

Walking around Super Bowl Village, the vast majority of people are wearing Colts gear. What does that mean? It means we didn't get the huge influx of out-of-staters (and their dollars) that was promised by the Committee. It means that dollars were funneled from the surrounding counties into downtown. Somehow we paid one million dollars to move money from the doughnut counties to the very small downtown area.
 
I hate the fact that my taxes raise to pay for a stadium (Lucas Oil) that I will never go to. I'm not rich, I don't like football, why should I have to invest in that? Raise the ticket prices, or heck, make a players tax for all I care, that would make more sense. Everytime those big money ballers step foot in a stadium they should have to pay for it, lord knows if they did it that way then it would be paid off quicker or even at all.

When they built Lucas Oil, they tore down the RCA dome, which was built in 84' and still wasn't paid for. That's so dumb. And we will continue to pay for that, and the new one...GTFO. ticks me off...
 
bread's done
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