Ok, I gotta rant here...

Am I the only one who's sick of seeing douchebags wrapping over or taping over Priority Mail boxes? Am I the only one who's worried about what will happen if the USPS is shut down?

Seriously, people, I'll be the first say that the postal service has its share of problems. I've had probably 10 packages lost/damaged by them, but they delivered 1000+ without issue in the 11+ years I've been buying/selling/trading online.

As someone who buys/sells a lot online, the USPS is an insane bargain compared to the private carriers. Every time a CAG bitches about how the USPS lost their package, a circlejerk begins about how much they suck.

But they conveniently forget the premium they pay with private carriers. USPS charges $3 to ship a game... FedEx/UPS starts at ~$12 (go look it up if you don't believe me). Sure the private carriers provide better tracking and are insured up to $100 (good luck with a claim, though that's a universal issue). And the private carries can take much longer because they only operate 5 days a week.

By doing this shit, you're basically saving a few bucks now and will eventually end up paying 3-4x more in the future. Seriously, you can get boxes and shit for free from grocery/retail stores (liquor bottle boxes are damn strong). You can re-use boxes/bubble mailers at least once.

/rant

On a side note, anyone know if there is a way to report the assholes who do this?

Seems like a lot of work to use the priority mail boxes. Even if you turn them inside out priority mail is printed all over them. I prefer just to look homeless and dig through the trash whenever I see good sized boxes for bigger things or consoles.... and for smaller things like DVD sized cases or whatever I just keep a bunch of bubble mailers around. They end up costing like 20 cents each in bulk.

On a side note.. What was I thinking all those years writing out the addresses and going to a post office, or using the automatic machines which still took way too long. Since I picked up a cheap laser printer w/ toner on c-list and a 20 dollar scale on eBay I have saved so much friggin time. All those hours lost.....

I'm assuming that the same type of douchebags that would do the same with FedEx and UPS boxes are in the same class as the ones you mention in the OP?

The only time I've ever bought a box that I needed to ship something in was because it was too odd to put in a normal box, like an umbrella I had to send back to get replaced. Everything else I use I recycle from some other source, and I know I've used hundreds of Amazon boxes over the years to ship items all over the place. Those, plus Fry's, NewEgg and lots of other places from Internet-purchased items.

Not sure why people would have to stoop to using USPS PM boxes covered up. That's ridiculous, OP, and you're right to vent about it.

Ive never done that but really dont see the big issue with it. Maybe the only size box they have that will fit whatever they are shipping happens to be a flat rate box. The only way those boxes are a good deal is if you are mailing rocks in them. So they wrap it up and mail it first class instead. At least they got use out of the box and still paid for USPS service.

If they are using the boxes and going to FedEx/UPS that's kind of foul. If they are still using USPS to ship said boxes then isn't USPS is still getting paid something, at least? A box is still just a box and it costs USPS pennies to paint them red, white and blue. I don't do that, but a box from the post office or a box from the dumpster would be the same to me if I am still going to use USPS' less expensive shipping options anyway.

[quote name='SKEETER']If they are using the boxes and going to FedEx/UPS that's kind of foul. If they are still using USPS to ship said boxes then isn't USPS is still getting paid something, at least? A box is still just a box and it costs USPS pennies to paint them red, white and blue. I don't do that, but a box from the post office or a box from the dumpster would be the same to me if I am still going to use USPS' less expensive shipping options anyway.[/QUOTE]

The cost goes to shipping the item, not subsidizing the cost of the boxes. The priority mail flat-rate subsidizes the cost of the materials. You're literally stealing and breading the law if you use it for other purposes.

I agree too. I've shipped 400+ items through USPS, and I've never had one lost. Media mail and first class are crazy good deals. Sometimes, priority is better than parcel post, which is comparable to UPS ground costs. I'd hate it if USPS went under too.

[quote name='shrike4242']I'm assuming that the same type of douchebags that would do the same with FedEx and UPS boxes are in the same class as the ones you mention in the OP?

The only time I've ever bought a box that I needed to ship something in was because it was too odd to put in a normal box, like an umbrella I had to send back to get replaced. Everything else I use I recycle from some other source, and I know I've used hundreds of Amazon boxes over the years to ship items all over the place. Those, plus Fry's, NewEgg and lots of other places from Internet-purchased items.

Not sure why people would have to stoop to using USPS PM boxes covered up. That's ridiculous, OP, and you're right to vent about it.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing we're in the minority, since a lot of people rip open boxes and throw them out because they're lazy or they don't ship out much. But most of these issues arise with eBay sellers and to my dismay, many people on CAG have begun to do this, a lot of whom are reputable members.

BTW, I thought UPS and FedEx caught on to people re-using their boxes (and labels) and implemented some authorization process (basically giving them out to established businesses)?

[quote name='musha666']Ive never done that but really dont see the big issue with it. Maybe the only size box they have that will fit whatever they are shipping happens to be a flat rate box. The only way those boxes are a good deal is if you are mailing rocks in them. So they wrap it up and mail it first class instead. At least they got use out of the box and still paid for USPS service.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='SKEETER']If they are using the boxes and going to FedEx/UPS that's kind of foul. If they are still using USPS to ship said boxes then isn't USPS is still getting paid something, at least? A box is still just a box and it costs USPS pennies to paint them red, white and blue. I don't do that, but a box from the post office or a box from the dumpster would be the same to me if I am still going to use USPS' less expensive shipping options anyway.[/QUOTE]

These boxes are given out free for Priority Mail use only (it's a federal offense to use them using any other method, even if it's via the USPS).

These are standardized boxes, meaning the USPS saves time and money by not having to complete some processes (weighing, checking dimensions, etc.) during transit. If you use these for first class, they still have to process them normally, they only get $3 instead of $5, and they basically paid for the box out of their pocket.

Do they still get something? Yeah. But if a robber your wallet with $5 in it and the police were only able to recover $3 still leaves you missing out on $2. And your wallet is gone. Now imagine that happening 100 times. Then 1000s. And so on...

I received an inside out priority mail box or envelope or something once. I was surprised the seller pulled that off.

I have a few Priority Mail boxes lying around the house, but they were grabbed thinking I'd ship something in them, but then either I needed a different sized box or just used my own box. I wouldn't use them to flip inside out or paint over or whatever, but I was still wondering what the cost to the USPS is of me having a few boxes I may or may not ever get around to using to ship via Priority Mail.

[quote name='kodave']I received an inside out priority mail box or envelope or something once. I was surprised the seller pulled that off.

I have a few Priority Mail boxes lying around the house, but they were grabbed thinking I'd ship something in them, but then either I needed a different sized box or just used my own box. I wouldn't use them to flip inside out or paint over or whatever, but I was still wondering what the cost to the USPS is of me having a few boxes I may or may not ever get around to using to ship via Priority Mail.[/QUOTE]

I think you can technically hoard a billion of those boxes without breaking a law, but once you use one for anything other than priority mail... (IANAL)

Ive noticed that ebay sellers are cutting them up and using them as backing board for there packages. Anyone else seen this happen

i've never had a problem with the USPS. im very satisfied with their service.

[quote name='Vinny']I'm guessing we're in the minority, since a lot of people rip open boxes and throw them out because they're lazy or they don't ship out much.[/QUOTE]

I keep everything when something is shipped to me. I have a full shipping workshop in my closet saved up from all the boxes of packing peanuts, bubble wrap, boxes, padded envelopes, etc. I only toss out ones that are beyond repair, like crushed/ripped during shipping to me, but otherwise, there's no point tossing things I can actually use, out.

Personally though, with all the things I order, I've probably only had one package that was a disguised priority mail box. Like it's really hard to just get a box from somewhere if you're really in need. People are just lazy I guess. =\

Never had a problem with the post office here, the workers are extremely friendly to me because I am there a lot, and also my packages make it on time. I put DC on everything so that if the buyers try to claim something isn't delivered I have proof and I have never had a problem with a seller claiming that an item did not come.

usps ftw!! ...but I have used a 'flipped' usps priority box and sent thru regular mail. once.... maybe twice....

[quote name='DurbanBrown']usps ftw!! ...but I have used a 'flipped' usps priority box and sent thru regular mail. once.... maybe twice....[/QUOTE]

Lock him up, for life!

I think if the box was used for the Priority Service once, people should be in the clear for recycling / reusing them for whatever purposes. It's not like the American flag where soldiers need to be present to make sure it is disposed of properly; it's a friggin' cardboard box.

[quote name='Indigo_Streetlight']I think if the box was used for the Priority Service once, people should be in the clear for recycling / reusing them for whatever purposes. It's not like the American flag where soldiers need to be present to make sure it is disposed of properly; it's a friggin' cardboard box.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this is one area that's open for debate. The USPS does NOT allow people to reuse Priority boxes once they've been used for Priority Mail once, which is baffling. I would guess this is because it's easy to make a box look used (use tape to "rip off" the postage and label area, and then say you ripped them off).

[quote name='Vinny']I'm guessing we're in the minority, since a lot of people rip open boxes and throw them out because they're lazy or they don't ship out much. But most of these issues arise with eBay sellers and to my dismay, many people on CAG have begun to do this, a lot of whom are reputable members.

BTW, I thought UPS and FedEx caught on to people re-using their boxes (and labels) and implemented some authorization process (basically giving them out to established businesses)?[/QUOTE]I tend to hold onto most boxes I get, though every so often, I do have to dispose of some of the extras because there's a finite amount of space to hold it all.

I think people think that the boxes are free, so there's no need to stick them to being used for priority mail shipments. I know the older boxes they used to provide were completely clean on the inside, though newer flat-rate boxes have some warning on the inside of the box that it needs to be used for priority mail shipping or that they can't be turned inside out.

Between free boxes from retail stores, grocery stores and received online shipments, I can't see why anyone would want to use an USPS flat-rate box, UPS box or FedEx box for a shipment means they're not required to do.

For FedEx boxes, you'd need to pick them up from a FedEx Kinko's, which picking up one or two wouldn't raise an eyebrow, as long as you said you needed to pack up the package at home. I'm sure doing that a few times would get some questions raised. Getting them en-masse requires ordering them directly from FedEx and a FedEx account number. I'd assume UPS is the same way.

[quote name='Squarehard']I keep everything when something is shipped to me. I have a full shipping workshop in my closet saved up from all the boxes of packing peanuts, bubble wrap, boxes, padded envelopes, etc. I only toss out ones that are beyond repair, like crushed/ripped during shipping to me, but otherwise, there's no point tossing things I can actually use, out.

Personally though, with all the things I order, I've probably only had one package that was a disguised priority mail box. Like it's really hard to just get a box from somewhere if you're really in need. People are just lazy I guess. =\[/QUOTE]Same here with the shipping workshop. Recycling them is cheaper for me and better for the environment.

having the boxes and the ads literally in your face at every USPS store/location is just for marketing. when you start to see these everytime you go, you're tempted everytime to use the service. it works for them and yeah, they do lose money because people decides to use them for other purposes. as someone who ships hundreds of packages each month, if you actually calculate the amount of postage and the supplies you use, its pretty much the same. the only difference is what vinny mentioned: its pretty much the best bang for your buck.

but with that said, it is sad that people often use priority mail boxes and supplies for their own needs other than using it as youre supposed to. here in new york city, its even worse when kids use the stickers to draw graffiti on them and spread them out through the city. small business are also using the boxes to ship their goods from store to store (using it as a an everyday box), etc. the other day i was at the thrift store and the store was selling priority mail boxes. maybe someone donated the boxes and they didnt know they're free and not supposed to sell them? who knows.

USPS loses money every year. Last year it was 5 billion. An insignificant minority has to do with what you are taking about in this thread. The majority of it has to do with workers pay, pension, all the Unionized bs. The other part of them losing money is due to mainly first class mail. What used to be mailed out (bills, cards, letters, etc) are now mostly done online. If 50 million people had to send out 5 items a month via first class, but now only 65 percent of the 50 million is sending out mail because they don't use the Internet, how much money do you think the post office is losing? And the number keeps dropping more and more every year. Not to mention USPS overpaid about 60 billion in pensions last year. I'm too tired to continue my rant, I've been up for 30 hours.. I'm not even going to reread what I wrote to see if I made any sense, hahaha.

[quote name='aTaRiFrEaK223']I'm too tired to continue my rant, I've been up for 30 hours.. I'm not even going to reread what I wrote to see if I made any sense, hahaha.[/QUOTE]

No, it makes sense. But stealing a candy bar is less serious than stealing a car, but it doesn't justify the candy bar. Yes, we're talking about the candy bar in this case.

A huge part really is just first class mail. Let's just say 50 million households, 5 bills a month each. That's about $50 a year per household (5 bills sent to you, 5 checks sent out). That alone is like $2.5 billion a year.

[quote name='aTaRiFrEaK223']USPS loses money every year. Last year it was 5 billion. An insignificant minority has to do with what you are taking about in this thread. The majority of it has to do with workers pay, pension, all the Unionized bs. The other part of them losing money is due to mainly first class mail. What used to be mailed out (bills, cards, letters, etc) are now mostly done online. If 50 million people had to send out 5 items a month via first class, but now only 65 percent of the 50 million is sending out mail because they don't use the Internet, how much money do you think the post office is losing? And the number keeps dropping more and more every year. Not to mention USPS overpaid about 60 billion in pensions last year. I'm too tired to continue my rant, I've been up for 30 hours.. I'm not even going to reread what I wrote to see if I made any sense, hahaha.[/QUOTE]

How about all the money that's lost on subsidizing bulk corporate mail like credit card offers? I think Capital One should have to pay the same rates at the rest of us, either that or maybe they should get their asses online and stop clogging physical mailboxes...

I do think that the whole thing about the USPS losing money is a made-up problem anyhow, so what if less people are buying 44-cent stamps; how much do they make back on mail-order business from ebay and amazon? I spent almost $50 this week on USPS shipping, with probably $10 of that being extra services (almost 100% profit for them).

[quote name='Vinny']
These boxes are given out free for Priority Mail use only (it's a federal offense to use them using any other method, even if it's via the USPS).

These are standardized boxes, meaning the USPS saves time and money by not having to complete some processes (weighing, checking dimensions, etc.) during transit. If you use these for first class, they still have to process them normally, they only get $3 instead of $5, and they basically paid for the box out of their pocket.

Do they still get something? Yeah. But if a robber your wallet with $5 in it and the police were only able to recover $3 still leaves you missing out on $2. And your wallet is gone. Now imagine that happening 100 times. Then 1000s. And so on...[/QUOTE]

There is a problem with this argument. What if you do business with say, a bank. You have an account with thousands of dollars in it. One day the bank offers you a complementary pen on the condition that you bring it back and deposit another $5 with them. You don't bring it back, okay.

So what is the reasonable thing to say? That the account holder is a criminal fraud-master for taking advantage of the complementary pens? That we should lock him up, regardless of how much he SUPPORTS the institution in question? No, no reasonable person would suggest this.

I believe that they offer the boxes based on the honor system for the sole purpose of ENCOURAGING people to use the Priority Mail services. In the same way that they'll deliver flat rate mailers to one's doorstep at no extra cost. Obviously they must know that there's no way of enforcing that people use these boxes properly--you could bury them, burn them, or just plain not use them (also a sin), so it goes to figure they must have the idea of "losses" factored into their business model.

I'm betting that the only reason the law is there is to give the government recourse against gross abuses, such as people taking thousands of them to build eco-houses, perhaps people found selling them, etc. Otherwise you might as well arrest people for taking too many ketchup packets from a fast food place (say, without buying a combo meal, it's still stealing right?); that would surely go well in court since the employee gave the defendant (customer) permission to take them. How about plastic spoons, what sort of damages would be awarded on those? :lol:

mehhh i use any box i can for the cheapest. I always thought that was normal. Not saying i don't support USPS but I'm not the government that needs to pay extra to bail them out.

If they are losing money let the government bail them out. Buying usps products just to support them sounds a bit foolish. If you think you should be paying extra to support them then put on 2 stamps when only one is needed see how long you keep at it.

[quote name='needler420']If they are losing money let the government bail them out. Buying usps products just to support them sounds a bit foolish. If you think you should be paying extra to support them then put on 2 stamps when only one is needed see how long you keep at it.[/QUOTE]

Huh? No one is saying to do that. Don't use USPS if you want. Just don't use USPS priority/express mail boxes for anything else.

Now here's a good use of flat rate boxes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OckMmNJwq5M&feature=fvwrel

I've also seen a video where some guy made a wall out of them just to smash through them ala Godzilla.#

[quote name='elessar123']Huh? No one is saying to do that. Don't use USPS if you want. Just don't use USPS priority/express mail boxes for anything else.[/QUOTE]


If that's illegal I wouldn't i don't know the law with usps exactly. But if you can use those boxes with another carrier then i would. Or if you cover the box up to reuse with USPS.

Basically the cheapest non illegal route is what i would do.

If the worst thing that can happen is the package comes back to you then id be using those boxes all the time if i had them.

Just turn them inside out or unmark USPS. I doubt that would be illegal. Myabe not within terms of USPS but i wouldn't think its anything criminal.

Then again i don't know for sure.

[quote name='needler420']Just turn them inside out or unmark USPS. I doubt that would be illegal. Myabe not within terms of USPS but i wouldn't think its anything criminal.[/QUOTE]

It is. People have been warned before for reusing boxes that they will be charged for misuse.

[quote name='Indigo_Streetlight']How about all the money that's lost on subsidizing bulk corporate mail like credit card offers? I think Capital One should have to pay the same rates at the rest of us, either that or maybe they should get their asses online and stop clogging physical mailboxes...

I do think that the whole thing about the USPS losing money is a made-up problem anyhow, so what if less people are buying 44-cent stamps; how much do they make back on mail-order business from ebay and amazon? I spent almost $50 this week on USPS shipping, with probably $10 of that being extra services (almost 100% profit for them).[/QUOTE]

USPS really is losing money, in fact, they really have no money.

http://www.federaltimes.com/article/20120318/ADOP06/203180304/1040/ADOP06

[quote name='Indigo_Streetlight']There is a problem with this argument. What if you do business with say, a bank. You have an account with thousands of dollars in it. One day the bank offers you a complementary pen on the condition that you bring it back and deposit another $5 with them. You don't bring it back, okay.

So what is the reasonable thing to say? That the account holder is a criminal fraud-master for taking advantage of the complementary pens? That we should lock him up, regardless of how much he SUPPORTS the institution in question? No, no reasonable person would suggest this.

I believe that they offer the boxes based on the honor system for the sole purpose of ENCOURAGING people to use the Priority Mail services. In the same way that they'll deliver flat rate mailers to one's doorstep at no extra cost. Obviously they must know that there's no way of enforcing that people use these boxes properly--you could bury them, burn them, or just plain not use them (also a sin), so it goes to figure they must have the idea of "losses" factored into their business model.

I'm betting that the only reason the law is there is to give the government recourse against gross abuses, such as people taking thousands of them to build eco-houses, perhaps people found selling them, etc. Otherwise you might as well arrest people for taking too many ketchup packets from a fast food place (say, without buying a combo meal, it's still stealing right?); that would surely go well in court since the employee gave the defendant (customer) permission to take them. How about plastic spoons, what sort of damages would be awarded on those? :lol:[/QUOTE]

The bank situation is not the same. The bank is a for profit organization that makes money off that deposit you made by loaning it out. If they give out a few thousand pens, it probably doesn't matter because they're making 2x much on loan interests (and maybe they'll throw you a few pennies).

The USPS is not-for-profit. If they hand out pens (boxes) that customers never return (use for Priority), then that actually hurts their bottom line.

[quote name='aTaRiFrEaK223']USPS loses money every year. Last year it was 5 billion. An insignificant minority has to do with what you are taking about in this thread. The majority of it has to do with workers pay, pension, all the Unionized bs. The other part of them losing money is due to mainly first class mail. What used to be mailed out (bills, cards, letters, etc) are now mostly done online. If 50 million people had to send out 5 items a month via first class, but now only 65 percent of the 50 million is sending out mail because they don't use the Internet, how much money do you think the post office is losing? And the number keeps dropping more and more every year. Not to mention USPS overpaid about 60 billion in pensions last year. I'm too tired to continue my rant, I've been up for 30 hours.. I'm not even going to reread what I wrote to see if I made any sense, hahaha.[/QUOTE]

Very good points. I think the first class mail thing only applies to letters (junk offers), there's a different class for first class packages. But just as online is slowly killing junk mail, it's also increasing the amount of packages being sent. That's why they're pressing Priority, it's beneficial for both the USPS and the sender.

OP, while i agree with your rant, there are two things you have to understand:

1) people are assholes
2) you'll never be able to convince someone that using Priority Boxes is wrong if they don't think it's wrong in the first place. People will justify everything and anything if they are inclined to.

Seriously, you have people in this thread saying that if you turn it inside out, it's not illegal. That's the type of logic that people will use in order to justify things. "If I put a piece of tape over it, it no longer says Priority Mail so it's not for priority mail anymore! derp." or something like "UPS/USPS/Fedex/whatever makes tons of money, so what if I use one of their boxes?"

[quote name='confoosious']OP, while i agree with your rant, there are two things you have to understand:

1) people are assholes
2) you'll never be able to convince someone that using Priority Boxes is wrong if they don't think it's wrong in the first place. People will justify everything and anything if they are inclined to.

Seriously, you have people in this thread saying that if you turn it inside out, it's not illegal. That's the type of logic that people will use in order to justify things. "If I put a piece of tape over it, it no longer says Priority Mail so it's not for priority mail anymore! derp." or something like "UPS/USPS/Fedex/whatever makes tons of money, so what if I use one of their boxes?"[/QUOTE]

So true... so believably true.

[quote name='confoosious']OP, while i agree with your rant, there are two things you have to understand:

1) people are assholes
2) you'll never be able to convince someone that using Priority Boxes is wrong if they don't think it's wrong in the first place. People will justify everything and anything if they are inclined to.

Seriously, you have people in this thread saying that if you turn it inside out, it's not illegal. That's the type of logic that people will use in order to justify things. "If I put a piece of tape over it, it no longer says Priority Mail so it's not for priority mail anymore! derp." or something like "UPS/USPS/Fedex/whatever makes tons of money, so what if I use one of their boxes?"[/QUOTE]

No different then the people who still think as long as they have one item that qualifies for Media Mail in their shipment then they are entitled to ship all the contents media mail

Or the poeple that think video games qualify for medial mail...

Some people actually don't know. And that's fine. I found out recently that comic books don't qualify for media mail. I had no idea.

It's the people do know, yet try to get around it somehow that are the douches. Is it wrong of me to wish their packages get lost in the mail?

[quote name='GBAstar']No different then the people who still think as long as they have one item that qualifies for Media Mail in their shipment then they are entitled to ship all the contents media mail

Or the poeple that think video games qualify for medial mail...[/QUOTE]

Video games DO qualify for media mail. However for them to qualify those video games have to be.

1. Compact Disc or Digital Versatile Disc form

2. Floppy Diskette Form

Video games that are on cartridges do not qualify for media mail rates. However, if they are in the form stated above, they do qualify for it. However, that line is rather tricky for most people since some people may classify cartridges as a form of media due to the rom itself being considered a form of media.

Also comic books DO qualify for media mail, however they can NOT be recent comics. Media mail has to have no advertising. Or to be more precise, no advertising still in circulation. You can send older magazines such as from the 70s and 80s since most of those advertisements are no longer in circulation. But more recent stuff is prohibited. Also the form of shipping for recent magazines and comics no longer existed. All that stuff used to be shipped by Bound Printed Matter. I used that service quite a bit when selling all my old magazines and a few comics.

[quote name='Paco']Video games DO qualify for media mail. However for them to qualify those video games have to be.

1. Compact Disc or Digital Versatile Disc form

2. Floppy Diskette Form

Video games that are on cartridges do not qualify for media mail rates. However, if they are in the form stated above, they do qualify for it. However, that line is rather tricky for most people since some people may classify cartridges as a form of media due to the rom itself being considered a form of media.

Also comic books DO qualify for media mail, however they can NOT be recent comics. Media mail has to have no advertising. Or to be more precise, no advertising still in circulation. You can send older magazines such as from the 70s and 80s since most of those advertisements are no longer in circulation. But more recent stuff is prohibited. Also the form of shipping for recent magazines and comics no longer existed. All that stuff used to be shipped by Bound Printed Matter. I used that service quite a bit when selling all my old magazines and a few comics.[/QUOTE]

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm
Qualified Items

Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail prices:
a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers' own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.
b. 16-millimeter or narrower width films, which must be positive prints in final form for viewing, and catalogs of such films of 24 pages or more (at least 22 of which are printed). Films and film catalogs sent to or from commercial theaters do not qualify for the Media Mail price.
c. Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form.
d. Printed objective test materials and their accessories used by or on behalf of educational institutions to test ability, aptitude, achievement, interests, and other mental and personal qualities with or without answers, test scores, or identifying information recorded thereon in writing or by mark.
e. Sound recordings, including incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound recordings.
f. Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.
g. Printed educational reference charts designed to instruct or train individuals for improving or developing their capabilities. Each chart must be a single printed sheet of information designed for educational reference. The information on the chart, which may be printed on one or both sides of the sheet, must be conveyed primarily by graphs, diagrams, tables, or other nonnarrative matter. An educational reference chart is normally but not necessarily devoted to one subject. A chart on which the information is conveyed primarily by textual matter in a narrative form does not qualify as a printed educational reference chart for mailing at the Media Mail prices even if it includes graphs, diagrams, or tables. Examples of qualifying charts include maps produced primarily for educational reference, tables of mathematical or scientific equations, noun declensions or verb conjugations used in the study of languages, periodic table of elements, botanical or zoological tables, and other tables used in the study of science.
h. Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.
i. Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.


As far as comic books go, it seems like the traditional advertising inside definitely does exclude them, even if its in-house ads. The rules put no sort of timeline on whether or not the advertisements are current or 50 years old. The only exception would be something like those pages that say: Find these past and upcoming great books written by [same author] published by [same company]. Usually you see these on the back page or cover of a book. They're pretty common in many if not most books.

As far as video games go, the only way they qualify is if you think they fit that definition of "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information" but I'd wager that if this was being argued by lawyers, they'd say that's vague and that the "prerecorded information" is supposed to be the same type of information permissible in the preceding sections.

If you have a different official source that says what you think Media Mail rules say regarding old comic books and video games being okay, I'd love to see it.

This isn't worth debating. Video games do NOT qualify for Media Mail rates. Doesn't mean anything bad will happen to you if you ship them via Media Mail (except postage could be due to the recipient if the abuse is discovered) but you're not in the right to do so.

Unless you're shipping a large game (CE/SE/LE) it's cheaper and much faster to mail the item FC ( < 13 ounces) anways.

yeah, "prerecorded information" is not a video game. Media mail is basically used to ship movies, music and books. You can pretend it's not and that video games qualify but they do not.

The argument about old advertisements not being an advertisement is interesting but in all likelihood, wrong. The USPS would not have a rule that would require a postal inspector to determine whether or not an advertisement is valid today. "Hey, there's an ad for marlboros in this comic book. Is that ok?" It's easier to say no advertisements of any kind.

This is what I mean. People will either make up shit or selectively choose to believe whatever they agree with, regardless of the source. I'm sure Paco didn't make up what he just wrote. But it was good for him because it was cheaper for him. So he just believed whoever did make up that nonsense.

[quote name='Vinny']The bank situation is not the same. The bank is a for profit organization that makes money off that deposit you made by loaning it out. If they give out a few thousand pens, it probably doesn't matter because they're making 2x much on loan interests (and maybe they'll throw you a few pennies).

The USPS is not-for-profit. If they hand out pens (boxes) that customers never return (use for Priority), then that actually hurts their bottom line.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying they would turn a profit if the government didn't keep cooking the books to make it look like they're losing money, or whatever they do in order to keep the USPS appearing as a non-profit. I'd like to see what it costs them to deliver flat-rate mailers to individual addresses versus having the priority boxes available at central locations, whether those boxes are used properly or not.

Your argument makes no sense here. Even if the USPS was making billions of dollars, the point is that the boxes aren't intended for regular mail, so they shouldn't be used for regular mail. People who follow the rules shouldn't subsidize those who don't.

It's the same thing as UPS boxes. UPS could be making a mint. And good for them. But that doesn't mean you should use their boxes for FedEx shipments.

See what I mean OP about people justifying whatever they want?

[quote name='kodave']http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm
Qualified Items

Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail prices:
a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers' own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.
b. 16-millimeter or narrower width films, which must be positive prints in final form for viewing, and catalogs of such films of 24 pages or more (at least 22 of which are printed). Films and film catalogs sent to or from commercial theaters do not qualify for the Media Mail price.
c. Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form.
d. Printed objective test materials and their accessories used by or on behalf of educational institutions to test ability, aptitude, achievement, interests, and other mental and personal qualities with or without answers, test scores, or identifying information recorded thereon in writing or by mark.
e. Sound recordings, including incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound recordings.
f. Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.
g. Printed educational reference charts designed to instruct or train individuals for improving or developing their capabilities. Each chart must be a single printed sheet of information designed for educational reference. The information on the chart, which may be printed on one or both sides of the sheet, must be conveyed primarily by graphs, diagrams, tables, or other nonnarrative matter. An educational reference chart is normally but not necessarily devoted to one subject. A chart on which the information is conveyed primarily by textual matter in a narrative form does not qualify as a printed educational reference chart for mailing at the Media Mail prices even if it includes graphs, diagrams, or tables. Examples of qualifying charts include maps produced primarily for educational reference, tables of mathematical or scientific equations, noun declensions or verb conjugations used in the study of languages, periodic table of elements, botanical or zoological tables, and other tables used in the study of science.
h. Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.
i. Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.


As far as comic books go, it seems like the traditional advertising inside definitely does exclude them, even if its in-house ads. The rules put no sort of timeline on whether or not the advertisements are current or 50 years old. The only exception would be something like those pages that say: Find these past and upcoming great books written by [same author] published by [same company]. Usually you see these on the back page or cover of a book. They're pretty common in many if not most books.

As far as video games go, the only way they qualify is if you think they fit that definition of "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information" but I'd wager that if this was being argued by lawyers, they'd say that's vague and that the "prerecorded information" is supposed to be the same type of information permissible in the preceding sections.

If you have a different official source that says what you think Media Mail rules say regarding old comic books and video games being okay, I'd love to see it.[/QUOTE]

I thought the whole idea of media mail was to subsidize educational pursuits; though it seems ambiguous enough that it's like "Hmm, what products are not profitable shipped in any other way that I should try running the gauntlet with." Then the regulation becomes more like what the USPS feels like fining and what they'll give a free pass to No rhyme or reason.

Personally, I've always wondered about RPG sourcebooks in board game-like boxes; it's kind of like a book, and it's kind of like a game. Old boxed PC games are weird too, due to the excess of book-like materials.

[quote name='confoosious']yeah, "prerecorded information" is not a video game. Media mail is basically used to ship movies, music and books. You can pretend it's not and that video games qualify but they do not.

The argument about old advertisements not being an advertisement is interesting but in all likelihood, wrong. The USPS would not have a rule that would require a postal inspector to determine whether or not an advertisement is valid today. "Hey, there's an ad for marlboros in this comic book. Is that ok?" It's easier to say no advertisements of any kind.

This is what I mean. People will either make up shit or selectively choose to believe whatever they agree with, regardless of the source. I'm sure Paco didn't make up what he just wrote. But it was good for him because it was cheaper for him. So he just believed whoever did make up that nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Actually this is what I was told by one of the postal employees. Games themselves in the form of cartridges are not allowed, but games on compact discs or cds and dvds are a lot more ambigious and they tend to get a free pass because of how grey it is. It can be a toss up depending on your postmaster. I send most small games under 13 ounces through first class mail since it's actually cheaper then media mail and a lot quicker. However, when I send lots of pc games, I send them through media. I've had boxes opened, shown them to the clerks and even the post master and they basically okayed it due to the fact that it was floppy diskettes and cds. CD and Floppies are clearly stated as Media. Now if I tossed a cartridge in there, then yes, I would be breaking it. However with Floppies and discs, it's highly debatable if you wish to truly get technical into it.

Then again, I know almost everyone at the post office on a first name basis. They've seen my packages saw what was in there, and they sent it.

I did get told that priority mail packages cannot bulge though. If they cannot close by themselves with the adhesive on the strip, then it isn't valid. But if it does hold, then you can reinforce it with tape.

[quote name='confoosious']Some people actually don't know. And that's fine. I found out recently that comic books don't qualify for media mail. I had no idea.

It's the people do know, yet try to get around it somehow that are the douches. Is it wrong of me to wish their packages get lost in the mail?[/QUOTE]


Hmm never heard of that my comics always get shipped in media mail. Also who ever said they can't be new they are. I know eastcoastcomics ships media mail and i think midtown comics might.

@paco - You know why I am 99.999999% sure video games are not media mail? Cause you can't send it anymore via USPS media mail as trade ins to amazon. I'm sure the post office was like "no, not anymore, noram" because of the sheer volume they were doing.

I think your local post office might just be misinformed or not give a crap because it's a drop in the bucket.

[quote name='confoosious']@paco - You know why I am 99.999999% sure video games are not media mail? Cause you can't send it anymore via USPS media mail as trade ins to amazon. I'm sure the post office was like "no, not anymore, noram" because of the sheer volume they were doing.

I think your local post office might just be misinformed or not give a crap because it's a drop in the bucket.[/QUOTE]

I thought that media rule was on amazon because media mail only travels WHEN the truck is moving. Media mail gets the least priority of any shipping service. Media only ships when there's space to be quite blunt. Plus Media is the most likely to get lost, held up and so forth, does Amazon give you instant credit for your games like Estarland? I recall Estarland giving you instant credit for your trade ins, but they had to receive them within 10 days which removed media mail due to it taking up to a month.

And I was curious about that too. I asked them about it. They shown me their list of rules and regulations and I questioned them on it, and they said that it's fine. This wasn't just one post office, but several. Honestly, I guess it can be a tossup depending on which post office, but I've been shipping at this post office for many years, and they see what I ship and always tell me that it's fine to ship cd and floppy disk games since they fall under the guise of computer media since they do technically have data inscribed on them.

the comics thing, I admit I might be wrong on it. I do remember that all comics and magazines had to be shipped through bound printed matter, but since that form of shipping no longer exists, I may be outdated on what the rules for those are.

I hope the Postal Service rots in ing hell. Dies.

They lost my mother ing ZoE 2.

I will never forget that. Never.

[quote name='Paco']I thought that media rule was on amazon because media mail only travels WHEN the truck is moving. Media mail gets the least priority of any shipping service. Media only ships when there's space to be quite blunt. Plus Media is the most likely to get lost, held up and so forth, does Amazon give you instant credit for your games like Estarland? I recall Estarland giving you instant credit for your trade ins, but they had to receive them within 10 days which removed media mail due to it taking up to a month.

And I was curious about that too. I asked them about it. They shown me their list of rules and regulations and I questioned them on it, and they said that it's fine. This wasn't just one post office, but several. Honestly, I guess it can be a tossup depending on which post office, but I've been shipping at this post office for many years, and they see what I ship and always tell me that it's fine to ship cd and floppy disk games since they fall under the guise of computer media since they do technically have data inscribed on them.

the comics thing, I admit I might be wrong on it. I do remember that all comics and magazines had to be shipped through bound printed matter, but since that form of shipping no longer exists, I may be outdated on what the rules for those are.[/QUOTE]

what does Amazon care if it takes 10 days? You get 25 days to get it there. It wasn't a question of speed, it was legality.

You can still ship your books to them via USPS Media if you want to trade books in.

The thing is, the regulations are vaguely written so they are just interpreting it as they want. The USPS should just come out and put it explicitly whether video games are allowed or not on that page someone linked earlier.

[quote name='b3b0p']I hope the Postal Service rots in ing hell. Dies.

They lost my mother ing ZoE 2.

I will never forget that. Never.[/QUOTE]

wow, you're very mature for your age.

[quote name='confoosious']what does Amazon care if it takes 10 days? You get 25 days to get it there. It wasn't a question of speed, it was legality.

You can still ship your books to them via USPS Media if you want to trade books in.




wow, you're very mature for your age.[/QUOTE]


Legality of it might is against USPS rules. I think the most that would happen is the package would get sent back to you and a waste of postage. I doubt its anything criminal like someone else was trying to say earlier.

I think someone is mistaking it for opening others peoples mail or something. Never heard reusing USPS marked boxes to be criminal.

A guy on my PSN friends list just sent me a movie i won in a contest in a usps box reason being he works for them i'm ask him about this.

[quote name='confoosious']Your argument makes no sense here. Even if the USPS was making billions of dollars, the point is that the boxes aren't intended for regular mail, so they shouldn't be used for regular mail. People who follow the rules shouldn't subsidize those who don't.

It's the same thing as UPS boxes. UPS could be making a mint. And good for them. But that doesn't mean you should use their boxes for FedEx shipments.

See what I mean OP about people justifying whatever they want?[/QUOTE]

It's not about rule following or not rule following, the USPS is subsidizing these boxes across the board whether they get used or they get thrown into a landfill (Key Idea: They're going to get misused and wasted, no matter how much moral posturing there is to the contrary). It's like the dollar bill, it's federal property but they can't do a damn thing to stop you from setting it on fire or not using it. So they lose a little bit of money by you not behaving as Big Brother commands. BFD. Apparently the benefits outweigh the losses to the USPS because they make these things available.

Another thing, if people use concealed flat rate boxes to ship media mail, or cut up flat rate boxes to use as padding...well, isn't it the postal inspector's job to determine whether these packages are a problem for the USPS and whether fines should or should not be applied? I know for damn sure it isn't my job to enforce and interpret the weirdass rules the USPS has.