CAGcast #280: Half CAGcast, Half Mass Effect 3 Spoilercast

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]As the title suggests, it's two CAGcasts in one! The first half we discuss Witcher 2, Ridge Racer Unbounded, March NPDs (and more), while the 2nd half is dedicated to spoilerific Mass Effect 3 talk.

Get your questions or topics answered on future shows via CAGbag or Twitter.


[podcast]189[/podcast]
Download - 84 minutes, 50MB
iTunes: Subscribe - Review
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Heads High - Mr. Vegas / 'Mass Effect 3' Ending FAIL (The Wanted Parody) - Terence Jay Music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21SeD0zHEFw

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[quote name='The Dutch Slayer']Hey that is awesome but this means that this is this weeks cagcast right?
Not any more this week right?[/QUOTE]
Right
 
Waiting for the Vita price drop, or at least a significant price decrease on the memory cards
 
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I think it was mentioned in the 'Final Hours of Mass Effect 3' how long it took to come up with ending
I heard it was written in less than 90 minutes.
But more importantly the ending, unlike the rest of the story WAS NOT peer reviewed.

And as far the whole debate about artistic integrity, happy v. sad endings, whether or not its' what people wanted isn't really the issue. It's the severe lack of quality that has people upset. The fact that the ending does go against the entire series up to that point brings peoples' blood to a boil.

And before I forget, this sort of thing did happen to Metroid a couple of years ago, and the similarities between Mass Effect 3's ending and that game, in regards to how it puts developers at odds with fans, what can the series do now, etc. is exactly what happened to Metroid two years ago. Nintendo hasn't exactly responded in the same way Bioware has (I.E. they haven't) but it still doesn't make the situation any less shitty for everyone.
 
Shouldn't Cheapy be comparing the Mass Effect trilogy to the Saints Row trilogy? Isn't that up his alley?

Mass Effect 3 spoiler talk:

Am I the only one that talked Mordin out of dying? Geez.

The endings being all the same tells me that they have definitive plans, whether it is DLC or future games, so they needed a specific set-up. But why was there no boss battle? I thought for sure I'd have to take down a super-powered indoctrinated Anderson. Instead, we get 20 minutes of limping around the citadel.

I think the writing on this game actually wasn't well developed. It wraps up too much. Generations of problems all solved while you're in a desperate race against time to save Earth? Riiiiiight.
Plus they wrote all the old squad mates in a very inconsequental way, because any of them could be dead when this game began. So they may be there, or they may be replaced by another dude of the same species. It's rather insulting to the memory of your old crew. You should be able to recruit any/all of them. They took the cheap way out.
 
Bioware said the ending is the ending. Indoctrination didn't happen. Bioware will be adding some cut scenes to make things clearer via DLC.

ME 3 spoiler mistake you made.
You meet a spectre. He's the guy on the Kasumi side mission. He also reappears in the Cerberus Citadial ambush mission if Thane died in ME 2.
 
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[quote name='thorbahn3']Bioware said the ending is the ending. Indoctrination didn't happen. Bioware will be adding some cut scenes to make things clearer via DLC.

ME 3 spoiler mistake you made.
You meet a spectre. He's the guy on the Kasumi side mission. He also reappears in the Cerberus Citadial ambush mission if Thane died in ME 2.
[/QUOTE]

So there are two, doesn't seem like enough. My points still stand.
 
[quote name='Wombat']So there are two, doesn't seem like enough. My points still stand.[/QUOTE]

They're supposed to be ultra-elite, why would there be very many? And they should be scattered across the galaxy doing stuff, not sitting around the office.
 
[quote name='meager']They're supposed to be ultra-elite, why would there be very many? And they should be scattered across the galaxy doing stuff, not sitting around the office.[/QUOTE]

Three to serve the billions? I would say 10 minimum. And if they are on other planets, why not have that mission instead of going back to the citadel for the fifth time?
 
HAHAHA, what a great intro Cheapy. I'll never tire of that Javik impression.

The ME3 spoilercast was glorious. It was everything I wanted it to be. Nice job guys!
 
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Hey I thought I should just clear up the relay thing Wombat had trouble with.

The relays were created by the Reapers a very long time ago, at the first 'cycle', there may have been hundreds of 50,000 year cycles as there was new Reaper created after each cycle and there are loads of Reapers.

They were created to make sure species based their technology on the mass relays, so the Reapers would know where their tech would advance to, allowing them to easily dominate. Harbringer says in ME1 that they knew that everyone would copy the tech, otherwise species would never develop FTL mass effect drives and so wouldn't reach the Citadel like the Reapers want. (They want them at the Citadel so all government can be killed at once, leaving universe in disarray, as before Shepard interfered the Citadel was meant to be the relay for the Reapers to return from deep space).

The mass relays are far too advanced to replicate, the Reapers kill all life before they become advanced enough to replicate Reaper tech as they would pose too much of a threat.
 
Show Notes

5:30 - Show feedback
7:30 - Watch this
9:00 - Thug Life
11:00 - New Releases
11:00 - Witcher 2
18:15 - Trials Evolution
18:45 - Disgaea 3
19:30 - Deadliest Warrior
21:30 - NPDs (Binary Domain, Resident Evil, Vita)
29:45 - Ridge Racer Unbounded
32:00 - Apple/Valve
34:15 - MS monetizing Live
35:30 - Big Win Hockey
38:30 - Mass Effect 3 talk
 
This made my day, an early week podcast. You guys make driving long distances fun. Maybe Cheapy could contact Bioware and voice a Prothean in some future DLC. I would download that for sure.
 
Shipwreck, I played Bro Shep and I had Kaiden because he lived through ME. Wombat was right.
If you engage Kaiden often enough as Bro Shep, you have the opportunity to have the "no homo" conversation with him on the Citadel. Or you can go with that, if you want.
 
I like how both Shipwreck and Wombat are both making up the lore for ME. Shipwreck being convinced by the Ashley thing and Wombat making shit up for ME2. :p
 
I was surprised in the number of things you guys couldn't remember clearly from the series, especially the third game having recently played it. Maybe things are more clear to me since I've played each game multiple times and finished all the DLC.

As someone that's spent several hundred hours with this series (by far my favorite of this generation) I was very disappointed with the ending. I destroyed the reapers after listening to the hologram space child as I felt it was the only choice that made sense.
By the way, were you talking to the space child in space with no suit? As soon as I saw that I thought, how is this possible?
I think they should not have ended the game where they did, especially if indoctrination theory is correct. They definitely shouldn't have to release DLC to clarify the ending.

I love this meme... it pretty much sums up my thoughts about the holo child's speech prefectly.
2147028-yodawgme.jpg


Have any of you played all 3 Gears of War games? That's another trilogy from this generation that I really enjoyed, and I think Epic did a great job wrapping that up. Of course they didn't have to deal with player choice and multiple possibilities with the fate of squad mates and civilizations, but it was a satisfying ending that made sense within the universe that they created.
 
Wombat's Witcher 2 review (AKA game impressions) might have been the weakest review/impressions I have ever heard. So now I know that it's hard to pick things up, the guy can carry lots of items and there's not much hand holding for quests. Then when asked about the combat he says it's a combination between Skyrim and Kingdoms of Amalur, which doesn't tell me squat. Weak Womab... Very, very weak... Good thing you have huge globes in your pants.
 
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a few things.

Wombat. The Protheans did reverse engineer the mass relays. They made a small one that connected IIos to the Cidadel in ME1. Also, the ending you suggested is too similar to Fallout 3 AND Saren already did the self-sacrifice thing in ME1

I was under the impression there are additional Mass Relays out there that are dormant. Not sure if these were destroyed.

You could still be a Spectre in Mass Effect 2. You can also retain your Alliance contacts.
 
[quote name='usickenme']a few things.
Also, the ending you suggested is too similar to Fallout 3 AND Saren already did the self-sacrifice thing in ME1[/QUOTE]

If you're talking about Saren blowing his brains out with a pistol,
the illusive man does that if you have enough paragon. . What Wombat meant was that he wanted the illusive man to give up his life for the galaxy after seeing what he did, not commit suicide I think.
As for Wombat's complaint that there aren't enough real side missions I agree, but you had to get rid of something in order to have multiplayer and that's what they did.
 
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I don't know if you mention it in this show but a heads up. I'm pretty sure Javik does not have a Jamaican accent. Doesn't even sound Jamaican to me at all. Sounds African, possibly Nigerian or somewhere nearby. Not sure why you guys think he sounds like a rasta or something.

Now Tali and other quarians seem harder to place. Eastern European? Middle Eastern? Hmmm...
 
[quote name='Wombat']Three to serve the billions? I would say 10 minimum. And if they are on other planets, why not have that mission instead of going back to the citadel for the fifth time?[/QUOTE]

They serve the council, not the people. I'd say 10 maximum. And since the council was never really interested in fighting the Reapers, no reason why their spectres would be doing missions related to the cause.

Stupid citadel. I was hoping we could help retake Omega, perhaps have a dance-off battle with the Illusive Man for control. But, alas, it obviously got trimmed out of the budget. Is the Citadel really the only unoccupied place to eat left in the galaxy? Perhaps if the alliance would hire a chef like Ceberus did, the crew could just eat onboard.
 
[quote name='meager']They serve the council, not the people. I'd say 10 maximum. And since the council was never really interested in fighting the Reapers, no reason why their spectres would be doing missions related to the cause.

Stupid citadel. I was hoping we could help retake Omega, perhaps have a dance-off battle with the Illusive Man for control. But, alas, it obviously got trimmed out of the budget. Is the Citadel really the only unoccupied place to eat left in the galaxy? Perhaps if the alliance would hire a chef like Ceberus did, the crew could just eat onboard.[/QUOTE]

I thought they were more like Green Lanterns, with the council being the guardians.
 
Wiki lists eight specters, although it's fair to wish for more.

Really not trying to sound rude and come off as an elitist prick, I love you guys, but I wish some more time was spent researching any questions you guys had about the trilogy. Parts such as the long 1 minute segment of Shipwreck doubleguessing saving Kaiden's survival for males, confusion about the origin of the Collectors, or questioning how the Alliance secured the Cerebus Normandy (It's explained through consoles EDI guides you through) made me facepalm a little bit... While I'm sure most wouldn't care about it, for the most part it would make folks like me get anal about the facts and it just adds to the confusion.

I still liked it and a lot of my complaints may be me expecting too much, especially when you all have more pressing matters than to discuss lore for a fictional game. But I hope future discussions about the plots of different games would be slightly more prepared and researched beforehand instead of acting confused and wasting time during the recording.

Once again, sorry if I'm coming off rude, keep up the good work and thanks for the early podcast.
 
I did the same thing at the end of Mass Effect 3 where I forgot what was what.... The kid was yapping and I was sorta in "this is happening?" mode and when he stopped talking I had control again and didn't know which way to go, I thought it would be a wheel option. As for the difficulty towards the end I was having a hard time but I eventual figured out I could just straight up run past them in the beginning. \\:D/ The part where that's not an option though I fought through it but wish I remembered I could just lower the difficulty.

I've been playing as BroManDude Shep but I'm starting over from Mass Effect 1 with Fem Shep to experience her voice acting and I'll save Kaidan to see if he's as big a douche as Ashley. I've been playing as the good guy so I'm making Fem Shep the Bitchyest Bitch the Galaxy has ever seen.
 
[quote name='bickle']Show Notes

5:30 - Show feedback
7:30 - Watch this
9:00 - Thug Life
11:00 - New Releases
11:00 - Witcher 2
18:15 - Trials Evolution
18:45 - Disgaea 3
19:30 - Deadliest Warrior
21:30 - NPDs (Binary Domain, Resident Evil, Vita)
29:45 - Ridge Racer Unbounded
32:00 - Apple/Valve
34:15 - MS monetizing Live
35:30 - Big Win Hockey
38:30 - Mass Effect 3 talk[/QUOTE]

FYI: I always look for your post now so I know where to jump back too when I miss certain discussions.
 
Oh and can you guys please watch Driver soon? If not, I expect Cheapy to continue to ask you guys each week if you've watched it.
 
Thanks for the clear warning of when the spoiler talk started. I probably won't be able to play ME3 for like another year, so don't want to hear that. Thought I'd have to skip this week entirely, but you made it safe.

Although I'm worried about making it that long... I didn't get to play ME2 until the PS3 version was released (and I don't mean I had to wait for the PS3 version. I mean that when the PS3 version came out, it had been a year already so I got the PC version for cheap), but that didn't have such a big hubbub about the story. Since there's such force behind this ending, I feel like a couple of months down the road, people are going to stop caring and just blurt it out, thinking that everyone has played it by then.
 
[quote name='drkshr']Oh and can you guys please watch Driver soon? If not, I expect Cheapy to continue to ask you guys each week if you've watched it.[/QUOTE]

Seriously or I'll report both of you to the BBB! I thought it was a great movie so I don't think it'll be a waste of time.
 
[quote name='Jasper Kazai']Thanks for the clear warning of when the spoiler talk started. I probably won't be able to play ME3 for like another year, so don't want to hear that. Thought I'd have to skip this week entirely, but you made it safe.

Although I'm worried about making it that long... I didn't get to play ME2 until the PS3 version was released (and I don't mean I had to wait for the PS3 version. I mean that when the PS3 version came out, it had been a year already so I got the PC version for cheap), but that didn't have such a big hubbub about the story. Since there's such force behind this ending, I feel like a couple of months down the road, people are going to stop caring and just blurt it out, thinking that everyone has played it by then.[/QUOTE]

Ewoks win in the end. Sorry.
 
Really didn't understand all the confusion for ME3. Felt like most of it made sense, just a tad vague and stupid at times.

Regarding the indoctrination theory with the little boy: In the beginning of the game, other people do see the kid. When they are trying to escape on the ship, you see one of the soldiers rush the kid onto the shuttle. Of course your other teammates didn't see him, because they weren't there at the time.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I thought they were more like Green Lanterns, with the council being the guardians.[/QUOTE]

I understood what you talking about, but a better example could've been the Justice League, where instead of a race of omnipotent beings selecting the few, the proud, the marines, you'd have a bunch of chosen heroes protecting the galaxy instead of screwing it up more often than not. Heck, you already have the overpriced space station.
 
I thought the discussion was great. I really didn't have a problem with the ending. I played through the whole series, and I was kind of surprised and entertained by how much some people really read into the ending. Sure, it felt a little out of left field. They had to put a bow on it some how.

The problem with discussing this game is that almost every person is going to experience a slightly different version of the story. The major plot points are mostly the same, but there are entire characters and scenes that some people will never see. Unless they look up the alternate scenes online, or play through the game multiple times. That part is way more interesting than Space Poochie Jr.
 
This is the only video you need to know about Mass Effect 3.

[youtube]6j03J4OAYH4[/youtube]

It's an okay game that EA pretty much treated as a cash grab and it should have been much better and the ending is the stuff of legends, but this video makes everything alright.
 
No talk about FEZ this week? I was looking forward to a little discussion regarding this title. . . oh well.
 
Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck while I appreciate your efforts at a full ME3 discussion this week overall I found it lacking because IMO it was too one sided. I respect your opinions on the game so maybe you could have invited a guest on your show who liked the game & ending to balance it out. Also too much time was spent on the end and you left out many parts of the rest of the game for example the improvements to the game (combat, weapon customization, leveling, etc), multi-player, or even more time on the differences in your stories. It also didn't help that only Wombat seemed to have any real interest in the topic.

Regarding your confusion with the ending if I may I will try to be a counter point. In my view the ending is a logical end to one of the major themes in Mass Effect which is the nature of organic vs synthetic life.

There is a race of beings (represented by the ghost child) that control the reapers and the universe in general. The made the reapers to keep organic life in check (This race was foreshadowed by the defeated reaper on the Quarian world). Your arrival to the Crucible (Citadel) is their proof that their "solution" has failed and they need a new one, hence the 3 choices, kill/control/merge.

While I would agree the idea of a master race behind everything is cheesy it's not an uncommon theme in scifi (ie Battlestar Galactica) and is not out of place here.

Ship, just to refresh your memory over the Kaiden/Ashley decision as this video shows you indeed get to choose which of the two dies in ME1 regardless of gender and that decision follows you the whole game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C0OkmX3Hcg
 
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I still haven't played Mass Effect 3, but I listened to the spoiler discussion anyway. I felt like I had to, because I wanted to understand why people were upset, but I didn't want to spend money on it at the moment.
My problem with the ending is that it's eerily similar to the setup for Deus Ex: Human Revolution's ending. A character just talks to you and says, "here are the endings you can choose." Sure, it was bad in Deus Ex, but Mass Effect is a game that tries to sell you on the idea that your choices matter. I still want to play Mass Effect 3, but my financial situation isn't great right now.
 
[quote name='drkshr']FYI: I always look for your post now so I know where to jump back too when I miss certain discussions.[/QUOTE]

Cool, I'm glad it's helpful for someone :D Sometimes I get bored at work and want to hear someone talk about a specific game.

Good show, I'm glad the ME3 talk started so early. I like that Wombat leads the in-depth game critique sessions, he does a nice job of giving it a structure.

One thing that continually surprises me here and elsewhere is how user experiences can be so similar. For example most people talk about the quality of the story at the end, but I find people's reactions to be very interesting. When I heard my 3 options, I literally didn't want to choose anything. I hated em all and basically just picked the middle one because I no longer cared. And hearing Cheapy say that he just didn't care reminded me of that.

In my opinion, the worst thing about the ending is just how it makes people feel. Like it was all pointless. That it didn't matter. That things you cared about are irrelevant. I'm assuming that most of these plot points are errors due to bad storytelling, but in my ending I felt horrible that I took Liara along on my last mission and got her killed, then felt horrible because I was forcing an evolution upon the entire galaxy, even more horrible when I saw them all blow up anyway due to the mass relay explosions, then having to watch Joker and crew frantically trying to escape the explosion that I caused. Then after all that crap, everyone's fine! And Joker gets to bang Edi and my Liara for the rest of his life. MY Liara. The end. :p

Regarding the indoctrination theory, that would take a lot of foresight and by all accounts the end was put together pretty fast. I think its much more believable that this was all just a big screw up caused by pushing it out the door too fast.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Really didn't understand all the confusion for ME3. Felt like most of it made sense, just a tad vague and stupid at times.

Regarding the indoctrination theory with the little boy: In the beginning of the game, other people do see the kid. When they are trying to escape on the ship, you see one of the soldiers rush the kid onto the shuttle. Of course your other teammates didn't see him, because they weren't there at the time.[/QUOTE]

Shepard is the only one who seems to notice him. The soldiers wave some other civilians onto the ship, and the little boy comes stumbling after. If it were truly real, you would think the soldiers would run and physically pick the child up. Nope, he casually struggles to get on board with people around him doing nothing.

Check out the vid (Min 23 Sec 25): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrACow5jnfE#t=23m25s
 
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