Uh Oh, It's The Big O Wrestling Thread

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More weights = more dates!
 
If I had woken up earlier, I was going to make one about Scott Steiner's tweets, but I actually think I like this one more.
 
Thats Koko B. Ware standing with the soon to be greatest Jewish wrestler of all time The Big O. If you can't stand the heat. Stay out of his O-Zone.
 
[quote name='007']To address that top point... exactly. I think the bottom line is that I held Jericho to a higher standard. Most of what he does/did generally has some kind of purpose behind it, but most of the build-up just seemed like he was just jerking off to cool ideas. The videos and trolling were great ideas, but not having anything behind them was just... disappointing.

See, I think the problem is that there *is* an acknowledgement of what Jericho does, which is why I've been disappointed with this. Like I said above, there always seemed like there was a focus or a goal to what he did. To remove that end marker just makes it feel like every other scattershot WWE idea.

Jericho is, effectively, a 'legend' at this point. The problem with that, though, is that a scrappy face legend (HBK) can do job after job after job without really losing much credibility. In this run, Jericho's inability to put nearly anyone away has killed it for me. The genesis of the Punk/Jericho feud was them bickering over being the 'best in the world', but Jericho wasn't showing any reason for people to back that. As a heel, it's ridiculously important to look like a viable threat, which is the biggest ing problem WWE has now. Sure, Punk gets over, but Jericho desperately needed to win the Rumble or one of the two Punk matches. Even with the status afforded him, the booking needs to reflect the story, especially with a heel character. WWE, however, seems to have completely forgotten how to do that.

As a continuation of my last comments... yeah, I respect Jericho for understanding the 'right' way of doing things. My issue, though, is that I haven't seen that anywhere in this storyline. Getting Cena over by going out kicking and screaming is one thing, but coming back and portraying yourself as a force to be reckoned with while losing every goddamned match is another. I expect people will disagree with this, but I don't feel that this whole thing has gotten Punk over any more than he already was.

That, I guess, is the basic thrust of my argument... it's not the 'why' of him coming back, but the fact that none of it, from a storyline OR business standpoint, has made any sense. Even the best parts of this storyline are lifted from pre-WWE Punk storylines, so he can't even get credit for that. We were lead to believe that there was a plan for his return, but every twist indicates that it simply wasn't the case.

I'm not calling for everyone to suddenly classify this run as a 'failure', but I simply wanted to get some thoughts on a run that has just baffled me. I can't decide whether WWE failed Jericho, Jericho failed Jericho, or Jericho simply failed the completely made-up expectations I had in my mind.[/QUOTE]

You make a lot of good points man. But I have to disagree with you there isn't a focus here to what Jericho is doing. It's clear as day. It's to lose and give the guys who will be around five years from now credibility. Maybe that's not the focus people want it to be, but that's what it is.

Of course, Jericho would never come out and say this. That would ruin the story line proving that CM Punk is the new "BEST IN THE WORLD!". That Jericho can't hang anymore and that's it time to get out. And sure his brand might get damaged doing this, but if his career is winding down, there won't be much of a brand left soon anyways.

I think Jericho has a clearer picture of how we'll remember him in hindsight than we do. The point isn't to have any legitimacy left. It's to have none. It's to leave all his legitimacy in the hands of the guys across the ring from him. And then to head off into the sunset. And that's something a lot of us are really going to appreciate about the guy. He's astonishingly unselfish in that regard.

But your feeling that Jericho's inability to put anyone away has "killed it" for you is missing the point. Chris Jericho, in 2012, at age 41, is in the WWE to lose. Not for any other non-financial reason. And I think maybe it's because the dirt sheets failed to frame his run as such, a farewell run if you will, but I think it's a testament to Jericho's talent that he hasn't allowed this run to be seen like that. You're still blind sighted by the fact that Chris Jericho worked you into believing that this run is anything but a passing of the torch run. Through that perspective, Jericho's current run is anything BUT a failure.
 
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I watched 3/4 of Extreme Rules last night at a friend's house. I'm SO lost on what they are trying to do with "Ryback". He's an ugly, ugly man and those RVD-like tights don't help matters much. It seems each time they attempt to push a "big-man" it works well for 2-3 weeks and then they simply forget about the guy.

-Vladmir
-Zeke
-Reks
-Masters

Those are the somewhat recent guys that spring to mind. I hate suggesting this but why don't they just stick him with another big guy and build them up to take the straps from Epico and Primo? Do they just not care at all about the tag division? It's VERY depressing. The trend is :

1.) Make one tag team.
2.) Since there are no other real teams, have the team beat two people who are randomly paired together with zero chemistry.
3.) After a few wins, have the new team beat the team currently holding the belts.
4.) Disband old team.

It's disheartening. They need to scoop up all the low/mid-carders and form real teams with them (what ELSE are they going to do with these guys?), give them ACTUAL tag names and PLEASE give them DECENT entrance music, for the love of god.

Sorry for the dumb rant, I just love tag-team wrestling and the fact that it is now a joke really bothers me. It really set it in for me when they seperated Shad and JTG...I mean, as much as some people loathed Cryme Tyme what did they gain from breaking a team like that up? Shad is gone and JTG loses every week. What a waste of potential and talent.

UNRELATED SIDE-NOTE: I REALLY loved Sean O' Haire's "Devil's Advocate" gimmick. I wish they'd do something like that again.
 
I'd like to add that if CM Punk makes it to Summerslam as champion, he'll have passed The Undertaker, JBL, Yokozuna, The Ultimate Warrior, Billy Graham, Kurt Angle, and The Rock to have become the 14th longest reigning WWE Champion of all time.
 
[quote name='Habbler']Thats Koko B. Ware standing with the soon to be greatest Jewish wrestler of all time The Big O. If you can't stand the heat. Stay out of his O-Zone.[/QUOTE]
Best Jewish wrestler of all time? Weird, Colt Cabana's been hitting the juice.
 
Big O won't even get the Alex Riley treatment. If he ever shows up on TV, it'll be a quick appearance. He's Zack Ryder's Marty Janetty.
 
Bringing up money with Jericho always seemed a bit odd given how vocal he has been about not having any merchandise since 2008.
 
[quote name='neocisco']In regards to the OP I present this query:

Who dat is?[/QUOTE]

Zack Ryder's friend and frequent guest on his youtube show.
 
My two cents on Jericho: He's here to lose. It's what he wants. Somebody mentioned how Jericho has a better idea how his legacy will look down the road then we currently do. Completely true. How quickly we seem to forget Jericho was losing all his matches at the end of his last run also. Some time during, he was interviewed and basically said he's there to put guys over. Other guys. Not himself. In fact, he doesn't even want to be a cool heel because then fans will cheer him for that. he wants to be a completely unlikable asshole heel who is going to make his opponent look good. He's the guy we're supposed to want to see get beat up. Sadly, we don't want that, but's it's not going to change anytime soon. The only time I think we'll get the Jericho that we want is if, and only if, he gets that one last final run as a face. Until then, losing heel Jericho is what we'll get.
 
I like the Jericho hypothesis. He doesn't seem to be nearly as ego-driven as most other guys of his stature in the business and thus is much more willing to be a high-end jobber. I do hope, though, once he knows the end is very near, that we get that last face run that Chronis alluded to. Ultimately, however, it will be up to Jericho and as well as he's conducted himself I fully support however he chooses to exit wrestling.
 
Impact was good last night. I enjoyed the Gut Check segment a lot. The Aries/Bully Ray fued is looking real good also.
 
I'd quote everyone, but that's a bit too much effort. Ha.

On the Jericho front, I do agree with what everyone is saying. That doesn't mean I like it, but I do agree. At the core, my issue is that there's a way to put people over that doesn't involve laying down everytime a big match situation happens, which is what has happened in the Punk storyline. It's possible this could be an HBK situation where Jericho simply didn't want the belt, so he kept losing. Still, two things... One, I refuse to ever fully believe that Sheamus was always 100% 'the guy' for the 2012 Royal Rumble. I'll never be completely convinced that it was a last-minute change for no reason. Look at the Punk/Jericho and Sheamus/Bryan builds before Mania and tell me that either of them weren't lost for at least a week or two afterwards. Punk/Jericho at least found something eventually, though it was weak. They never even bothered with Sheamus/Bryan, which I think was a big part of the reason they gave it to Sheamus at the Rumble. Lazy booking. Two, giving Jericho a win, even a fluky one, at Mania only to give Punk the win and belt back in Chicago for Extreme Rules would have, in my opinion, gotten Punk over more than this straight dominance. I get that he doesn't want to be the 'cool heel', but what's the point of mind games if they don't work?

So, again, I agree that it's admirable that Jericho wants to put people over. I understand that he's creating his own legacy. You're right that we'll forget the losses eventually, but the flipside of that is, well, I think that might be because we'll forget this storyline completely. I don't know, the entire thing just feels 'off' to me. Maybe that's how I feel, or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself because I'm trying to just give WWE up after the shitshow I've seen over the past three months. Or, really, I could just be a jaded, cynical asshole who can't enjoy this shit anymore. ;)

Anyway, thanks for the input and discussion.
 
Jim Ross has noted via Twitter that WWE '13 will have more than two announcers.

Give that there's an attitude era focus, that means that JR/Lawler/Cole is a possibility.

If Booker T is the third commentator, I'll happily disable commentary.
 
Eh.. I don't know about that, but I don't think there will be a WWE '14. THQ doesn't even have a booth at E3 this year. I hate to use that as a measure of a company's success/failure, but that's pretty telling.
 
[quote name='Scorch']Jim Ross has noted via Twitter that WWE '13 will have more than two announcers.

Give that there's an attitude era focus, that means that JR/Lawler/Cole is a possibility.

If Booker T is the third commentator, I'll happily disable commentary.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? Booker T is the glue that keeps Smackdown together.

"Look at the eyes of Sin Cara!"
 
[quote name='Scorch']Eh.. I don't know about that, but I don't think there will be a WWE '14. THQ doesn't even have a booth at E3 this year. I hate to use that as a measure of a company's success/failure, but that's pretty telling.[/QUOTE]

Sadly there will likely be a WWE '14 but it'll be an EA game if THQ is done by then.
 
Yeah, I have to agree that if THQ goes under, the licence will end up with EA or Activision. No question.

That said, THQ apparently isn't in quite the dire straights that everyone thought. It's still going to be touch and go for them, but I guess they actually have more cash on hand than anticipated, as opposed to a loss. If they play things smart and cut down on development, they should be around for a while. Their biggest problem is that I think they have a lot tied up in Darksiders 2, which I really, really think is going to tank. Either way, I've made my thoughts on the matter known... I'd rather have the devil I know. THQ's WWE games are solid, if unspectacular, but I'm not willing to chance that another company can make a great game. Seriously, the list of *good* wrestling games is far, far outweighed by the bad and awful ones. The numbers aren't in our favor.
 
Wasnt there already a SD game that had multiple announcers? I think it was one where JR and King did commentary for Raw and Cole and Tazz for SD.
 
[quote name='007']Yeah, I have to agree that if THQ goes under, the licence will end up with EA or Activision. No question.

That said, THQ apparently isn't in quite the dire straights that everyone thought. It's still going to be touch and go for them, but I guess they actually have more cash on hand than anticipated, as opposed to a loss. If they play things smart and cut down on development, they should be around for a while. Their biggest problem is that I think they have a lot tied up in Darksiders 2, which I really, really think is going to tank. Either way, I've made my thoughts on the matter known... I'd rather have the devil I know. THQ's WWE games are solid, if unspectacular, but I'm not willing to chance that another company can make a great game. Seriously, the list of *good* wrestling games is far, far outweighed by the bad and awful ones. The numbers aren't in our favor.[/QUOTE]

THQ is in Trouble. Not Yukes.
 
I'd love to see a King of Colosseum/Wrestle Kingdom style game made in the US.

Speaking of which, there's been only one current-gen pro wrestling game made thus far - Wrestle Kingdom for Xbox 360. Nothing else has come out for PS3 or Wii in Japan. Really bummed about that, as it kinda renders the PS3's region-free format moot.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'd love to see a King of Colosseum/Wrestle Kingdom style game made in the US.

Speaking of which, there's been only one current-gen pro wrestling game made thus far - Wrestle Kingdom for Xbox 360. Nothing else has come out for PS3 or Wii in Japan. Really bummed about that, as it kinda renders the PS3's region-free format moot.[/QUOTE]

If only we could get a VPW game for this gen, even if it was PS3 exclusive.
 
I'm still holding out hope we get an non-XBLA avatar Fire Pro on the current gens.
 
[quote name='masked lemon']Is AKI still around in any shape or form? Last thing I remember them doing was the second Def jam fighting game.[/QUOTE]

Syn Sophia, formerly AKI, still has the engine. It was used in the Muscle wrestling games last gen. The last game to use it, or a version of it, was for the PSP - Kurohyō: Ryū ga Gotoku Shinshō - back in 2010. This is from an article on 411mania.com about the status: http://www.411mania.com/games/columns/232003

But anyway, why aren't Syn Sophia making wrestling games? We've covered this before, but basically it comes down to the fact that Syn Sophia wants to make a wrestling game again, but they can't because no-one has asked them to. Syn Sophia is a publicly traded company, and as much as the AKI Engine games are beloved, they aren't quite enough to sell a game based solely on that property. They need a licence, or at least a money mark investor, before they can go make the game.

So we're waiting for either TNA to man up and contact them, a major Japanese company to go it alone, for an unlikely coming together of all the minor companies (Battle of the Warriors, featuring NJPW! ROH! CHIKARA! Dragon Gate! CZW! PWG! AWF! DDT! Ice Ribbon! And a dozen other companies…) or for some fan with a few spare millions lying about who can get them to make it.

I'm trying for #4 myself, I'm trying to scrape together those few million, but until then, we can only hope.
 
Someone needs to get in Curt Schilling's ear.

The idea of an indy league wrestling game is a fantasy but a really great fantasy.
 
I was trying to get such a game made. Had Kenny Omega, Tyler Black, Claudio Castagnoli, and a couple of others on board. We were developing it on UDK but plans fell apart after the guy doing all the environmental art spilled soda on his laptop and lost all the assets. Still have the personal images they sent over to have their characters developed. Here is the Kenny Omega model we were working on:

j5NNR.jpg

r3ai0.jpg


The failure of the project rests entirely on me though. I'm working on a couple of other things for iOS, but after getting familiar with CryEngine 3 over this coming summer and building up a strong portfolio, I intend to get back to this project and do some pre-dev on it and eventually run a Kickstarter for it. The hardest part was obviously going to be the animations. The plan was to get a game made with roughly ten guys and release an iOS version of the project. Once we had that going and had proven ourselves to be legitimate, we were going to setup an in-game store that would wrestlers let peddle their merchandise through the game itself. Surprised the WWE still hasn't set that up.

Here are images of Tyler Black and Claudio Castagnoli:

a3hfh.jpg

Cm0KF.jpg

Q5ZEu.jpg
 
iOS is not a good platform for a wrestling game.

And why does that dude have a damn wedgie? In the words of Carlito: "That's not cool."
 
Anybody have an invite for pwtorrents? I left my account unparked after downloading some old stuff last year and it got pruned :(
 
[quote name='masked lemon']iOS is not a good platform for a wrestling game.

And why does that dude have a damn wedgie? In the words of Carlito: "That's not cool."[/QUOTE]

He had a wedgie in the original image he sent me as well. I think he took personal high resolution images from home and sent it to me through e-mail. Claudio did the same thing.

Original attempt at Kenny Omega:

characterstrip7.jpg

The iOS was a good starting ground for us. It wouldn't nearly have taken as much work to complete the project. We would eventually have branched out to PC as well and setup an open modding community so that we could keep getting custom content into the game through fan support.
 
Golden Idol, that reminds me of that Pro Wrestling X PC game that's been in development for eons.

Also, Phil Mushnik is in deep shit for some comments regarding the Nets and Jay-Z's choice for the team colors once they move to Brooklyn. You might remember the name from one of Jim Cornette's rants on Raw back in 1997 or from one of his many columns bashing wrestling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...t_n_1477927.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

A New York sportswriter is in hot water after writing that the Brooklyn Nets should change their name to the "New York N------s" because they are co-owned by Jay-Z.

Phil Mushnick, who writes for the New York Post, has apparently been a long-time critic of the rapper's role in the franchise. In a Friday column, he trashed Jay-Z's choices for the team's new uniforms:

As long as the Nets are allowing Jay-Z to call their marketing shots -- what a shock that he chose black and white as the new team colors to stress, as the Nets explained, their new "urban" home -- why not have him apply the full Jay-Z treatment?
Why the Brooklyn Nets when they can be the New York N------s? The cheerleaders could be the Brooklyn B----hes or Hoes. Team logo? A 9 mm with hollow-tip shell casings strewn beneath. Wanna be Jay-Z hip? Then go all the way!

UPDATE: Mushnick responded to the furore surrounding his column later on Friday. Writing to sports site Bob's Blitz, he said that there had been "obvious, wishful and ignorant mischaracterizations" of his words.

"Jay-Z profits from the worst and most sustaining self-enslaving stereotypes of black-American culture and I'M the racist?" he continued. "Some truths, I guess, are just hard to read, let alone think about."
 
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Of course he doubled down on his idiocy and claimed to be the victim.

*sigh*

Keep in mind that most of his columns that attacked WWF/E were about the raunch sexuality and violence of the program (and not the more substantive critiques of the writing quality). I always wondered if he had any relation to Irv Mushnik, who writes extensively about WWE's poor drug policies and wrestler treatment (but doesn't touch on the raunch issue at all).
 
[quote name='007']Their biggest problem is that I think they have a lot tied up in Darksiders 2, which I really, really think is going to tank.[/QUOTE]

Darksiders is a lot more popular than you think. It's fantastic, and Darksiders 2 is supposed to be more of the same plus droppable loot and shit. It's going to sell well.
 
WWEshop has another sale on dvds and blurays. Most of them are $9.99 for DVDs and $12.99 for Blurays. Some highlights include

Shawn/Bret WWE's Greatest Rivalries
Newest Stone Cold documentary
Ladder Match Part 2 Crash and burn
OMG Top 50 moments
SummerSlam Anthology Vol 3 (1998-2002) (DVD only)
Best of Nitro (DVD only)
Rise and Fall of WCW (DVD only)
History of the WWE title (DVD only)
History of the IC title (DVD only)

http://www.wweshop.com/category/DealoftheDay?cid=DealOfTheDayASpot_5.4.12

Says its a deal of the day so safe to assume that this wont be around tomorrow.
 
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