Working on new product ideas, would like input...

First off, I hope this is the appropriate section to post this in.

I'm guessing that many of you have seen the console-ized MVS Neo Geos on eBay and whatnot, and possibly even the awesomely beautiful and well crafted wooden MVS units (http://www.analogueinteractive.com/). In the same vein, I am working on new casings for retro systems. I'm not taking about cheesy clear replica Xbox360 shells with a zillion LEDs and liquid cooling. What I am shooting for is a re-envisioned aesthetic for some of our favorite old-school machines!

Here's my rationale for the project:

Many of us old-school gamers are adults with "real" jobs, wives/long-term girlfriends/domestic partners, houses and kids of our own. I can't speak for all of your partners, but mine doesn't really care for the look of my bright orange N64 or the frumpiness of the Super Nintendo. Not to mention that many of us are being paid well over what we made at our minimum wage burger flipper jobs in high school, so we have some disposable income to throw at our hobby instead of having to save our allowance week-to-week, month-to-month just to afford a new "game tape".

The inconsistent design of all the various consoles is another issue I want to address. Optimally, I'd like to create new cases for as many of the older consoles as possible with a similar aesthetic in the way that various pieces of high-end stereo equipment look like they belong together.




On the other hand, some of you may want something that's closer to the other end of the spectrum. Maybe something like a prototype design that was left on the cutting room floor?




I've decided to start with the SNES mini. I've wanted one for a long time, and this gave me an excuse to make that purchase. Also, it's super compact, which gives me a lot of freedom to alter the appearance without having to make it any larger. In fact, the gutty-wuts are significantly smaller than the original plastic housing. With that in mind, I plan on a final product that's actually a fair amount more compact. I just finished mocking up the guts as a template and I'd like to get moving on a design as soon as possible.




So, I'm here to ask for your input. I know what I want, but not at all what everyone else wants and I'd like to turn this into something that gives me and my little one man design firm some extra business.

Here's what need from you:

• Crazy spaceship looking, high-design, or something else?
• What consoles would you like to see re-shelled?
• What price would you be comfortable paying for an item like this?
• Do you want extra features or not? Things like lighting, custom paint, personal logos and whatnot, etc.
• Do you want to re-case the console yourself, or have me provide a service?
• Do you want to preserve the original state of the internals? I.e. Do you want to be able to easily slap the guts back into the original shell, or are you interested in something that has been modified to fit into a vastly different casing, or has repositioned switches, or whatever?
• Are you even interested in this idea at all?

Here's a concept that I mocked up over the last couple of days. Again, I would love to hear your opinions, good or bad. I want to create a product that appeals to as many people as possible, obviously. Here's your chance to have a say in what a product like this could look like, how it performs, what options are available, etc. So speak up!








Thanks,
wiggy

[quote name='wiggyx']
crazy spaceship looking, high-design, or something else?
Something clean, since i like contemporary furniture. Should just look modern.

what consoles would you like to see re-shelled?
Turbografx and snes.

what price would you be comfortable paying for an item like this?
About the 2x cost of the console for the completed thing.

do you want extra features or not? Things like lighting, custom paint, personal logos and whatnot, etc.
Nope. Maybe a personal logo/artwork, but definitely no leds.

do you want to re-case the console yourself, or have me provide a service?
Sell the complete console so i don't have to cry while i bust one open.

do you want to preserve the original state of the internals? I.e. Do you want to be able to easily slap the guts back into the original shell, or are you interested in something that has been modified to fit into a vastly different casing, or has repositioned switches, or whatever?
Modified permanently, thus above.

are you even interested in this idea at all?
Depends on the outcome.

[/quote]

hth.

Not sure if the US HW architecture supports it, but PAL carts are a different shape. Generally people buy redesigns like this in order to support all formats, which would be a good selling point IMO. Your core audience will likely be collectors and many games for the system (good ones too) were never released in the states. Just an idea when designing this.

I won't be touching the hardware, so if someone wants to play PAL games in an NTSC region, then they'll have to figure something out for themselves. I've never known the SNES for its bulk of desirable PAL games, so I can't imagine that would be much of a selling point if I were to offer PAL compatibility.

But, just like the normal US models of SNS-001/101, these will play NTSC-J games. Playing import games on a US SNES has never been a difficult thing to do. The carts fit, there's just two tabs in the console that keep the carts from being pressed all the way in. Just snap 'em off. Hell, if folks want the nostalgia, I'll even include breakaway tabs in my shells

Yeah, I knew about the Japanese carts but I figured you wouldn't include the tabs since this is a redesign. Kind of surprised you'd even consider putting them in.

I was thinking about putting one of my NESes into a toaster shell...I think you are a little more advanced at this than me. :lol:

[quote name='Jodou']Yeah, I knew about the Japanese carts but I figured you wouldn't include the tabs since this is a redesign. Kind of surprised you'd even consider putting them in.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't planning on including them initially, but it sort of seemed like it might be a fun little thing to add for authenticity

I'd make them breakaway anyway. Popping them out wouldn't require a chisel or Dremel, just pop 'em off with your bare hands

[quote name='slowdive21']I was thinking about putting one of my NESes into a toaster shell...I think you are a little more advanced at this than me. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Do it! The two ideas were dreamed up for totally different purposes. I'm planning on a retail product, and you're planning on making an art piece for yourself. Mine requires a lot of 3D modeling and whatnot, but it'll plop right in to the new shell when all is said and done. Yours is gonna take a LOT of custom work to make fit into something that were never intended to house a SNES.

[quote name='wiggyx']

• Crazy spaceship looking, high-design, or something else?
• Modern design would be preferable. No high-gloss fingerprint magnet finishes though.
• What consoles would you like to see re-shelled?
• NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, Genesis w/32x and CD, Saturn
• What price would you be comfortable paying for an item like this?
• Hard to say without seeing the final product, but I'd probably agree with 2x console cost. Although, I don't know if that would include the actual console or not. Probably not more than $100, especially for the older, cheaper consoles. (Also, remember this is CAG, our suggestions might be on the low side.)
• Do you want extra features or not? Things like lighting, custom paint, personal logos and whatnot, etc.
• Coloring them based on their original colors could be nice. Just use Famicom instead of NES for color scheming please.
• Do you want to re-case the console yourself, or have me provide a service?
• Service. Last time I opened a console up, it wouldn't go back together.
• Do you want to preserve the original state of the internals? I.e. Do you want to be able to easily slap the guts back into the original shell, or are you interested in something that has been modified to fit into a vastly different casing, or has repositioned switches, or whatever?
• Doesn't particularly matter to me. I'd prefer non-outlandish designs though. If I wanted something that didn't look like it fits in an entertainment center, I'd use the original consoles.
• Are you even interested in this idea at all?
• Yes

[/QUOTE]

Seems like a cool idea. Hopefully it'll work out for you!

[quote name='wiggyx']

Crazy spaceship looking, high-design, or something else?
Something modern, but at the same time something that isn't too crazy. Something that can fit in an entertainment center. Also whatever you do, please make sure the case doesn't discolor after a few years like some consoles.

What consoles would you like to see re-shelled?
NES, Genesis (with Sega CD and 32X), SNES, N64

What price would you be comfortable paying for an item like this?
$100 max for easy to find US system but if it's a rare or import system $100+cost of system, and it would have to come with controller, system, cables, etc.

Do you want extra features or not? Things like lighting, custom paint, personal logos and whatnot, etc.
No led's except for an indicator light that it's on. I want it to look modern but I don't want it to be all flashy either. I want it to have just basically a reskin of the old hardware to look nice. No personal logos, just the logo of the console and maker.

Do you want to re-case the console yourself, or have me provide a service?
I would like a service, but I also think it would be an idea to just provide the case as at a lower cost.

Do you want to preserve the original state of the internals? I.e. Do you want to be able to easily slap the guts back into the original shell, or are you interested in something that has been modified to fit into a vastly different casing, or has repositioned switches, or whatever?
Doesn't matter, but if the board is modified, the console better have some type of warranty or guarantee on it. I don't want to spend all this money and have it die in under a year.

Are you even interested in this idea at all?
Depends on prices. Maybe not at the moment, but in a few years when I get my own place and such, sure I would be.
[/QUOTE]

This is a really cool idea. I see these clones floating around, but they usually have problems, or don't play every game. This would fix the problem and have something visually pleasing and a conversation piece.

Super helpful stuff guys, thanks! You're telling the exact sorts of things that I need to hear

Despite beeing quite ill this week, I made a little progress.

Created info label for the bottom of the system and got a price quote. They'll be silver foil stickers just like on the original units

Meeting on Monday with manufacturer at about noon, Eastern Standard time. I should have at least an idea about pricing at that point.

Looking at prices for wireless controller parts. I don't really want to redesign controllers since it would be extra work, extra $$$, and sorta pointless since the SNES controller is such an excellent design in the 1st place. If I do, it won't be a "re-design" so much as a revision that would allow me to more easily pack wireless bits inside and mount points for a discreet on/off switch & LED indicator.


I will be offering S-Video and SCART upgrades to those that are interested. The parts are cheap, and I'll save headache by pre-wiring "kits" so that I can just slap em in without having to measure wire length and whatnot for every unit that I mod. $110% worth it IMO.

Not much else going on. New rendering software doesn't like my video card. So no new renders yet. Gonna pull out the old PC and try on it instead.

More to come...

Had a great meeting with the manufacturer today! This project seems entirely doable on almost any scale, whether I sell 5 or 5,000 Material choices ended up being a lot more plentiful than expected. Here's a little teaser























Of course plastics are still in as well.

So, I need to crank out a complete assembly of parts (what you guys are looking at was build as one, solid chunk for appearance purposes). I hope you guys are as excited as I am! If all goes well, I should have the 1st prototype in my hands in about 2-3 weeks, tops

Once I have some prices sorted out, I'll probably build a kickstarter page. I don't need a big startup fund, but it would help me create a far more complete product (packaging, website, etc.). I'm thinking polished aluminum and purple heart for the $1,000 donation mark

I recommend the Sega Satoaster for months and you do this? :O

Oh well. Wood grain SNES will be cool.

While I'm not actually interested in the final product, I do appreciate your abilities (I saw one of your other thrads a couple weeks back and enjoyed those mods). Quick question though... are there any legal hoops you have to jump through since you are selling these as opposed to making them for your own personal use? Just curious..

[quote name='Warner1281']While I'm not actually interested in the final product, I do appreciate your abilities (I saw one of your other thrads a couple weeks back and enjoyed those mods). Quick question though... are there any legal hoops you have to jump through since you are selling these as opposed to making them for your own personal use? Just curious..[/QUOTE]

I doubt it. He's not manufacturing the console innards, he's merely putting them into a new case, so it really falls under the same category as selling a used console.

Also, totally prefer metal to wood, if you can only choose 1 option in the end.

[quote name='wiggyx']




[/quote]

DO WANT.

[quote name='Cthulhu']I recommend the Sega Satoaster for months and you do this? :O

Oh well. Wood grain SNES will be cool.[/QUOTE]

I picked the SNS-101 for a few reasons. 1, I've always wanted one and this gave me a reason to buy one (or two). 2, it's small, incredibly simple, and both of those things make it one of the easier, if not easiest to re-shell. 3, the SNES has a HUGE collector following that just seems to be growing right now.


But, don't despair. As long as I have at least moderate success with this project, there will be other consoles to follow. The NEO GEO MVS 1 & 2 slots are up next, and then others to follow that as long as there's demand

[quote name='Warner1281']While I'm not actually interested in the final product, I do appreciate your abilities (I saw one of your other thrads a couple weeks back and enjoyed those mods). Quick question though... are there any legal hoops you have to jump through since you are selling these as opposed to making them for your own personal use? Just curious..[/QUOTE]

No, shouldn't be. The final product won't bear the Nintendo or Super Nintendo logos. I put them there just to help illustrate what I'm doing. Other than that, what I'm selling is really no different from an iPod case or cell phone skin. It's just a hunk of plastic (or some other material) to put a device that you own into. The same as all those Xbox 360 clear shells and whatnot.

[quote name='JasonTerminator']I doubt it. He's not manufacturing the console innards, he's merely putting them into a new case, so it really falls under the same category as selling a used console.

Also, totally prefer metal to wood, if you can only choose 1 option in the end.[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine that any of the patents for the SNES have may years left on them anyway. Based on all the clones out there, I bet they're already done. But, like you said, that's not what I'm doing anyway

There's no reason that I have to choose just ONE material. It's been made clear to me that I can do runs as small as a few units all the way up to thousands at a time. The cost of making them from wood, of all the materials, would be almost identical in price whether I order 1 or 100. It's always going to be built using a subtractive method like CNC, so volume won't do much to the price. Metal parts would likely be in the form of extrusions, which is cheap as far as parts that require unique tooling be built. Hell, I could have a plaster mold CNC'd and make some carbon fiber units if that's what people want. Sky's the limit!

I may setup a kickstarter page, and if I do, you better believe that the top tier donation rewards will be pretty special, unique cases


[quote name='HeroOfTime']
DO WANT.

[/QUOTE]

Gladly LOL!

Been working hard all week getting the model refined and whatnot. Soon...

Is it your intent to just sell the cases you're designing or already manufactured and put together?

Both.

I plan on offering upgrades such as LED power indicator, S-Video/SCART upgrades, etc. So, people will be able to buy the shell, complete console, shell with upgrade parts, upgraded console, etc.

I'm also considering offering wireless controllers. Just trying to work out a reasonable price for parts and and decide whether I want/need to design a replacement controller shell to make housing the wireless parts easier (wouldn't change the overall shape, just adjust small things here and there to help clean up the mod).

About the only thing I'd probably want in a console is a PS3's guts slapped inside a PC case with enough fans to keep it cool. I actually have a 60gb PS3 that's not reading discs right now that I'm considering experimenting with in an old PC tower I have(from my first PC which is kinda kaput).

I don't even wanna make some fancy designs on the outside of the case. I just wanna get the system up n running inside a PC tower, preferably with a LOT of fans to keep the components of the system from melting down.:lol:

You think something like that is doable?

I'm not really looking to do current gen systems at all, and if I were, I'd be doing them like the SNES that I modeled up. I.e. something very different from the original or anything else out there, not just a PC tower or anything like that.

I can't imagine it'd be too tricky to re-kajigger PS3 guts into a PC tower of some sort. If I weren't so busy with this and a couple of other projects, then I'd offer to do something like that for ya (stuff it into a PC tower). Someone here can prolly help you out with that, I'd imagine

Quick update. The doors in the front were going to make the unit a bit too pricey. The controller ports are obviously exposed now, but still rather tidy IMO. Does that bother anyone terribly?

Hopefully I'll have the model ready for a prototype by Friday.

still looks good to me.

[quote name='DCpinoy']still looks good to me.[/QUOTE]

What he said.

Awesome, thanks!

A couple of guys on the cover project had an idea about covering the ports with a lot less effort and expense. I'll mock it up soon and post it up to get some feedback.

Done yet Wiggy?

OP you're too talented for this chickenscratch. You should be working for a major console developer and showing them how it's done (you could start with the dumbass that designed the Wii U console...)

[quote name='Cthulhu']Done yet Wiggy?[/QUOTE]

Just putting the finishing touches on it. I'll probably send the file out tomorrow for prototyping as long as I don't run into any snafus

[quote name='camoor']OP you're too talented for this chickenscratch. You should be working for a major console developer and showing them how it's done (you could start with the dumbass that designed the Wii U console...)[/QUOTE]

LOL, thanks!

I'm pretty happy doing this on my own. Nobody tells me what to do, which is pretty great

Model is done! Here's a quick preview of one of the parts. There ended up being a lot more engineering required than I initially thought, but it's all sorted out now and everything works without issue (in the model at least). Hopefully I'll have a prototype in a week or two!

I don't really know what in the hell is going on in this thread, but I think I like it.

Have you compensated for heat in your models? The SNES/NES don't really run hot, but you may want to add some bottom or back vents.

[quote name='Strell']I don't really know what in the hell is going on in this thread, but I think I like it.[/QUOTE]

LOL!

[quote name='slowdive21']Have you compensated for heat in your models? The SNES/NES don't really run hot, but you may want to add some bottom or back vents.[/QUOTE]

I sure did

Initially I thought of adding a fan and reducing the size of the heat sink so I could make it even more compact, but that's just too much and it didn't really afford me that much more room to work with. But either way, there is some venting to help keep her cool

i do have disposable income i wont lie about that, but theres a difference in working part time at mcdonalds and working full time now as an adult.. and that difference is 80% of my money is being thrown away on adult bills


damn you america

Glad to see you taking this stuff further, Wiggy. What are you software are you prototyping in? Those ortho views still mess with my eyes

You going 3D prints for the prototype or full on, plastic fabrication? Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Beauty of that design is that you can just stick with the plastic and toss on a wood finish if you want to go "classic." Lotta cool room for customization there. You prototyping so that the shell is just a two-piece? Looks like it's gonna go together pretty smoothly.

Excited for updates. Just out of curiosity, is your career in design? Industrial or otherwise?

I don't suppose you could possibly design a shell that's mean for... front loading somehow? These units would still look pretty odd with the cart sticking out of the top, not to mention that a lot of media shelves today are designed to hold shorter devices since most devices are front loaded (like DVD/BD players) or not loaded at all (set up box players, cable boxes, DVRs).

My idea is: have the shell connected to the gut's cart input and then a built in connector on the shell that allows for front loading (possibly like the NES with a cover too for added slick-ness).

It's probably a lot more complicated than I'm making it but figuring it out is your job.

[quote name='Vinny'](possibly like the NES with a cover too for added slick-ness). [/QUOTE]

Using slick and NES in the same sentence is pretty damn funny.

[quote name='timesplitt']i do have disposable income i wont lie about that, but theres a difference in working part time at mcdonalds and working full time now as an adult.. and that difference is 80% of my money is being thrown away on adult bills


damn you america[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. The more my wife and I make, the more expense we seem to incur :/

[quote name='IanKazimer']Glad to see you taking this stuff further, Wiggy. What are you software are you prototyping in? Those ortho views still mess with my eyes

You going 3D prints for the prototype or full on, plastic fabrication? Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Beauty of that design is that you can just stick with the plastic and toss on a wood finish if you want to go "classic." Lotta cool room for customization there. You prototyping so that the shell is just a two-piece? Looks like it's gonna go together pretty smoothly.

Excited for updates. Just out of curiosity, is your career in design? Industrial or otherwise?[/QUOTE]

SolidWorks 2009 & Machined ABS most likely. They're pretty small parts with fairly tight tolerances, so I'd rather go with something that will be as close to the final product as possible in order to check those tolerances.

Yeah, that's part of why I went with simple, flat surfaces. It will indeed be easy to add custom graphics, materials, etc. . Right now I'm at 9 parts. It seems like a lot, but that's pretty much the least amount of parts I can get away with for my design unless I were to combine the power and reset buttons (which could be cool, but might prove impractical).

Top half
Bottom half
2 side panels
Power button
Reset button
2 cartridge bay doors
Cartridge bay shroud (keeps doors in place and protects innards when doors are open)

The OEM SNS-101 shell is made up of 7 parts, so I'm not really too far out there or anything.

Yup, I'm an Industrial Designer. I've been slowly starting my own business over the last few years. I like doing products like these that are sort or unique and can be resolved by my massive staff of me, myself, and I LOL!

[quote name='Vinny']I don't suppose you could possibly design a shell that's mean for... front loading somehow? These units would still look pretty odd with the cart sticking out of the top, not to mention that a lot of media shelves today are designed to hold shorter devices since most devices are front loaded (like DVD/BD players) or not loaded at all (set up box players, cable boxes, DVRs).

My idea is: have the shell connected to the gut's cart input and then a built in connector on the shell that allows for front loading (possibly like the NES with a cover too for added slick-ness).

It's probably a lot more complicated than I'm making it but figuring it out is your job.[/QUOTE]

Believe me, that was what I (and many other folks) wanted from the get-go. But, that would have been a FAR more complicated build, which of course means more $$$.

If this proves to be a financially viable product for me (I.e. I actually make some money), then I'll gladly, GLADLY design some more complicated parts as long as there is a customer base willing to plunk down the bucks

There's one particular design that quite a few folks over on the cover project have been clamoring for, and that's the SNESation (SNES Playstation concept). Mashing a PSone and SNS-101 into a shell like the concept isn't at all impossible, but it will take a lot more work and a lot more moolah.

You best not go directly from SNES to SNES. The Sega Satoaster is aching for a place in my game room.

No no, the Consolized MVS is next. I'll get to your toaster at some point

[quote name='wiggyx']No no, the Consolized MVS is next. I'll get to your toaster at some point [/QUOTE]

Stop cutting in on my toaster-console business! I already have Nintoaster trademarked.


Ahh crap, I just did a google image search...I guess I am out of business. #-o

[quote name='slowdive21']Stop cutting in on my toaster-console business! I already have Nintoaster trademarked.


Ahh crap, I just did a google image search...I guess I am out of business. #-o[/QUOTE]

Oh my god IT'S GLORIOUS

This is a really cool idea. I like having an authentic console (no matter how much it stands out) but I like your idea of re-skinning the actual hardware rather than making a third-party console.

Thanks!

I'm definitely not a fan of all the clones either. I ONLY want original hardware for my games. That said, the good thing about what I'm doing is that you absolutely do NOT have to modify the original hardware. You can swap the guts into the new shell and keep the original if you ever want to switch back. 12 screws, 2 springs, and that's it

How about now, prototype ready?

[quote name='wiggyx']Thanks!

I'm definitely not a fan of all the clones either. I ONLY want original hardware for my games. That said, the good thing about what I'm doing is that you absolutely do NOT have to modify the original hardware. You can swap the guts into the new shell and keep the original if you ever want to switch back. 12 screws, 2 springs, and that's it [/QUOTE]

I regret buying a Retro Duo... shit works perfectly with 99% of games but somehow doesn't work with two of the most popular games: Super Mario RPG and Castlevania 3. WTF?!

[quote name='Cthulhu']How about now, prototype ready? [/QUOTE]

Not yet. It's on its way though

[quote name='Vinny']I regret buying a Retro Duo... shit works perfectly with 99% of games but somehow doesn't work with two of the most popular games: Super Mario RPG and Castlevania 3. WTF?![/QUOTE]

I'm not surprised about SMRPG or any of the titles with an extra chipset built into the cart. That blows though :/

Well, the proto is on its way, but it's gonna need some color as its being machined from raw white ABS. So, I figured I'd ask you guys and gals for some opinions. I want to get a Kickstarter page up ASAP, and having some nice photos of a complete painted proto will obviously be a big plus. So, let me know what you think! Here are a few quickies to get started

















I'm also considering making matching cart shells.

I like the red one, but I desire that woodgrain one you posted earlier. Also I don't feel cart shells is really viable..unless you plan on selling to repro and homebrew guys. They'll love that stuff.

I can't do wood for the proto, but it is possible to do so for a production unit (although it would be fairly pricey).

For the prototype you should realistically be doing whichever one looks the most like a modernized snes, right?