38 studios close to bankruptcy

@GBAstar, I haven't bumped into their other games aside from KoA, but what got my attention is that the government gave it a loan, :)
 
Kingdoms of Amalur is actually made by Big Huge Games, which isn't even in RI. The problem is the MMO that 38 Studios is working on. I know curt schilling is a big fan of Everquest and WoW, but that probably not enough to develop a game from the ground up
 
Nowadays, 300k sales isn't really a success for any game, especially a high profile marketed-to-the-ends-of-the-Earth game. Especially one touted as "competition for Skyrim" ( which it in no way, shape, or form was comparable to ANY TES game in mechanics or anything else ) in advertisements and PR pieces. When you take into consideration development costs, salaries for those bignames, over the top advertisement blitz,etc., I'd be surprised if they even came close to breaking even.
 
[quote name='Kannaaashi']Nowadays, 300k sales isn't really a success for any game, especially a high profile marketed-to-the-ends-of-the-Earth game. Especially one touted as "competition for Skyrim" ( which it in no way, shape, or form was comparable to ANY TES game in mechanics or anything else ) in advertisements and PR pieces. When you take into consideration development costs, salaries for those bignames, over the top advertisement blitz,etc., I'd be surprised if they even came close to breaking even.[/QUOTE]

Well, in their defense, there isn't much out there or on the horizon that can compete with Skyrim. At least, considering newer games, that is.

In my opinion, anyway.
 
[quote name='Kannaaashi']Nowadays, 300k sales isn't really a success for any game, especially a high profile marketed-to-the-ends-of-the-Earth game. Especially one touted as "competition for Skyrim" ( which it in no way, shape, or form was comparable to ANY TES game in mechanics or anything else ) in advertisements and PR pieces. When you take into consideration development costs, salaries for those bignames, over the top advertisement blitz,etc., I'd be surprised if they even came close to breaking even.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree the sales must match up to the development costs, but I'm pretty sure the official numbers are 440K sold in the US across consoles not including PC/digital/steam & Origin. EA considered Amalur a success in their recent public investors report citing the game as part of their quarterly profits, however who knows if they will fund a Reckoning2, or how much of those profits went back to the devs?
 
I personally think the game should of been delayed and release during the summer instead of February. People had to pay there bills from the holidays and begin filing taxes. Plus the fact everybody was in Mass Effect hype mode. Not much people are going to be willing to spend what little money they had during February for an unknown IP.
 
Personally for me it wasn't about the timing of KOA, I mean I bought the game. There just wasn't anything that made the game stand out besides the combat. It just felt like lets throw in features from every other rpg and hope they enjoy the combat. The experience was kinda meh to me, and well it's sad to see any developer have to face this.

I think they planned on KOA being this big franchise and MMO but in the end, things didn't work out that way.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']Personally for me it wasn't about the timing of KOA, I mean I bought the game. There just wasn't anything that made the game stand out besides the combat. It just felt like lets throw in features from every other rpg and hope they enjoy the combat. The experience was kinda meh to me, and well it's sad to see any developer have to face this.

I think they planned on KOA being this big franchise and MMO but in the end, things didn't work out that way.[/QUOTE]

same goes for me, I think I read something about this.. that KoA was supposedly an MMO, but after 2 years of development, they rushed the game and made it a single player.
 
[quote name='htz']I personally think the game should of been delayed and release during the summer instead of February. People had to pay there bills from the holidays and begin filing taxes. Plus the fact everybody was in Mass Effect hype mode. Not much people are going to be willing to spend what little money they had during February for an unknown IP.[/QUOTE]
you have pointed one of the reasons why some games have poor sales, I mean, they should have thought of things like that.. wrong timing can you pretty hard.
 
[quote name='Scorch']I saw the thread title and I was like "Wow, that's a ton of studios, I wonder what happened?"

:dunce:[/QUOTE]
No worries, I did the same thing... then I was like, "Ohhh, that 38 Studios!" :dunce:
 
I personally think the game should of been delayed and release during the summer instead of February. People had to pay there bills from the holidays and begin filing taxes. Plus the fact everybody was in Mass Effect hype mode. Not much people are going to be willing to spend what little money they had during February for an unknown IP.

I dunno... I can sort of understand the part about releasing so close to ME 3, but it doesn't seem like an issue of finances at home. There are quite a few games that have released in the 1st quarter that have done well enough, off the top of my head we had ME 2 and 3, a crap ton of Sony games, Crysis 2... next year we'll have some other heavy hitters like Bioshock Infinite and the new Tomb Raider coming in between january and march. I might actually think it's the second biggest gaming quarter right behind fall.
 
http://deadspin.com/5910878/curt-schilling-wants-a-government-bailout

Curt Shilling: Typical do as I say not as I do Republican. Next time he opens his mouth regarding politics I hope everyone points out that how big a hypocrite this joke is. Relying on oneself for their own survival does not include getting handouts from the government and then either going bankrupt or holding the state hostage for more money.

ESPN should fire him for being such an irresponsible dick. This is worse than Barnaby driving on his rims and Phillips fucking an intern (something everyone has done at ESPN according to the ESPN book).
 
Man, I was hoping for an eventual KoA "complete" edition that I could grab for around $30. I liked the demo, I just had/have too much other stuff to play at the moment.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']http://deadspin.com/5910878/curt-schilling-wants-a-government-bailout

Curt Shilling: Typical do as I say not as I do Republican. Next time he opens his mouth regarding politics I hope everyone points out that how big a hypocrite this joke is. Relying on oneself for their own survival does not include getting handouts from the government and then either going bankrupt or holding the state hostage for more money.

ESPN should fire him for being such an irresponsible dick. This is worse than Barnaby driving on his rims and Phillips fucking an intern (something everyone has done at ESPN according to the ESPN book).[/QUOTE]
Wow, what an asshole. I mean asking for a bailout when your game fails because it was a bad idea to start with (since it was a new fantasy RPG with a new IP and a new studio). That's just making you look like a foolish idiot. I also feed bad for the people of Rhode Island who funded this.
 
Aw man. I really thought KoA had a lot of promise. Not a perfect game, but for a first game from a new studio it was really good. A sequel with better loot (my only real complaint is that there are only a handful of unique models for each type of item. It's almost entirley just name/stat adjustments the whole damned game) and a bit more story focus would be a game to be... reckoned with...
 
Remember this is the rough timeline:
38 Studios is founded to make Project Copernicus ie Amalur MMO

38 Studios buys Big Huge Games when THQ dumps them

38 Studios decides to take Big Huge Games action RPG and set it in the Amalur universe to help raise awareness of the Amalur world. 38 Studios also seeks more money and gets offer from Rhode Island

38 Studios helps Big Huge finish up Reckoning. Being an EA Partner game, EA does zero marketing for the game, 38 can't buy that many ads, EA decides to put it out before ME 3 but only by 1 month. Sales are decent (1M worldwide so far) but not enough as it came out while Skyrim was still selling and it soon faced competition from ME 3, Witcher 2, & Diablo 3.

Meanwhile 38 has blown through the $75 M and hasn't gotten enough money from Amalur to keep them solvent. To make their first loan payment they've had to not pay their employees and fire all temp/contract workers.

If things don't change and 38 goes belly up, Rhode Island has to pay $120M after interest in payments through the next 8 years as they only arranged for the loan privately, the $75 M did not come from the state directly.

Only silver lining (and a slight one at that) is RI could sell off the Amalur IP (Reckoning, Copernicus, and other assets) to pay off some but not all of the loan as they would now own it.
 
KoA is a good game. It's just not interesting. And that's what killed it for me, even after pouring nearly 20 hours into it. I went back again for about 30 minutes a couple of weeks ago... And became bored rather quickly. Again. I'm saddened by this because I enjoy the combat, and a lot of the various RPG elements. I even think the brand has major potential and a lot of rather talented individuals put some great work into this game. But the story kills me though, and that's a major problem to me unless the game is only 8-10 hours long.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']http://deadspin.com/5910878/curt-schilling-wants-a-government-bailout

Curt Shilling: Typical do as I say not as I do Republican. Next time he opens his mouth regarding politics I hope everyone points out that how big a hypocrite this joke is. Relying on oneself for their own survival does not include getting handouts from the government and then either going bankrupt or holding the state hostage for more money.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with what you said. Good thing he's all about personal responsibility though, right?
 
Wow, this is getting uglier by the day... the guy who approved the loan resigns and the state returned a check that 38 wrote and their CFO later said they can't pay it and they can't make payroll.

Oh, and the people could end up paying $112 instead of $75.
 
so why did Rhode Island think this is a good idea to give $75 mil to an unproven company? I know Montreal also does something similar, but they work with established company like EA and Ubisoft.
 
I played the demo. While I enjoyed the battles, there was way too much talking and too many sidequests. At least I think they were, they could have been about the story but I was glad when the hour was up and the Mass Effect 3 stuff was unlocked.
 
This is what really pisses me off:
In July 2010, the same month the EDC approved the loan guarantee, 38 Studios established a revolving line of credit with Schilling so it could borrow up to $4 million from him, according to the disclosure filing obtained by WPRI.com. Part of the taxpayer-guaranteed loan money was used to pay Schilling back.
So he can get paid back, but not us? I have to use my tax dollars to pay for his horrible management, but he gets his 4 million dollars back.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']This is what really pisses me off:

So he can get paid back, but not us? I have to use my tax dollars to pay for his horrible management, but he gets his 4 million dollars back.[/QUOTE]

Ouch, that's definitely not good. It's his company, if he wants to put his own money into it, then that's fine. Using any other money other than what his company makes - after paying off their loan - to pay himself back should be completely off limits.
 
KoA wasn't a killer game, let's be honest. Very uninspired world that probably was very expensive to create, and environment and enemy variety dipped to horrible degrees of tedium after only a few hours. That ending gauntlet was embarrassing.

Awful news, and I'm not saying there isn't talent on that team -- it's just KoA felt like it was directed by one guy with some fantasy he wanted to see worked into a game. Unfortunately he had a very boring imagination.
 
It's pretty much official now, "38 Studios" is shuttered. They laid off the entire staff and closed the studios:
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/5/24/3041662/38-studios-lays-off-entire-staff
(It's not just the Verge reporting this, as Kotaku's sources and some of the devs on NeoGAF said the same thing, it just needs to be announced)

Big Huge Games is also closed, which is particularly unfortunate, since they were the ones who actually released something (Reckoning) that sold well (over a million units worldwide according to Schilling). It looks like the MMO turned out to be a monetary black hole.
 
This is far more about mismanagement surrounding Project Copernicus than it is about Reckoning.

Any developer or publisher who is looking to make an actionbar-driven monthly-fee-charging MMO needs to cancel that shit right now.

You can try something more unique with combat or go free-to-play or whatever but that old actionbar/monthly fee model is fucking dead unless your paychecks say 'Blizzard' on them.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']This is far more about mismanagement surrounding Project Copernicus than it is about Reckoning.

Any developer or publisher who is looking to make an actionbar-driven monthly-fee-charging MMO needs to cancel that shit right now.

You can try something more unique with combat or go free-to-play or whatever but that old actionbar/monthly fee model is fucking dead unless your paychecks say 'Blizzard' on them.[/QUOTE]

Looking at u Zenimax Online ...
 
Now the real fun begins for Rhode Island.

Curt Schilling and his team of hack executives should DIAF. Those poor employees who haven't been paid in a month and have lost their health insurance with no notice: I wish them the best of luck and I hope they find better jobs soon.
 
The whole situation is very unfortunate. Certainly while it is not Lincoln Chaffee's doing as he was against it from the beginning, the guy is also a fraud who wanted this deal to fail. He inherited it and from the apparent lack of oversight on his end, does not seem to have done anything other than watch it go down in flames. I simply don't believe him when he said he wanted them to do well -- it's all about politics, and he can look like the guy on the white horse who rode in and said "I told you so." Even the General Treasurer of the state said companies typically do not fail overnight -- and this one probably didn't either. Of course the Governor doesn't share information with her because she's probably going to run against him in a couple of years. (This is why most Rhode Islanders refer to him as Governor Gump. The guy won the vote by 2% and yet governs like he's the king of the world).

Chaffee's statement that the game was an "Adject Failure" from the "experts" he's spoken to is also grossly inaccurate. It may have been in terms of sales, but they did not produce a poor game -- far from it. He comes off talking like 38 Studios and the people who worked on the game sat on their behinds the whole time leeching off the taxpayers. They DID produce a quality game, if nothing else, though obviously the sales are the thing.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but everyone looks bad in this. The former Republican governor for greenlighting it -- along with the state Democrats in the house who all supported it (in fact, the only opposition was from one Republican rep at the time). Now we have an Independent Governor (really a liberal democrat) who's also riding the partisan political wave in a state that is overwhelmingly democratic (and corrupt at most legislative levels).

The people who get screwed are us and the idiots who keep electing these people in this state. It frustrates me to no end -- as someone who lives here, it's painful at times.
 
It's just hard to imagine how anyone in the RI state government thought it was worth a $75 million gamble to import a small, unproven game dev with a couple hundred employees. Kingdoms of Amalur didn't even do that badly for a brand new IP, didn't it sell between 1 and 2 million copies? I remember when Borderlands sold 2 million copies and it was hailed as a major sleeper hit for a new IP.

But even if Reckoning had been a blockbuster success and kept the studio alive, how many years would it have taken a small dev studio to generate $75 million in tax revenue? Seems like it would be a long time.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']This is far more about mismanagement surrounding Project Copernicus than it is about Reckoning.

Any developer or publisher who is looking to make an actionbar-driven monthly-fee-charging MMO needs to cancel that shit right now.

You can try something more unique with combat or go free-to-play or whatever but that old actionbar/monthly fee model is fucking dead unless your paychecks say 'Blizzard' on them.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree, I can't fault any lander for not sending in good money after bad.

You've got to be insane to try an MMO with a new IP when established IPs like LOTR and Star Wars are having such a tough go.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']It's just hard to imagine how anyone in the RI state government thought it was worth a $75 million gamble to import a small, unproven game dev with a couple hundred employees. Kingdoms of Amalur didn't even do that badly for a brand new IP, didn't it sell between 1 and 2 million copies? I remember when Borderlands sold 2 million copies and it was hailed as a major sleeper hit for a new IP.

But even if Reckoning had been a blockbuster success and kept the studio alive, how many years would it have taken a small dev studio to generate $75 million in tax revenue? Seems like it would be a long time.[/QUOTE]If their target for break-even on a new IP was 3 million units, the state of RI should have run away from that deal.
 
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