It's rough for lawyers

Open Job At Boston Law Firm Pays Just $10,000 Per Year

Larry O’Bryan, one of the firm’s partners, said he’s received about 32 applications for the $10K per year job, since posting it one week ago. He said that while the pay is low, the lawyer who is eventually hired will gain valuable experience.

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http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/open-job-at-boston-law-firm-pays-just-10000-per-year/

As the article points out, that's less then minimum wage. That's not right!

If it's less than minimum wage, I can't see how they can offer the position at that salary.

Sounds like an elaborate setup to a Dewey, Cheatem & Howe joke.

[quote name='shrike4242']If it's less than minimum wage, I can't see how they can offer the position at that salary.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, to quote the article further:

On its face, a job that pays $10K annually for a full-time lawyer raises serious questions about whether the firm is in compliance with wage and hour laws, said Josh Davis, an employment partner with Boston-based Goulston & Storrs.

“In general an employee who is not exempt from wage and hour requirements has to be paid minimum wage for every hour they work,” said Davis. “If an exemption applies, that may not be true.”

There is a professional exemption for professionals like lawyers and doctors, but in those cases people must still be paid around $450 per week, said Davis.

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I know people are desperate for work still, but that pay is just insulting and I'd say almost all of the time you don't want to work for anyone that would seriously post a job with a salary like that. Whoever takes this job is already overworked and underpaid the second they sign the employment contract, and it'll only get worse from there. What a scummy sounding law firm.

[quote name='kodave']I know people are desperate for work still, but that pay is just insulting and I'd say almost all of the time you don't want to work for anyone that would seriously post a job with a salary like that. Whoever takes this job is already overworked and underpaid the second they sign the employment contract, and it'll only get worse from there. What a scummy sounding law firm.[/QUOTE]

last sentence is a little redundant...

Plus, if you are making 10k, how much respect do you think you'll get from your peers? You're better off getting experience as a volunteer somewhere and working at mcdonalds.

The janitor makes more than you.

sounds good to me. A critical aspect of running a business is to pay your employees as little as possible while still being productive. If people are willing to work for that and do a good enough job then win win.

[quote name='mrspicytacoman']sounds good to me. A critical aspect of running a business is to pay your employees as little as possible while still being productive. If people are willing to work for that and do a good enough job then win win.[/QUOTE]

I would never do business with that law firm because they are paying their employees next-to-nothing and turning around and charging their clients big bucks on an hourly basis. The employees have no motivation to do a good job and therefore the client isn't getting what he paid for. Plus there is a good chance they are violating labor law.

A good businessman values his reputation and is willing to pay for quality workers. A poor businessman tries to shortchange everyone and as a result runs into nothing but problems.

you figure private practice lawyers dont get paid unless they actually have paying cases and even then most dont get paid until the case is closed and/or they win somehow, while it may seem like a crap opportunity it is an opportunity...it's up to the lawyer to apply or not, and if they are an out of work lawyer this is something they can add to their resume and hopefully move to a more appropriate paying position down the road.

I'd rather be a lawyer making 10k at a law firm temporarily than be an out of work lawyer working at mcdonald's as a cashier or flipping burgers. Unless it's taco bell, then everyone who works taco bell corporate has to work at a taco bell for a period.

but as mentioned earlier, i would likely never use them as legal representation because of what they're paying their employees.

That is just insulting. I can easily run up $10,000 in billable fees in around 2-3 days of work (which I do all year long). God damn I hate law firms and all of the assholes lawyers associated with them.

so if they pay minimum wage it will go up to $23,400

if they offer a good benefits packages, a lot of ppl these days will take a paycut just to get benefits...even if it's an insulting amount.

speaking of insulting, the number of posts on CL's asking artist to work for "credit" and/or $50 for logo design is ridiculous, but ppl will still take those jobs because they're desparate. the one that gets me the most is, submit design ideas and we'll pick the winner and pay them $100 for logo design. I want to smack them, including the artists hungry enough to buy into that.

Reminds me of some of the It jobs I've seen posted on CL. Basiclaly asking someone to be the IT deprtment for maybe $40,000. That's not bad for a starting position, but not for what they (the employer) want. I'm sure they'd get somebody though, because like you said, people are desperate.

It would sure be interesting if someone took the job, then went ahead shredded a bunch of important paperwork and shit on the various board of director's desks.

$10,000 well spent.

Nice to see that we're on to giving our own citizens the "illegal alien" treatment. Eventually, society will decide it's had enough and the entire structure will break down. I don't see any other possible way this could end. I'm going to have a good laugh when all these graduates with $30K+ in student loans just tell the banks to off. The amount of debt in this country is going to become Monopoly money. Getting closer to it every day.

[quote name='100xp']if they offer a good benefits packages, a lot of ppl these days will take a paycut just to get benefits...even if it's an insulting amount.

speaking of insulting, the number of posts on CL's asking artist to work for "credit" and/or $50 for logo design is ridiculous, but ppl will still take those jobs because they're desparate. the one that gets me the most is, submit design ideas and we'll pick the winner and pay them $100 for logo design. I want to smack them, including the artists hungry enough to buy into that.[/QUOTE]

I swear a CAG posted one of these here a few months ago.

[quote name='Calipso']It would sure be interesting if someone took the job, then went ahead shredded a bunch of important paperwork and shit on the various board of director's desks.

$10,000 well spent.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a newsletter?

The job listing has to be a joke, if they found some loophole to get around minimum wage we're all ed.

I used to have lunch all the time next to their office building. Its hilarious that they're paying someone less than 2 months rent(probably closer to a month). From their website, it looks like a 2 man operation and the only people that are applying for the job are those that can afford to take it, just like those non-paid internships. Hell, you can't hire a half-time receptionist, paralegal, or even a courier for that money per year. Even ing day-laborers make more than that.

It's not rough for people who are already lawyers, it's rough for graduates of law school because there aren't enough lawyer jobs to around. Just another reason to do your research before spending tens of thousands of dollars on a potentially worthless degree.

[quote name='Dead of Knight']It's not rough for people who are already lawyers, it's rough for graduates of law school because there aren't enough lawyer jobs to around. Just another reason to do your research before spending tens of thousands of dollars on a potentially worthless degree.[/QUOTE]

The problem is, the majority of guidance counselors and career advisors are dipshits and know absolutely nothing about today's world. Honestly, that's a general problem with anybody in the "has a career" crowd. Unless they've been unemployed in the last 5 years, they have no clue what it takes anymore.

The idea that your degree itself is worth something is a joke. What IS worth something is the ass kissing and brown nosing you do while you're in college (when people at least pretend to care about your existence). If I had it to do all over again, I'd go to school in the same town (or at least the same county) as where I wanted to work afterward, and I'd spend the entire time licking my professors' collective balls.

In today's job market, that is basically the only shot you have of getting a job with no experience (unless you were given a silver spoon by mommy and daddy). At least through your school, you can beg/bribe/con//blackmail/etc. one of your professors/deans/chancellors/etc. to convince one of their old golfing buddies that you're not completely worthless and might actually be able to do the job. There are so many displaced workers right now, without this, you're going to run into "not enough experience"...but you need experience to get experience...yup.

In the meantime, the grace period on your loan has run out, you're applying for deferments, and trying to get a shit job to pay the bills (which you're "overqualified" for). The application process is like putting your name into a hat. There's no human interaction anymore. Upload your resume online, fill out the application, click submit, and pray that you've won the lottery. Most companies also warn you not to call to follow up anymore because they're flooded with applications. So, you sit and wait and most likely never hear anything. You might as well be filling out surveys on "paid to surf" websites. This is the new "American Dream".

I wish I had gone into a field that has a bright future...like selling drugs, lol.

[quote name='Invicta 61']The job listing has to be a joke, if they found some loophole to get around minimum wage we're all ed.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of loopholes to get around minimum wage, I'm just not sure this is one of them.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']The application process is like putting your name into a hat. There's no human interaction anymore. Upload your resume online, fill out the application, click submit, and pray that you've won the lottery. Most companies also warn you not to call to follow up anymore because they're flooded with applications. So, you sit and wait and most likely never hear anything. You might as well be filling out surveys on "paid to surf" websites. This is the new "American Dream".[/QUOTE]

When it comes to white collar jobs, from my experience word-of-mouth is huge.

If an employer trusts someone, and he vouches for you, you have a huge leg up on the competition.

Now - there are always opportunities to make a cold start but as this article points out it's harder then ever these days. To me the listing is downright predatory and indicates what is wrong with the American job scene (and the vast income inequality in general)

[quote name='Clak']Reminds me of some of the It jobs I've seen posted on CL. Basiclaly asking someone to be the IT deprtment for maybe $40,000. That's not bad for a starting position, but not for what they (the employer) want. I'm sure they'd get somebody though, because like you said, people are desperate.[/QUOTE]

I once applied for an accounting job, which would be the only accountant in the company, reporting directly to the COO. They were offering $26-32k, which I got after speaking with them over the phone. I said the job I just left paid double that and the guy lost interest (didn't call me back when he said he would)- but not before trying to convince me that I should be privileged to work at their company because they make they're a green company and somehow that makes it right to pay a CPA close to minimum wage. It was a for profit company too! My current job is at a non-profit that doesn't have a pot to piss in and they are still paying me almost double! Some employers just don't want to pay for decent employees, and then wonder why they have poor employees and/or retention.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']The idea that your degree itself is worth something is a joke. What IS worth something is the ass kissing and brown nosing you do while you're in college (when people at least pretend to care about your existence). If I had it to do all over again, I'd go to school in the same town (or at least the same county) as where I wanted to work afterward, and I'd spend the entire time licking my professors' collective balls.

In today's job market, that is basically the only shot you have of getting a job with no experience (unless you were given a silver spoon by mommy and daddy). At least through your school, you can beg/bribe/con//blackmail/etc. one of your professors/deans/chancellors/etc. to convince one of their old golfing buddies that you're not completely worthless and might actually be able to do the job. There are so many displaced workers right now, without this, you're going to run into "not enough experience"...but you need experience to get experience...yup.[/QUOTE]
I can't tell you how many times I saw shit like this on entry-level jobs while looking for something this past semester. Luckily and without much ass-kissing/networking, I found a decent paying entry-level job in my chosen career field right out of college.

The networking thing is on point, you pretty much have to ass kiss or know someone to not have trouble finding a job these days. Never really heard of ass kissing professors though. Maybe it's because I was in the business school; it's definitely not a thing there. Maybe it's more common in Arts and Sciences?

Well, I'm just saying, in college, that's where you have the most resources. You're being groomed for a field by people who are very well versed in that field and know people in that field. If you're not milking that for all it's worth, the road to getting where you want to be becomes infinitely more challenging. But people don't seem to talk about that reality too often, as while you trying to be "whatever you want to be", everything is just flowers and kittens. I don't know what the answer is though because there just doesn't seem to be enough jobs to go around. What's scary though is that even the less glamorous jobs are experiencing this. It's a rat race to be a teacher or a nurse now. Who the hell saw that coming?

Unless your professor is active in the field still, they're little help in hooking you up.

Same with the counselors at your school's career services office. In my experience, I've found they have little real world experience themselves, like many professors. If those people had in depth job experience, for example, 10 years as an attorney at a large firm, they wouldn't be piddling around as a career services counselor most likely unless they were really dedicated to that school and the idea of helping students. And even if they wanted to switch jobs, their big law firm experience would get them paid a lot more to head hunt or whatever with a non-academic entity. It's even worse for undergrad because there's so many different potential career paths and a small to medium school maybe has a handful of counselors at best?

All any of them do is tell you to make the font on your resume different, add quirky interests to "make you appear human," network, and network some more. If you don't have family to hook you up you have to network. Unfortunately even your "networking" contacts can hardly help you out because the job market is such shit. "If I hear of something I'll let you know" or "I'll pass your resume on to someone else." It's a nice thought and gesture, but most of the time its useless. The odds of them passing on your resume to someone who can actually provide you with a job are probably the same as winning the online job application lottery.

Other than playing the lottery that you'll get selected for the job on your merits, you've got to buddy buddy up to someone via "networking" and pray they'll like you enough or see enough value in you to hook you up with a job directly.

[quote name='kodave']Other than playing the lottery that you'll get selected for the job on your merits, you've got to buddy buddy up to someone via "networking" and pray they'll like you enough or see enough value in you to hook you up with a job directly.[/QUOTE]

There are some tricks that I know because I've been on both sides of the desk. One of the jobs I got was because I not only showed up in proper attire and aced the interview, but I was also the only candidate to call back the next day to say what a pleasure it was to meet the company officers and it was the kind of opportunity I was looking for. Calling - not emailing - you want that personal touch.

I was told this months later by the guy who hired me.

College is too much fun these days. Your degree and a good GPA is pretty much guaranteed as long as you stay awake, so it's easy to become delusional about what you're worth when graduating. Have to put in the work outside of class to get anywhere. Not even internships or getting lucky, just mastering your craft and creating your own portfolio -- the internet makes these things very doable. Though I speak as a computer science major.

[quote name='camoor']There are some tricks that I know because I've been on both sides of the desk. One of the jobs I got was because I not only showed up in proper attire and aced the interview, but I was also the only candidate to call back the next day to say what a pleasure it was to meet the company officers and it was the kind of opportunity I was looking for. Calling - not emailing - you want that personal touch.

I was told this months later by the guy who hired me.[/QUOTE]

From what I've experienced and heard, many place hates getting non-essential calls regardless of where you are in the hiring process unless you made a good personal connection with someone you spoke with at the company and can call them directly. Most of the time, the people conducting interviews outside of HR are busy enough as it is with their other responsibilities. If its not a do or die, time is of the essence situation, a mailed letter instead of an email is also a good personal touch though. Especially quick thank you notes to everyone who you interacted with in depth (as opposed to just being introduced to). Just get them in the mail the same day as you interview and they'll be there within a day, two max. But everything will vary by company and you just have to get a good read on it and the situation.

But thank you notes and figuring out the appropriate attire for an interview are things everyone should be able to understand and do, but weirdly a lot of people can't grasp those things.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when you find instances of predatory hiring like this. I have heard the film industry is bad like this too; They just call their workers "interns" and suddenly they have a bunch of free labor in the form of people desperate to get a leg up in the industry.

[quote name='kodave']But thank you notes and figuring out the appropriate attire for an interview are things everyone should be able to understand and do, but weirdly a lot of people can't grasp those things.[/QUOTE]

Especially IT. Not everyone in IT has the best social skills...