Jump to content


- - - - -

The Steam Deal thread V5. The big sale is over. New thread coming soon.


#10291 asheskitty   アシス猫 CAGiversary!   11678 Posts   Joined 2.6 Years Ago  

asheskitty

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

Personally I really loved Super Ethical Reality Climax (Genki) in SR3.

Humble Bundle has done more with the cream of the crop of indie games -- games that were already known prior to their inclusion in HiB -- than the other indie bundles. So if a few indie devs don't want to play ball, there's plenty of fish in the sea, and HiB is still a "premium" bundler.

This also begs the question of where exactly do you draw the line? Is Runic Games (Torchlight 1/2 dev) indie? Their parent company Perfect World acquired Cryptic Studios from Atari for over $50 million in May 2011. I suggest that perhaps a better differentiator would be if the devs have complete control over the game direction and content. This was well ridiculed in Brian Fargo's Wasterland 2 kickstarter video. Or more recently the totally "they made us do it" tacked on multiplayer in Spec Ops: The Line.

#10292 gilby   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   2645 Posts   Joined 2.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

BTW, there is a new graphics mod for Dues Ex that just got released...

http://www.rockpaper...-mod-completed/


Ha!

I knew there was a good reason to procrastinate on playing this. I only bought it, er, 10 or 11 years ago. Heck, back then I even had a Voodoo card to take advantage of the special graphics.

#10293 Cheaplikeafox OS X   Better Than You CAGiversary!   13324 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Cheaplikeafox OS X

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:54 PM

I read some interesting comments that I think were pretty spot on - that THQ partaking in this bundle is their attempt to dilute their IPs before any potential creditor takeover.

I'm an accounting geek, so I just took a look at their balance sheet. They have over $100 million in long-term debt (not to mention any of their current payables of another ~$100 million). The money raised from the Humble Bundle is not going to help this company in any tangible way (they do have ~$36 million cash on hand, but obviously doesn't compare to their obligations).

So in short, I agree - THQ is not doing this for money. It's two fold. Try and get their IPs out there to either raise awareness for their brands and try and hit a home-run or two in the near future, and at the same time, dilute those IPs so that if a creditor takes over the company, they won't be able to sell the games profitably since most people will already own the games from this and other cheap sales.



Out of curiosity what would the purpose of diluting their IP be? What do they get out of that later when the company goes out of business?

#10294 asheskitty   アシス猫 CAGiversary!   11678 Posts   Joined 2.6 Years Ago  

asheskitty

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

I read some interesting comments that I think were pretty spot on - that THQ partaking in this bundle is their attempt to dilute their IPs before any potential creditor takeover.

Spoiler
.


Now that's an interesting (and most sensible to me) thought. This cheap THQ bundling is something like a poison pill against a hostile takeover, to try an deter against them from being bought and broken up.

#10295 Syntax Error   Art School Dropout CAGiversary!   4079 Posts   Joined 2.7 Years Ago  

Syntax Error

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

Now that's an interesting (and most sensible to me) thought. This cheap THQ bundling is something like a poison pill against a hostile takeover, to try an deter against them from being bought and broken up.

That doesn't really make sense. The creditors will still seize the IP's and throw a padlock on the door. It's like suggesting the bank won't foreclose and repossess your house if you kick holes in all the drywall and poop on the carpet.

#10296 gilby   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   2645 Posts   Joined 2.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

Out of curiosity what would the purpose of diluting their IP be? What do they get out of that later when the company goes out of business?


Perhaps this helps push creditors away from a takeover and towards a reorganization as the value of taking over is less?

#10297 walkonshadows   Terminal CAGtosis CAGiversary!   1637 Posts   Joined 4.6 Years Ago  

walkonshadows

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

BTW, there is a new graphics mod for Dues Ex that just got released...

http://www.rockpaper...-mod-completed/


Thank you for that.

Anyone who wants a 72-Hour guest pass to The Secret World, just PM me your email.

 

LeCuPXZ.jpgUUVGik1.jpgDEjnR1E.jpg

CEh38V2.jpgKxJkMdH.jpgJtnnbZt.jpg


#10298 Necrotron   Now with strawberry! CAGiversary!   873 Posts   Joined 2.6 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

That article is terrible for making no mention of THQ's extreme financial issues.



Yeah, I just grabbed the first news article I saw on google, and it was complaining just like the indie devs.


BTW, there is a new graphics mod for Dues Ex that just got released...

http://www.rockpaper...-mod-completed/


And that's why I love PC. Stalker had an amazing update mod, and now Deus Ex has a nice graphic overhaul mod. Very cool indeed!

#10299 asheskitty   アシス猫 CAGiversary!   11678 Posts   Joined 2.6 Years Ago  

asheskitty

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

That doesn't really make sense. The creditors will still seize the IP's and throw a padlock on the door. It's like suggesting the bank won't foreclose and repossess your house if you kick holes in all the drywall and poop on the carpet.


That's not a good analogy.

#10300 DarenDF   Don't Do this CAGiversary!   1811 Posts   Joined 7.9 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

If nothing else I expect THQ games to hit rock bottom prices come the winter sale in either a last attempt to cheapen their IP's or a last ditch effort to rake in some much needed cash.

It won't help me since I own most THQ games, but still.

#10301 asheskitty   アシス猫 CAGiversary!   11678 Posts   Joined 2.6 Years Ago  

asheskitty

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

All this THQ stuff is detracting from the big news of the day: Trains 12 for $10 (75% off), finally.

#10302 blitztwn36   hatersgunnahate CAGiversary!   380 Posts   Joined 5.4 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

Now that's an interesting (and most sensible to me) thought. This cheap THQ bundling is something like a poison pill against a hostile takeover, to try an deter against them from being bought and broken up.


Exactly - while it won't necessarily keep the creditors at bay - their stock price is down to around $1/share with a market cap of only $8 million. It's a real easy takeover target, but other developers see the market saturated with their IP, they would be less willing to go hostile on them (granted, the takeover company would still have to satisfy the ~$200 million in payables and debt, so it's not like it's a cheap acquisition for all of their IP).

That doesn't really make sense. The creditors will still seize the IP's and throw a padlock on the door. It's like suggesting the bank won't foreclose and repossess your house if you kick holes in all the drywall and poop on the carpet.


You're right that the creditors will seize the IP and throw a padlock on the door. But it also assures THQ that the creditors ability to recoup any of their debt is limited since they are decreasing the creditors ability to sell their existing games in the future and make any money back. The second part of your quote doesn't apply - just because you destroy the place doesn't mean the bank will just keep letting you live there anyway.

Perhaps this helps push creditors away from a takeover and towards a reorganization as the value of taking over is less?


Ditto.

Out of curiosity what would the purpose of diluting their IP be? What do they get out of that later when the company goes out of business?


See above - diluting their IP serves two purposes, helping prevent a hostile takeover and also is a way of 'sticking it' to their creditors if the bank comes in and takes over their IP.

#10303 Cheaplikeafox OS X   Better Than You CAGiversary!   13324 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Cheaplikeafox OS X

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

Now that's an interesting (and most sensible to me) thought. This cheap THQ bundling is something like a poison pill against a hostile takeover, to try an deter against them from being bought and broken up.


That doesn't really make sense. The creditors will still seize the IP's and throw a padlock on the door. It's like suggesting the bank won't foreclose and repossess your house if you kick holes in all the drywall and poop on the carpet.


Perhaps this helps push creditors away from a takeover and towards a reorganization as the value of taking over is less?


That's not a good analogy.



What would a good analogy be? Or is there another company who has done something similar?

I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but I see no logical reason for them to purposely "cheapen" or dilute their IP. All THQ has is those IPs. That is basically what their company is.

Creditors aren't going to keep a sinking ship running simply because there is no value left in the games they do have. The only way for THQ to produce any more value in their company would be to make more games but since the games they make cost a ton of money creditors aren't likely to sink more money into them for a gamble.

THQ is also a publicly traded company, so them being able to drain the value of their company on purpose seems like it could open them up to some liability with investors.

The only logical view I see is the following:

1. The non-BTA games they are giving away have reached their peak value. THQ is just giving away copies of games that aren't really selling much anyways so they don't lose much there.

2. The BTA game is a gateway to a ton of DLC.

So you couple a bunch of games most people already have or wouldn't buy alone with a bigger title to give people a bigger sense of value and then you hope all these new purchases drive money into the DLC for your game. It's just one step removed from freemium.

Sure, Humble isn't a cure all to their financial woes, but even if they only make 2-3 million with this that's still a little more cash to try to hold them over long enough to release some more games and turn things around.

#10304 Syntax Error   Art School Dropout CAGiversary!   4079 Posts   Joined 2.7 Years Ago  

Syntax Error

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

You're right that the creditors will seize the IP and throw a padlock on the door. But it also assures THQ that the creditors ability to recoup any of their debt is limited since they are decreasing the creditors ability to sell their existing games in the future and make any money back. The second part of your quote doesn't apply - just because you destroy the place doesn't mean the bank will just keep letting you live there anyway.

Well, yeah, that's the point. There's people who are bitter at being foreclosed on and trash the house before they leave. While it makes someone at the bank sigh deeply, it doesn't stop them from taking the devalued home.

Likewise THQ could trash their company value but, aside from petty spite, it doesn't accomplish much or stop the creditors from taking what value they can get from it.

Not that I assume THQ's motive is such. I'm saying why I don't see the point in them having that motive.

1. The non-BTA games they are giving away have reached their peak value. THQ is just giving away copies of games that aren't really selling much anyways so they don't lose much there.

Right. Darksiders has been given away for free before. Metro 2033 is a game that a select group of people love but never sold well and is perpetually at $4.99 or less. Offering them in a bundle and hoping people pay more than a buck probably isn't costing them anything at this point.

#10305 gilby   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   2645 Posts   Joined 2.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

All this THQ stuff is detracting from the big news of the day: Trains 12 for $10 (75% off), finally.


So which to get? Trainz 12 or Train Simulator 2013?

#10306 pantsattack   Grant Thrift Auto CAGiversary!   978 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

pantsattack

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

I think Humble is still cool and THQ is now cooler by doing this bundle.

#10307 motoki   A New Game Everyday CAGiversary!   10546 Posts   Joined 3.5 Years Ago   Has been playing Atelier Rorona: The Alchemists Of Arland
PS3

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

All this THQ stuff is detracting from the big news of the day: Trains 12 for $10 (75% off), finally.


*steps over all the THQ replies*

I really want Trainz but am having a hard time getting on board with the $10 price, especially considering that Railworks with some DLC in the past has been sold much cheaper.

I might still bite anyway it basically never goes on sale cheap but if I do I will grumble while I hit buy.

#10308 Cheaplikeafox OS X   Better Than You CAGiversary!   13324 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Cheaplikeafox OS X

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

*steps over all the THQ replies*

I really want Trainz but am having a hard time getting on board with the $10 price, especially considering that Railworks with some DLC in the past has been sold much cheaper.

I might still bite anyway it basically never goes on sale cheap but if I do I will grumble while I hit buy.



I think this is probably the cheapest it will get on Steam.

FWIW, I got:

Trainz 2012
Trainz 2010
Trainz 2009
Trains Classics 3

http://www.amazon.co...x_ya_os_product

for $12.49 from Amazon over the summer.

#10309 The Sifu   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1358 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

1. The non-BTA games they are giving away have reached their peak value. THQ is just giving away copies of games that aren't really selling much anyways so they don't lose much there.

2. The BTA game is a gateway to a ton of DLC.



Agreed, and along that line of reasoning, most of the non-BTA games can be seen as gateways to their respective sequels. They're not trying to sell individual games here; they're trying to get more customers interested in entire franchises. Darksiders 2 already has tons of DLC itself, and it's barely a few months old. I have no doubt that Company of Heroes 2 will be the same way, considering there's already a $99.99 (!) digital deluxe version available for preorder on Steam.
Posted Image

#10310 gilby   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   2645 Posts   Joined 2.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

As I expected, I now have an extra Metro 2033 key from the recent Amazon bundle. CAG group giveaway ends Saturday morning.

Posted Image

#10311 mac995555   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   212 Posts   Joined 2.7 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

Are you guys going to start being more wary of buying games on steam 75% off for $5? These bundles are really making me kick myself considering I spent probably $20 on all the games in the THQ bundle...

#10312 DarenDF   Don't Do this CAGiversary!   1811 Posts   Joined 7.9 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

Are you guys going to start being more wary of buying games on steam 75% off for $5? These bundles are really making me kick myself considering I spent probably $20 on all the games in the THQ bundle...

Well in the case of the THQ bundle its kind of a special situation imo. If they weren't facing going under I doubt they'd even be doing this bundle.

#10313 Mooby   Herp Derp CAGiversary!   7636 Posts   Joined 4.3 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

Humble Electronic Arts Bundle... no Steam keys. :cry:

#10314 Ryan_gf   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   164 Posts   Joined 4.4 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

Are there going to be additional games unlocked for this, or are people just speculating? Not seeing anything on their site like there usually is...

#10315 TheLongshot   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2400 Posts   Joined 4.7 Years Ago  

TheLongshot

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

Agreed, and along that line of reasoning, most of the non-BTA games can be seen as gateways to their respective sequels. They're not trying to sell individual games here; they're trying to get more customers interested in entire franchises. Darksiders 2 already has tons of DLC itself, and it's barely a few months old. I have no doubt that Company of Heroes 2 will be the same way, considering there's already a $99.99 (!) digital deluxe version available for preorder on Steam.


And the sequel to Metro 2033 is getting some under-the-radar buzz.
Posted Image

#10316 deviousnaraku   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   582 Posts   Joined 4.8 Years Ago  

deviousnaraku

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

Are there going to be additional games unlocked for this, or are people just speculating? Not seeing anything on their site like there usually is...


All past Humble Bundles have always added bonus games.
Sign up for GreenManGaming using my link and get $2 credit when you spend $2 or more!

#10317 Mooby   Herp Derp CAGiversary!   7636 Posts   Joined 4.3 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

Are there going to be additional games unlocked for this, or are people just speculating? Not seeing anything on their site like there usually is...



Not sure what you mean by 'usually,' as they've never broadcast the fact that they will add additional content. Only way people sometimes know is through Steam registries.

#10318 Cheaplikeafox OS X   Better Than You CAGiversary!   13324 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Cheaplikeafox OS X

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:05 PM

Agreed, and along that line of reasoning, most of the non-BTA games can be seen as gateways to their respective sequels. They're not trying to sell individual games here; they're trying to get more customers interested in entire franchises. Darksiders 2 already has tons of DLC itself, and it's barely a few months old. I have no doubt that Company of Heroes 2 will be the same way, considering there's already a $99.99 (!) digital deluxe version available for preorder on Steam.


I didn't even look at it from that aspect. Good catch. COH and Metro sequels coming. DS sequel already out. RF has a few other games in the franchise.

Just remembered I have a South Park pre order in, need these guys to stay open at least through March of next year :)

#10319 louiedog   20 minutes into the future CAGiversary!   5630 Posts   Joined 7.7 Years Ago  

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

It looks like another wave of Steam linux beta invites went out. I'm guessing there aren't a ton of you who signed up, but if you did check your email.

#10320 TheLongshot   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2400 Posts   Joined 4.7 Years Ago  

TheLongshot

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

Just remembered I have a South Park pre order in, need these guys to stay open at least through March of next year :)


Obsidian, who is developing it, isn't going under. THQ is just publishing it.
Posted Image