Attacks on US Embassies

UncleBob

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Stole the link for King Broly in the Election thread.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19584734

Multiple reports of protests and violence in many African/Middle Eastern countries.

US Ambassador in Libya was killed Tuesday.
Embassy in Yemen was overran, with much vandalism and a nice US Flag burning.

In completely unrelated news, I'm sure, the warmongering US has been continuing airstrikes at the cost of civilian lives in Yemen and Libya.
 
Guess this is most relevant here, but also could go in the election or stay class thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/opinion/collins-mitts-major-meltdown.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Romney and some other republicans have been trying to blame the administration for this, by saying they brought it on by speaking out against the offensive Muhammed puppet video that sparked these protests.

Part of Romney's comment:

“They clearly — they clearly sent mixed messages to the world. And — and the statement came from the administration — and the embassy is the administration — the statement that came from the administration was a — was a statement which is akin to apology and I think was a — a — a severe miscalculation.”

Some others:

A few social conservatives did unveil a hitherto-unnoticed passion for the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom to make fun of religion. “It was disheartening to hear the administration condemn Americans engaging in free speech that hurt the feelings of Muslims,” said Senator Jim DeMint.

And, let’s see, who else. Donald Rumsfeld tweeted support. Party chairman Reince Priebus chimed in: “Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic.” Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona said the embassy’s comment “is like the judge telling the woman that got raped, ‘You asked for it because of the way you dressed.’ That’s the same thing.”

Granted, not all republicans are like these jokers. Some have spoke in support of the administration, including Boener and McConnell from other articles I read yesterday. And its another Romney gaffe that he's taking flak for, at a time when Obama is pulling ahead in polls since he got a convention bump and Romney didn't. But still just absurd as you know these same people would be all kinds of riled up if some other country made a video making fun of Christianity and demanding an denunciation by that countries leaders.
 
Its sick how Romney is politicizing the whole situation. I mean...come on. These are human beings that died..
 
[quote name='Xevious']Its sick how Romney is politicizing the whole situation. I mean...come on. These are human beings that died..[/QUOTE]

We routinely, as in several times a week, kill more people on a day-to-day basis with drone strikes. And then we missile strike rescue and response teams.

Some of these targets include hospitals, churches, schools, and funerals.

Somebody needs to bring Obama to justice for his mass murder spree.
 
Let them burn their countries to the ground over a video, not my problem. Obama can feel free to pull our aid and ambassadors out at any time in any country that allows this kind of behavior to take place.
 
All these riots are reason for concern that the Arab spring may not be a great thing though. Just more evidence that it may lead to Islamist fundamentalists getting control of countries (ala the Taliban in Afghanistan after the war with Russia). And things may end up worse than they were under the deposed dictators.
 
Of course. With the Muslim Brotherhood winning majority in Egypt etc.

Not saying it's a new concern. Just a more visible and extreme manifestation that concerns about the rise of fundamentalists is a serious issue.
 
Gary Johnson's statement: http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/gov-gary-johnson-releases-statement-regarding-libya-attack

The airwaves are filled today with political chest-pounding and calls for decisive action. The most decisive and prudent action we can take today is to stop trying to manage governments and peoples on the other side of the globe who don’t want to be managed, get our people out of impossible situations that have no direct U.S. interest, and immediately stop sending money to regimes who clearly cannot or will not control their own countries.
Now that's politicization you can take to the bank.

The dumb movie may be irrelevant. The attacks may have been pre-planned, anyway: http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloo...Libya-May-Have-Died-in-Preplanned-3861146.php
 
The major attack may have been pre-planned. But there are wide-scale riots and protests in multiple countries over the video. In Yemen in particular today.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']the major attack may have been pre-planned. But there are wide-scale riots and protests in multiple countries over the video. In yemen in particular today.[/quote]
A good start!
 
But still just absurd as you know these same people would be all kinds of riled up if some other country made a video making fun of Christianity and demanding an denunciation by that countries leaders.

Dahhh, I don't know about that. I couldn't see riots here over something so petty.

We only get in the streets over life and death stuff, like gay marriage.
 
Sean Smith one of the murder victims of the religious savages was an influential online gamer according to yahoo news


Gianturco posted excerpts from his final chat with Smith, including this chilling message:
(12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Of course. With the Muslim Brotherhood winning majority in Egypt etc.

Not saying it's a new concern. Just a more visible and extreme manifestation that concerns about the rise of fundamentalists is a serious issue.[/QUOTE]

Morsi has actually done a lot of good things for that country already. People respect him even if they differ with regards to faith, and in general, he's had very few public slip-ups that would cause concern for the US. I know the tag "Muslim Brotherhood" has a very negative connotation, and in some ways rightfully so, but the fact that the US tells the world they need to become democracies, then bitch with the wrong candidate wins is disturbing.

From a technical perspective, an Islamic fundamentalist government would likely be extremely isolationist, not want much Western influence around, and as long as there aren't 10 military bases in their backyard, would be happy to run around in the desert doing their thing. The problem is, there are strings attached to all these guys, whether it be loans, aid, military support, which is introduced by Russia, the US, China, and others.

Having tons of Egyptian friends, including a couple that had been over there for the past summer and just got back, Egypt under Morsi compared to Egypt undder Mubarek is much, much better. I know quite a few Libyans, one who actually went there to fight against Gaddafi during the uprising, and they, along with the Egyptians I know, are both horribly saddened to see the actions of a group of thugs and morons, many of which don't really have strong feelings against the film, but are looking for a reason to loot, riot, and cause trouble.

...now, regarding the film. Considering the financiers...and the producer, and their very strong anti-Islam bigotry, they HAVE to be sitting somewhere just laughing their balls off. This is exactly what they wanted. They wanted to expose the whackos internationally as whackos, wanted it to paint a negative light on Islam, and absolutely accomplished this mission. I watched a few YouTube clips of it, and it was worse than some of the silly student films I was in in college with respect to production value and acting. If they spent $5mill on that, they really overpaid. It was just a gross, nasty thing to produce, which served no benefit, and only caused anger, and now death. Not legitimizing the reaction to it in any way-it's completely irrational and counter-productive, but the producer of the film has to be immensely proud of what he has started. There are a lot of sick people involved in the instigation and reaction to it.
 
But Islam is a peaceful religion! Those people doing the attacking and killing aren't good muslims.
-said the arab world.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']But Islam is a peaceful religion! Those people doing the attacking and killing aren't good muslims.
-said the arab world.[/QUOTE]

Well, most Muslims aren't violently attacking those with whom they have disagreements. It's not even the fundamentalists, who put restrictions on banking due to religious practices; it's the ones who take every single word literally, even the ones that command you to kill non-believers. Even at that, the attackers may not even be Muslim; they could just be Yemeni citizens agitated by US presence. Or hey, maybe they were family members of the hundreds of people killed in drone strikes this year alone.

Thank the deities nobody takes the Old Testament completely word for word, otherwise we'd have problems of our own in the West.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']But Islam is a peaceful religion! Those people doing the attacking and killing aren't good muslims.
-said the arab world.[/QUOTE]

There are well over a billion Muslims on the planet. If they were all whacky murderers as you would like to believe, you'd either be praying to Mecca, or buried in rubble right now. Assuming neither is true, I would say they are overwhelmingly peaceful.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']Dahhh, I don't know about that. I couldn't see riots here over something so petty.
[/QUOTE]

Reading comprehension fail.

I was talking about the politicians bashing the US embassy people who denounced the video, by saying that they'd expect other country leaders to denounce a similar anti-christian video put out by their people (or at the least wouldn't think the government was weak for doing so).

I wasn't saying we'd have riots over it here. Just that the republican comments were hypocritical and just trying to politicize stuff and be anti Islam since much of their base still believes Obama is a muslim.
 
[quote name='berzirk']There are well over a billion Muslims on the planet. If they were all whacky murderers as you would like to believe, you'd either be praying to Mecca, or buried in rubble right now. Assuming neither is true, I would say they are overwhelmingly peaceful.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they're all wacky murders, I was just trying to pre-empt the denials that are issued.
Statistically they may be overly peaceful but, there's definitely seems to be a correlation involved between Islam (Radical Islam) and these types of attacks.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']I don't think they're all wacky murders, I was just trying to pre-empt the denials that are issued.
Statistically they may be overly peaceful but, there's definitely seems to be a correlation involved between Islam (Radical Islam) and these types of attacks.[/QUOTE]

A correlation stated by our government, at least.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']I don't think they're all wacky murders, I was just trying to pre-empt the denials that are issued.
Statistically they may be overly peaceful but, there's definitely seems to be a correlation involved between Islam (Radical Islam) and these types of attacks.[/QUOTE]

I would suggest that it's more political than religious based. Many of these countries were colonized less than a hundred years ago. Some haven't had their Civil Wars yet, are living within boundaries that the French and British established to ensure there would be infighting and perpetual chaos, and others have had puppet governments propped up by America and others to be friendly to the US, while resources are exported, much to the disdain of the general population. Even the number of conflicts in Europe and Asia are immense when you start looking at the amount of time some of those regions have had their current political boundaries.
 
[quote name='Xevious']Its sick how Romney is politicizing the whole situation. I mean...come on. These are human beings that died..[/QUOTE]

Yeah it certainly appears that the victims were putting their lives in harm's way in an attempt to do the exact opposite of what Romney and Ryan stand for (IE they were trying to build bridges, not blow them up)

These guys are being martyred by the wrong party.
 
I do like how they waited until just a little after September 11th, just a bit. At this rate they might as well had gone ahead and did it earlier.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Reading comprehension fail.[/quote]

Yeah, it was a "fail" on my part. My apologies.

I was talking about the politicians bashing the US embassy people who denounced the video, by saying that they'd expect other country leaders to denounce a similar anti-christian video put out by their people (or at the least wouldn't think the government was weak for doing so).

We're denouncing anti-islamic sentiments because there are enough fundamentalists out there who would resort to violence over it, or at least use it as an excuse to carry out pre-planned attacks. Romney's attitude only puts more lives at risk, these are things in we all agree on.

Because republicans always do this, they read the same lines off everytime something like this happens. People die and they wag their finger at Obama for playing the diplomat. Yeah, violence over free speech is unacceptable, especially when you do it in your own country half across the globe in a society that values such things. But we have people in dangerous places, and we need to control tensions for the sake of their safety, looking weak or not. Romney, like always, is out of touch when it comes to real life.

My only disagreement, then, is that it wouldn't go both ways when it comes to ant-christian sentiment. If an individual from another country made a YouTube film ridiculing Jesus, our politicians wouldn't call on that country's government to apologize. Religious mockery is a non-issue over here, in fact, it's proudly displayed.
 
The plot thickens. The producer/director is actually a Coptic Christian-http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/california-man-confirms-role-in-anti-islam-film-that-sparked-deadly-libya-violence-1.464700

Is this guy really THAT stupid? The actors also came out and said they were lied to regarding the topic, and the dubbing proves it too. What a fucktwat.
 
R.I.P @Glen Doherty and the other victims including a fellow gamer. :cry:

Let us not politicize this. Let us remember that four people were murdered by murderous savages. This talk about christians, republicans, the film maker, romney, america and obama takes away from the act of war and murders that took place.
 
[quote name='Recycle']R.I.P @Glen Doherty and the other victims including a fellow gamer. :cry:

Let us not politicize this. Let us remember that four people were murdered by murderous savages. This talk about christians, republicans, the film maker, romney, america and obama takes away from the act of war and murders that took place.[/QUOTE]

This is the VS thread. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Besides, I started a RIP thread on the OT board
 
[quote name='Recycle']R.I.P @Glen Doherty and the other victims including a fellow gamer. :cry:

Let us not politicize this. Let us remember that four people were murdered by murderous savages. This talk about christians, republicans, the film maker, romney, america and obama takes away from the act of war and murders that took place.[/QUOTE]
You joined last week and decided to make your very first post in the vs. forum? Now where have I seen this pattern before...

Characterizing the people that committed these actions as "murderous savages" implies that there is no rhyme or reason as to why they did it and that it's incomprehensible. This couldn't be any further from the truth. berzirk has given many well-reasoned arguments that can explain a lot of the mentality behind these acts and it all points to historical foreign interventions fomenting radical fundamentalism.

There's also nothing wrong with politicizing this. EVERYTHING is political and done for political gain. The only problem is that Romney stepped on his dick by directly blaming Obama for it. What he should've done was taken a softer stance to more tactfully pump himself up rather than taking pot-shots at the other guy.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']My only disagreement, then, is that it wouldn't go both ways when it comes to ant-christian sentiment. If an individual from another country made a YouTube film ridiculing Jesus, our politicians wouldn't call on that country's government to apologize. Religious mockery is a non-issue over here, in fact, it's proudly displayed.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's proudly displayed. In fact non-fundies seem to be the only ones embarrassed that in a technologically advanced world, where Americans enjoy every convenience afforded by modern technology, we still have bs like the creationism museum and anti-stem cell research movement.
 
simple point if they want to attack the embassies

1... PULL ALL OF ALL OUR PEOPLE OUT
2. PULL ALL OF OUR TROOPS OUT

and tell them to go fuck themself and defend their own fucking lands and see how long their so called government will be around
 
[quote name='slidecage']
and tell them to go fuck themself and defend their own fucking lands and see how long their so called government will be around[/QUOTE]

You mean in democratic Egypt, Libya, Palestine? I would imagine if they didn't like their government, they would vote them out of power now that they are democracies. What's your point? I also think most of those places would be elated if the US got the hell out. They probably share your views.
 
[quote name='berzirk']You mean in democratic Egypt, Libya, Palestine? I would imagine if they didn't like their government, they would vote them out of power now that they are democracies. What's your point? I also think most of those places would be elated if the US got the hell out. They probably share your views.[/QUOTE]

we had no right to overthrow their last government. what is next RUSSIA needs a new leader... Love to see them try that


BOOM hello nuke cloud goodbye rebels
 
[quote name='dohdough']You joined last week and decided to make your very first post in the vs. forum? Now where have I seen this pattern before...

Characterizing the people that committed these actions as "murderous savages" implies that there is no rhyme or reason as to why they did it and that it's incomprehensible. This couldn't be any further from the truth. berzirk has given many well-reasoned arguments that can explain a lot of the mentality behind these acts and it all points to historical foreign interventions fomenting radical fundamentalism.

There's also nothing wrong with politicizing this. EVERYTHING is political and done for political gain. The only problem is that Romney stepped on his dick by directly blaming Obama for it. What he should've done was taken a softer stance to more tactfully pump himself up rather than taking pot-shots at the other guy.[/QUOTE]

It's VeggieTales :lol:
 
[quote name='berzirk']I would suggest that it's more political than religious based. Many of these countries were colonized less than a hundred years ago. Some haven't had their Civil Wars yet, are living within boundaries that the French and British established to ensure there would be infighting and perpetual chaos, and others have had puppet governments propped up by America and others to be friendly to the US, while resources are exported, much to the disdain of the general population. Even the number of conflicts in Europe and Asia are immense when you start looking at the amount of time some of those regions have had their current political boundaries.[/QUOTE]

These are good points. I don't think it's sufficient to just say that most attacks like this are committed by Muslims (as, unfortunately, too many do). The situation is much more complex than that.
 
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[quote name='dohdough'] There's also nothing wrong with politicizing this. EVERYTHING is political and done for political gain. The only problem is that Romney stepped on his dick by directly blaming Obama for it. What he should've done was taken a softer stance to more tactfully pump himself up rather than taking pot-shots at the other guy.[/QUOTE]

Oh but you know now that the White House actually agrees with Romney's criticism? This man has the verbal/mental gymnastic talent of Nadia Comăneci.

“What I said was exactly the same conclusion the White House reached, which was that the statement was inappropriate. That’s why they backed away from it as well,” Romney told me.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...omney-on-obamas-shoot-first-aim-later-attack/

Yes he forgets also that he said President Obama sympathizes with the rioters. If that is not some Tea Party Birther BS I do not know what is. He has that vote lock stock and barrel.
 
Riots aren't the way to get things done or change peoples' points of view. They're a way to get people to look you and say 'hey, look at those idiots.'
 
[quote name='Spokker']Gary Johnson's statement: http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/gov-gary-johnson-releases-statement-regarding-libya-attack


Now that's politicization you can take to the bank.

The dumb movie may be irrelevant. The attacks may have been pre-planned, anyway: http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloo...Libya-May-Have-Died-in-Preplanned-3861146.php[/QUOTE]

That's milquetoast libertarianism (as with everything else in his campaign). I prefer a much harder line:

[quote name='Murray Rothbard']"The cry among American libertarians should be for the United States to withdraw now, in every way that involves the U.S. government. The United States should dismantle its bases, withdraw its troops, stop its incessant political meddling, and abolish the CIA. It should also end all foreign aid – which is simply a device to coerce the American taxpayer into subsidizing American exports and favored foreign States, all in the name of 'helping the starving peoples of the world.'[/quote]

I'll give Johnson this, though. His statement was better than Rand Paul's. God damn, that fucking moron is a disgrace.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']That's milquetoast libertarianism (as with everything else in his campaign). I prefer a much harder line:



I'll give Johnson this, though. His statement was better than Rand Paul's. God damn, that fucking moron is a disgrace.[/QUOTE]

Haven't we been telling you he's such a fraud? I understand wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt back then but at this point there's no excuse.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Haven't we been telling you he's such a fraud? I understand wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt back then but at this point there's no excuse.[/QUOTE]

Johnson, or Rand? As for Rand, I was unhappy when he was hawking Gitmo and the War on Terror as a Senate primary candidate, backtracking on the CRA, etc. I wanted to give him another shot when he was filibustering the PATRIOT Act in early 2011, and his voting record is pretty good on libertarian grounds (best in the Senate by far in decades... not really saying much though), but his rhetoric on everything is deplorable, and many of his legislative proposals don't move the ball forward at all.

Just as an example, his "abolish the TSA" bill would have the TSA/DHS hire a "private" company to do the duties assigned by the DHS. Or merely holding foreign aid until the receiving country does what we want. That's 2+2=4 shit, and he's coming up with 7.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Johnson, or Rand? As for Rand, I was unhappy when he was hawking Gitmo and the War on Terror as a Senate primary candidate, backtracking on the CRA, etc. I wanted to give him another shot when he was filibustering the PATRIOT Act in early 2011, and his voting record is pretty good on libertarian grounds (best in the Senate by far in decades... not really saying much though), but his rhetoric on everything is deplorable, and many of his legislative proposals don't move the ball forward at all.

Just as an example, his "abolish the TSA" bill would have the TSA/DHS hire a "private" company to do the duties assigned by the DHS. Or merely holding foreign aid until the receiving country does what we want. That's 2+2=4 shit, and he's coming up with 7.[/QUOTE]
That's because Rand Paul is your typical Republican in libertarian clothing. He pays lip service and appropriates the name of Ayn Rand to that end all while banking on the Paul name with his father greasing the gears for him. Rand Paul is nothing more than an opportunist with a shitty haircut.

And your example doesn't compute. Aren't those things libertarian solutions? Especially the privatization of TSA? How is what Rand Paul proposing a 7?

[quote name='dmaul1114']Thought I posted this earlier, must have not clicked the post button.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/egan-the-burden-of-speech/?hp

Good column on the burdens of free speech in situations like this, how countries with limited free speech don't understand that a video like this isn't representative of the views of a country or government as they're used to high levels of censorship etc.

Also good discussion of Romney's comments etc.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, pretty good op-ed.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']"whoops, wrong country my bad guys" - Extremists.[/QUOTE]

All you no-beards look the same to us.

[quote name='highoffcoffee496']http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer I'm curious on what you think of these pictures....hopefully this teaches you to be more open-minded on other people and to not just think that the actions of a few means they are all like that[/QUOTE]

I was very surprised and impressed to see them. I'd really like to see more denouncing the attacks as opposed to pro-america sentiments though.
Especially from some of the more 'liberal' Arab states (UAE, Kuwait, Qatar?)
 
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