Bordlands 2 Racist?

Proper Internet "netiquette" is to put Kotaku articles you want to share into Pastebin so they do not get hits and ad revenue. They are part of the Gawker network which is basically a company that race and gender-baits readers to harvest hits. The fake issues are fun to argue about, but it's getting out of control. Gaming has not yet been ruined by the social justice types, but that is their goal.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Proper Internet "netiquette" is to put Kotaku articles you want to share into Pastebin so they do not get hits and ad revenue. They are part of the Gawker network which is basically a company that race and gender-baits readers to harvest hits. The fake issues are fun to argue about, but it's getting out of control. Gaming has not yet been ruined by the social justice types, but that is their goal.[/QUOTE]
Just because of this, I'm going to not only go click-crazy, but I'm also going to click on their ads. Thanks for the tip!

Why can't we talk about those things? Oh right, because racism and sexism doesn't exist anymore.:roll:
 
[quote name='Spokker']Proper Internet "netiquette" is to put Kotaku articles you want to share into Pastebin so they do not get hits and ad revenue. They are part of the Gawker network which is basically a company that race and gender-baits readers to harvest hits. The fake issues are fun to argue about, but it's getting out of control. Gaming has not yet been ruined by the social justice types, but that is their goal.[/QUOTE]

Kotaku has raised fake issues in the past, but do also bring up real ones. They are like all media; they create some stories to truly be for debating and others just for revenue. It's not fair imo to blame them for a problem that exists in all media
 
[quote name='dohdough']
Why can't we talk about those things? Oh right, because racism and sexism doesn't exist anymore.:roll:[/QUOTE]
No, they exist, and everybody is pretty much on board.

Besides, practically every big game coming out is sexist or racist these days. Far Cry 3 is being hit with the same nonsense Uncharted was. Cyberpunk 2077 is the most recent with the next big "controversy" right around the corner. I'm glad games aren't boring yet. I would love to see a sci-fi game where the racism isn't just between aliens and humans. I doubt that even the Mass Effect timeline is enough to erase class, racial and gender conflicts.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Just because of this, I'm going to not only go click-crazy, but I'm also going to click on their ads. Thanks for the tip![/QUOTE]

Enjoy Kotaku while your spite lasts. I don't think it's the kind of place you're gonna like though.
 
This whole thing is bullshit. I talk pretty much exactly like Tiny Tina and I'm white. Doesn't make me racist, I just grew up with what most would term urban youths at a very formative time in my life. Also, T Pain and Lil Jon are the bomb. Those people that complained have very narrow views of people if they think that shit is racist.
 
As a video game character I thought she was funny, just because it's such an outlandish character. Though if I heard someone speak like that in real life I'd probably roll my eyes. Keep in mind that the BL characters are meant to be over the top and exaggerated.

Also kinda sad that I've met people who speak not unlike Scooter as well here in the south.
 
This is a non-issue. Everything in Borderlands is over-the-top and nonsensical. Never mind that Tiny Tina is an insane tween obsessed with explosives and mass murderers, but next someone will probably equate that with terrorism and school violence.
 
[quote name='Clak']As a video game character I thought she was funny, just because it's such an outlandish character. Though if I heard someone speak like that in real life I'd probably roll my eyes. Keep in mind that the BL characters are meant to be over the top and exaggerated.

Also kinda sad that I've met people who speak not unlike Scooter as well here in the south.[/QUOTE]

100% agree on all accounts. Should southerners bitch about how over the top the Ellie and Scooter thing was? How bout Eastern Europeans for how Markus is a scheming money grubber. Frick-sake. They use accents, dialog, innuendo, as well or better than 99% of devs. It's funny, offensive in content, but overall, handled incredibly well. Tiny Tiny brought literal LOL moments out of my buddy and I while we played it.

Shame on the writer to interact with a handful of complainers. He probably should have just let it go, but I can see how someone calling your work "racist" could bring out a pretty immediate, and emotional response. Do these guys throw a fit every time Cole Train opens his mouth in Gears? Or whenever the gritty, urban, black guy gives his, -every single performance from a Quentin Tarrentino movie, ever?

Misguided criticism IMO. Would people have said it was more or less "racist" if Tina was black?
 
Wouldn't it be more racist if no white person can speak like a black person?

And Roland doesn't speak like that. It'd be racist if Tina some like a white chick, and Roland a black dude.
 
Good fuck him.
I agree with one of the comments on that kotaku article ''white people stop being offended for black people''.
 
[quote name='Clak']As a video game character I thought she was funny, just because it's such an outlandish character. Though if I heard someone speak like that in real life I'd probably roll my eyes. Keep in mind that the BL characters are meant to be over the top and exaggerated.

Also kinda sad that I've met people who speak not unlike Scooter as well here in the south.[/QUOTE]
People talk like Tina in the south too. Tennessee was where I grew up and toooons of people talk like that.

[quote name='elessar123']Wouldn't it be more racist if no white person can speak like a black person?[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly.

[quote name='highoffcoffee496']Developer Who Called Borderlands Character Racist Is Now Out Of A Job
http://kotaku.com/5981652/developer-who-called-borderlands-character-racist-is-now-out-of-a-job[/QUOTE]
XD His tweets are hilarious. Dude is clearly bitter over the ordeal.
 
[quote name='GUNNM']Good fuck him.
I agree with one of the comments on that kotaku article ''white people stop being offended for black people''.[/QUOTE]

But they think they are such saints for doing it lol
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']People talk like Tina in the south too. Tennessee was where I grew up and toooons of people talk like that.


[/QUOTE]
Yeah, me too. I know....lol. Dude didn't deserve to be fired for raising a dispute.
 
Ah, the wording of some of that made it sound like was fired. Didn't read all his ranting, maybe he got more specific there.
 
Strange that I cant find any cites online about it, but I have heard Shinetown used as a name for the part of town where poor black people live. I wonder if that usage might have influenced the person in the OP to assume that sunshine was a racist term.
 
I'm very angry about Assassins Creed III because there are a lot of native americans with face paint. Not every native american wears face paint. That's racist!

Not being Native American allows me righteous indignation about said offense without actually having suffered any actual harm because of discrimination against native americans.

thank you.
 
[quote name='WorhoornchigH']Strange that I cant find any cites online about it, but I have heard Shinetown used as a name for the part of town where poor black people live. I wonder if that usage might have influenced the person in the OP to assume that sunshine was a racist term.[/QUOTE]
It's possible that you're confusing the terms Sundown/Sunset Towns with Shinetown and actually means the opposite of what you think it does. A Sundown/Sunset town means that it's a place that wouldn't be safe for black people when it gets dark because the whites in the town would beat and/or kill them.

Regardless, that developer has a point in that the character is problematic because it does follow a a trend of white girls using the vernacular, which is why that dev called it a trope and not all out racist, but the issue of racism is far more complicated than just using the vernacular.

I personally haven't played the game yet, so I can't say whether it is or isn't and I'm leaning towards it not being racist from what I've read, but I could be convinced otherwise.

[quote name='confoosious']I'm very angry about Assassins Creed III because there are a lot of native americans with face paint. Not every native american wears face paint. That's racist!

Not being Native American allows me righteous indignation about said offense without actually having suffered any actual harm because of discrimination against native americans.

thank you.[/QUOTE]
Only Chinese people can be upset about the Chinese Exclusion Act, only Japanese people can be upset about internment camps, only Native Americans can be upset about their genocide, and only black people can be upset about slavery. Do I got that right? Thanks for clearing that up!
 
[quote name='dohdough']
Only Chinese people can be upset about the Chinese Exclusion Act, only Japanese people can be upset about internment camps, only Native Americans can be upset about their genocide, and only black people can be upset about slavery. Do I got that right? Thanks for clearing that up![/QUOTE]

Yes, because those things are totally the same as when a character in a video game uses face paint. Or when a black character uses a term no one uses anymore.

And please, save me the "it starts with a video game and ends with hitler!" type rant you're about to start on. You're too predictable, dohdough. But we've gone down this road before. I'm glad your righteousness is good for you though. God bless.
 
[quote name='confoosious']Yes, because those things are totally the same as when a character in a video game uses face paint. Or when a black character uses a term no one uses anymore.[/quote]
It's perfectly reasonable to call out a developer and publisher for using ignorant stereotypes when depicting marginalized people. Things like face paint are culturally significant and a minute of research into it like a goddamn google search should've taken care of that and would've shown a modicum respect instead of relying on cultural stereotypes as a substitute.

I don't even know where the fuck you're going with the second example. At least provide some context if you're trying to troll-bait me.

And please, save me the "it starts with a video game and ends with hitler!" type rant you're about to start on. You're too predictable, dohdough. But we've gone down this road before. I'm glad your righteousness is good for you though. God bless.
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Not to mention that it's like you completely ignored my response to the other CAG in the same exact post that you quoted which partially addresses this and your initial bullshit. The only one predictable here is you for your kneejerk reactions, which is not only demonstrated in this thread, but several other threads as well. At least I provide and follow the context. You? You're just lampooning yourself at this point.
 
[quote name='dohdough']It's perfectly reasonable to call out a developer and publisher for using ignorant stereotypes when depicting marginalized people. Things like face paint are culturally significant and a minute of research into it like a goddamn google search should've taken care of that and would've shown a modicum respect instead of relying on cultural stereotypes as a substitute.

I don't even know where the fuck you're going with the second example. At least provide some context if you're trying to troll-bait me.


Not to mention that it's like you completely ignored my response to the other CAG in the same exact post that you quoted which partially addresses this and your initial bullshit. The only one predictable here is you for your kneejerk reactions, which is not only demonstrated in this thread, but several other threads as well. At least I provide and follow the context. You? You're just lampooning yourself at this point.[/QUOTE]

Nearly every character is inspired from something or someone especially in video games. So even if some believe it is racist, it doesn't matter, it is a made up character. How come we (the people in the article) are so offended by "tiny tina" being (what they believe) is covertly racist, while many other games have characters that are blatently racist with no article or outrage? I think it has something to do with people's fear that if they indulge what they believe is covertly racist, then they are in fact racist, or at the very least accomodating it. Blatent racism doesn't need outing because everyone knows its there? :roll:

Therefore we get people who get offended when they believe they sense unintended racial undertones.

Should we hear them out? Maybe.
Does it really matter if Tiny Tina characters dialogue is racist or not? Not in the least.
Should the developer think about changing the character? Absolutely not.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Nearly every character is inspired from something or someone especially in video games. So even if some believe it is racist, it doesn't matter, it is a made up character. How come we (the people in the article) are so offended by "tiny tina" being (what they believe) is covertly racist, while many other games have characters that are blatently racist with no article or outrage? I think it has something to do with people's fear that if they indulge what they believe is covertly racist, then they are in fact racist, or at the very least accomodating it. Blatent racism doesn't need outing because everyone knows its there? :roll:

Therefore we get people who get offended when they believe they sense unintended racial undertones.

Should we hear them out? Maybe.
Does it really matter if Tiny Tina characters dialogue is racist or not? Not in the least.
Should the developer think about changing the character? Absolutely not.[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iOGfUdn0o&list=PLFFD6A0EEAF99EFD5

So depictions of hook-nosed Jews, bucktoothed ching chong chinaman Asians, and minstrelized black people should just be accepted in media even when they're purposely and specifically used to target and be derogatory in nature? And that it doesn't matter because those characters aren't "real?" The fact that those images still exist and people support them as being acceptable is an indictment on how larger society views certain groups. There's a reason why The Phantom Menace gets a lot of flak outside of it being a shitty movie.

The question isn't whether or not the character is racist, but the reason why the character was designed this way, what reactions did the devs expect, and how did the devs what the character to be interpreted. Having a white girl talk in the popular vernacular isn't anything new and the reason why that guy called it a "trope" and problematic.

Intended or not, those undertones are there, so you'd be best served by being careful with how you present your work. You can do whatever you want with criticisms, but only an idiot wouldn't take them into consideration if they're trying to sell a product.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']

So depictions of hook-nosed Jews, bucktoothed ching chong chinaman Asians, and minstrelized black people should just be accepted in media even when they're purposely and specifically used to target and be derogatory in nature? And that it doesn't matter because those characters aren't "real?" The fact that those images still exist and people support them as being acceptable is an indictment on how larger society views certain groups. There's a reason why The Phantom Menace gets a lot of flak outside of it being a shitty movie.

The question isn't whether or not the character is racist, but the reason why the character was designed this way, what reactions did the devs expect, and how did the devs what the character to be interpreted. Having a white girl talk in the popular vernacular isn't anything new and the reason why that guy called it a "trope" and problematic.

Intended or not, those undertones are there, so you'd be best served by being careful with how you present your work. You can do whatever you want with criticisms, but only an idiot wouldn't take them into consideration if they're trying to sell a product.[/QUOTE]

I am not going to get into a debate with race with you, as you tend to go off of the deep end. We clearly have two different systems of belief when it comes to unintended and intended racism. I simply believe you can construe racism in anything, and that we shouldnt waste our time and energy fighting things that clearly aren't a fight.

The world is going to be a boring place when you all drain it of any comedy for fear of offending anything/anyone. And no, this doesn't mean that the racists can have a free for all, it means we should be smart and choose our battles instead of having a few white kids feel awkward about a non issue that doesn't hurt anyone.

I just have one question: What voice do you think Tiny Tina should have had?
 
[quote name='Knoell']

The world is going to be a boring place when you all drain it of any comedy for fear of offending anything/anyone. And no, this doesn't mean that the racists can have a free for all, it means we should be smart and choose our battles instead of having a few white kids feel awkward about a non issue that doesn't hurt anyone.

[/QUOTE]

In dohdough's world, everything hurts everyone. And you should be deeply ashamed for everything you've ever done to anyone. Ever.

This is absolutely a non issue. Reminds me of the controversy surrounding jar jar binks. Yeah, that character sucked ass but not because it was racist.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I am not going to get into a debate with race with you, as you tend to go off of the deep end. We clearly have two different systems of belief when it comes to unintended and intended racism. I simply believe you can construe racism in anything, and that we shouldnt waste our time and energy fighting things that clearly aren't a fight.[/quote]
In other words, racism, in any form, isn't worth fighting because Supreme Racism Expert Knoell says so. It's just words and pictures cause sticks and stones.

The world is going to be a boring place when you all drain it of any comedy for fear of offending anything/anyone. And no, this doesn't mean that the racists can have a free for all, it means we should be smart and choose our battles instead of having a few white kids feel awkward about a non issue that doesn't hurt anyone.
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What you're suggesting explicitly gives racism a free-for-all because in a previous post, you said that they're just fictional characters and not worth fighting, and in this post, you say that it's not worth fighting and no one's getting hurt. Seriously, do you even read your OWN posts?

I just have one question: What voice do you think Tiny Tina should have had?
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I have an even better question: Did you even bother to read any of my posts on this fucking page or are you incapable of it because of some weird form of ADD that doesn't allow you to do so? Here's a hint, I already answered this question.

[quote name='confoosious']In dohdough's world, everything hurts everyone. And you should be deeply ashamed for everything you've ever done to anyone. Ever.[/quote]
Sounds like someone's feeling some "guilt" and is feeling persecuted. Although, this isn't something that you'd be aware of because you'd rather make passive aggressive insults and argue with your imaginary caricature of me rather than my actual points.

This is absolutely a non issue. Reminds me of the controversy surrounding jar jar binks. Yeah, that character sucked ass but not because it was racist.
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You're absolutely right. Characters based on racist stereotypes is something that just doesn't exist and never did. Tell me more about your treatise on how Jar Jar, and other characters from The Phantom Menace, isn't even close to being racist. And if that term is too "strong" for you, substitute it for "based on racial stereotypes."

Btw, I think you two jokers are hilarious for saying that I'm TOO XTREME, when the entire time, you're the ones guiding the discussion down that path with hyperbole and strawmen. It's simply amazing.
 
[quote name='confoosious']That George Lucas is a huge racist.[/QUOTE]
20atao9.jpg


Congratulations on being more of a parody than you've ever accused me of being.:applause:

I also find it hilarious when you resort to trolling when hitting your intellectual ceiling.
 
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See, if you'd get off your nice little carousel of anger, hate, and seeing racism at every turn, you'd realize that mockingly calling George Lucas a huge racist is important.

Because obviously, George Lucas is not a huge racist. So while jar jar binks sucks as a character, it was not grounded in racism. But that's what people like you love to claim about everything.

When everything is racist, then you drown out real racism.

Edit. I'm sure you'll take this as an opportunity to play the martyr and talk about how I'm attacking you. When in fact, it is completely germane to the topic at hand. When people like this developer (and you), cry about stupid things like these, important racial issues get ignored.
 
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[quote name='confoosious']See, if you'd get off your nice little carousel of anger, hate, and seeing racism at every turn, you'd realize that mockingly calling George Lucas a huge racist is important.[/quote]
First off, EL OH EL:roll:

Secondly, mockingly calling Lucas a huge racist isn't important at all when you don't define it or give reasons as to why we should use your definition. Saying that it's "obvious" isn't a reason. Saying that he hires black people and married a black woman aren't good reasons either. Are you saying that a guy with an Asian fetish isn't racist because he doesn't "hate" them, but likes them because of racist stereotypes or that his preferences are informed by them?

Because obviously, George Lucas is not a huge racist. So while jar jar binks sucks as a character, it was not grounded in racism. But that's what people like you love to claim about everything.
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Pretend I don't know anything about racism for a moment eventhough you probably already think I don't. How is Lucas not a huge racist? Why does Jar Jar "suck" as a character? Explain how is it not grounded in racism?

You bloviate about how "people like me" see racism in "everything" and try to explain it away with "common sense" or "it's obvious" that it isn't. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

When everything is racist, then you drown out real racism.
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What is "real racism?"

And since we're on the subject on Lucas and racism, you didn't say shit in that thread about people saying racist shit about his wife and no one else really did either. Something to think about.

edit:
Edit. I'm sure you'll take this as an opportunity to play the martyr and talk about how I'm attacking you. When in fact, it is completely germane to the topic at hand. When people like this developer (and you), cry about stupid things like these, important racial issues get ignored.
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LOLZ@your edit. Is it really that hard for you to separate your fictionalized version of me from the actual content of my posts? Do you ignore the content of your own posts too? Cause you've been pretty damn insulting in a lot of your posts including this one.

edit2: Personally, I feel more insulted by your lack of creativity in your insults.
 
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Unlike you, I don't have my antennae out for every perceived racial slight that happens to everyone everywhere. So I have no idea if people were talking about George Lucas' wife in racist tones in that one thread long ago. Or I ignored them.

You know what I thought when I saw he married that woman? Damn, those two have more money than god.

I know you love throwing around terms like straw man arguments and other debate tactics / "bloviate" / "specious" / etc you've gathered like wool. It's quite comical. How's that working out for you.

Look, I know you're used to arguing with mouth breathing right wing nutjobs who think Jesus rode dinosaurs to work but stop with that nonsense.

Your intro to philosophy and roget's don't impress me much.
 
[quote name='confoosious']Unlike you, I don't have my antennae out for every perceived racial slight that happens to everyone everywhere. So I have no idea if people were talking about George Lucas' wife in racist tones in that one thread long ago. Or I ignored them.

You know what I thought when I saw he married that woman? Damn, those two have more money than god.

I know you love throwing around terms like straw man arguments and other debate tactics / "bloviate" / "specious" / etc you've gathered like wool. It's quite comical. How's that working out for you.

Your intro to philosophy and roget's don't impress me much.[/QUOTE]
So is this post an attack or not? Five out of those eight sentences are meant as disparaging remarks and your "explanation" of what is/isn't racism leads me to believe that it might be an attack, but who knows when you like using nebulous terms. Am I mistaken or does it have to be all eight sentences to be one? I'll let you set the guidelines for what constitutes as an "attack" here.

Either way, it sure as hell doesn't seem like you're interested backing up your statements as to why Lucas is/isn't racist, why Jar Jar sucks as a character, or how it isn't grounded in racism and would rather trade insults. I guess this is what you call "debating."
 
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