NPR article: Disability is the new Welfare hotness

E

egofed

CAGiversary!
http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

"Every month, 14 million people now get a disability check from the government. The federal government spends more money each year on cash payments for disabled former workers than it spends on food stamps and welfare combined. Yet people relying on disability payments are often overlooked in discussions of the social safety net. People on federal disability do not work. Yet because they are not technically part of the labor force, they are not counted among the unemployed."


"In Hale County, Alabama, 1 in 4 working-age adults is on disability."


"People don't seem to be faking this pain, but it gets confusing. I have back pain. My editor has a herniated disc, and he works harder than anyone I know. There must be millions of people with asthma and diabetes who go to work every day. Who gets to decide whether, say, back pain makes someone disabled?"


"

What grade did you finish, of course, is not really a medical question. But Dr. Timberlake believes he needs this information in disability cases because people who have only a high school education aren't going to be able to get a sit-down job.
Dr. Timberlake is making a judgment call that if you have a particular back problem and a college degree, you're not disabled. Without the degree, you are." Such BULLSHIT:roll:


"Scotty, I'm gonna be honest with you," the guy told him. "There's nobody gonna hire you … We're just hiding you guys." The staff member's advice to Scott was blunt: "Just suck all the benefits you can out of the system until everything is gone, and then you're on your own."


"People who leave the workforce and go on disability qualify for Medicare, the government health care program that also covers the elderly. They also get disability payments from the government of about $13,000 a year. This isn't great. But if your alternative is a minimum wage job that will pay you at most $15,000 a year, and probably does not include health insurance, disability may be a better option."


"People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check."


"Let's imagine that happens. Jahleel starts doing better in school, overcomes some of his disabilities. He doesn't need the disability program anymore. That would seem to be great for everyone, except for one thing: It would threaten his family's livelihood. Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability."


How do we fix this? How crazy is it that doctors are basically granting disabled status to people with conditions that plenty of workers have? I'm interested to hear what the progressives on here make of this info, no snark intended;).
 
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[quote name='Clak']http://www.suntimes.com/news/16223345-418/felon-chicago-firefighter-got-disability-deal.html

Just for giggles...[/QUOTE]


Crazy stuff indeed! It just goes to show how many people are gaming the welfare and disability systems.

PS: I know you meant this as an insult against me being a firefighter, but lazy a-hole moochers come in all shapes, sizes, and occupations. Are you suggesting that since one firefighter is crooked that they all are? Why, that'd be like me saying because Jesse Jackson Jr is a thief that all Democrats are thieves....;). I would like to hear your actual thoughts on the article's content.
 
I actually heard this on NPR last week while driving into work. It was a good story and pretty surprising coming from them.

What he didn't mention is that according to the show is states actually want more people on Disability vs Welfare. (Welfare comes from state dollars, disability from federal.)

The story also had an interview with a company hired by states that reviews that states welfare rolls, and finds people who then qualify for disability. The company then arranges all of your doctors appointments and gets paid by the state when you qualify for disability.

Disability also pays more than welfare and so it's better deal for those on it..

The downside is that disability is generally treated as permanent and there's no incentive to get off it as there would be with a welfare to work program.
 
[quote name='egofed']Crazy stuff indeed! It just goes to show how many people are gaming the welfare and disability systems.

PS: I know you meant this as an insult against me being a firefighter, but lazy a-hole moochers come in all shapes, sizes, and occupations. Are you suggesting that since one firefighter is crooked that they all are? Why, that'd be like me saying because Jesse Jackson Jr is a thief that all Democrats are thieves....;). I would like to hear your actual thoughts on the article's content.[/QUOTE]
What the hell is up with your persecution complex? No one's hating on you for being a firefighter or hating on firefghters in general. Clak is clowning on you because you act like you're some kind of epitome of a firefighter and you assume that your profession gives you special insight into the world that you merely make vocational excursions into while treating them as if your "average" excursion is someone's day-to-day life.

Get off it, man.:roll:

Back on topic: I don't see how working a low-pay unskilled position is any incentive for anything. Until you address that without saying "bootstraps" while wanting to strip a vast amount of social services from existence, you're just, to quote Blade, another "motherfucker always trying to skate uphill." Throwing people off the dole won't magically create jobs; it'll just flood the market with more lower-skilled workers and depress wages. More people looking for work does NOT equal more work available for people.
 
[quote name='dohdough']
Back on topic: I don't see how working a low-pay unskilled position is any incentive for anything. Until you address that without saying "bootstraps" while wanting to strip a vast amount of social services from existence, you're just, to quote Blade, another "motherfucker always trying to skate uphill."[/QUOTE]

We need incentives to work and earn a living now?
 
[quote name='Knoell']We need incentives to work and earn a living now?[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked, minimum wage isn't exactly a "living" and what the hell do you think a wage is if not an incentive? Charity perhaps? I guess that would make perfect sense to you.
 
[quote name='dohdough']What the hell is up with your persecution complex? No one's hating on you for being a firefighter or hating on firefghters in general. Clak is clowning on you because you act like you're some kind of epitome of a firefighter and you assume that your profession gives you special insight into the world that you merely make vocational excursions into while treating them as if your "average" excursion is someone's day-to-day life.

Get off it, man.:roll:

Back on topic: I don't see how working a low-pay unskilled position is any incentive for anything. Until you address that without saying "bootstraps" while wanting to strip a vast amount of social services from existence, you're just, to quote Blade, another "motherfucker always trying to skate uphill." Throwing people off the dole won't magically create jobs; it'll just flood the market with more lower-skilled workers and depress wages. More people looking for work does NOT equal more work available for people.[/QUOTE]I know right, who knew that firefighters were such a persecuted group of people? Next thing you know, the Christian right will start talking about how Christmas is under attack.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Last time I checked, minimum wage isn't exactly a "living" and what the hell do you think a wage is if not an incentive? Charity perhaps? I guess that would make perfect sense to you.[/QUOTE]

I thought I read that congress is trying to get min wage up to $9/hr by 2016.

$18,000 a year isn't enough to live lavishly but it is enough to live on.
 
[quote name='Clak']I know right, who knew that firefighters were such a persecuted group of people? Next thing you know, the Christian right will start talking about how Christmas is under attack.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather know what right-wing rag he pulled the article from because all he did was pull select quotes out of the article as if that was the whole story. I saw the OP and knew right away he was trying to pull a fast one.

[quote name='GBAstar']I thought I read that congress is trying to get min wage up to $9/hr by 2016.

$18,000 a year isn't enough to live lavishly but it is enough to live on.[/QUOTE]
Before we even get to what one can do on $18k per year, do you honestly believe that this will happen? My Magic 8-ball says no way in hell.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Last time I checked, minimum wage isn't exactly a "living" and what the hell do you think a wage is if not an incentive? Charity perhaps? I guess that would make perfect sense to you.[/QUOTE]

So we need an incentive in order to commit time to an incentive?

Gotcha.
 
I actually heard the same piece on NPR, and this is really more about the states trying to get more people onto federal aid rather than state aid. Suddenly the infallible "state" doesn't seem so infallible.
 
[quote name='Knoell']So we need an incentive in order to commit time to an incentive?

Gotcha.[/QUOTE]
It's your own loopy logic and rhetorical game. Blame yourself for trying to make a vacuous sound bite with it.

[quote name='Clak']I actually heard the same piece on NPR, and this is really more about the states trying to get more people onto federal aid rather than state aid. Suddenly the infallible "state" doesn't seem so infallible.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. OP didn't hear the broadcast or read the article. He pulled a Faux Newbz.:rofl:
 
Funny how you guys are completely ignoring the meat of the article that states disability cases skyrocketing (especially in "back pain") despite medical advances and and laws against workplace discrimination against disabilities.

Hahaha, you guys are pulling a msnBS #-o:roll:
 
[quote name='GBAstar']House votes 86-58 to raise minimum wage to $9 by 2016

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/03/27/politics/house-votes-86-58-to-raise-minimum-wage-to-9-by-2016/

You tell me...

Democratic bill... democratic majority... better hurry up and get that shit passed![/QUOTE]
I hate to break it to you, buddy...but Maine isn't the US. Might want to fill us in on changing the scale before you do it cause...you know...it's misleading as fuck.

Btw, is that newspaper your only source of news or something?:rofl:
 
dohdough seems to take issues in a set way it's quite fucked up. I remember talking racism with him, and he straight away took it like 'as a liberal i must view the racism topic is ours, our right, it's something we understand not you' which i found pretty insulting and mindwarped given racism is not an issue which is relevant to a party vote affiliation in any way shape or form.

But he's doing it here again, seeing a topic remembering he's liberal and then weighing up what liberals think on these issues and taking that side. It's almost like he's a paid politican, that's exactly how most of these guys operate.

18 thousand a year is enough to live on of course, it's more than enough. Obviously if you want cable tv a good car, the newest tablet it may not be sufficient. If these people have not got the skills or qualifications to earn better than that, oh well?

It's clear that there's a large number of people abusing the system, mostly liberals lets be real. They want to get paid by us for doing nothing and some people defend their right to do so. In doing so there's a whole generation of people with absolutely no work ethic or any clue how to obtain or keep a job. This is the real problem. Because if you have no work ethic how can you teach your kids to have one?
 
[quote name='granturismo']
wiz-of-oz_scarecrow.jpg
[/QUOTE]

You really set me straight there!:rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yekGSC4xxpc

edit: FYI, I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread knows who I am and if they really wanted to go to my profile, they could just find it on my handle. I'm dying to know why you decided to hyperlink it and bold your entire post as if it gave more gravitas when in reality, it's more like doing jazz hands. Actually, it's so tacky that it gives jazz hands a bad name.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']I'd rather know what right-wing rag he pulled the article from because all he did was pull select quotes out of the article as if that was the whole story. I saw the OP and knew right away he was trying to pull a fast one.


Before we even get to what one can do on $18k per year, do you honestly believe that this will happen? My Magic 8-ball says no way in hell.[/QUOTE]


What are you talking about? I read the article on NPR.org. And what "fast one" am I trying to pull? I think state gov't's are just as crooked, over reaching, and inefficient as the federal gov't in most cases. I do like the idea of being able to move to another state if I dislike a certain state's policies.

I've lived on less than $18k a year before. Don't have kids and its quite doable. You gotta realize that you can't have a family, new car, cable, flat screen TV, etc UNTIL you ACTUALLY produce and contribute to society. People want it all without the work these days. If your born rich, more power to ya, otherwise man up, use what resources ARE available, graduate high school, don't knock up the first chick you see, stay off drugs, avoid illegal activities, and don't expect a check from strangers every month. But what does an attention whore with a persecution complex know?:roll: I swear, for liberals, you and myke are the most intolerant, prejudiced people I debate with. Why can't you be more like my good friend, Clak?;)
 
[quote name='egofed']What are you talking about? I read the article on NPR.org. And what "fast one" am I trying to pull? I think state gov't's are just as crooked, over reaching, and inefficient as the federal gov't in most cases. I do like the idea of being able to move to another state if I dislike a certain state's policies.[/quote]
If that's ALL you got out of the article, then you didn't really understand it. And if you didn't want people being suspicious of your sources, maybe you shouldn't be spamming the board with them. Remember the story of the boy that cried wolf? That's you, holmes. Don't blame others for you poisoning your own well. At least "man up" to it.

I've lived on less than $18k a year before. Don't have kids and its quite doable. You gotta realize that you can't have a family, new car, cable, flat screen TV, etc UNTIL you ACTUALLY produce and contribute to society. People want it all without the work these days. If your born rich, more power to ya, otherwise man up, use what resources ARE available, graduate high school, don't knock up the first chick you see, stay off drugs, avoid illegal activities, and don't expect a check from strangers every month. But what does an attention whore with a persecution complex know?:roll: I swear, for liberals, you and myke are the most intolerant, prejudiced people I debate with. Why can't you be more like my good friend, Clak?;)
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Tell me more about what it's like to live on $18k after being raised on the salary of a school administrator and whatever your other parent did. It's exactly the same as growing up in the ghetto-ist ghetto because money comes from tax dollas y'all!
 
You know what's funny about all of this? Despite all the talk about welfare being a handout and everything, no welfare recipients call me multiple times a year asking for money.
 
[quote name='dohdough']If that's ALL you got out of the article, then you didn't really understand it.
[/QUOTE]

Says the guy who only acknowledges a footnote out of the article.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Says the guy who only acknowledges a footnote out of the article.[/QUOTE]

I have an even better idea: How about instead of trying to get cast as the Scarecrow in a local theater production of the Wizard of Oz, you read my posts instead and see if the CONTEXT is consistent with my responses instead of little islands of 1's and 0's.
 
[quote name='dohdough']If that's ALL you got out of the article, then you didn't really understand it. And if you didn't want people being suspicious of your sources, maybe you shouldn't be spamming the board with them. Remember the story of the boy that cried wolf? That's you, holmes. Don't blame others for you poisoning your own well. At least "man up" to it.


Tell me more about what it's like to live on $18k after being raised on the salary of a school administrator and whatever your other parent did. It's exactly the same as growing up in the ghetto-ist ghetto because money comes from tax dollas y'all![/QUOTE]


HHAHHHAAHHAHAHHHEHEHHEHHHEHHHEHEHHE...whooooooo...thanks for always making me laugh. Got Easter brunch, then more well poisoning, and wolf crying to do. I'll try to reply after my shift on Monday. Happy Easter everybody! He has Risen!
 
[quote name='Knoell']Funny how you guys are completely ignoring the meat of the article that states disability cases skyrocketing (especially in "back pain") despite medical advances and and laws against workplace discrimination against disabilities.[/QUOTE]
The laws against discrimination are counter-productive. Instead of sitting down with a prospective employee and that employee explaining how their disability will not get in the way of the work, employers will be reluctant to hire a disabled person because they don't want someone wheeling around looking for small things to sue the company for. Most disabled workers will not do that, but the threat is enough.

Anyway, NPR did a whole series on this that was really great. Media Matters even went after Ira Glass and I admire Glass for defending NPR's work.
 
I hope you guys understand that not all liberals are like doh dough, yeah?

I consider myself liberal and he doesn't speak for me at all.
 
[quote name='confoosious']man, you really do love throwing that straw man argument thing around.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, calling people out on making them is so much worse than the people actually making them. It's almost as if being intolerant of someone's bigotry is as bad as being that bigot!:roll:

edit: Hmmm...ninja'd your quote eh? Anyways, liberal!=leftist. HTH
 
[quote name='dohdough']Yeah, calling people out on making them is so much worse than the people actually making them. It's almost as if being intolerant of someone's bigotry is as bad as being that bigot!:roll:[/QUOTE]

No, the reason I call you out on it is that it's like the only arrow in your quiver.

edit: didn't mean to ninja my quote. I stand by it. As for the other portion, you give liberals a bad name.
 
[quote name='confoosious']No, the reason I call you out on it is that it's like the only arrow in your quiver.

edit: didn't mean to ninja my quote. I stand by it. As for the other portion, you give liberals a bad name.[/QUOTE]

joker.gif


Did you not understand a single word/concept in my post or something?

edit: The only thing "left" about most what is commonly known as "liberals" is that they're to the left of the right-wing lunatic fringe, which is now mainstream right-wing ideology. Today's (neo)liberals are nothing more than centrists that are only "The Left" because of the Overton Window. But hey, I'm just some dumb fucker on the internet that only calls people out on strawmen because that's the only fallacy I learned about in that one highschool debate class I attended. Maybe that will square that circle for you.

edit2: I also didn't realize that I spoke for you or anyone else that's to the left of the lunatic fringe or that the lunatic fringe holds me up as an example of the "average liberal." I guess it's my own fault for not putting up a disclaimer about not representing everyone that people think I represent.
 
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"Lunatic fringe." That's rich.

ok, time to ignore before I get banned for arguing. (Even though I thought it was ok to argue in the Vs forum... but whatever.)
 
[quote name='confoosious']Every time I read one of your posts, with all your silly little labels, I hear Chuck D in my head saying "talking loud and saying nothin'" But hey, that's what you like, isn't it? People attacking you so you can play the victim.[/quote]
If you don't understand the terminology, you could ask me to clarify them or you could go learn about them on your own. Sticking your fingers in your ears while stammering about how meaningless the words are is your own failing, not mine.

You accuse people of attacking you and never the issue. But you don't address the issue, you just like to spin a little cloud of obfuscation and hope nobody calls you to task for it. Dohdough, defender of everyone!
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Or maybe I'm just tired of writing 500 word posts that the opposition will just ignore and play dumb about. My last few posts? You barely understood a goddamn thing I wrote and what you didn't understand? You wrote it off as blatherskite. You want to see some more effort? Then provide some of your own.

I would love for someone to knock these right wing nut jobs down a peg or two. God knows I don't agree with their views. Unfortunately, the loudest person is you.
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And you're mostly silent except on the occasions such as this one to chide me on my "tone." What's your point if you're not doing it yourself? You have a brain; use it.

But don't mind me. I just should learn to ignore.
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You just about ignore all the other crazy bullshit you don't agree with from right-wing nutjobs here so you're already off to a good start.

Ninja'd again??? So much for standing by what you said.:applause:

Here's an olive branch: Let me know if you want me to delete your original post.
 
[quote name='dohdough']
Ninja'd again??? So much for standing by what you said.:applause:

Here's an olive branch: Let me know if you want me to delete your original post.[/QUOTE]


I didn't edit my post because I don't stand by what I said. I edited my post because I realized you weren't worth getting banned over. I don't know which mod patrols the vs forum and I don't know if arguing like this is against the rules or what.

So, no need for olive branches.

As for actually standing up for what I believe in, I could make the greatest argument ever against some of these right wing nutjobs (not saying I am even capable of it or that I will), and it'd be lost because of your nonsense. *That* is my point. Your noise is drowning out sensible argument. You're just as bad as the right wing nut jobs... you just play for the other side.
 
[quote name='confoosious']I didn't edit my post because I don't stand by what I said. I edited my post because I realized you weren't worth getting banned over. I don't know which mod patrols the vs forum and I don't know if arguing like this is against the rules or what.

So, no need for olive branches.

As for actually standing up for what I believe in, I could make the greatest argument ever against some of these right wing nutjobs (not saying I am even capable of it or that I will), and it'd be lost because of your nonsense. *That* is my point. Your noise is drowning out sensible argument. You're just as bad as the right wing nut jobs... you just play for the other side.[/QUOTE]
LOLZ...after all that, now you want to go back to this argument:
[quote name='dohdough']It's almost as if being intolerant of someone's bigotry is as bad as being that bigot![/QUOTE]


Seriously, get over yourself. You don't contribute jack shit except to make "tone" arguments against me. Do you really think it makes sense in this medium that I'm the one to blame for drowning out "sensible" arguments or people ignoring you? If you make a point and they ignore it is because they don't care to address it. Mykevermin and speedracer make super informed posts ALL THE DAMNED TIME. Do you see any substantive engagement against their arguments? Posting on the internet is not a zero sum game, so stop blaming me for your inadequacy or lack of someone else's engagement. If you make a good argument and someone completely skips over it, then call them out. Picking on my tone is like picking low-hanging fruit that you don't even want anyways. All your whining about me is weaksauce.

Maybe if you spent half your effort being critical instead of just being a critic, vs. would be for the better. Create the content you want to see instead of blaming others for not providing it for you. Even egofed understands this. This is vs.; not the front lines for conflicting political ideologies.

FYI, no one gets banned unless they get reported and since you're arguing with me, it's not something you should worry about if history is worth anything and you ain't all that (edit: and neither am I).
 
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