Quick question about making Illegals legal and not getting benefits

you been hearing on the news about how they want to make all of these illegal immigrants legal as long as they dont break any laws, learn english blah blah blah and they wont be able to get benefits..


how stupid do they really think we are, do you really think they are going to make a Illegal legal and have 5 children and they go we dont have any money

Do you really think they are going to let these children go hungry no they will put them right on food stamps and all the other benefits they said they would never got


i mean you really got to be stupid if you think they will not get benefits


if this happens why The should anyone work when they just give free cash to what another 11 million people

Frankly I'm mad the AP has said they will no longer use the term Illegal Immigrants in their handbook. Do you call a burglar an Undocumented Trepasser?
Talk about trying to soften the language to change opinion.
In terms of fixing the illegal immigration problem we need to acknowledge lies mainly with one set of people: Spanish illegals coming from the South, be it Mexico or further south. This being said, the current laws need to be strictly enforced on employers. Also, the media needs to be chastised for pandering to those that are in the country illegally. What other countries have Spanish subtitles or dubbing for English programming in a country where the main language is English? What about mainstream cable actually having a channel in the United States which is entirely spoken in Spanish(Univision)? Do they even have English subtitles for it? I know HBO Latino doesn't. ( This, my dear people, is called pandering.
What about the ATM's having a Spanish option or places you pay your bill at? If you have the proper paperwork to open a bank or Credit Union account here then speaking English should be no problem for you or only a little bit.
After we've come to terms with these things and response accordingly with the employers as I said before, then maybe this idea can start to come to fruition. However, these people will be placed FIRMLY at the back of the line. If they can really wait and learn English then fine. Chances are most would just as soon take the money they made and run back with the Mexican flag they were waving at an immigration rally, going back to Mexico.
I think one of the portraits that really summed up what I'm saying about the current pro-immigration reform side is summed up by Amy Goodman's interview with a man who is being indefinitely detained at an ICE center. You see, the man couldn't even speak English to plead his case, his wife had to INTERPRET for him!!!! X-(

i really dont care if they are illegal or legal as long as they work i have no problem with them coming...

now if they want to come here and think they can sit on their asses all day and do nothing and expect everything to be paid for them that has to be a stop to before it even gets started

Now THIS is a slidecage thread!

Oh and extra LULZ@"pandering." Color me surprised at seeing "libertarians" being clueless as to how capitalism works.

edit: Ok, I'm feeling generous. Advertising and media targeted at Spanish speakers has absolutely nothing to do with being "PC" or inclusive, but to separate those people from their money. This is pretty basic, guys.

I know it does doh but it encourages them to NOT learn English.

However you can't tell me why a bank or credit union account, in the United States, would have a Spanish option. If you've got the paperwork you should be able to speak the language enough to ask questions and understand the responses. The only thing that would make sense is that somehow illegals are able to set up bank accounts, which makes no sense to me.

[quote name='Sarang01']I know it does doh but it encourages them to NOT learn English.

However you can't tell me why a bank or credit union account, in the United States, would have a Spanish option. If you've got the paperwork you should be able to speak the language enough to ask questions and understand the responses. The only thing that would make sense is that somehow illegals are able to set up bank accounts, which makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if you knew some recent immigrants from non-English speaking countries, you wouldn't be so puzzled as to why or so quick to judge. Adult ESL classes don't exactly have a lot of seats and aren't exactly conducive to the schedules of the types of employment that most non-English speaking immigrants tend to have. I've spent many weekends and nights of my youth tutoring for free

I've spent many weekends and nights of my youth tutoring for free and there were never too many tutors, so no, I don't think you really understand what you seem to think you do.

Thanks slidecage. VS has been pretty quiet these past few days

Remember - one of the big reasons some of our left leaning folks have used to express their support for illegal immigration is that the illegal immigrants help keep costs down because they work on farms and such at lower wages than what citizens will do the work for.

Of course, in their next breath, they cry about slave labor and such.

[quote name='UncleBob']Remember - one of the big reasons some of our left leaning folks have used to express their support for illegal immigration is that the illegal immigrants help keep costs down because they work on farms and such at lower wages than what citizens will do the work for.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I think that cuts both ways, and is part of the reason most of the work involving solving immigration problems ends up being mainly lip service. I mean, if our legislators were really serious about the problem, why don't they make stricter penalties on those that employ illegals? It creates cheaper products, but is also a source of cheap labor.

Why not create stricter penalties on anyone knowingly involved in, or that failed to take reasonable measures to avoid, an employment agreement on false terms? This means the employer if they knowingly hired someone that is ineligible for work in the US, the employer if they didn't do reasonable research to qualify the employees eligibility, and the employee if they took the job knowing that they were ineligible to have the job (with even tougher penalties if they used fake identification to get the job).

Maybe the i-9 should be mandatory everywhere and let the penalties roll from there. I'm sure there are ways around it, I had a few co-workers basically loose there job because of this.

[quote name='UncleBob']Remember - one of the big reasons some of our right leaning folks have used to express their support for illegal immigration is that the illegal immigrants help keep costs down because they work on farms and such at lower wages than what citizens will do the work for.

Of course, in their next breath, they cry about slave labor and such.[/QUOTE]

Fixed that for you.

Lefties (as far as I know) around here prefer making them legal. Citizenship means they don't have to fear deportation if they report being paid $1 an hour to their state authorities.

Conservatives prefer the status quo because obviously it's cheaper for businesses (our saviors) to pay a non-citizen less than minimum wage and omit benefits.

I thought illegal immigration was on the decline anyway since the Great Recession. Is this not the case?

[quote name='Clak']This is why I've said we owe illegal immigrants a measure of thanks. Much like the workers in China who make our shit for cheap to keep prices down, these folks are working our farms for cheap, keeping the price for produce lower than it really should be. But no, we'd rather shit on them and blame them for all our problems.[/QUOTE]

I never really considered Clak to be right leaning.

I know there's a few more posts like that by a few other members, but, alas, I have to get ready for work and can't/don't want to spend more time looking.

Maybe I shouldn't speak for the others around here. I honestly don't remember Clak. I know Myke and DohDough do not support domestic slave labor via undocumented immigrants. Correct me again if I'm incorrect.

Clak has a point (though he's being sarcastic as far as I can tell). It's not entirely off base to claim that the work of illegal immigrants has saved the populace money. Granted I think most of the "savings" is lining the pockets of upper management. To be clear I am for a means of obtaining citizenship, not exploiting poor immigrant workers.

The government doesn't seem willing/able to come down on employers who abuse the law. Legalize immigrants and they won't be preferable hires. Although I guess "off the books" will never disappear.

Bottom line to me is that if we let them stay (because it seems like the deportation option, while legally correct, would create additional unforseen problems for the families and for the country), we should not "reward" them with citizenship. A better solution, I think, would be something like a permanent green card status. I'm sure the Democrats would not go for that, citing it as being unfair to create a "sub-class" of citizens... but in reality opposing it because it deprives them of votes they think they'll be getting in the future for years (and generations?) to come.

bob old boy, you don't even understand what I meant by that. Wasn't being sarcastic either, for the record. Those people are owed many a thanks, we couldn't live the life styles we do without them. Every baby boomer I know bitches about the price of groceries, and shits on illegals at the same time. You want them out of the country? Be ready to pay more for your precious tomatoes.

You think the true price of health care is hidden from us, so is the true price of our food.

[quote name='Clak']bob old boy, you don't even understand what I meant by that. Wasn't being sarcastic either, for the record. Those people are owed many a thanks, we couldn't live the life styles we do without them. Every baby boomer I know bitches about the price of groceries, and shits on illegals at the same time. You want them out of the country? Be ready to pay more for your precious tomatoes.

You think the true price of health care is hidden from us, so is the true price of our food.[/QUOTE]

Sarcastic was the wrong word, my apologies. Your comment was not in support of continuing illegal immigration policuy as is, which was how Bob cited it.

[quote name='Clak']bob old boy, you don't even understand what I meant by that. Wasn't being sarcastic either, for the record. Those people are owed many a thanks, we couldn't live the life styles we do without them. Every baby boomer I know bitches about the price of groceries, and shits on illegals at the same time. You want them out of the country? Be ready to pay more for your precious tomatoes.

You think the true price of health care is hidden from us, so is the true price of our food.[/QUOTE]

Our entire economic system is built on exploiting those with disparate economic power. Relying on cheap illegal immigrant labor is just another example of this. Everyone's pushed from a young age that the only measure of success in this country is wealth and you should do anything you can do achieve that goal. The effect of that is it makes people justify their exploitation of others.

I was reading something earlier about those yearly (I believe) happiness studies they do. From reading through a few of them, it seems to me that the reason many other countries are happier isn't because they're doing particularly better economically, but because what makes them happy isn't what makes us happy. Hell, in that survey it had the majority of the people in Mexico describing themselves as happy, and most in the U.S. seem to think Mexico is a craphole.

[quote name='Clak']I was reading something earlier about those yearly (I believe) happiness studies they do. From reading through a few of them, it seems to me that the reason many other countries are happier isn't because they're doing particularly better economically, but because what makes them happy isn't what makes us happy. Hell, in that survey it had the majority of the people in Mexico describing themselves as happy, and most in the U.S. seem to think Mexico is a craphole.[/QUOTE]

That's because all the storybook tales we tell children about how money doesn't buy happiness aren't enough to outweigh everything else in our culture that teaches us to be greedy and that the only measure of success is wealth.

LOL there was a congress man already on tv  saying

ITS NOT FAIR IF THEY DONT GET FOOD STAMPS OR  WELEFARE 

these people