CAGcast #326: STRING

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]Join us for talk on Xbox One, used games, Metro: Last Light, GRID 2, Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, and much more nonsense!

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[podcast]236[/podcast]
Download (1 hour 19 minutes) - iTunes
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Kylie Minogue - The One (Stonecutters Mix) - IMDABES

[quote name='bickle']Show 326 Notes:

3:15 Watch This: MiB III, Dredd
6:15 Cagbag: Season finale of Arrow
9:30 Show Feedback
9:45 - MS conference & the dudebro audience
17:30 - MS non-inclusion of the headset
19:45 - Trading/borrowing
27:00 - PS4 Twitter #nodrm; Hackers, etc...
33:00 - 8-4 podcast
35:30 - Tied to the XBL ecosystem?
40:30 - 15 exclusives on XB1?
41:30 - XB1 name
44:45 New Releases
44:45 - Castlestorm
47:00 - Fuse
49:45 - Grid 2
51:30 - Donkey Kong Returns 3D
52:30 - Night of the Rabbit
53:00 Fallen Enchantress
54:00 Metro: Last Light
59:00 Call of Juarez: Gunslinger
1:01:15 Nvidia Shield
1:05:00 Wombat & Dark Souls
1:09:30 Nintendo/Best Buy E3 demo locations
1:13:00 Cagbag: relevance of E3 in general population decision making

Cheapy needs to make an guest star appearance on Uninformed Opinions.[/QUOTE]



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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.
 
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Great 'Cast as always. Regarding the Dredd vs The Raid thing; Dredd was in development longer. Word is the makers of The Raid got a leaked copy of the Dredd script, changed it a little, and filmed it.

So yeah, they are both great, and they did share a very similar script.
 
Call me maybe next nexgen Microsoft. Disappointed that illumiroom isn't going to come standard with XB1; we're only buying the PS4 this fall.


"I just want to put the disc in and have the console play the game when I turn it on."

@Wombat

Are you aware that buried in the system settings of your PS3 there is a setting called 'disc auto start' which when you turn on will make your PS3 do exactly what you're asking?!
 
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[quote name='BetaDemo']Call me maybe next nexgen Microsoft. Disappointed that illumiroom isn't going to come standard with XB1; we're only buying the PS4 this fall.[/QUOTE]

As the guys basically said in the show, how can you possibly have decided already?
 
I own a 360 and a PS3. I enjoy both consoles. I just feel like you glossed over Sony a little bit. I got the PS3 further into it's lifecycle. I missed a lot of the bumbling steps that Sony had (initial price, hack, etc.) but I think as a gaming console specifically it's hard to say that they haven't turned it around at least somewhat.

While microsoft focused on Kinect late in the gen (Sony had move but thankfully let it die), we are still getting exclusives on the PS3 like The Last of Us and Beyond Two Souls. PS Plus is a step in the right direction with the slow crawl to digital distribution we are currently in the middle of. Owning both a PS3 and a Vita I'm getting quite a bit of content for my $50 a year.

They are making a point to court indie developers which might not make a difference now, but in a few years the "Minecrafts" of the indie world might decide they don't want to jump through the MS hoops if there is an easier alternative.

They have said that all PS4 games will stream to the VITA. Does it work? Not sure but at least it's forward thinking.

I agree it's not right to point to Sony saying oh they will do everything right without all the details of used games etc...but I think their focus has actually been more razor sharp then ever and it's pointed at gamers specifically.

P.S. - As for slow downloads on the PS3, I have plus so I just setup everything to download overnight and have never seemed to have a problem doing it that way.

As always good show. Thanks guys.
 
[quote name='ChaosTony']As the guys basically said in the show, how can you possibly have decided already?[/QUOTE]


My available funds for entertainment systems upgrading made that decision for me. I'll prolly own a XB1 at some point in the future (own all three current gen machines) but THIS FALL is going to be PS4 exclusive in my household. My point was that had they included illumiroom I would've been tempted.
 
[quote name='BetaDemo']Call me maybe next nexgen Microsoft. Disappointed that illumiroom isn't going to come standard with XB1; we're only buying the PS4 this fall.


"I just want to put the disc in and have the console play the game when I turn it on."

@Wombat

Are you aware that buried in the system settings of your PS3 there is a setting called 'disc auto start' which when you turn on will make your PS3 do exactly what you're asking?![/QUOTE]

The 360 has a similar setting, but I was referring to the next gen consoles, not current gen.
 
Show 326 Notes:

3:15 Watch This: MiB III, Dredd
6:15 Cagbag: Season finale of Arrow
9:30 Show Feedback
9:45 - MS conference & the dudebro audience
17:30 - MS non-inclusion of the headset
19:45 - Trading/borrowing
27:00 - PS4 Twitter #nodrm; Hackers, etc...
33:00 - 8-4 podcast
35:30 - Tied to the XBL ecosystem?
40:30 - 15 exclusives on XB1?
41:30 - XB1 name
44:45 New Releases
44:45 - Castlestorm
47:00 - Fuse
49:45 - Grid 2
51:30 - Donkey Kong Returns 3D
52:30 - Night of the Rabbit
53:00 Fallen Enchantress
54:00 Metro: Last Light
59:00 Call of Juarez: Gunslinger
1:01:15 Nvidia Shield
1:05:00 Wombat & Dark Souls
1:09:30 Nintendo/Best Buy E3 demo locations
1:13:00 Cagbag: relevance of E3 in general population decision making

Cheapy needs to make an guest star appearance on Uninformed Opinions.
 
Any game where you are spec'ing towards a build and the respec option isn't easily obtained shouldn't be waded into cold and blind unless you have the stomach for restarting.

Take an hour to read some wikis and watch some videos because learning it the hard way in game often takes way longer. (I tend to go in blind and then read/watch after a restart or two because I like to learn the basics on my own)
 
Wombat, I'm impressed that you recalled "Century III" would be Pittsburgh-area (and you're right, it's not exactly the most convenient location for most people in Pittsburgh).

I'm completely undecided on the XB1 vs PS4 thing. I've preordered every previous Sony console AND the 360 for launch day, and bought an XBox within the "launch window". This time around, so far I'm "meh" on both, with a slight preference for the XB1 based on controller comfort, but if Sony really has improved the ergonomics of the PS4 pad, that could be a big swing.

Who am I kidding, I'll probably ultimately end up with both (except this time around I'll have to argue with the wife to justify it, every previous console launch was in my bachelor days... Wish me luck!)
 
The "loss upon upon death system"in Dark Souls is fairly similar to he Diablo 2 death system so I don't get what the big deal is. In Diablo 2 if you die, you drop your gear on your corpse, lose some experience and gold. If you journey back from town, naked and reclaim your body you get your gear and half of your lost experience back.

In Dark Souls, once you spend souls to level up, the souls can no longer be lost upon death (just like Diablo 2 XP). If you die, you keep your gear (unlike Diablo 2), you keep a full HP bar (unlike in Demon's Souls where it was reduced to 1/2 to 3/4ths in soul form), and if you reclaim your corpse you get ALL your lost souls back. Also unlike Demon's Souls their are mid-level check points where you can change your respawn point and refill your health flasks.

Seriously, if you have any questions at all, check out the CAG PS3 Dark Souls Thread and ask away (as it is about 22 times more active than the Xbox 360 Dark souls thread so you are more likely to get an answer there), and we'll do our best to help you along and explain any questions you have about the mechanics. Don't let them bully you into not even playing past the tutorial level, you must be doing alright if you got past the tutorial without too much difficulty as one of the harder starting classes.

===

It's assumed Microsoft will be worse because Microsoft is an asshole company who does things such as force a tablet-centric interface in Windows 8 against the wishes of the PC populace who thought they had refined things perfectly with Windows 7. Sony is in second position so they are more likely likely to be pliable to consumer pressure in a bid to catch up, they also kept multiplayer free and have an awesome game acquiring promotion in PS+ which has earned them much goodwill. Much like Apple used to be amiable to consumers when they were the underdog but now that they are in first position in the phone market they are ruthless, overcharge for hardware, use endless litigation as a weapon to shut down competition, etc.
 
[quote name='BetaDemo']
"I just want to put the disc in and have the console play the game when I turn it on."

@Wombat

Are you aware that buried in the system settings of your PS3 there is a setting called 'disc auto start' which when you turn on will make your PS3 do exactly what you're asking?![/QUOTE]

That never works for me when the PS3 is off. I will insert the disc and the PS3 will turn on and show me what has been uploaded/downloaded. I have to click X and then go to the disc to start it. It only works when the console is already on and running. It would be great to have it start at the game immediately, like the PS2, and without having to worry about downloading updates, etc.
 
Wombat,

When you are comparing Fuse to a game didn't you mean Brute Force (that original xbox game)? You compared it to Brutal Legend the Double Fine/Jack Black guitar adventure game ;)

Overall, I loved the show. Good work guys.
 
A baby also keeps you at home more which means more time to sort baseball cards.

But by year 2 you won't see the point after your kid vandalizes your cards when you accidentally leave a pile of them on the table.
 
I thought that Cheapy's sex-exchange analogy for Microsoft/Sony and their customers would be the most confusing moment of the show. Then I heard the hacking into the Xbox One's XBL platform discussion. Maybe Super Programmer John can give some thoughts on the security feasibility. I do appreciate the Mission Impossible jokes, but I suspect that XBL security is a point of pride for Microsoft even if they're not marketing it.

Fun episode as always.
 
[quote name='S0LIDARITY']I thought that Cheapy's sex-exchange analogy for Microsoft/Sony and their customers would be the most confusing moment of the show. Then I heard the hacking into the Xbox One's XBL platform discussion. Maybe Super Programmer John can give some thoughts on the security feasibility. I do appreciate the Mission Impossible jokes, but I suspect that XBL security is a point of pride for Microsoft even if they're not marketing it.

Fun episode as always.[/QUOTE]

What they mean't by hacking (at least what I could gather) is that they think they are going to get DDoSed for anti-consumer policies.

The Wii E3 locations were funny because a bunch of the places Wombat mentioned I have been.
I just talked to someone about a job in King of Prussia and I used to live in Visalia (which he pronounced incorrectly, is 40 minutes outside Fresno)
 
Regarding hackers, what's to say that they aren't already working on downing Xbox Live now (and PSN again, as well) to prove that an always on system isn't reliable? Why not make the point before the new system is out?
 
[quote name='SeanAmI']What they mean't by hacking (at least what I could gather) is that they think they are going to get DDoSed for anti-consumer policies.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I gathered that the hosts were concerned about a Denial of Service attempt or releasing a 'virus' into the server farm. I just think it's a lot easier said than done and would like to hear John's thoughts on it as he's dealt with automated web-crawlers spamming CAG and probably some other stuff like SQL-Injections.
 
Remember when 3DS came out parents wouldn't buy it because 3D might hurt their kids eyes? Is that still a thing?

The reason I ask because will those same people, casual consumer who doesn't read internet forums, not want a Xbox One because it has a spy camera that is forced to be on while using?

DRM/Used Games/Always Online/Region Lock/No Indie Self Publishing are some issues, but I think the main deal breaker will end up being forced Kinect 2.0.

Forbes has an article up, is this "main stream" enough that the TV Entertainment sports watching demo they are aiming for will see it? http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/05/27/the-five-biggest-problems-with-the-xbox-one/
 
I got a good laugh out of cheapy's sex analogy. It started pretty apt, then kinda went off the rails. The server hacking discussion reminded me of Jonathan Blow's comments this week - it certainly sounds like MS is being disingenuous regarding the number of servers & that they are probably just running a bunch of virtualized servers.

Also, thanks for answering my Metro Last Light question. I just couldn't get in to 2033 - the shooting felt too much like pray & spray and very little accuracy. Hopefully they put out a demo for Last Light.
 
my idea of a deal breaker: Always online, no used games, ALL games I buy this generation are essentially RENTED. I own NOTHING when those servers go down.

Wombat's deal breaker: No headset.

You guys need to get your heads out these guys asses and see what's really going on here boys.



And don't bring up Steam. I'm not a member.
 
[quote name='SeanAmI']
The Wii E3 locations were funny because a bunch of the places Wombat mentioned I have been.
I just talked to someone about a job in King of Prussia and I used to live in Visalia (which he pronounced incorrectly, is 40 minutes outside Fresno)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, plus he used San Francisco as an example and then listed Emeryville as a place that wasn't close. Actually, it is just over the Bay Bridge right next to Oakland and pretty damn centrally located for most of the Bay Area. Plus it is just off the freeway with lots of parking. Locations in San Francisco would be bad because it is pretty hard to get around there (and not near freeways for the most part) and most of the Bay Area's population doesn't live in SF anyway. (FYI, I grew up very close to Emeryville).

For you guys that lived in NY I'm shocked you don't see the value in putting these things in suburban areas. Those are usually easier to get to for a wider range of people than mid-city locations with their traffic and lack of parking. Yeah, inner-city dwellers without cars may be out of luck but there you go...

I would argue that the locations aren't all that bad - just that there aren't enough of them. But that could easily be explained in that they probably need some sort of Nintendo rep at each one and there probably aren't an endless supply of those ;).

I plan on hitting up one of them. It isn't all that convenient for me either as it is about a 40 minute drive. But I'm excited for what they are going to show especially if the rumored new 3D Mario (non-Galaxy, non-NSMB) game is playable.

---------------

As for Dark Souls, I'm actually quite surprised that none of you guys, especially Shipwreck, couldn't get into it. As guardian_owl said, if you managed to get through the Tutorial boss, then you have tackled what is probably the hardest part of the game. You guys really, really overstated the difficulty and the amount of dying/lack of progress. You can always make progress in the game, even if you don't open up one of the many shortcuts as you can level your character and get new gear. I rarely died without making some sort of progress and also didn't really have to grind until I was going for some of the tougher trophies.

I am by no means the most skilled and expert gamer and I didn't have all that much problem with either Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. I'd say Dark Souls is notably easier, though a few of the bosses (including that very first one) can be pretty tough. But you can make use of the online ability and summon people for help in those rare cases.

I also happen to think the game was stunningly beautiful. I don't get the "ugly" comments at all. The atmosphere is just incredible in both games. But you may have to get past the Tutorial stage to appreciate it a bit more. I also played it on the PS3 - maybe the ugliness is a 360 exclusive thing ;). I think a lot of people like the "you, alone, against the world" feel that it has. And yet, when needed, you can bring in another player to help you. The story is also handled in a very non-intrusive way - there's no overly talky NPCs handing out endless fetch quests.

In any case, I got a platinum on it (which means I went way above and beyond just finishing the game). It didn't take all that long and didn't involve too much looking stuff up on the Internet (outside of a few boss strategies - and I got all the info I needed right here on CAG). I'd wager that I spent far less time on it than Wombat spent on Skyrim. I haven't played Skyrim yet, but I'm surprised at his disparaging of the combat in Dark Souls. It is definitely much more tight and visceral than combat in Oblivion. I could never quite master it like some people do (I got slaughtered in PvP), but like I said I could manage enough to beat the game and then some.
 
Great Show as always guys. It's refreshing to hear more of a wait and see point of view when discussing all of this console brew ha ha. I think it will be awesome to see what both Sony and Micro have in store for us at E3.

Oh, and Wombat, I think you ment to say Brute Force instead of Brutal Legend.... I still have a copy of that game by the way, pretty fun shooter!
 
It IS weird that people just pop up at odd hours of the day to talk to Oliver. I can understand when people want to talk to Detective Lance, but who the hell is going to be at a nightclub at 9 in the morning, when janitors are cleaning up? Guys, did you think Merlyn's plan to blow up the city as insane if not more than the one back on the island where the evil militia planned on blowing up any plane in Chinese airspace? I know the producers were trying to ground the show in some realism, but man are these plot points just nuts. I do hope John Barrowman comes back, considering another villain did manage to survive being shot in the eye.
 
Personally I think the next generation consoles won't limit used games as much as suspected right now but instead, they will reward gamers more for buying new and digitally. I imagine Microsoft's plan for the used game markets is to make them worth more to trade toward the purchase of a digital product, whether through Gamestop or MS directly.

But ultimately I think it's important to just listen to Cheapy. Not when he talks about handjobs and taking it in the ass, but when he says, "you just don't know." We're going to find out what we need to know between now and the console release, and I guarantee the PS4/Xbox One will have similar plans regarding always online and used games.

I live in Tucson, Arizona and I got my hopes up when Wombat mentioned that the Wii U demos weren't at any major cities... then I checked the list and the only one in Arizona is our biggest city, Phoenix. I can agree that most of the list is a little WTF (like Ft. Myers, Florida?!) but there are a lot of capital cities in that list.
 
When discussing the move from discs to digital downloads, I don't know why everyone says Microsoft and Sony don't want to piss off their retail partners. Last time I looked, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. all sold plenty of iPads and iPods.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Just like playing it! /rimshot[/QUOTE]

It was one of my favorite (and enjoyable!) games of this generation. Go figure ;).
 
I just started listening to the podcasts, so I checked out the last 5 or so.

CheapyD is such a xbox/microsoft fanboy, I know he has sony system(s) but it's safe to say what he STRONGLY favors.
 
Great show guys.

I prefer XBone and PSbore.

I think I am getting a PS4 first because I don't think it will have the ads on it like the XB1 will have. We'll see.
 
Hopefully Microsoft has been paying attention to some of the recent economic research on the game market. You can find a good summary of a recent paper on the used games market at

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/05/nyu-used-games-study/

and anyone with a science/economics background should have no problem with reading the full paper. The main conclusions are:

- at current prices used game sales actually increase revenue for publishers because buyers value the ability to resell
- there is almost no chance that eliminating sales of used games would increase publisher's revenue (at current prices); the most likely outcome is a decrease of 10% in sales
- the publishers would maximize revenue by reducing new game prices by 1/3 at the same time as they eliminated used game sales (e.g. from $60 to $40). This would increase revenue by 20%.

This seems to fit well with the way that Steam is run. If Microsoft were smart they would be making a deal with Valve to share information on pricing strategies and then designing a system where the initial price is around $40-45, with aggressive price drops and sales online. This would end up being both more profitable and making consumers happier than a $60 initial price and some half-assed system to trade-in games and re-license them.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Just like playing it! /rimshot[/QUOTE]

You should bring up how painful Dark Souls is to play next time you're on the 8-4 podcast.
 
[quote name='jgressley']Regarding hackers, what's to say that they aren't already working on downing Xbox Live now (and PSN again, as well) to prove that an always on system isn't reliable? Why not make the point before the new system is out?[/QUOTE]

That would be awesome.

[quote name='banodyne']When discussing the move from discs to digital downloads, I don't know why everyone says Microsoft and Sony don't want to piss off their retail partners. Last time I looked, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. all sold plenty of iPads and iPods.[/QUOTE]

Three things:
One, iDevices are one of the hottest electronics on the market, they'd be stupid not to carry them.

Two, retailers never carried apps(a new market was created) so they aren't losing game sales by selling the device.

Three, they can store a few dozen in a small glass case. The same can't be said for giant console boxes.

[quote name='Jack_Frost']
CheapyD is such a xbox/microsoft fanboy, I know he has sony system(s) but it's safe to say what he STRONGLY favors.[/QUOTE]

And? These guys aren't any different from you and me. They aren't getting paid to be objective. They have their favorites just like you or I.
 
Thanks for the Dark Souls discussion. I was just about to buy it on the XBL sale, but after hearing how truly painful it can be (like Wombat, i love Skyrim but don't have the patience for such extensive grinding and dying).

Thanks for saving me $5.
 
[quote name='RaiderFan999']Thanks for the Dark Souls discussion. I was just about to buy it on the XBL sale, but after hearing how truly painful it can be (like Wombat, i love Skyrim but don't have the patience for such extensive grinding and dying).

Thanks for saving me $5.[/QUOTE]

Don't listen to them - pick it up. It is not painful! If you take the combat slow and deliberative (instead of rushing in all gung-ho) you can get through it just fine.
 
Great show guys. Dragon's Dogma is a good recommendation. While it's no Skyrim, the combat is a lot of fun. I had a blast with it.
 
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