Backlog Morality Thread

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Another CAG recently made a post stating how saddened/disappointed they were at the thought of CAGs "hoarding" video games they will never play or rarely play when the money spent on those games could have gone to charity and helped people truly in need.

Any thoughts?

This was said in the context of the Steam thread where Steam games can't be traded in, resold, etc., but I'm sure similar issues exist in the physical world.

So what are your thoughts on it?

 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyUf-L0HKSo[/youtube]

I just want to clarify that the people I'm talking about act like they're Golden Girls addicted to QVC. The thing that bothers me slightly, almost not at all, is someone saying "eh, I probably won't even install it" or "It's not like I'm gonna play it."

 
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Mind Link's original post and my response from the other thread...

This burgeoning hoarder culture (horticulture?) has, to me, been irritating over the years because I immerse myself in world news every day and I've become hypersensitive to the poor quality of life of people who were haplessly born into fucked regions. I cringe very slightly when people openly admit that they bought something that they never intend to use; meanwhile Unicef is urgently asking for donations so they can provide Syrians with stuff like water.

Note: I have hundreds of Steam games but everything that I bought and isn't bundle filler is something I plan on playing.
No disrespect intended, and I appreciate your sense of social obligation, I really do. And while reading your post I felt a few pangs of guilt myself, although I try not to knowingly buy games I have no interest in playing; I'm not that much of a collector in that sense.

But since you bring it up. I don't know what kind of work you do and what kind of stresses you may have in your life, what kind of downtime you require. But it seems to me that the hours necessary to play hundreds of games could be put to better use if humanitarian causes are a major concern of yours. I know I regret all the hours I spent on games that are in the mere "time-wasters" category. That's why I've decided that many of the games I now own will not get played after all; they're just not worth that much of my time. I know some of us older members have expressed an appreciation for games that can be completed in a few hours and still provide a satisfying, polished experience. I love gaming, but it's not my career, and there are few works of art in any genre that are worth hundreds of hours of someone's life. I do feel concern for all the potential that's going to waste when twenty and thirty-year-olds are spending so much time raiding, accumulating massive collections of virtual wares that have no bearing on real life, etc. You can't control how others spend their money or time, but if helping others is important to you...well, you can control that. I completely sympathize with your distress at seeing people coast through lives of luxury oblivious to the suffering of others. There are not a lot of people with your kind of awareness. It puts you in a rare place to do something about it.

I suspect I'm preaching to the choir here...you probably work full-time at a non-profit or something, and have a very legitimate need for games as a de-stressor. But when you mentioned hundreds of games that you planned to play, I decided I'd risk it. ;) I'm sure you understand.
 
Another CAG recently made a post stating how saddened/disappointed they were at the thought of CAGs "hoarding" video games they will never play or rarely play when the money spent on those games could have gone to charity and helped people truly in need.

Any thoughts?

This was said in the context of the Steam thread where Steam games can't be traded in, resold, etc., but I'm sure similar issues exist in the physical world.

So what are your thoughts on it?
A lot of the meaningless games I purchase for myself, are in bundles IE Humble Bundles...where 100% goes to charity....win win.

 
Watching that video a very strange sadness for the fox came over me. I'm sure he's very well fed and loved. No bother.

lol. the cat is like WTF.

 
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It's a hobby. The same can be said for nearly every other hobby. If we put more time and effort into more serious efforts, the world would probably be a much better place, but we still need to have our own fun. 

 
I call bullpoop I haven't even been quoted in this thread yet.

On topic:
I actually in some ways did mean my post that way Mind Link, but I this is clearly something that isn't limited to the gamer culture.  Now at the very least it might be a bit different because CAGs frequently spend money on games they will never play - meaning they are almost literally throwing away money.  That said to Tsel's point - it's a hobby (although I hate gaming being called a hobby, no one calls watching TV a hobby).  Hobbies are frequently things in which money is effectively thrown away for a bit of entertainment.    Anddd... I'm rambling.

I guess what I'm saying is, backlogging a game isn't any different than buying a $5 drink from starbucks.  It's a worthless form of expendature that could have clearly been used bettering the human race.

 
I tend to agree with that sentiment.  If you approach everything from that perspective, everything is wasteful.  Why pay $10 for this shirt with a design on it when I could pay $5 for a plain white shirt. 

In the end, we derive some sort of pleasure/satisfaction out of everything we do.  I would think rare is a CAG with an obscene amount of money who is consciously choosing "game I will never play" over "donation to charity."  I think the more common situation is a CAG who either fully intends to play a game, but never gets around to it, or a CAG who gets a genuine sense of satisfaction/fulfillment out of scoring a deal or snagging a game they'd been trying to find for cheap. 

Ideally, we could all find this rush without spending money and donate the money to good causes, but it isn't that easy. 

Plus, what's the point of feeding and watering people for some minimal existence with no video games or steam summer sale?  j/k...

 
I think it's really a much larger question on secular humanism and why our society (or more precisely our species) hasn't really figured out that the most important things in existence is bettering human life and continuing human life (which includes both saving current humans and prevention of the extinction of our species).  It's easy to look at the individual and be like "oh that $5 starbucks/humble bundle/lincoln park t-shirt/anal beads could have gone to save a human life!" and have some sort of temporary moral epiphany, but the issue is much deeper than that and has far less to do with the individual and far more to do with society as a whole.

Something is clearly wrong with our direction when what should be our number one priority as a species (self preservation) is clearly low man on the totem pole unless there is a direct way to profit from it.  We should be devoting vast resources to both saving our current planet and developing interstellar travel (which is the one true way of ensuring our species continues).

But go ahead buy your little video games!  See if I care!

 
There are far too many reasonable people in this thread.  Where are my myopic knee-jerk reactions? I thought this was an internet forum!!!

Seriously though, I agree with what you wrote above, Izod, and would add that let's not forget the issue of quality of life either.  Especially in the States, I think too many people are caught up trying to chase the carrot and forget, or never even realize, how much life has to offer beyond making a buck.  I don't really feel like getting political right now but people in this country are working longer and longer work days for increasingly less payoff, and I feel there isn't enough acknowledgment of it as a serious problem with our societal priorities.

 
I call bullpoop I haven't even been quoted in this thread yet.

On topic:
I actually in some ways did mean my post that way Mind Link, but I this is clearly something that isn't limited to the gamer culture. Now at the very least it might be a bit different because CAGs frequently spend money on games they will never play - meaning they are almost literally throwing away money. That said to Tsel's point - it's a hobby (although I hate gaming being called a hobby, no one calls watching TV a hobby). Hobbies are frequently things in which money is effectively thrown away for a bit of entertainment. Anddd... I'm rambling.

I guess what I'm saying is, backlogging a game isn't any different than buying a $5 drink from starbucks. It's a worthless form of expendature that could have clearly been used bettering the human race.
I agree with you Izod. Being apart of CAG means getting videogames, blu-ray and other items of interests for cheaper than MRSP. If OP is talking about the efficiency of sales and people that actually want items that were on sale but get snatched up to be "collected" or bought to make a profit, really they're SOL. The early bird gets the worm and such when stores don't make their fine print obvious, it'll be taken advantage of (ex. Restrictions on multiple purchases of a certain item).

Not saying being a hoarder is good or anything. What grinds my gears are hoarders. I have been a victim of a store that has been cleaned out of sale items at Bestbuy. Makes me feel empty especially when I really wanted to play that game.

Also efficiency of resources isn't a strong suit for many. backlogging tends to happen for many reasons (mine are not enough time in the day because of work and school & very good sales that I couldn't pass up).

 
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I'm skimming through my posts and it looks like I'm specifically flouting people who buy a game knowing they won't play it. That's it. Valley girls/guys.

Fox: Not feeling the shirt thing. That perspective is the essence of CAG. What's the alternative to that perspective?

Izod: A $5 drink from Starbucks is nourishment. A dozen letters and a space in your Steam list is jack shit. I'm not sure if you mean backlog like "I'll play this later" or if you mean 5 months later "teehee I didn't even know I bought this lol".

It's easy to look at the individual and be like "oh that $5 starbucks/humble bundle/lincoln park t-shirt/anal beads could have gone to save a human life!" and have some sort of temporary moral epiphany, but the issue is much deeper than that and has far less to do with the individual and far more to do with society as a whole.

This topic has strayed very, very far from where it began. Those things have a purpose. This discussion was originally about people who buy something they clearly know they are not going to use. Ever. And they chirp about it like it's cute. What can you do with a couple of words among a long list of words in your Steam client? Starbucks is food. Humble is charity at the very least. The Linkin Park T-shirt could be used as an oil rag or for picking up shit.

Anal Beads.

 
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I think it's really a much larger question on secular humanism and why our society (or more precisely our species) hasn't really figured out that the most important things in existence is bettering human life and continuing human life (which includes both saving current humans and prevention of the extinction of our species). It's easy to look at the individual and be like "oh that $5 starbucks/humble bundle/lincoln park t-shirt/anal beads could have gone to save a human life!" and have some sort of temporary moral epiphany, but the issue is much deeper than that and has far less to do with the individual and far more to do with society as a whole.

Something is clearly wrong with our direction when what should be our number one priority as a species (self preservation) is clearly low man on the totem pole unless there is a direct way to profit from it. We should be devoting vast resources to both saving our current planet and developing interstellar travel (which is the one true way of ensuring our species continues).

But go ahead buy your little video games! See if I care!
Human beings are naturally selfish. External values > altruistic values. I like to watch people in our society and manners are non-existent majority of the time (I work retail). I would always see, especially during the holidays, people not give a dime to salvation army stands and buy some huge big ticket item that will lose it's value in less than a year. Pretty sad.

I like your approach on our resources (maybe classified info.). Could be in the works!

 
Well, the thing about the t-shirt example is that someone might get something significant out of the more expensive shirt.  A sense of identity, self esteem, a sense of belonging, etc.  It may cost money in our society, but even in society with no money they still valued things like body decorations, clothing, etc. 

The same thing could be said about the person who buys a game with no intent to play it.  They might get some tangible benefit out of it being in their collection.  I mean, plenty of CAGs are collectors who will spend 100 plus on a game with no intent to ever unwrap or play it and just to display it or even store it, but get the satisfaction out of owning it. 

This isn't just funny money we're talking about either, most of us here work for our money, so we dedicate hours of our lives to accumulating money.  We need it to meet minimum standards of living, is it that wrong to use it on "selfish" reasons?  If say, someone in a society with no money dedicates hours of their lives to self gratification (bird watching?) instead of using those hours for something towards the general good of the community are they equally wasteful? 

 
Well, the thing about the t-shirt example is that someone might get something significant out of the more expensive shirt. A sense of identity, self esteem, a sense of belonging, etc. It may cost money in our society, but even in society with no money they still valued things like body decorations, clothing, etc.

The same thing could be said about the person who buys a game with no intent to play it. They might get some tangible benefit out of it being in their collection. I mean, plenty of CAGs are collectors who will spend 100 plus on a game with no intent to ever unwrap or play it and just to display it or even store it, but get the satisfaction out of owning it.

This isn't just funny money we're talking about either, most of us here work for our money, so we dedicate hours of our lives to accumulating money. We need it to meet minimum standards of living, is it that wrong to use it on "selfish" reasons? If say, someone in a society with no money dedicates hours of their lives to self gratification (bird watching?) instead of using those hours for something towards the general good of the community are they equally wasteful?
Ah, well now we really get to the crux of the matter. It could be argued that those hours are indeed wasteful. On some kind of abstract objective scale, how much is that "sense of satisfaction" really worth? Well, let's take me for example. I definitely take a silly sort of pride in my Steam collection of games, 90% at least of which I have spent between 20 and 0 minutes playing. I like to sort them into their different categories by genre and look at the pretty icons and sometimes boot up Big Picture mode just to scroll through them. But really, this sort of satisfaction is very superficial. We make fun of the foil Steam card collectors and "e-peen" internet types all the time on this site. We know that it's a waste of time and resources. I think a lot of hobbies people invest their time and energy into are compensating for other aspects of their lives they find themselves unable to control, or fulfilling a desire to remake the world as they see fit. That is the whole psychological motivation behind character creation and stat/attribute management in games, as I see it. But it became pretty clear to me after a while that the 400 hours I put into King's Bounty, which is a game I still love, while I was depressed, would have been much better served furthering my career, where I actually have the potentially to help other people beside myself.

 
Even if I buy a game I may never open or play, I still have it there, and it's available if I have a change of heart and decide to finally play that sucker, or I could trade off the game to another cag who decides THEY want to game, and in return get a game I WILL play. Or in many case's end up trading the game in or flipping it and ending up with more credit from the game than my original investment. But regardless, point out where every time I buy a game I don't play a person in need get's slapped? It really doesn't hurt anyone when one of us buy's a game that is banished to our backlog.

 
A little bit of money from everybody can and does pay for vaccines, food, water, clothes and blankets for warmth -- everything needed to prevent millions of people from dying. In this case it's Syria and it's not about comfort right now, it's about subsistence. 

Money doesn't need as many provisions as birdmen.

A little bit of legwork (not their strength doe) from all the birdmen isn't going to take care of millions of displaced bird people. They would expend their entire budget just buying seeds; they don't like the store brand.

So yeah, I think that's pretty cut and dry. A birdman divebombing every colored person that saunters under its lamppost in its free time is not more valuable than money.

I just cherry picked the last paragraph because I haven't slept in like 40+

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lC4FnfNKwUo

being a horrible person is pivotal to being human just embrace it.

i love my big backlog

 
But why would I want to help the evil betrayers known as people when I can surround yourself with the holy high quality digital artifices of perfection? There are entire continents of these beings which I did not create, nor should I be responsible for.

To suggest that I should take responsibly beyond my means and for questionable returns (which I cannot directly observe) is 100% extra-virgin olive oil madness. It is my right to do "good" according to my own judgement and free will, not according to what others dictate.

 
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I think it's really a much larger question on secular humanism and why our society (or more precisely our species) hasn't really figured out that the most important things in existence is bettering human life and continuing human life (which includes both saving current humans and prevention of the extinction of our species). It's easy to look at the individual and be like "oh that $5 starbucks/humble bundle/lincoln park t-shirt/anal beads could have gone to save a human life!" and have some sort of temporary moral epiphany, but the issue is much deeper than that and has far less to do with the individual and far more to do with society as a whole.

Something is clearly wrong with our direction when what should be our number one priority as a species (self preservation) is clearly low man on the totem pole unless there is a direct way to profit from it. We should be devoting vast resources to both saving our current planet and developing interstellar travel (which is the one true way of ensuring our species continues).

But go ahead buy your little video games! See if I care!
Human beings are naturally selfish. External values > altruistic values. I like to watch people in our society and manners are non-existent majority of the time (I work retail). I would always see, especially during the holidays, people not give a dime to salvation army stands and buy some huge big ticket item that will lose it's value in less than a year. Pretty sad.

I like your approach on our resources (maybe classified info.). Could be in the works!

Well the salvation army thinks homosexuals should be put to death so yeah fuck them. Sorry off topic but really fuck them.

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/6/10/salvation-army-says-gays-need-to-be-put-to-death

 
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There's a lot of funny mental gymnastics being played in this thread.

At the end of it all, what is the actual difference between someone who buys 100 video games with the intention to play them all but never gets around to it, and someone who is like "lulz time to buy 100 games because I can, fuck playing them"? There is no discernable difference once you get past intent because at the end of the day, the games are ultimately unplayed in both situations, meaning it's a "waste" of money in both situations.

But that completely ignores the fact that "collecting" is a hobby in and of itself, just like playing video games is a hobby. Is it a "worthwhile" hobby? That's absolutely 1000% subjective and there is no right or wrong answer, even when trying to boil it down to some kind of utility argument.

Furthermore, if you want to suggest that it's a waste of money to buy all of the games and not play them because that money could go to help mankind instead, at a certain point, playing all 100 of those video games passes a point of something like "it helps me relax" and just becomes a waste of time - time you could be putting toward helping mankind directly or earning money to then donate to help mankind. I of course don't subscribe to that train of thought, but that's exactly where that slippery slope takes you.

The common video game is a luxery and a choice. They are not a necessity. No one NEEDS to play a video game. Whatever enjoyment or relaxation from video games could be derived from any number of other activities, some of which could be beneficial to the world at large.

But I'm not going to sit here and get annoyed or angry or sick to my stomach if people want to hoard video games or anything else for that matter. It's their life, their money, their choice, and as long as it is not directly hurting someone (i.e. buying video games instead of food for your kids), it's none of my concern. Most of these conerns are best saved for your freshman intro to philosophy course.

Could we just get more videos of foxes in here instead?

 
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There's a lot of funny mental gymnastics being played in this thread.

At the end of it all, what is the actual difference between someone who buys 100 video games with the intention to play them all but never gets around to it, and someone who is like "lulz time to buy 100 games because I can, fuck playing them"? There is no discernable difference once you get past intent because at the end of the day, the games are ultimately unplayed in both situations, meaning it's a "waste" of money in both situations.
There's a lot of scissoring of the apparatus in this thread not unlike newlywed lesbians. The apparatus is you and your own sense of morality.

I still haven't said anything about what constitutes right and wrong. Not once. I never suggested that someone should act a certain way. Read this thread again and you'll find that this is about people I find obnoxious. When I've challenged someone it's because I question their logic, not values. Like this:

There is no discernible difference beyond intent? Is it safe to say that, putting intent aside, rape and consensual sex are similar because the outcome is the same? How about the difference between molesting a toddler when you're giving him a bath, and giving him a bath without molesting the toddler? Intent aside, you had your hands on a naked child in both situations but, hey, all you did was give the kid a bath! I think we have the next Cochran here:

If the intention is in question just give me your pension! I'll have it thrown out!

This discussion was spawned and nurtured by people who took one comment and aggrandized it to portray me as Mother Brain Theresa.* You've been arguing with yourselves about scenarios that I never offered for discussion. A few of you have also wandered into philosophical territory that exceeds your interpretive ability and, as you can review in your posts, that's not conducive to concise, relevant and focused ideas.

* Post 19 may seem this way but it's simply a question that Mr. Fox posed about the value of a couple dollars versus the value of a couple hours of labor and that is very much aside from anything that I've typed in any post. There are also missing posts of mine that weren't transferred to this thread that would give further evidence.

 
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There's a lot of funny mental gymnastics being played in this thread.

At the end of it all, what is the actual difference between someone who buys 100 video games with the intention to play them all but never gets around to it, and someone who is like "lulz time to buy 100 games because I can, fuck playing them"? There is no discernable difference once you get past intent because at the end of the day, the games are ultimately unplayed in both situations, meaning it's a "waste" of money in both situations.
There's a lot of scissoring of the apparatus in this thread not unlike newlywed lesbians. The apparatus is you and your own sense of morality.

I still haven't said anything about what constitutes right and wrong. Not once. I never suggested that someone should act a certain way. Read this thread again and you'll find that this is about people I find obnoxious. When I've challenged someone it's because I question their logic, not values. Like this:

There is no discernible difference beyond intent? Is it safe to say that, putting intent aside, rape and consensual sex are similar because the outcome is the same? How about the difference between molesting a toddler when you're giving him a bath, and giving him a bath without molesting the toddler? Intent aside, you had your hands on a naked child in both situations but, hey, all you did was give the kid a bath! I think we have the next Cochran here:

If the intention is in question just give me your pension! I'll have it thrown out!

This discussion was spawned and nurtured by people who took one comment and aggrandized it to portray me as Mother Brain Theresa.* You've been arguing with yourselves about scenarios that I never offered for discussion. A few of you have also wandered into philosophical territory that exceeds your interpretive ability and, as you can review in your posts, that's not conducive to concise, relevant and focused ideas.

* Post 19 may seem this way but it's simply a question that Mr. Fox posed about the value of a couple dollars versus the value of a couple hours of labor and that is very much aside from anything that I've typed in any post. There are also missing posts of mine that weren't transferred to this thread that would give further evidence.
Try again. Learn what sex and rape are. Learn what bathing and molestation are. There's a marked difference. It's actually sad you couldn't figure that on your own, and pathetic you think that's a valid counterpoint.

Since you couldn't grasp it on your own: The end result between consentual sex and rape isn't the same. It's not "had sex." In one case, it has been consented to by both parties, and the parties are either pleased or not pleased at the result of their trying to work together to perform coitus. The end result of rape is a person using undue power or influence to physically force the act of sex upon another without their permission, filling that person with fear and terror and violating both their body and their mind. The end result is not the same between the two, even if you just examine the physical act itself. It's absolutely unbelieveable you think that was an okay example to try and make. The same applies to molesting a child vs. bathing a child, because of the measurable affects the molestation can have versus the technical act of cleaning. It couldn't be more different than the intent issue with acquiring a backlog of video games. At the end of the video game scenarios, both sets of games are sitting there unplayed with money "wasted," and the psyche of the buyer relatively unaffected. At the end of sex vs. rape and bathing vs. molestation, the actors are most certainly have not had equivalent acts performed nor are they in equivalent positions.

And to top it off, you're a pretentious little fuck. Are you not getting enough attention from your Professor in Phil 101?

 
Try again. Learn what sex and rape are. Learn what bathing and molestation are. There's a marked difference. It's actually sad you couldn't figure that on your own, and pathetic you think that's a valid counterpoint.

Since you couldn't grasp it on your own: The end result between consentual sex and rape isn't the same. It's not "had sex." In one case, it has been consented to by both parties, and the parties are either pleased or not pleased at the result of their trying to work together to perform coitus. The end result of rape is a person using undue power or influence to physically force the act of sex upon another without their permission, filling that person with fear and terror and violating both their body and their mind. The end result is not the same between the two, even if you just examine the physical act itself. It's absolutely unbelieveable you think that was an okay example to try and make. The same applies to molesting a child vs. bathing a child, because of the measurable affects the molestation can have versus the technical act of cleaning. It couldn't be more different than the intent issue with acquiring a backlog of video games. At the end of the video game scenarios, both sets of games are sitting there unplayed with money "wasted," and the psyche of the buyer relatively unaffected. At the end of sex vs. rape and bathing vs. molestation, the actors are most certainly have not had equivalent acts performed nor are they in equivalent positions.

And to top it off, you're a pretentious little fuck. Are you not getting enough attention from your Professor in Phil 101?
You seem very mad right now. On the internet.

Alright, cliches and cop-outs everywhere in your post so I hope you appreciate that I actually read it.

Try again (where have I heard that... everywhere I think), learn the difference between buying things you plan to use and things that you don't. There's a marked difference, as you said. Remember now that none of my posts are moral lessons -- there was some miscommunication by some of the original participants and others piggybacked from there.

You can't disregard the concept of intent at your discretion in situations like this. At least tell me when you've decided that it applies or it doesn't.

And did you copy and paste the definition of rape and alter it slightly so it's harder to Google? Are you baiting me into a time-wasting tangent in an attempt to distract me from the the way you're skirting anything meaningful and relevant? Seems that way.

There is no discernible difference once you get past intent because at the end of the day (sound familiar?) someone is ultimately fucked, meaning it's a "waste" of seminal fluids (could have gone to a sperm bank). I took your exact self-applicable-only framework and plugged in a few words using your own logic and it came out tighter than the spacing in that wall of text. The reason I introduced that hyperbole was to make it clearer to you that the physical outcome you presented had swerved into irrelevance. It hit a tree, I think. You've been trying to reroute the discussion and that's the point of this little paragraph.

You're removing intent from a thread about intent and you're suggesting that I'm "suggesting" certain ideas. You could do this in the mirror.

Nothing in your post is backing up your previous post. You typed up an entire reply about the shocking crassness of what I typed, as a response to a reply that countered your nonsense.

Please be consistent and pertinent. Thank you.

 
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Try again. Learn what sex and rape are. Learn what bathing and molestation are. There's a marked difference. It's actually sad you couldn't figure that on your own, and pathetic you think that's a valid counterpoint.

Since you couldn't grasp it on your own: The end result between consentual sex and rape isn't the same. It's not "had sex." In one case, it has been consented to by both parties, and the parties are either pleased or not pleased at the result of their trying to work together to perform coitus. The end result of rape is a person using undue power or influence to physically force the act of sex upon another without their permission, filling that person with fear and terror and violating both their body and their mind. The end result is not the same between the two, even if you just examine the physical act itself. It's absolutely unbelieveable you think that was an okay example to try and make. The same applies to molesting a child vs. bathing a child, because of the measurable affects the molestation can have versus the technical act of cleaning. It couldn't be more different than the intent issue with acquiring a backlog of video games. At the end of the video game scenarios, both sets of games are sitting there unplayed with money "wasted," and the psyche of the buyer relatively unaffected. At the end of sex vs. rape and bathing vs. molestation, the actors are most certainly have not had equivalent acts performed nor are they in equivalent positions.

And to top it off, you're a pretentious little fuck. Are you not getting enough attention from your Professor in Phil 101?
You seem very mad right now. On the internet.

Alright, cliches and cop-outs everywhere in your post so I hope you appreciate that I actually read it.

Try again (where have I heard that... everywhere I think), learn the difference between buying things you plan to use and things that you don't. There's a marked difference, as you said. Remember now that none of my posts are moral lessons -- there was some miscommunication by some of the original participants and others piggybacked from there.

You can't disregard the concept of intent at your discretion in situations like this. At least tell me when you've decided that it applies or it doesn't.

And did you copy and paste the definition of rape and alter it slightly so it's harder to Google? Are you baiting me into a time-wasting tangent in an attempt to distract me from the the way you're skirting anything meaningful and relevant? Seems that way.

There is no discernible difference once you get past intent because at the end of the day (sound familiar?) someone is ultimately fucked, meaning it's a "waste" of seminal fluids (could have gone to a sperm bank). I took your exact self-applicable-only framework and plugged in a few words using your own logic and it came out tighter than the spacing in that wall of text. The reason I introduced that hyperbole was to make it clearer to you that the physical outcome you presented had swerved into irrelevance. It hit a tree, I think. You've been trying to reroute the discussion and that's the point of this little paragraph.

You're removing intent from a thread about intent and you're suggesting that I'm "suggesting" certain ideas. You could do this in the mirror.

Nothing in your post is backing up your previous post. You typed up an entire reply about the shocking crassness of what I typed, as a response to a reply that countered your nonsense.

Please be consistent and pertinent. Thank you.
It's strange you think you have the ability to infer anger from where there is none. More of your supercilious thinking. Or is this you just applying a diversion, appealing to emotion rather than logic to get away from addressing anything for real? You see how that works? We could do this all day. You accuse me of certain tactics that you yourself have done this entire thread. It's borderline absurd. Does your philosophy professor give you high marks for that line of reasoning on your exams?

What is your purpose in caring about what people spend their money on and what their backlogs consist of if this isn't a moral or ethical discussion? How do you complain about others spending money on video games they don't intend on playing instead of UNICEF without bringing some kind of moral or ethical judgment into the discussion? And regardless of your think your original topic was, the very topic here is "morality," so if your beast has grown beyond what you intended it to be, either get with the program or step aside if it's not the discussion you intended to have. Because this thread is supposed to be some kind of moral or ethical discussion even if you wish it weren't.

You still fail to grasp what either sex or rape is, then you try to pin it on me playing avoidance tactics as your reason for understanding neither. Neither is necessarily an act to deposit semen, so that's already a terrible defense of your extreme attempt at an analogy. (Which, by the way, an appeal to extremes is also highly illogical.) You can have sex and rape without ejactulation - or is that too complex for you to grasp as well? Maybe you'll be able to find that on Google. Not to mention with your molestation vs. cleaning example, which you've conviently not defended, the acts aren't even the same regardless of intent. You've also chosen examples where intent is dependant on two actors, whereas in the video game example the intent is only with one actor on inanimate objects. It's not even the same ballpark.

For the sake of argument - put intent back into the video game example. What is the statement, critic, or commentary you're trying to make on the person who buys not to play? Because it's some kind of moralistic or ethical judgment at the end of the day - they threw away their money that could have gone to a higher utility, so they've done something bad or wrong. But the inaction of the person who intended to play the games leads to the same result. Why are they not to be judged similarly? It's like murder vs. negligant manslaughter. Someone is dead, both are bad, but one person is just slightly less bad than the other.

And I think ultimately that's what you're failing to see - when you go down the utilitarianism, you are aiming for maximum utility. You think a higher utility for money would be giving it to UNICEF because your heart is bleeding for the poor across the world. That's cetainly true for person buying games intending not to play them, but it is also true for the person who ends up not playing their games despite the best intentions. And as I outlined before, which you apparently had no rebuttal to since you somehow think you can have this discussion without morals or ethics, is that the common video game is a completely extravagent pleasure where all of that money could be put toward a higher utility, such as UNICEF. You try to defeat a similar argument earlier by saying, for some reason, that at least the Linkin Park t-shirt has a purpose as it could be used as a rag (which would be a lower utility unless the shirt can no longer be worn as a shirt - a very bizzare counterpoint to make in the first place). Even the other components of utilitarianism of happiness and reducing suffering fail to justify any video game purchases either at all, or most certainly after a point in time where enough is enough. Humans found happiness, relaxation, excitement, enjoyment and meaning before the common video game, and thus could continue to do so while putting the money for those games to the higher utility of ending suffering around the world, which in turn would likely make the world a better place, potentially resulting in even greater happiness for all than video games would have ever brought.

And I think at the end of the day, your outlook is a masturbatory attempt to keep yourself at the pretentious highground you see yourself sitting upon while judging those who are not similarly situated. If your heart bleeds so much for those UNICEF seeks to help and the fact that humanity would rather engage in materialism than help each other out, then stop buying video games and donate even more of that money so more people can be saved by your generosity. Otherwise, stop trying to place yourself on some kind of pedestal because you intend to play every non-filler game in your Steam library. And hell, whether you do play every game in your Steam library or you don't, the effect on humanity is exactly the same when if could have been slightly different had that money gone to a higher utility that will be unmatched by whatever utility you think exists for yourself by playing 100 video games. Or you could admit that the world is what it is, many acts like sitting on your ass paying for and playing video games are selfish and not aiming for the highest utility, and stop judging and concerning yourself with others for whatever collecting or playing hobbies they may have.

 
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kodave said:
It's strange you think you have the ability to infer anger from where there is none. More of your supercilious thinking. Or is this you just applying a diversion, appealing to emotion rather than logic to get away from addressing anything for real? You see how that works? We could do this all day. You accuse me of certain tactics that you yourself have done this entire thread. It's borderline absurd. Does your philosophy professor give you high marks for that line of reasoning on your exams?

What is your purpose in caring about what people spend their money on and what their backlogs consist of if this isn't a moral or ethical discussion? How do you complain about others spending money on video games they don't intend on playing instead of UNICEF without bringing some kind of moral or ethical judgment into the discussion? And regardless of your think your original topic was, the very topic here is "morality," so if your beast has grown beyond what you intended it to be, either get with the program or step aside if it's not the discussion you intended to have. Because this thread is supposed to be some kind of moral or ethical discussion even if you wish it weren't.

You still fail to grasp what either sex or rape is, then you try to pin it on me playing avoidance tactics as your reason for understanding neither. Neither is necessarily an act to deposit semen, so that's already a terrible defense of your extreme attempt at an analogy. (Which, by the way, an appeal to extremes is also highly illogical.) You can have sex and rape without ejactulation - or is that too complex for you to grasp as well? Maybe you'll be able to find that on Google. Not to mention with your molestation vs. cleaning example, which you've conviently not defended, the acts aren't even the same regardless of intent. You've also chosen examples where intent is dependant on two actors, whereas in the video game example the intent is only with one actor on inanimate objects. It's not even the same ballpark.

For the sake of argument - put intent back into the video game example. What is the statement, critic, or commentary you're trying to make on the person who buys not to play? Because it's some kind of moralistic or ethical judgment at the end of the day - they threw away their money that could have gone to a higher utility, so they've done something bad or wrong. But the inaction of the person who intended to play the games leads to the same result. Why are they not to be judged similarly? It's like murder vs. negligant manslaughter. Someone is dead, both are bad, but one person is just slightly less bad than the other.

And I think ultimately that's what you're failing to see - when you go down the utilitarianism, you are aiming for maximum utility. You think a higher utility for money would be giving it to UNICEF because your heart is bleeding for the poor across the world. That's cetainly true for person buying games intending not to play them, but it is also true for the person who ends up not playing their games despite the best intentions. And as I outlined before, which you apparently had no rebuttal to since you somehow think you can have this discussion without morals or ethics, is that the common video game is a completely extravagent pleasure where all of that money could be put toward a higher utility, such as UNICEF. You try to defeat a similar argument earlier by saying, for some reason, that at least the Linkin Park t-shirt has a purpose as it could be used as a rag (which would be a lower utility unless the shirt can no longer be worn as a shirt - a very bizzare counterpoint to make in the first place). Even the other components of utilitarianism of happiness and reducing suffering fail to justify any video game purchases either at all, or most certainly after a point in time where enough is enough. Humans found happiness, relaxation, excitement, enjoyment and meaning before the common video game, and thus could continue to do so while putting the money for those games to the higher utility of ending suffering around the world, which in turn would likely make the world a better place, potentially resulting in even greater happiness for all than video games would have ever brought.

And I think at the end of the day, your outlook is a masturbatory attempt to keep yourself at the pretentious highground you see yourself sitting upon while judging those who are not similarly situated. If your heart bleeds so much for those UNICEF seeks to help and the fact that humanity would rather engage in materialism than help each other out, then stop buying video games and donate even more of that money so more people can be saved by your generosity. Otherwise, stop trying to place yourself on some kind of pedestal because you intend to play every non-filler game in your Steam library. And hell, whether you do play every game in your Steam library or you don't, the effect on humanity is exactly the same when if could have been slightly different had that money gone to a higher utility that will be unmatched by whatever utility you think exists for yourself by playing 100 video games. Or you could admit that the world is what it is, many acts like sitting on your ass paying for and playing video games are selfish and not aiming for the highest utility, and stop judging and concerning yourself with others for whatever collecting or playing hobbies they may have.

tumblr_m5w9qpUKhq1r5jtugo1_400.gif



What in the fanciful figment fuuck is this?

Can I contract you to write my biography? I think you have most of it done.




I'm gonna need to read that again later but my initial analysis: About 35% is what you've said already. You're not a supporter of the cogent, reader-friendly prose movement. You insist on steering whatever you call what this thread has become into a lesson of morality. If you READ my posts like I've asked you to you'd see that I'm not recommending virtuous behavior and I'm not judging anybody in that way and I'm not opining about what is good and bad.

You seem to think I'm the personification of virtue. The inane verbiage directed at me is something about which I don't give any fucks.


AGAIN, post #19 is about the value of money versus the value of avian labor.


MIND LINK said:
This discussion was originally about people who buy something they clearly know they are not going to use. Ever. And they chirp about it like it's cute.
This is in post #14.

These people, who I've dissed unfairly, are annoying to me; they seem to be oblivious to the world and they like to talk like my granny and her swinger friends.


You try to defeat a similar argument earlier by saying, for some reason, that at least the Linkin Park t-shirt has a purpose as it could be used as a rag (which would be a lower utility unless the shirt can no longer be worn as a shirt - a very bizzare counterpoint to make in the first place).
Post #14.

Are you that humorless? Wow. And that might be evidence that you may have been a little confused while reading my posts.
 
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This thread has become ego masturbation. Nothing more. Nothing less.

So of course I'll jump in. No matter what you do with your time and money, you could always do more for fellow mankind. Where you draw the line is subjective and most people conveniently draw the law on the other side so that they can comfortably look down their noses at people different from them. Keep in mind I mentioned no one's user name here. But if helping mankind is the ultimate goal we must all aspire to, how in the holy fuck does condescending arguments on the Internet achieve that?
 
This thread has become ego masturbation. Nothing more. Nothing less.

So of course I'll jump in. No matter what you do with your time and money, you could always do more for fellow mankind. Where you draw the line is subjective and most people conveniently draw the law on the other side so that they can comfortably look down their noses at people different from them. Keep in mind I mentioned no one's user name here. But if helping mankind is the ultimate goal we must all aspire to, how in the holy fuck does condescending arguments on the Internet achieve that?
This has already been posted by everyone else. Read the thread if you're gonna jab at someone like that.
 
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