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CAGcast #333: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish, Phil

cagcast cheapyd wombat shipwreck podcast

#61 bickle   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   816 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:37 AM

So how long before Phil Fish returns to the scene? My guess GDC next year where he will be showing Fez 2 behind close doors.

 

If he has half a brain he'll partner with someone else and have him/her be the public face, and he can stay behind the scenes.



#62 shipwreck   CAG Reviews Editor Super Moderators   7576 Posts   Joined 15.8 Years Ago  

Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:55 AM

"complaining about sexism in video games is like complaining about sexism in Playboy"

Maybe Shipwreck would like to expound on this brilliant analogy. Personally I don't feel threatened by somebody criticizing my favorite hobby when the criticisms are valid.


That's taking what I said out of context. I was talking about Saints Row IV and Dragon's Crown, not videogames as a whole.

#63 detectiveconan16   Delicious! CAGiversary!   7128 Posts   Joined 12.4 Years Ago  

detectiveconan16

Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:00 AM

Following the Phil Fish/Beer thing to the best of my attention span, it looks like both sides are total pricks.  Will either side be back doing something with video games soon? Sure.

 

The Green Arrow in the tv show is like 28 years old, because for some reason the CW has an aversion to having main characters over the age of 30, despite most of the male actors being over 30.  I laughed when the main character of Nikita said she was 27 in the first episode, even though Maggie Q was like 30 years old at the time. They're gonna have a younger Flash, since for some reason, having a older male role model is not in vogue.

 

Sam Daly voiced Superman in Flashpoint, and this was addressed in the Daly Show. Well, they didn't recast Lois Lane.



#64 hufferstl   Get your symbols kid CAGiversary!   2547 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

Wombat is really getting on my nerves lately. Cheapy, please send Wombat and his family on a Disney Vacation so that we can have a Cheapy/Shipwreck CAGCast.  



#65 hunterny77   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   129 Posts   Joined 10.8 Years Ago  

hunterny77

Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

So how long before Phil Fish returns to the scene? My guess GDC next year where he will be showing Fez 2 behind close doors.
.



#66 hunterny77   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   129 Posts   Joined 10.8 Years Ago  

hunterny77

Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

When I think of Phil Fish actions, I think of the adage ...Kettle calling the pot black!

Fish is a wannabe Internet bully that is too psychologically weak to handle retaliation back. He is just a troll and mostly likely trolling his fans with "canceling" Fez 2.

He is manipulator. This may be a farce; have you also seen his twitter pic it's Andy Kaufman. Read between the lines.
That game is mostly likely going to be released and maybe even on schedule. I can see the headlines now. Fez 2: the Return of Fish releasing March 15, 2015.

Phil suffers from a fish disease call rot; in his case he has rot of the mouth.



#67 Hast   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   26 Posts   Joined 12.0 Years Ago  

Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:36 PM

That's taking what I said out of context. I was talking about Saints Row IV and Dragon's Crown, not videogames as a whole.

 

I can see your point. But at the same time I do believe there is an immaturity prevalent in the video game business. It seems like games like Dragon's Crown have been designed the way they are almost by mistake. In that they are not really understanding what message they are portraying with the art they have chosen. It's mostly the work of an artist thinking "bigger breast == better".

 

If you contrast this with "magazines for men" those magazines are extremely aware of the message they portray. So everything else in those magazines are targeted at their demographic.

 

There doesn't really seem to be anything else in Dragon's Crown that is specifically targeting "men" and in that sense it seems like a bad design choice. Because you are going to actively drive people away from your game. And in some cases make people avoid your products in the future. I can't be the only one that thinks the game looks kind of cool but will not pick it up because it's the kind of game that I can't play in nice company.

 

In contrast I think SR4 does a better job at targeting their demographic. Because everything in those games tends to be over the top and embracing stupidity and the juvenile. If the somewhat gratuitous nature of SR4 turns you away you would probably not like the game anyways.



#68 WinkyEmoticon  

WinkyEmoticon

Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:27 PM

So maybe you can talk about that anyways shipwreck.  Are you saying that Dragons Crown, like Playboy, is made for men and therefore should be held to a different standard of decency then other games?



#69 sohcahtoa guy   Boop beep. CAGiversary!   329 Posts   Joined 11.9 Years Ago  

sohcahtoa guy

Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:15 AM

So how long before Phil Fish returns to the scene? My guess GDC next year where he will be showing Fez 2 behind close doors.

 

Phil Fish should not return and pull a full Sarah Palin.  This means, start doing the thing you detest: get into (games) journalism.

 

See the logic here?  She "quit" politics and joined Fox to battle the "Lamestream" media.  Phil could also "quit" and get a job writing about the gaming scene to get massive hits.  Trust me, he will get a HUGE following (with those who either love or loathe him) just to see what he says next.  Phil gets paid well and can actually come out of quitting-ness (like Sarah) when it suits him.  All the while, he keeps his face in the game which is better than just disappearing in a few weeks.

 

Just you wait.  There will be a new column called FISH TALES from Phil on the Escapist site to premiere right after Zero Punctuation on Wednesdays.  I'd stick around to see it.



#70 codenamelenny   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   200 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

codenamelenny

Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:27 AM

Fun fact: if you google hate masterbation the first link that comes up is "Masterbation - Does God hate me?" from yahoo answers. That begs the question does god hate-masterbate because we masterbate? These are the deep question you guys should be answering.



#71 just-joe   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   134 Posts   Joined 9.5 Years Ago  

just-joe

Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:41 AM

That's taking what I said out of context. I was talking about Saints Row IV and Dragon's Crown, not videogames as a whole.

 

While I don't think of using playboy in your argument works, I do agree with you that there a lot more worse things that degrading if not physically harmful to woman. The developers of Dragon's Crown knew what to expect, just like I'm sure the people at Polygon knew what to expect when they posted their review. I think people just need to stop looking too much into thing for messages that just aren't there.



#72 spid   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   128 Posts   Joined 14.4 Years Ago  

Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:35 PM

When Shipwreck said the Wii U was a nice little machine it reminded me of the Charlie Brown Xmas Special when they are talking about the little tree.  I agree with Wombat there some indie games that are really good. I think the term "a lot" is an exgeration. 

 

I was checking the thread post right as Cheapy was making the "guarantee"  which made the Denzel video and Cheapy statement very funny. 



#73 guardian_owl   Keeper of the CAG Shrine CAGiversary!   11157 Posts   Joined 15.2 Years Ago  

guardian_owl

Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

Re: Dragon's Crown discussion

So, let's say a new Mario game came out, the content is similar to previous titles, except whenever Mario stomps on a Goomba it explodes into a graphic shower of blood, internal organs, bones, etc.

 

Wouldn't a reviewer be justified if they scored down the game due to the small inclusion of intense violence since it detracts from the family friendly nature of the rest of the game even if the rest of the gameplay was technically sound?



#74 skubish   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   915 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:50 PM

Great show guys.

 

But c'mon some indie quits gaming and the internet is blowing up over it?

 

I can't believe Shipwreck recommends PCs for gaming.  This is CHEAPassgamer right?

A PC would have to last 10 years to even out the cost of a $400 console. 



#75 shipwreck   CAG Reviews Editor Super Moderators   7576 Posts   Joined 15.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:03 PM

Re: Dragon's Crown discussion

So, let's say a new Mario game came out, the content is similar to previous titles, except whenever Mario stomps on a Goomba it explodes into a graphic shower of blood, internal organs, bones, etc.

 

Wouldn't a reviewer be justified if they scored down the game due to the small inclusion of intense violence since it detracts from the family friendly nature of the rest of the game even if the rest of the gameplay was technically sound?

 

I don't understand this analogy. You've seen characters from previous games by Vanillaware right? Dragon's Crown is not far off from the art found in the likes of say Muramasa: 2475854-9932078425-yande.jpg

or Odin Sphere:

2475855-5702149242-19788.jpg

Or the myriad of other examples in these games that are laden with sexual innuendo.



#76 hufferstl   Get your symbols kid CAGiversary!   2547 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:01 PM

Judging all video games by these few examples is like saying that music is sexist and misogynistic because you heard a 2 Live Crew song.



#77 shipwreck   CAG Reviews Editor Super Moderators   7576 Posts   Joined 15.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

Judging all video games by these few examples is like saying that music is sexist and misogynistic because you heard a 2 Live Crew song.


And no one is doing that.

#78 hufferstl   Get your symbols kid CAGiversary!   2547 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:52 AM

Ship - I was trying to reiterate what (I thought) you were saying in the CAGCast.   If mainstream media is using these two games as examples of all games, they are using outliers as examples.



#79 shipwreck   CAG Reviews Editor Super Moderators   7576 Posts   Joined 15.8 Years Ago  

Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:56 AM

Ship - I was trying to reiterate what (I thought) you were saying in the CAGCast. If mainstream media is using these two games as examples of all games, they are using outliers as examples.


Gotcha. The Internet is confusing.

#80 4nik8tor   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   206 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

4nik8tor

Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:01 AM

shipwreck.. your point was made. this guy is purposely being a douche



#81 pureflux   CAG Newbie CAGiversary!   37 Posts   Joined 6.3 Years Ago  

pureflux

Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

Hey Guys,

 

In reference to the Dragon Crown game and the animation of the protagonist, women in video games, in general, are often portrayed as over sexualized, oversized, disportional breasted girls that usually need a man for fulfillment or are hapless. The problem is the majority of developers and male gamers reflect their attitude on women and are reflected on games. This misogynistic, distorted view of women will only be change when more female developers create games that address the issue and more female gamers demand games that are more realistic and positive view of women.

 

I am not saying game developers should stop producing mature-rated titles, but when a person goes to a strip club, he/she knows naked bodies will be shown. Games needed to reflect that to inform gamers if they wish to play over sexualized games, it’s for entertainment only, not the actual portrayal of women.

 

A side note, I understand and agree with Shipwreck analogy of the Playboy.



#82 metallicoholic   Metal 'Til I'm 60 CAGiversary!   1219 Posts   Joined 12.5 Years Ago  

metallicoholic

Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

I have to disagree with Wombat that the window for a Wii-U price drop is closing fast. I can certainly see the point that once the new systems come out, people will be less interested in the similarly-priced last-gen Nintendo console, but I think the Wii-U could still get a price drop early next year when Mario Kart is released and still drum up some interest. Dropping the Wii-U price now might move a few more consoles but there's still a lack of a strong library for the system. I can't see the millions of casual gamers that Nintendo acquired with the Wii looking at the Wii-U as anything but an unnecessary upgrade right now. 

 

 



#83 Bluesilo   Movie/Game Reviewer CAGiversary!   106 Posts   Joined 12.8 Years Ago  

Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:10 PM

RE: Dragon's Crown discussion

 

Saw this video posted on Escapist today. Damn shame that a game has to receive perfects around the board, otherwise its deemed a failure. If someone really is only looking for a game to topple Zelda: OOT as the best reviewed game on Metacritic its probably never going to happen because there are a lot more reviewers these days. Also, for a 'new' gaming site, Polygon has certainly been in a lot of review controversy [SimCity, Last of Us, Dragon's Crown] to name a few. I remember when GameSpot was the bad guy. 

 

Not to sound sexist, but perhaps women would find the designs in Dragon's Crown more offensive than men. It by no means is acceptable depiction of women, but men are far more likely to let it slide imo. I don't believe that IGN's review of the title even mentioned being turned off from the art style. 



#84 moon_knight   Gotta Have Blue Hair CAGiversary!   766 Posts   Joined 10.1 Years Ago  

moon_knight

Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:43 AM

I find sexualization of either gender in media to not be a problem at all. People need to calm down



#85 sohcahtoa guy   Boop beep. CAGiversary!   329 Posts   Joined 11.9 Years Ago  

sohcahtoa guy

Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:04 AM

I have to disagree with Wombat that the window for a Wii-U price drop is closing fast. I can certainly see the point that once the new systems come out, people will be less interested in the similarly-priced last-gen Nintendo console, but I think the Wii-U could still get a price drop early next year when Mario Kart is released and still drum up some interest. Dropping the Wii-U price now might move a few more consoles but there's still a lack of a strong library for the system. I can't see the millions of casual gamers that Nintendo acquired with the Wii looking at the Wii-U as anything but an unnecessary upgrade right now. 

 

Good thoughts, but I think Wombat is right about a true price drop.  Instead, Nintendo will create a bundle with a free (or more than one) game at the same price point near Xmas.  I love my Wii U, but Nintendo must be betting on Smash Bros to save the system.

 

I LOVED it when they dropped the price on the 3DS and gave the early adopters free games to download.  I was hoping for something like that around E3 this year.  Meh.



#86 codenamelenny   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   200 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

codenamelenny

Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:55 PM

A price drop now I don't think will do much. They do NEED to do a price drop but after there are more games and they advertise a little better. They need another marketing push to explain what the Wii U is to the mainstream.



#87 Kuromimi   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   109 Posts   Joined 13.9 Years Ago  

Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

Great show guys! Wombat, you should get a PC. The games are cheaper, better looking and people can easily give you games for free.



#88 Sgt Barone   CAG since 2008 CAGiversary!   2033 Posts   Joined 10.8 Years Ago  

Sgt Barone

Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:14 PM

Great show as always, guys.

#89 TheDrypa   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   23 Posts   Joined 8.5 Years Ago  

TheDrypa

Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:50 AM

I'm glad Cheapy is enjoying Saints Row IV, but does he actually believe it will do well sales wise? In this overcrowded end of the year where the absolute best of the best in games is coming out, Saints Row doesn't stand a chance in my opinion. I only have so much cash to spend on games, and I'll be saving my cash for GTA V and Watchdogs. And I also still have to buy all the great games that came out earlier this year. I'll probably pick up Saints Row IV when it's under 20 euro's. I know a lot of my friends who are doing the exact same thing. Having played Saints Row The Third and completing it 100%, I really don't feel the need to pay another 40-50 euro's just to buy the same game with different jokes.

 



#90 Colgol   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   26 Posts   Joined 11.4 Years Ago  

Posted 08 August 2013 - 10:33 AM

Wombat: You should start a campaign against violent video-advertisement before videos on youtube as well. I look at a lot of tractor- and, excavatorvids and of course a lot of kids videos with my 2yr-old, and get a lot of advertisement for 18+ movies and such! They should also have a way to let me choose family friendly ads.. My last example before a Bob the Builder-song was an ad for the movie R.I.P.D

 

It's not just xbox that have these kind of problems.