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#10321 Syntax Error   Art School Dropout CAGiversary!   10709 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

Syntax Error

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:37 AM

I just think it's silly that some games get called ARPGs but then Skyrim and The Witcher 2 don't even though you're button mashing or doing combos in those games.

 

Haven't played Witcher but, for stuff like Skyrim, I'd say the difference is that in an ARPG like Borderlands or Torchlight the action IS the game.

 

To go in the other direction, Assassins Creed 4 was full of button mashing, equipment upgrades and even a shallow crafting system but no one* was calling it an RPG.  FC3 has button mashing, crafting, and skill trees but I never saw anyone playing it refer to it as an RPG.  Well, I suppose that one idiotic review calling it "Skyrim with guns" implied it.

 

(*Well, no one I saw.  I'm sure someone out there has a blog calling it an RPG though)



#10322 Idiotekque   couch slave CAGiversary!   8920 Posts   Joined 6.8 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:43 AM

Haven't played Witcher but, for stuff like Skyrim, I'd say the difference is that in an ARPG like Borderlands or Torchlight the action IS the game.

 

To go in the other direction, Assassins Creed 4 was full of button mashing, equipment upgrades and even a shallow crafting system but no one* was calling it an RPG.  FC3 has button mashing, crafting, and skill trees but I never saw anyone playing it refer to it as an RPG.  Well, I suppose that one idiotic review calling it "Skyrim with guns" implied it.

 

(*Well, no one I saw.  I'm sure someone out there has a blog calling it an RPG though)

 

But see, those are shallow RPG-esque systems tacked on. Every game and it's mother has RPG elements in it nowadays, that doesn't invalidate the game from its main genre. Borderlands, on the other hand, is steeped in RPG mechanics in all regards, besides having a FPS combat system, which is uncommon in RPGs.

 

It's all about what's at the core of a game. Assassin's Creed and Far Cry are clearly not RPGs at the core, they simply have light RPG elements spattered in.



#10323 Motoki   Big Fish Grandma CAGiversary!   16775 Posts   Joined 7.2 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:45 AM

ARPG only became a thing in the first place because back in the olden days the default combat for RPGs was turn based. It's not anymore so I'd still argue that label is antiquated. FWIW in the 90s Elder Scrolls were commonly labeled ARPGs because of the real time slashing combat.

 

Anyhow most games are hybridized to some degree or other these days. There's action in RPGs and RPGs in action games and Visual Novel choose your own adventure stuff (aka 'The [Bioware] Choice Test') in RPGs and Winter Wolves Visual novels with RPG elements etc etc.



#10324 Idiotekque   couch slave CAGiversary!   8920 Posts   Joined 6.8 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:56 AM

ARPG only became a thing in the first place because back in the olden days the default combat for RPGs was turn based. It's not anymore so I'd still argue that label is antiquated. FWIW in the 90s Elder Scrolls were commonly labeled ARPGs because of the real time slashing combat.

 

Anyhow most games are hybridized to some degree or other these days. There's action in RPGs and RPGs in action games and Visual Novel choose your own adventure stuff (aka 'The [Bioware] Choice Test') in RPGs and Winter Wolves Visual novels with RPG elements etc etc.

 

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#10325 rcsample   You're entering a world of pain! CAGiversary!   4334 Posts   Joined 5.4 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:06 AM

53537864.jpg

Two great tastes that HitlerCat thinks go great together!



#10326 hal   Game Hoarder CAGiversary!   5632 Posts   Joined 11.9 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:14 AM

Funny to pick one sentence out of many to pick apart, but okay.

 

That's the difference of opinion. No clue why you see action as non-RPG. I feel completely the opposite. These are typically games about swords and magic and goblins and demons, and blood. Lots of blood. Oh no, if there's any action, that ain't no RPG.

 

I picked it because it was the most wrong and because I wanted to comment on that one sentence and not the others. 

 

You said DIablo was entirely RPG. I took exception. Diablo/Torchlight are action games with a shit ton of loot. 

 

Of course everyone will settle on the definition that makes them the happiest, so... whatever. May I just suggest that you look more closely at the core of the game as a deciding factor in assigning a genre? Every game is adopting stuff that's traditionally associated with RPGs, as gamers are demanding deeper experiences. There has to be a defining factor or you're going to be calling every game an RPG. 



#10327 MrNinjaSquirrel   Emo Blogger CAGiversary!   12143 Posts   Joined 5.8 Years Ago  

MrNinjaSquirrel

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:27 AM

To me, when a game doesn't easily fall into one genre or another (which is almost everything these days) I categorize it based on whatever elements are most prominent. For Borderlands I consider that the shooting, so I'd say it's a FPS with RPG elements, whereas Fallout 3 is more heavily centered around its RPG mechanics (though I'm not at all clear what people consider those anymore after reading these posts) so I would say that's an RPG that happens to play like an FPS.

 

Really though this whole argument is silly, since no one is going to convince the other to change their mind, and at this point everyone is just running in circles.



#10328 zenii   cynical sam CAGiversary!   1268 Posts   Joined 6.2 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:30 AM

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#10329 asheskitty  

asheskitty

Posted 14 August 2014 - 06:14 AM

To me, when a game doesn't easily fall into one genre or another (which is almost everything these days) I categorize it based on whatever elements are most prominent. For Borderlands I consider that the shooting, so I'd say it's a FPS with RPG elements, whereas Fallout 3 is more heavily centered around its RPG mechanics (though I'm not at all clear what people consider those anymore after reading these posts) so I would say that's an RPG that happens to play like an FPS.

 

Really though this whole argument is silly, since no one is going to convince the other to change their mind, and at this point everyone is just running in circles.

You know who also ran around in circles?  These guys.

 

1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute.jpg

 

Ref, in case you're not familiar with the '68 Olympics.



#10330 Idiotekque   couch slave CAGiversary!   8920 Posts   Joined 6.8 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:38 AM

I picked it because it was the most wrong and because I wanted to comment on that one sentence and not the others. 

 

You said DIablo was entirely RPG. I took exception. Diablo/Torchlight are action games with a shit ton of loot. 

 

Of course everyone will settle on the definition that makes them the happiest, so... whatever. May I just suggest that you look more closely at the core of the game as a deciding factor in assigning a genre? Every game is adopting stuff that's traditionally associated with RPGs, as gamers are demanding deeper experiences. There has to be a defining factor or you're going to be calling every game an RPG. 

 

Have you been like... reading anything I've said? No problem if you haven't, I've been on a typing spree, but you may want to read before calling someone "wrong". Unless of course you meant it was the "most wrong" out of all the "right" things!  :bouncy:

 

But anyways, as for your "suggestion", that's what I do. A combat style does not a game make. I've said time and again how the core of the game is the key to deciding the genre, while the extra jangly bits (like a "skill tree" in Far Cry) are just additional elements.

 

If you think combat style = genre, then that's your prerogative, but I think that's a pretty shallow judgment of the genre of a game.



#10331 Mooby   Herp Derp CAGiversary!   10318 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:33 AM

 I just think it's silly that some games get called ARPGs but then Skyrim and The Witcher 2 don't even though you're button mashing or doing combos in those games.

 

They are ARPGs.  They only people who don't think so are like 20 something hipsters.



#10332 greendayrulestce   Gayness rules don't fit CAGiversary!   1183 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

greendayrulestce

Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:55 AM

They are ARPGs.  They only people who don't think so are like 20 something hipsters.

If Skyrim isn't an ARPG I don't know anything. There's RPG and loot gathering and pillaging you swing a fuckin' sword (optional).



#10333 Neuro5i5   pʎslǝxıɔ CAGiversary!   10386 Posts   Joined 6.0 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

You're all still arguing?

Morans.

#10334 Bruticis   Banned Banned   1558 Posts   Joined 10.6 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:04 PM

If you need to know if a game is an RPG or not, just ask me. I'll set you straight.



#10335 lastemp3ror   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   1391 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

lastemp3ror

Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

Edit- nevermind I guess I really didn't know what a ARPG was



#10336 Syntax Error   Art School Dropout CAGiversary!   10709 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

Syntax Error

Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

Really though this whole argument is silly, since no one is going to convince the other to change their mind, and at this point everyone is just running in circles.

 

You greatly misunderstand the point of internet arguments ;)



#10337 Motoki   Big Fish Grandma CAGiversary!   16775 Posts   Joined 7.2 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

Because so many times that person who is being told by someone else they are a completely idiot and their entire viewpoint is wrong suddenly has an epiphany and realizes guy on the internet calling them an idiot full of shit is completely right and they totally change their mind. Yep, happens all the time.



#10338 Syntax Error   Art School Dropout CAGiversary!   10709 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

Syntax Error

Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:37 PM

I travel the internet, turning Christians into atheists, Republicans into Democrats and console devotees into PC gamers with naught but the power of a well crafted, insightful phrase.



#10339 Motoki   Big Fish Grandma CAGiversary!   16775 Posts   Joined 7.2 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

Okay go to GOG and start proselytizing about Steam. ;)



#10340 TwelveVolt   Nobody from Nowhere CAGiversary!   2371 Posts   Joined 11.3 Years Ago  

TwelveVolt

Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

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#10341 hal   Game Hoarder CAGiversary!   5632 Posts   Joined 11.9 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:39 PM

But anyways, as for your "suggestion", that's what I do. A combat style does not a game make. I've said time and again how the core of the game is the key to deciding the genre, while the extra jangly bits (like a "skill tree" in Far Cry) are just additional elements.

 

If you think combat style = genre, then that's your prerogative, but I think that's a pretty shallow judgment of the genre of a game.

 

Combat style? I dunno... not really. I'm just thinking about what you do most of the game. 

 

Diablo - click and run

Borderlands - shoot and run

 

Having said that, I should have known better than to jump into the tired old RPG debate and it's gone on for pages. Steam has this great feature that lets me categorize games my own way, so I'll just be happy with that.



#10342 louiedog   20 minutes into the future CAGiversary!   5646 Posts   Joined 11.4 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

I updated my Humble App this morning and they made big changes. They updated the look and it will now download music and ebooks to your device. You can specify the download directories for each type of content. This should make downloading comics for tablet consumption much easier.



#10343 nitrosmob   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   8929 Posts   Joined 12.3 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

I updated my Humble App this morning and they made big changes. They updated the look and it will now download music and ebooks to your device. You can specify the download directories for each type of content. This should make downloading comics for tablet consumption much easier.

 

Oh I need to download it, as the last time I used it, it worked but was clunky.



#10344 gilby   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   4654 Posts   Joined 6.2 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:10 PM

Because so many times that person who is being told by someone else they are a completely idiot and their entire viewpoint is wrong suddenly has an epiphany and realizes guy on the internet calling them an idiot full of shit is completely right and they totally change their mind. Yep, happens all the time.

I never thought of it that way.

 

You're completely right.  This discussion isn't at all a waste of time and Idiotekque really should keep going.



#10345 warreni   Eminently punchable CAGiversary!   5360 Posts   Joined 8.5 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:14 PM

I never thought of it that way.

 

You're completely right.  This discussion isn't at all a waste of time and Idiotekque really should keep going.

Man, I so totally gilby'ed this argument. Oh well, I guess I'll wait a couple of months and mention the words "Borderlands" or "Portal" again and see what happens.  :-



#10346 asheskitty  

asheskitty

Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:59 PM

Steam has this great feature that lets me categorize games my own way, so I'll just be happy with that.

I can't sleep at night because you're categorizing your games in your library wrong.



#10347 The Sifu   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1653 Posts   Joined 15.4 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:05 PM

New Humble Store Daily Deal:

Other Humble Store sales:



#10348 asheskitty  

asheskitty

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:16 PM

Great price on (IG X) ESJ, quite a stylish platformer. 



#10349 MrNinjaSquirrel   Emo Blogger CAGiversary!   12143 Posts   Joined 5.8 Years Ago  

MrNinjaSquirrel

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:32 PM

Other Humble Store sales:

ESJ and its mini sequel are both awesome; definitely recommend them if you've not picked them up already. I have reviews for both but I'm too lazy to link them.

#10350 Ltrain23   Luigi Death Stare CAGiversary!   1661 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:38 PM

ESJ and its mini sequel are both awesome; definitely recommend them if you've not picked them up already. I have reviews for both, but I'm too lazy to link them. and thankfully Ltrain23 has linked them for me.

FTFY







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