New year, new thread.
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, and Frank Thomas are now Hall of Famers.
2014 MLB Season Discussion
By
DNukem170
, Jan 08 2014 07:29 PM
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This topic is locked
#5
The Drunken Whaler
Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:47 PM
Biggio has 65 fWAR and Bagwell has 80 fWAR. In comparison, Frank Thomas had 72 fWAR and Glavine had 64 fWAR. If those two are in, then the other two need to be in. But then again, most (the old times) voters don't vote with hard-proven facts and stats, they vote with unwarranted and false prejudices and ancient, luck-based stats.
- CookieParty likes this
#6
Life is short... stunt it
Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:15 PM
The Hall of Fame is bullshit anyway when Albert Belle doesn't even get close to getting in. It's a popularity contest.
Armando Benitez and JT Snow got a vote today, Belle didn't. The Hall is barely legitimate at that point.
Armando Benitez and JT Snow got a vote today, Belle didn't. The Hall is barely legitimate at that point.
#10
Banned
Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:13 AM
Why should he get stripped of it? The end result of the vote was solid and it's just as legitimate a way as the baseball writers.
Officially it was because he gave away his hallowed vote. In reality, it was because he gave it away to Deadspin. If he had done this on ESPN, he would have looked like a goofball, but no controversy.
Never mind that a giant chunk of voters no longer even covet baseball and only know these guys from columnists and SportsCenter highlights.
#12
CAGiversary!
Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:22 AM
The Hall of Fame is bullshit anyway when Albert Belle doesn't even get close to getting in. It's a popularity contest.
Armando Benitez and JT Snow got a vote today, Belle didn't. The Hall is barely legitimate at that point.
Or the A-holes who left Maddux off the ballot or whose only vote was Jack Morris. Its a joke and I am glad LeBatard did that. The ballot was actually pretty legit too. Better than some of those old hacks who vote based off of some ancient ritual that only certain people get in. Elect Bonds and Clemens. Yeah they are a-holes and probably did Roids, but so did most players at that time. Players who played with speed and other drugs are in and don't get me started on the players who played when it was white players only.
#13
CAGiversary!
Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:29 AM
I don't understand all the "rage" towards 'roids. Seriously... pre 2000 you could buy the same stuff in prohormone (which is actually worse for your body hence the federal ban) form from GNC, Vitamin Shoppe or any other supplement store. McGwire admitted to using "andro" which was openly sold at GNC.
We're going to bag all over the guys who used supplements to get bigger but those who had treatments of varying degrees to prolong their careers get a pass?
What about those who took thermogenics or diuretics to shed weight, injections to get back on the field sooner or who knows what.
- renique46 likes this
#15
Life is short... stunt it
Posted 10 January 2014 - 05:34 AM
There are guys in the hall who used. It's so stupid. Honestly? Just put guys like Clemens and Bonds in. It's obvious they were great players. Leave out Sosa who is a direct product of steroids, and Mac who was a one dimensional player helped by steroids. It's honestly not hard.
- CookieParty likes this
#16
CAGiversary!
Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:29 AM
Because baseball is "sacred" and nobody cheated until 1988.
The sacred Mitchell Report said steroid use was 'prevalent' in 1973. Plus Mays, Aaron and others were the ones who told players in the 80s where to get amphetamines and other performance enhancing products. This was revealed in the crack scandal. I guess it's scandalous for Barry Bonds to have career years at 37 and 38, but not for Hank Aaron, whose two best seasons by ISO/wRC+/OPS were his age 37 and 39 seasons.
Craig Biggio is the hitting analog to Tom Glavine. If Glavine's first ballot HOF, Biggio should be as well. Actually, after looking it over a bit, I give the edge to Biggio.
- CookieParty likes this
#17
Murders & Executions
Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM
There are guys in the hall who used. It's so stupid. Honestly? Just put guys like Clemens and Bonds in. It's obvious they were great players. Leave out Sosa who is a direct product of steroids, and Mac who was a one dimensional player helped by steroids. It's honestly not hard.
Agree 100%. This has been my stance for some time. I think it was right that Clemens and Bonds got denied going in on the 1st ballot. That's an honor they don't deserve. But they should go in now. They were both HoF talents without steroids. Keep out those that clearly were products of steroids, though.
It's pretty hilarious how high and mighty the BWAA is coming off. They act like they are completely unbiased individuals, and that only they can handle the sacred obligation of voting on these awards. You know, like when Jill Painter put Shawn Green on her ballot, or how the only 2 people who didn't give McCutchen 1st place MVP votes were St. Louis sports writers who gave it to Molina, instead. Yep, completely and totally unbiased and well-informed voters!
#18
Shhh...I'm Invisible
Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:51 PM
Wow...am I really the first to break the happy news in here? A-Rod's suspension has been handed down as 162 games. I'm assuming he would be eligible for the playoffs if the Yankees make it. And I really hope they do, because it would kind of be poetic justice to see the team tell him that he's been cut in October...just like how he announced that he was opting out of his contract in October. I'm so freaking ecstatic right now.
There was certainly a time when A-Rod was the best player to pick up a baseball bat. But thoughout that entire time, he never said the right things, he rubbed people the wrong way, etc. Once he was found to be a cheater on top of that, I'm sorry...but there was just no going back. I saw his statement about "never being caught" and you've got to be freaking kidding me. He was busted once and had to admit to it. Naturally, he's going to say "I only used them from X to Y...but I don't use them anymore". Then, when he's linked to a HUGE PED ring, we're supposed to just believe he's only there for some botox? lol.
He doesn't have some God given right to play Major League Baseball...just like Phil Robertson doesn''t have a God given right to have a reality TV show. If you act like a damned moron, it can be taken away from you. And I don't think anybody can argue that A-Rod has handled the PED allegations like anything other than the village idiot. If you don't want to be linked to steroids...stop hanging around with people who sell steroids. It's not hard. Good riddance.
#19
CAGiversary!
Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:57 PM
^ Thanks for breaking that. I had no idea.
Red Sox fan here so I have a lot of natural disdain for the Yankee's but through it all it's easy to recognize that most Yankee's are complete professionals (Jeter and Rivera come to mind) however A-Rod is a Hall of Fame douchebag and an all around clown.
I mean this is America... we'll forgive anyone all you have to do is admit to (and only to) what people know and come up with a believable story to counter what people suspect and A-Rod just continues to feed BS story after BS story all while acting like he's the victim and MLB is out to screw him.
I mean you'd think someone who has made hundreds of millions of dollars out of this sport would care a little bit more about his legacy and the organization that signs his check but there doesn't seem to be a shred of decency there.
Maybe all the steroid abuse will give him testicular cancer and everything in the world will go back to normal.
#20
Shhh...I'm Invisible
Posted 11 January 2014 - 05:58 PM
Ya know...thinking about it further, MLB should just institute a policy where they drug test statistical leaders every week or so. Sure, that's basically profiling. But is it not a good kind of profiling? At some point, wouldn't players be proud to say "I'm leading the league in home runs...and here's proof that I'm doing it clean"?
That may seem like overkill, but with the reputation MLB has right now...I'm not 100% sure that people view it as being much more legit than WWE, lol. The truth is, nobody gives a shit if someone is using PEDs if they're not making all-star teams or winning awards (thus making a case for the Hall of Fame). Test your top 10 statistical leaders and be done with it.
#21
Banned
Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:35 PM
Only the writers even give a shit about PEDs in the first place. Most fans don't care.
I am no A-Rod fan, but the witch hunt MLB sent on him was going too far at times and nobody involved in the matter acted in the right way.
This does mean the Yankees don't have a legitimate 3B however, so that's good news.
I am no A-Rod fan, but the witch hunt MLB sent on him was going too far at times and nobody involved in the matter acted in the right way.
This does mean the Yankees don't have a legitimate 3B however, so that's good news.
#22
Murders & Executions
Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:00 PM
I am sure the Yankee brass will gladly trade the money they are about to save for the issues they will have filling his spot. Worst case scenario, they play Roberts at 2nd (and pray he holds up the whole season) and stick Kelly Johnson at 3rd.
#23
Shhh...I'm Invisible
Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:05 PM
Only the writers even give a shit about PEDs in the first place. Most fans don't care.
I am no A-Rod fan, but the witch hunt MLB sent on him was going too far at times and nobody involved in the matter acted in the right way.
This does mean the Yankees don't have a legitimate 3B however, so that's good news.
I am sure the Yankee brass will gladly trade the money they are about to save for the issues they will have filling his spot. Worst case scenario, they play Roberts at 2nd (and pray he holds up the whole season) and stick Kelly Johnson at 3rd.
Yeah, it cracks me up when people bring up this argument. Had all of this not happened, and Yankee fans made an argument for how good the team was going to be this year because "A-Rod is finally healthy", all we'd hear is how old and washed up he is, and how he never performs in big situations. But ever since Yankee fans have faced realtiy and admitted what a waste he's been, now all of a sudden everybody else defends him.
As for the A-Rod "witch hunt"...
that nonsense. Nobody did this to him. He brought this all on himself. Does MLB have a vendetta against him? Yeah, maybe. So what? At this point, he's shit all over the game. Stop having your name linked to steroids and other dirty practices, and you won't find yourself in the middle of a "witch hunt". There are countless other players who are able to avoid it. Why is A-Rod not accountable for his actions just like everyone else? Nobody made him do this.
#24
Banned
Posted 11 January 2014 - 11:00 PM
Selig wanted him Pete Rose'd. He is not a saint by any means, but trying to ban him is going too far. Hell, Bonds didn't get anywhere near the grief from MLB that A-Rod got.
And I am not saying the Yankees are good with A-Rod. However, he was one of their better hitters last year and they have no 3B on the roster who I'd anywhere close to his diminished level.
And I am not saying the Yankees are good with A-Rod. However, he was one of their better hitters last year and they have no 3B on the roster who I'd anywhere close to his diminished level.
#25
CAGiversary!
Posted 11 January 2014 - 11:36 PM
Selig wanted him Pete Rose'd. He is not a saint by any means, but trying to ban him is going too far. Hell, Bonds didn't get anywhere near the grief from MLB that A-Rod got.
And I am not saying the Yankees are good with A-Rod. However, he was one of their better hitters last year and they have no 3B on the roster who I'd anywhere close to his diminished level.
Bonds is a douchebag but not to the degree that A-Rod is. He personally interfered with an investigation and thought he was bigger then the game.
#26
Shhh...I'm Invisible
Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:18 AM
Bonds is a douchebag but not to the degree that A-Rod is. He personally interfered with an investigation and thought he was bigger then the game.
Not to mention A-Rod is defiantly still trying to play and break records...which just tarnishes them even more. Maybe they're trying to learn from the mistakes they made with Bonds.
#28
Shhh...I'm Invisible
Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:57 AM
A-Rod isn't eligible for the postseason. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out in Federal
Court. Theres a CBA in place, I don't understand how a court can overturn that.
Yeah, I just read that. I guess the "162 games" part makes it sound like the Yankees aren't expected to do anything this year, lol. But it being the whole season no matter what makes more sense. It's crazy to me that Alex is still going to fight it. It's not like Bud Selig just handed this out himself. It went to an arbitrator...who reviewed the case for 7 days after both sides made their cases. A-Rod keeps making statements as though there was no evidence against him. This suspension wouldn't have even gotten off the ground if they didn't have reasonable evidence. His level of denial is just insane.
#30
Artist formerly known as Burritoman
Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:50 AM
Biggio should be in. No doubt.
Bagwell and Thomas are very similar players. I think the knock on Bagwell is that he is short of 500 home runs. They are so comparable, they have the same birthday. Very similar career average, both close to 500 doubles, Thomas has about a whole season's more games played, Bagwell has over 200 stolen bases. Bagwell was a pretty decent defender, and Thomas didn't really play the field after 2001 (give or take a year or 2). He became a full time DH. Both were dominant, young players for most of the 90's. Bagwell's body broke down before Big Frank's.
I just want to see the first Astros go into the hall of fame, and I want it to be those guys.
