GOP’s hideous strategy to survive as the “white party”

Msut77

Msut77

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Salon has an excellent summary of the recent moves to restricting voting with paltry or non existent justification:

Three stories in the last three days brought into focus exactly how Republicans plan to tough out the demographic extinction that is eventually coming for them, if they remain a 90 percent white party in a country that will be less than half white within 25 years. One, they’re doing as Wisconsin did, and ramming through voting restrictions in states controlled by Republicans. As the New York Times reported Sunday, Wisconsin is only one of nine states have made it harder to vote since Obama’s re-election (18 states had already made it tougher after he won the first time, according to the Brennan Center).

 
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/03/republican_voter_suppression_rationales_why_voter_integrity_is_nonsense.html

The fact that some communities have a greater demand for voting than others reduces Grothman’s logic to obvious nonsense. To wit, under the constraints established by the new law, voters in the cities and large suburbs of Wisconsin are at a disadvantage compared to their rural counterparts. For example, Republicans have limited total early voting time to 45 hours during the week. In order to accommodate the number of early voters in 2012 under that time limit, explained Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, you’d have to have a voter cast a ballot every nine seconds. Areas with fewer voters, of course, would have an easier time.

 
It's not hard....The more people the vote = better for Dems. The less people that vote = better for GOP. Think about that for a while. 

 
Why aren't non-whites interested in primaries and non-presidential elections?

 
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Spokker said:
Black people can't get IDs?
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Been asking this for a long time. I understand people being against things like early voting restrictions, but I still have yet to hear a logical argument as to why being asked for identification hurts someone's ability to vote. Besides, how do you function WITHOUT some form of identification?

 
People in poverty need ID to get their social services, even their reduced fare bus pass. That's in liberal Los Angeles! You need ID to get a job, which is what people in poverty really need, right?

 
Spokker said:
People in poverty need ID to get their social services, even their reduced fare bus pass. That's in liberal Los Angeles! You need ID to get a job, which is what people in poverty really need, right?
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No, people in poverty need to be given the absolute bare minimum to get by in their everyday lives and then we can all pat ourselves on the back thinking we are actually helping these people. Who needs actual solutions when we can just take other people's money and spend it on a bandaid solution?

But I agree, I have no idea at all how forcing IDs to vote is suppressing a vote. I don't drive, but I have an ID. Why wouldn't I have an ID? It makes 0 sense. I've asked this during election season in 2012 when this was a big topic, and the most common response I would get is that "it's hard to obtain for some people". I don't understand how? It's not like getting a state ID is expensive. It's not. I understand it changes state to state, but I highly doubt state IDs costs HUNDREDS of dollars to obtain. In my crazy expensive state of NJ a non-driver's liscense is $24 + $6 fee. $30. If you are so bent on voting, and you can't somehow over a period of time come up with $30, you should focus your priorities on improving your situation. Sadly, the last sentence to the politically correct police will have me attacked. I'm sure I'm not being "compassionate enough" or "not understanding". That's fine, but if you are an adult and can NOT come up with $30 to get an ID that you need for A LOT OF THINGS... you need to really re-evaluate your situation and try and fix yourself.

I am very VERY open to understanding "Why" it's "so difficult" for some people to obtain. I would love to be informed on this. Tell me that in "these states" to get an ID costs $500+. Tell me it costs $200+! A few hundred I can somewhat understand it being difficult for people with low income to eventually save up and obtain. Under $100? Inexcusable.

EDIT: I re-read it incorrectly. In NJ, it's $24 for a non-driver's liscense. It's $6 for that if you have a disability. Yep. $6 for the disabled.

 
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lilboo said:
No, people in poverty need to be given the absolute bare minimum to get by in their everyday lives and then we can all pat ourselves on the back thinking we are actually helping these people. Who needs actual solutions when we can just take other people's money and spend it on a bandaid solution?
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Ever been to a "state" (i.e. benefits) building on the first of the month?


Cute thread. Looked at the OP ID and couldn't imagine he'd be able to string enough words together to create a thread. Wasn't disappointed. Two posts, one being the OP and < 20 of his own words.

 
GBAstar said:
Ever been to a "state" (i.e. benefits) building on the first of the month?


Cute thread. Looked at the OP ID and couldn't imagine he'd be able to string enough words together to create a thread. Wasn't disappointed. Two posts, one being the OP and < 20 of his own words.
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No, I haven't. I'm not sure where you are going with that?

 
The links were mostly about restrictions on voting days and hours. Not sure why most of thethe focus is on Identification requirements.
 
Msut77 said:
The links were mostly about restrictions on voting days and hours. Not sure why most of thethe focus is on Identification requirements.
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Because:

a) people are afraid to read the linked article and discover something that would hurt their worldview

b) we live in a world where folks have so little shame that they'd rather barf out the prewritten talking points so-called "arguments" than engage in discussion.

This "I have an opinion, but I'm the opposite of well-read" is evident in the way people speak of needing IDs to enact Constitutional rights. :)

 
dohdough said:
ITT: Conservatives bitching about voter ID in a thread over an article that has nothing to do with voter ID.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Why would anyone read an article written by an apologist named Jamelle Bouie (seriously follow him on twitter and read other "reach" articles that he's published) that uses a quote such as:

The “uniformity” argument doesn’t make sense, either—but then, neither does the focus on in-person voter fraud, which doesn’t exist. Nonetheless, North Carolina Republicans cited fraud last year when—empowered by the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Voting Rights Act, which struck down the “preclearance” requirement—they passed a sweeping package of restrictions that cut early voting, ended same-day registration, introduced a strict photo identification requirement, and empowered independent “election integrity” groups to monitor polling stations and challenge voter credentials.
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Absolutes are absolutely stupid and an agenda is an agenda.

Edit: People in poverty, that receive benefits, have no problem being first in line to receive their benefits on the 1st but can't find time to vote?

Ever think that maybe it's more important to the people that get paid to bring in votes then it is to the people actually casting a ballot?

And where is all the outrage from the people that are rabble rabble derpy derp "actually getting their vote suppressed"?

How about I make an absolute statement and say "it doesn't exist because the people that want to vote are actually voting".

All the lefties are doing is trying to lead a horse to water that doesn't want to drink. And benefiting from it. Think about dat.

 
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GBAstar said:
Why would anyone read an article written by an apologist named Jamelle Bouie (seriously follow him on twitter and read other "reach" articles that he's published) that uses a quote such as:


Absolutes are absolutely stupid and an agenda is an agenda.
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I didn't realize that Bouie wrote all six articles linked in this thread.

As for his quote, are you saying that in-person voter fraud is statistically significant to the point of being able to swing elections?


Edit: People in poverty, that receive benefits, have no problem being first in line to receive their benefits on the 1st but can't find time to vote?

Ever think that maybe it's more important to the people that get paid to bring in votes then it is to the people actually casting a ballot?

And where is all the outrage from the people that are rabble rabble derpy derp "actually getting their vote suppressed"?

How about I make an absolute statement and say "it doesn't exist because the people that want to vote are actually voting".

All the lefties are doing is trying to lead a horse to water that doesn't want to drink. And benefiting from it. Think about dat.
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Hmmm...it's almost as if we didn't have record breaking wait times and lines in the last two presidential elections...

But please, tell me some more about not wanting to vote.

edit: FYI irideabike does it better.
 
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dohdough said:
I didn't realize that Bouie wrote all six articles linked in this thread.

As for his quote, are you saying that in-person voter fraud is statistically significant to the point of being able to swing elections?



Hmmm...it's almost as if we didn't have record breaking wait times and lines in the last two presidential elections...

But please, tell me some more about not wanting to vote.

edit: FYI irideabike does it better.
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Right so people in rural areas... that have no transportation... that may have to travel 30 miles to cast a ballot have an easier time then people that have to travel three blocks.. and oh my god... spend some time waiting.

I would also dare say we had record breaking voter recruitment in the last two elections as well. I'll have to do a quick "google search" to see who won those elections and how they lean.

 
GBAstar said:
Right so people in rural areas... that have no transportation... that may have to travel 30 miles to cast a ballot have an easier time then people that have to travel three blocks.. and oh my god... spend some time waiting.

I would also dare say we had record breaking voter recruitment in the last two elections as well. I'll have to do a quick "google search" to see who won those elections and how they lean.
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Citation needed.
 
Voter ID is pretty awesome. I hope it's on the ballot in my state soon. I want to donate to the campaign to get voter ID laws passed and then a future employer can find out and fire me for not being committed to diversity and tolerance.

 
Instead of insulting people's intelligence and questioning their ability to read, I'd love if some of our far, far more intelligent CAGers could explain how people function in modern society without identification. You need ID to get a job, travel on an airplane, get past security in many buildings...I just really don't understand the big deal here. Everyone should already have some form of state-issued ID.

 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
Instead of insulting people's intelligence and questioning their ability to read, I'd love if some of our far, far more intelligent CAGers could explain how people function in modern society without identification. You need ID to get a job, travel on an airplane, get past security in many buildings...I just really don't understand the big deal here. Everyone should already have some form of state-issued ID.
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Easy, homeless people.
 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
Instead of insulting people's intelligence and questioning their ability to read, I'd love if some of our far, far more intelligent CAGers could explain how people function in modern society without identification. You need ID to get a job, travel on an airplane, get past security in many buildings...I just really don't understand the big deal here. Everyone should already have some form of state-issued ID.
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I dont consider it relevant. It is not illegal to be without ID, if there was a national ID card maybe.

But I was mentioning in another thread, it can be considered discrimination and is called disparate impact.

 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
Instead of insulting people's intelligence and questioning their ability to read, I'd love if some of our far, far more intelligent CAGers could explain how people function in modern society without identification. You need ID to get a job, travel on an airplane, get past security in many buildings...I just really don't understand the big deal here. Everyone should already have some form of state-issued ID.
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Good luck. I'm still waiting for these same folks to explain how it's okay to require an ID to purchase a firearm - a right protected and guaranteed by the Constitution, but it's some form of evil to require an ID to vote, something not guaranteed by the Constitution.
 
By the way, if you don't have an ID, how the hell do you register to vote?

bigdaddybruce44 said:
Instead of insulting people's intelligence and questioning their ability to read, I'd love if some of our far, far more intelligent CAGers could explain how people function in modern society without identification. You need ID to get a job, travel on an airplane, get past security in many buildings...I just really don't understand the big deal here. Everyone should already have some form of state-issued ID.
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Because there is an entire segment of society that isn't working, travelling or have any need to get past security. They are prime targets for Democratic strategists because those people need benefits to survive, and the Democratic party are the folks that are going to give it to them for a price, their vote.

 
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GBAstar said:
They were born homeless?
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Maybe, maybe not. But I'd imagine when you're trying to figure out where you're going to sleep for the night and when your next hot meal is going to be that remembering to renew your ID ain't exactly what you'd call a top priority. But fuck 'em they're poor, probably only homeless cause they're too lazy anyway, right?
 
mykevermin said:
Only people who own land should vote, right, fellas?
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Witty.

RedvsBlue said:
Maybe, maybe not. But I'd imagine when you're trying to figure out where you're going to sleep for the night and when your next hot meal is going to be that remembering to renew your ID ain't exactly what you'd call a top priority. But fuck 'em they're poor, probably only homeless cause they're too lazy anyway, right?
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State ID's tend to not expire for 10 years. Even with an expired ID at least you have proof of person. The only excuse a homeless person should have for being homeless 10+ years is if it is mental health related---and at that point a lost vote is a good vote--but I'm sure you'd prefer they be shuttled down to vote for your guy, severe schizophrenia and all.

 
GBAstar said:
Witty.



State ID's tend to not expire for 10 years. Even with an expired ID at least you have proof of person. The only excuse a homeless person should have for being homeless 10+ years is if it is mental health related---and at that point a lost vote is a good vote--but I'm sure you'd prefer they be shuttled down to vote for your guy, severe schizophrenia and all.
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Hmm, must have missed MN in your study there professor, cause theirs expire in 4 years. Still, tell us more about this. You've found that the sole cause of homelessness longer than 10 years is mental health issues. What about homlessness less than 10 years, what's the leading cause there?
 
RedvsBlue said:
Hmm, must have missed MN in your study there professor, cause theirs expire in 4 years. Still, tell us more about this. You've found that the sole cause of homelessness longer than 10 years is mental health issues. What about homlessness less than 10 years, what's the leading cause there?
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A state ID expires four years after being issued? I don't believe that for a second. Not even a passport expires in four years (assuming you're over 18 when it is issued).

Four years? hahah okay. Sure you're not talking about a Driver's License?

But it's good you'd like to nitpick rather then try and explain a good reason, other then homelessness, as to why someone shouldn't have access to getting a government issued ID.

And either homelessness is a shitty excuse as many are in and out of government funded shelters.

 
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GBAstar said:
A state ID expires four years after being issued? I don't believe that for a second. Not even a passport expires in four years (assuming you're over 18 when it is issued).

Four years? hahah okay. Sure you're not talking about a Driver's License?

But it's good you'd like to nitpick rather then try and explain a good reason, other then homelessness, as to why someone shouldn't have access to getting a government issued ID.

And either homelessness is a shitty excuse as many are in and out of government funded shelters.
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http://www.dmv.org/mn-minnesota/id-cards.php

Renew Your Minnesota ID Card
Your MN state ID card will have an expiration date based on your age:

Under 21 years old: Upon turning 21 years old.
Under 65 years old: 4 years after issuance (on your birthday).
Over 65 years old: No expiration.

Really difficult google work there, particularly when I gave you the state to begin with...

Also, interesting that I'm "nitpicking" by pointing out that an estimated 2-3 million people likely live without an ID and thus would be unable to vote rather than anyone explaining why those 2-3 million homeless people who likely don't have IDs don't deserve to vote. But keep on moving those goal posts...

So, for those watching at home we've asked who lives without an ID, I answer homeless. The only response? Well no one is homeless more than 10 years unless they have mental issues. Refute with evidence that at least one state has IDs that expire in much less than 10 years. The response? I don't believe you, you haven't shown anything. And no evidence to support claim that the only people who are homeless more than 10 years have mental health issues.
 
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You have to have an ID to enter the Democratic National Convention or the White House. Hannity or Rush said it just yesterday... O:)

 
egofed said:
You have to have an ID to enter the Democratic National Convention or the White House. Hannity or Rush said it just yesterday... O:)
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wzQnWdL.gif


 
Msut77 said:
I dont consider it relevant. It is not illegal to be without ID, if there was a national ID card maybe.

But I was mentioning in another thread, it can be considered discrimination and is called disparate impact.
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Just because it's not illegal to not have ID doesn't mean it makes any sense. Everyone should have a form of ID. In NJ, it's $24 for 4 years. That's $6 a year.

 
I'd say that's a straw man. You're unlikely to find people here saying it's *sensible* to not carry an ID.

You will find people saying it is discriminatory and an indirect poll tax to require ID in order to participate in a democracy.

 
you have to produce all kinds of documentation to vote even though there is no such thing as in-person voter fraud, but we should give guns without a second's thought to anyone who wants them in a country where tens of thousands of people each year are killed by firearms. cool!

 
don't you have to go through a background check to get a gun?  and hasn't gun ownership gone down in america in the last 50 years?  do you own a gun?  have you ever been through the background check process?  have you ever read about a gun killing someone without a person firing it?  and doesn't that have nothing to do with the entire conversation here?  and isn't birdman the greatest thing to happen to the miami heat?  and isn't it awesome that subaru is such an environmentally friendly company?  with cars safe for your whole family?  and isn't my pizza done and I have to go pick it up from my friendly local pizza place?  good day lad.

 
Please tell me... you don't actually believe what Salon says?

They are like MSNBC online.
 
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irideabike said:
don't you have to go through a background check to get a gun? and hasn't gun ownership gone down in america in the last 50 years? do you own a gun? have you ever been through the background check process? have you ever read about a gun killing someone without a person firing it? and doesn't that have nothing to do with the entire conversation here? and isn't birdman the greatest thing to happen to the miami heat? and isn't it awesome that subaru is such an environmentally friendly company? with cars safe for your whole family? and isn't my pizza done and I have to go pick it up from my friendly local pizza place? good day lad.
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx

 
mykevermin said:
I'd say that's a straw man. You're unlikely to find people here saying it's *sensible* to not carry an ID.

You will find people saying it is discriminatory and an indirect poll tax to require ID in order to participate in a democracy.
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One thing I never considered, until a friend pointed it out to me, was that in the cities, where it's often more convenient to walk than drive, there are people who don't have driver's licenses because they don't need a car or can't afford one. And then from there, what kind of people live in cities and can't afford cars?

I don't know how accurate their argument was, but it DID make me at least consider there might be other reasons to not have a driver's license than my original stance of "they be lazy/crazy or illegal."

 
How does one get a job without showing photo ID though? Most any legitimate job is going to require two forms of ID, one being a photo ID, so they can fill out the government-required I-9 tax forms.

Do I hear anyone complaining about this "tax" (i.e.: getting an ID) to get taxed?

Also, cashing a check (payroll?) most anywhere requires a photo ID. Virtually any kind of bank account require an ID to get. Most any kind of apartment complex is going to require a photo ID... and there's almost no way you're going to get a bank loan for a house without an ID. You're probably going to have to show ID if you want to take any kind of college courses or even get a library card. Many forms of public assistance require a photo ID when you sign up...

Plus, this all ignores the fact that in many states where Voter ID laws have been passed/considered, the fee for an ID is waved (example: Kansas - http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/DE-VID1.pdf)
 
I guess they are "living off the grid."

Waiving the fee doesn't solve anything, because opponents find another excuse. The most popular is that people don't have the time (work too many hours, can't leave their families, etc.) or the means (transportation) to visit an agency to get the ID issued. Oddly enough, I guess they do find the time to vote, though. If we found a way to deliver them to everyone's doorsteps, they would still cook up an excuse as to why voters shouldn't need an ID.

 
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