They Should Just Make Being Poor and a CheapAss a Crime Already

detectiveconan16

detectiveconan16

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http://www.npr.org/2014/05/18/313618296/court-user-fees-bill-defendants-for-their-punishment

On the radio a story about how courts are pushing the costs of running the system onto the defendants, and it really doesn't help that most of these people can't afford to pay such fees. You may be provided a lawyer (public defender), but in a lot of places you will be forced to pay for your lawyer and administrative fees as well. If you can't, you are going to jail for that debt.

Don't think you can delay paying off those fees and fines, because they'll also tack an interest rate on top of it.

And the kicker, if you want to work off the debt with the local government, you have to pay them in order to do so.

Biggest advice for most Americans? Be obedient little sheep and don't even attempt to be low hanging fruit for the cops.

Turns out there's a Supreme Court case that ruled that you can't put people into jail for not being able to pay their fines: http://www.npr.org/2014/05/21/313118629/supreme-court-ruling-not-enough-to-prevent-debtors-prisons But surely states rights trump that.

 
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Read the article please lad.  No where is it mentioned about all the innocent men and women in jail.  I've heard almost 95% of the criminals in our prison system are innocent when polled.

 
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/m87g43/the-word---debt-or-prison
 
The Colbert Report did it right. If you steal a $2 can of beer, you deserve to remain in jail because you can't pay your court fees and for the cushy room and board you got for the night before trial. If it costs $20k to jail a person, and for that person it includes a place to sleep, meals, and recreation, that's so much better than most Americans have to day. Everybody poor should commit a petty crime in the Real America!
 
Oh yeah, a mother went to jail because her child skipped school and couldn't pay the fine. And she died.
 
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detectiveconan16 said:
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/m87g43/the-word---debt-or-prison

The Colbert Report did it right. If you steal a $2 can of beer, you deserve to remain in jail because you can't pay your court fees and for the cushy room and board you got for the night before trial. If it costs $20k to jail a person, and for that person it includes a place to sleep, meals, and recreation, that's so much better than most Americans have to day. Everybody poor should commit a petty crime in the Real America!

Oh yeah, a mother went to jail because her child skipped school and couldn't pay the fine. And she died.
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outliers ftw!

exceptions aside, who should be paying for the court costs associated for people that break the laws governing the country? If you have a problem with a law, or mandatory sentence, isn't their a better way to go about trying to get that changed?

It does pain my heart though to hear about all these innocents who can't afford their court costs... not like any of them have tattoos, or cell phones, or......... oh yeah priorities.

 
What the hell is the point of paying taxes if it's all going into the salaries of no bid contracts and do nothing politicians? Most Americans don't really care about exactly where the taxpayer money goes, but they should reasonably assume that like the roads they walk on, and the schools their children go to, law & order should be paid for. If the poor deserve to stay in jail because they can't pay for the process that arose from their nearly valueless crime, they should just throw everybody including you, those wacko liberals, those irrational conservatives and reactionaries and I to jail and cut out the middle man.

 
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GBAstar said:
It does pain my heart though to hear about all these innocents who can't afford their court costs... not like any of them have tattoos, or cell phones, or......... oh yeah priorities.
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See, that is where you are wrong. Just because some people work so they can buy things like phones, tattoos, games, cars, a house, pay their bills, etc. doesn't mean that deadbeats should not have the same things. There should be no reason that they should have to pay these bills. I mean, a lot of them are career criminals and have never had jobs, so there is no way they can pay for this stuff. You know what we should do, we should take up a collection and send these guys some money to help cover those costs. Even better, we should just go the Obama route and send them half of our paychecks so that they have enough money and don't have to commit crimes anymore. That's a good idea.

Now for the real answer: This is a wonderful idea. fuck these people. Let them pay their own bills. If they can't pay them, put them in a prison camp. Let them work for 2 dollars a day and pay off that debt the hard way. We have plenty of work for them to do, dig ditches, pick up cans, be live targets on the gun range. Anything to get the leeches out of society and somewhere productive, whether it be at a job no one else wants or in the grave,

 
rebelschs said:
See, that is where you are wrong. Just because some people work so they can buy things like phones, tattoos, games, cars, a house, pay their bills, etc. doesn't mean that deadbeats should not have the same things. There should be no reason that they should have to pay these bills. I mean, a lot of them are career criminals and have never had jobs, so there is no way they can pay for this stuff. You know what we should do, we should take up a collection and send these guys some money to help cover those costs. Even better, we should just go the Obama route and send them half of our paychecks so that they have enough money and don't have to commit crimes anymore. That's a good idea.

Now for the real answer: This is a wonderful idea. fuck these people. Let them pay their own bills. If they can't pay them, put them in a prison camp. Let them work for 2 dollars a day and pay off that debt the hard way. We have plenty of work for them to do, dig ditches, pick up cans, be live targets on the gun range. Anything to get the leeches out of society and somewhere productive, whether it be at a job no one else wants or in the grave,
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Great idea, I'm sure there's no way that would lead to corruption...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-judge-gets-life-sentence-for-prison-kickback-scheme/
http://nypost.com/2014/02/23/film-details-teens-struggles-in-state-detention-in-payoff-scandal/
 
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detectiveconan16 said:
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/m87g43/the-word---debt-or-prison

The Colbert Report did it right. If you steal a $2 can of beer, you deserve to remain in jail because you can't pay your court fees and for the cushy room and board you got for the night before trial. If it costs $20k to jail a person, and for that person it includes a place to sleep, meals, and recreation, that's so much better than most Americans have to day. Everybody poor should commit a petty crime in the Real America!
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It seems like it would be really easy to not steal beer. If he were stealing bread to feed his family, that would get a lot more support. But damn, you don't need a can of beer.

 
Let me ask you all a question. If you receive money from the government, do you deserve to give up your rights as an American?
 
In states like California, in an effort to "combat" welfare fraud, the District Attorney's Office in San Diego can send an investigator into your home for a surprise visit. This visit is a warrantless inspection of EVERY nook and cranny into your home, they can search under your bed, rifle through your underwear drawer, look in your closet, your medicine cabinet, your kitchen, your refridgerator, anything that you have. They tell you right before they step in that they can arrest you on the spot if they find anything that remotely resembles fraud. If you aren't home for the surprise inspection, this is also reason to cut your benefits. This is not a minor occurence, if the number of searches reached 26,000 in the year 2011. Is it worth that $300 or even less a month to have some stranger violate your fourth amendment rights? It doesn't matter what type of person you are, from a single male or a single mother with multiple children who has to work two jobs just to make ends meet. This has been done since the late 1980s.
 
How would you like if you got a tax refund from the government, would you like if some law enforcement associate or agent barging into your house to make you prove that you earned this much to deserve what thousands of dollars you "supposedly" got back? Suppose you earn $50k a year, would you like it if said investigator goes through your extensive collection of comics, records, guns, cars, etc?
 
EDIT oops wnt more ranty.

 
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detectiveconan16 said:
In states like California, in an effort to "combat" welfare fraud, the District Attorney's Office in San Diego can send an investigator into your home for a surprise visit.
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I think most of us would say, that's over the top. Although it's interesting that you said "In states like California" when the article you linked to clearly states this *only* happens in one county in one state... but, yes, over the top.

How would you like if you got a tax refund from the government, would you like if some law enforcement associate or agent barging into your house to make you prove that you earned this much to deserve what thousands of dollars you "supposedly" got back?
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Funny you should mention...

A) Our tax system is set up so that our government has the "right" to do a warrant-less search of our financial records at any time for any reason what-so-ever. Why is no one ever worried about the fact that we have no rights when it comes to not wanting to submit this data to the government?

B) While they don't "barge" into your home, the IRS audit process is insane and very intimidating for the average person who can't even begin to process the legalize thrown at them. Not to mention, the requirement to keep all your paperwork for three years or more (which, considering the current IRS situation, is quite hilarious). If I had to pick, I'd rather someone come into my home and look for incriminating evidence than go through an IRS audit - not that I have anything to hide from either one (and not that I really want either one).
 
But it'll take quite a while for the IRS to do anything. These guys from the DA's office will start sniffing around like they own the place, and even force you to search through your own garbage to prove your innocence. Seems like a lot of work for a measly $300 a month for a single mother with two kids, or $150 for a single person.It's one thing to have a home inspection, but it's another thing to have that be a thorough scouring of your domicile.

I really recommend reading The Divide by Matt Taibbi. It just infuriates me that law enforcement would rather go after low hanging fruit, like minor drug offences and welfare fraud, when just about every week we get evidence of a corporation's misdeeds on the news. And those job creators get a slap on the wrist, especially when it's laundering money for drug cartels harassing Americans over 10+ year debts, the entire financial collapse, and what have you.

 
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I don't think they do enough to check up on people for welfare fraud.

When over 50% of the country gets a government check, and less than 50% pay into that check, we need to get as many motherfuckers off of that shit as possible.

When you have generations of families sucking from the system, we need to do everything to get them out of the system. I'd even go as far as force them to give up their citizenship and be exiled, because I am sick of paying for these leeches to get a free ride.

Law enforcement does go after the wrong guys sometimes, I won't argue that. If someone gets busted with a few joints, they are probably not that dangerous.

 
50% of the u.s. population gets a government check huh? Do you have a source or are you just throwing out bs to further support your inane views. Btw those getting social security don't count for receiving a gov check, ya gotta pay in to get that. As far as leeches what about all the richies using foriegn accounts to evade taxes and pating their fair share. I believe the swedish bank thathelped was hiding about 10 billion in taxable revenue, were given a paltry fine and never had to release names of their leeches.
 
I don't listen to the "Heritage Foundation," they have an agenda.

Besides if you claim that 50% of the country is on welfare, there is a much bigger problem than leeches on the government dime. fuck ing over millions of people won't fix anything.

 
Done reading it, they count social security which I already stated could not be used. They figure people not paying taxes by totaling exemptions on all tax returns vs total population which means individuals with huge write offs count disproportionately against the general population. In other words flawed assumptions and methodology. If I turned something like that in grad school it would have been ripped apart. I do appreciate your citing a source though. Thanks.
 
sweeetja713 said:
Oh and they count student loans as getting something from the government too.
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So basically, according to Heritage Foundation, unless you were born rich then you're mooching off the government. Well, either that or you started your own business and took advantage of absolutely no tax breaks or incentives, cause that happens a lot...
 
Another problem is they acknowledge that of those households not paying taxes "many of these households paid payroll taxes. www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/11/the-2013-index-of-dependence-on-government#_ftn48 sorry for the full link posting from mobile, can't do bbc code
 
sweeetja713 said:
Another problem is they acknowledge that of those households not paying taxes "many of these households paid payroll taxes. www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/11/the-2013-index-of-dependence-on-government#_ftn48 sorry for the full link posting from mobile, can't do bbc code
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Well of course, because the only taxes that count are income and capital gains. Nevermind that we all pay sales taxes, gas taxes, license registration, etc. if your income tax was $0 then you're a moocher.
 
sweeetja713 said:
Another problem is they acknowledge that of those households not paying taxes "many of these households paid payroll taxes. www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/11/the-2013-index-of-dependence-on-government#_ftn48 sorry for the full link posting from mobile, can't do bbc code
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When talking about who pays taxes, anything aside from a direct income tax only applies to those who pay no direct income tax.

"Rich" people who folks often complain about not paying in enough taxes never get things like their sales tax, gas taxes, license registrations, property taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. counted.

After all, how many times have you heard the line about GE paying no taxes...
 
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Ah but here's the thing I believe payroll tax in the sense they're using it is income tax. Basically if you're not paying anything when you file your taxes, in their eyes you don't pay taxes. Also they acknowledge these taxes contribute towards government programs but don't cover everything. Well, yeah all of our income taxes combined don't pay for all of the government programs not just this roughly 50% of people.
 
So you guys are for a total rebuild of our tax system? Zero deductions. A minimum 10% rate and a maximum of 25%. Everyone pays something regardless of their situation and all "profits" are considered income. No offshore havens or stock options to protect the rich while the poor offer up a little contribution so that they actually have some skin in the game. Tax welfare benefits so that the abusers can actually see how contributing members of society have to deal with our tax burden. Don't we already tax social security benefits at certain amounts? Simplify the hell out of the system, let people self report, but make tax evasion penalties uber harsh and with mandatory minimums.
 
egofed said:
So you guys are for a total rebuild of our tax system? Zero deductions. A minimum 10% rate and a maximum of 25%. Everyone pays something regardless of their situation and all "profits" are considered income. No offshore havens or stock options to protect the rich while the poor offer up a little contribution so that they actually have some skin in the game. Tax welfare benefits so that the abusers can actually see how contributing members of society have to deal with our tax burden. Don't we already tax social security benefits at certain amounts? Simplify the hell out of the system, let people self report, but make tax evasion penalties uber harsh and with mandatory minimums.
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Those are all great fantasies but the practical effects of implementation would be staggering. For instance, you want to end offshore havens for the rich. The reason those work on a basic level is because people are moving their money to a foreign country; are you saying you want to disallow anyone to move their money to foreign countries? Further, what about corporations using offshore accounts? If that's the case won't the corporation simply move their business outside of the country to avoid taxes? Are you prepared to say that no foreign corporations will be permitted to do business in the US? Essentially create our own little sealed economy?

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. That's a nice ideal you have laid out. The problem is that the implications of implementing that system would be overwhelming and I frankly feel like the end result won't change that much.
 
I am not a tax specialist by any means, but if we could implement a policy in which all profit that is derived from products and services that are sold within the US is subject to taxes, then a company could move their money anywhere they wish. We need cut and dry tax policy, not this behemoth monstrosity that currently exists. No exemptions, no deductions, we could lower the rates because people would then actually pay what they owe versus loop hole specialists.
 
The Civil and Revolutionary wars were 'overwhelming', but necessary for our country's growth and prosperity.
 
egofed said:
I am not a tax specialist by any means, but if we could implement a policy in which all profit that is derived from products and services that are sold within the US is subject to taxes, then a company could move their money anywhere they wish.
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Something like a federal sales tax? :D

We need cut and dry tax policy, not this behemoth monstrosity that currently exists. No exemptions, no deductions, we could lower the rates because people would then actually pay what they owe versus loop hole specialists.
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This will never happen. Obviously, those on the "right" love their loop holes and, as much as those on the "left" cry about them, they love their tax loop holes just as much as those on the "right".

If people actually had any clue what-so-ever how much they paid in taxes, they might start to realize something isn't right and start trying to get involved. And an involved citizenry is the *last* thing those in power want.
 
I paid about 10% in income tax due to my IRA contributions and mortgage deduction. I can accept that. 39.5%??? That's crazy! Personal property tax and inheritance taxes are crazy to me too. Taxing my house every year? And taxing me for dying?
 
egofed said:
I am not a tax specialist by any means, but if we could implement a policy in which all profit that is derived from products and services that are sold within the US is subject to taxes, then a company could move their money anywhere they wish. We need cut and dry tax policy, not this behemoth monstrosity that currently exists. No exemptions, no deductions, we could lower the rates because people would then actually pay what they owe versus loop hole specialists.
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You really should've just stopped there.

egofed said:
I paid about 10% in income tax due to my IRA contributions and mortgage deduction. I can accept that. 39.5%??? That's crazy! Personal property tax and inheritance taxes are crazy to me too. Taxing my house every year? And taxing me for dying?
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Does someone need to explain marginal/effective tax rates and marginal utility to you again?
 
dohdough said:
You really should've just stopped there.


Does someone need to explain marginal/effective tax rates and marginal utility to you again?
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So the gov't is entitled to a higher percentage of my money just because I have it, or because they determined that I should be satisfied with only a certain amount? BS! The flat tax is truly the fairest, realistic option we have. How exactly do you see marginal utility applying to tax rates?
 
The more money you make, the more you should give to the government as thanks for allowing you to make the money. Without the government helping you, you wouldn't be able to make so much money. Duh. If you were a tax specialist, you'd understand that.
 
You didn't succeed on your own. Everyone else made it happen for you with roads, infrastructure, clean water and etc. Somewhere in California, a small illegal child thanks you for your contribution. 

 
egofed said:
The Civil and Revolutionary wars were 'overwhelming', but necessary for our country's growth and prosperity.
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All the Civil War did was bring us the government we have today. Lincoln should have never started that war, he should have just let us go peacefully.

 
UncleBob said:
The more money you make, the more you should give to the government as thanks for allowing you to make the money. Without the government helping you, you wouldn't be able to make so much money. Duh. If you were a tax specialist, you'd understand that.
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Heheheehheee....I get your sarcasm, but 10% scales upward. That's the beauty of the flat tax. Make $20,000 , pay $2000, make $100,000, pay $10,000. The only fairer option would be to bill people for the actual gov't services they receive. Defense, roads, courts, etc. Divide that cost by the amount of 18 and older citizens and send them the bills.

 
mrsilkunderwear said:
Are you a specialist in anything? If not, then should we just ignore your opinion?
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Have you read the Violence Against Women Act yet? No? That's what I fucking thought.

Buy hey, let's unpack egofed's mountian of bullshit in this quote of his:


egofed said:
I paid about 10% in income tax due to my IRA contributions and mortgage deduction. I can accept that. 39.5%??? That's crazy! Personal property tax and inheritance taxes are crazy to me too. Taxing my house every year? And taxing me for dying?
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39.6% is the federal marginal tax rate for $400,000 and OVER. We all know that ego makes less than 10% of that. And even then the effective tax rate is 29.04%(edit: on $400k+; not $40k...I shouldn't have to be this specific, but some of you have thick skulls).

Property tax is levied by the local town/city.

And estate taxes don't kick in until assets are valued at over $5 million.

So please, tell me more about my "opinion" on those statements.

And ego, you know what's REALLY crazy? The fact that you know next to nothing about taxes and you have other idiots cheering you on with their similar ignorance.


egofed said:
So the gov't is entitled to a higher percentage of my money just because I have it, or because they determined that I should be satisfied with only a certain amount? BS! The flat tax is truly the fairest, realistic option we have. How exactly do you see marginal utility applying to tax rates?
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Tax rates are consumption/benefit based; not how much money you have. Or maybe you can tell me the last time someone was taxed on money that was already taxed.
You won't because you can't.

Flat taxes are inherently not fair because it doesn't take into account the concept of marginal utility of income. The ONLY way it works is there are enough people on the higher spectrum of income. With income disparity the way it is, it's as realistic as you realizing that you're a generational welfare queen.

As for your question, how do you expect me to answer it when you don't even understand the concept and how it currently applies to taxes?
 
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Oh and LO-fucking-L@ "a flat tax is fair at some 'arbitrary' rate that I've determined that coincidentally wouldn't affect my overall tax rate if we switched."

How absolutely magnanimous of you. :rofl:
 
rebelschs said:
All the Civil War did was bring us the government we have today. Lincoln should have never started that war, he should have just let us go peacefully.
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Look here fellas, we have an actual neo-Confederate here! Tell us about how it wasn't about slavery and how it wasn't mentioned in their constitution. I'm dying to see your response.
 
dohdough said:
39.6% is the federal marginal tax rate for $400,000 and OVER.
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Wow. For someone who once tried to claim he accidentally hit the "u" key instead of the "o" key because they're "right beside each other"... This is amazing.

We all know that ego makes less than 10% of that.
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Once again, dragging people's personal business into the mud.

Property tax is levied by the local town/city.
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I didn't see ego specify anything about who taxes were being paid into.

And estate taxes don't kick in until assets are valued at over $5 million.
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And, of course, that makes it okay.

So please, tell me more about my "opinion" on those statements.
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mrsilkunderwear said:
then should we just ignore your opinion?
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Tax rates are consumption/benefit based; not how much money you have. Or maybe you can tell me the last time someone was taxed on money that was already taxed.
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Let's see... if I earn a paycheck, I get taxed - for the Federal Income tax, State/Local tax, Social Security, Medicare. My employer also has to pay out Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Tax, and Worker's Comp - money that one could argue could go into my paycheck. So there's the same money being taxed 4 to 8 times before I even get paid.

Now, when I spend that money, I'm subject to sales taxes. Unless I'm like some folks here and decide to cheat the tax system by buying stuff online and not paying the correct amount of sales tax into the state.

This next one gets a little tricky - but when I do go to buy something, the cost of that item is based off of the cost to get that item to me. Manufacturing, transportation, sales... all add to the cost of that item. Depending on where the item is made, of course, there's various levels of taxes all along the way, built into the cost of getting that item and getting it into my hand. The fuel to run the semi truck that moves the freight from the warehouse to the store? It's taxed - and that tax is built into the cost of the item that I am using my already taxed payroll check money to purchase.

If I use that money to buy something large, like a house or a car, I might have to pay a recurring tax on it. Property taxes for the house, yearly tags for my car. Oh, and, according to some, having to pay for my Driver's License is a "tax".

Then, if I've managed to gather enough savings/stuff when I die and if I want to leave that to my child, it's all taxed again.

But yeah, you never get taxed multiple times on the same money.
 
mrsilkunderwear said:
Did you figure out why you called me a racist yet?
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I'm pretty sure your reply sounded MUCH better in your head because it makes absolutely no sense. Good on you for being consistent! :rofl:

LOLZ this thread is seriously clownshoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE
 
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dohdough said:
I'm pretty sure your reply sounded MUCH better in your head because it makes absolutely no sense. Good on you for being consistent! :rofl:

LOLZ this thread is seriously clownshoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE
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Did you (doh) figure out (find an answer) why (purpose) you called me a racist (something you call a person when you cant win an argument)?

 
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