CAGcast #373: Exciting Story, Morning Glory!

CheapyD

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Shipwreck reviews Shovel Knight, hot dogs, and Aurora, IL.  Divinity: Original Sin, the Destiny Beta, and Abyss Odyssey are also things that are discussed.

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro: Amber - One More Night (Hani's NUM Club Mix) - Outro: GI Joe PSA
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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

 
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Morning Glory is a psychedelic plant (seeds specifically). Nice homework Cheapy. Maybe next years homework can be a marijuana plant.
 
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I'd love a copy of super combo man [=

Also wombat nailed it on 3ds debate. 

 
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Hey guys, Wayne's World's world was mostly based on Scarborough/Toronto Canada but shot in Chicago. Theres a website you can google with location addresses. Stan Mikita's doughnuts is a takeoff on Tim Hortons but was a modified crab shack takeout place and the Gas Works is an old club in Toronto that had rock and punk acts. As a Toronto native it was fun watching Mike Myers movies looking for all the local easter eggs.
 
I'm in for a Super Combo Man code.

After the "gararge" and "brewerererery" fiascos, Wombat and Shipreck clearly missed an oppurtunity to rag on Cheapy's "Metro-Vania" description of Abyss Odyssey.

 
I do think Cheapy is right about Nintendo. The biggest way they are refusing to adapt is the concept of a digital locker. Steam has been doing it for years, PSN has done it to great success in the last couple of years, and Microsoft is finally jumping on board. That means having digital content at competitive prices (not putting Zelda OOT 3D on "sale" for $25 three years after release), having a comprehensive digital presence with attached licenses (no more licensing to the console), and utilizing a cross-buy or subscription model.

Imagine if they had an extensive catalog of their old properties, priced competitively, with cross-buy and forwards-compatibility for any future Nintendo platforms. Buy Super Mario RPG for $3.99 and get it on every compatible Nintendo platform going forward. That would be an incredible way for users to build a digital catalog, and for Nintendo to sell hardware as it would already have a built-in library.

 
Wombat utterly destroyed Cheapy when he compared Nintendo to Apple and claimed that cheaper software is all Nintendo need to do to compete with the far more expensive and technologically capable iPhone.  So much so he freaked out and started yelling like a child.

 
The full NPD results got leaked.

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Can we all agree that Shipwreck’s comparison of Nintendo club to PS plus or XBL Gold was lazy at best? Obviously you pay for both of the later and the “free game” is part of the value of the service.  However,  when I buy a PS4 game or a 360 game, you don’t get anything outside the game.  A better comparison would be Xbox Live rewards- which is even more confusing that Club Nintendo. Sorry but this was about as useful as your pictures of your local Target. 

I don’t disagree that a free game isn’t as unique as trinket but in the end, it is just a bonus item. 

FWIW- DKC on 3ds is the best version of the game. No waggle controls and a bonus level. 

 
Can we all agree that Shipwreck’s comparison of Nintendo club to PS plus or XBL Gold was lazy at best? Obviously you pay for both of the later and the “free game” is part of the value of the service. However, when I buy a PS4 game or a 360 game, you don’t get anything outside the game. A better comparison would be Xbox Live rewards- which is even more confusing that Club Nintendo. Sorry but this was about as useful as your pictures of your local Target.

I don’t disagree that a free game isn’t as unique as trinket but in the end, it is just a bonus item.

FWIW- DKC on 3ds is the best version of the game. No waggle controls and a bonus level.
I agree. . . also Shipwreck only mentioned the games that were offered for Gold Tier Club Nintendo members.

FYI: I would take ANY free game over a plastic toy any day (I am not 7 years old).

 
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Good to have shipwreck back!  The shows are always better when you guys actually dig into the conversations i.e. sales/equipment/marketing ect, even if the small bickering ensues. 

Every CAGCAST needs more hotdog lusting. :D/

Hit me with a Super Combo Man code!

 
Great show as always. Just wish I knew Ship was going to be in Aurora and at the Roundhouse. I would've bought a round for sure... Or at least recommended where to go on a beer tour in the area.
 
Holy crap. I don't generally agree with Wombat, but Cheapy almost made me stop listening to the podcast. Wombat challenged his assertion about Nintendo, and his response was to resort to ad hominem. It's possible to have a logical discussion without resorting to yelling, "What are you even talking about dude?!?!"
 
Great show as always guys! Speaking of Korean movies, I'd like to make a suggestion for watch this bitches! Check out The Man From Nowhere. Cheapy I think you'd love it. Try and see if it's by you on Netflix. For the rest of the CAG community you can watch free via a site called DramaFever in the movies section. I manage the movies content and I'll be premiering a bunch of exclusive movies from Asia this summer. So if the community likes, I'll set up a thread and let you all know what's coming out. Hope you like the flick. Also Shipwreck, I'd love a code for Super Combo Man!

 
Great show. But I gotta say that you guys didn't understand what Rage Goblin was getting at with Evolve. He was litteraly referring to real sports and giving perks in real life would be an unfair advantage. I have to agree that perks in competitive mulitplayer games somewhat tarnishes the experience for me. Though I never really saw left 4 dead as a hardcore competitive game.

 
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I haven't had much interest in Nintendo platforms in recent years, so I'm not really speaking about this with any good authority, but I'd rather have game downloads as Club Nintendo rewards than a character statue or poster or things like that. I've been trying to get that sort of stuff out of my possession and life and simplify more. Of course the selection of games this time around seems pretty weak so even that isn't very enticing.

Also, I'm in it for Super Comboman.

 
I agree with Cheapy on Nintendo as a whole, but I have to side with Wombat on the whole 3DS discussion.  Cheapy brought the 3DS discussion to the table by saying "Look how slow they are to adapt to mobile games...they're still doing the same old thing with the 3DS" (later in the discussion he tries to back out of the discussion by yelling, "I'm not talking about the console, I'm talking about the company!").  "They're not doing as well as Apple" is a true statement, but Cheapy's only solution is cheaper software.  I agree that competing with phone based games on price point might improve things to a degree it still doesn't change the fact that the 3DS is a dedicated gaming device which most people are not going to want to carry around in addition to their phone.

The mobile gaming market is very different than it was when the DS was introduced.  Smart phones have become much more affordable and mobile games have progressed to the point where it makes sense for more people to pass on a dedicated gaming device.  In this environment the 3DS has no chance to come close to DS or Apple sales figures.

 
I agree with Cheapy on Nintendo as a whole, but I have to side with Wombat on the whole 3DS discussion. Cheapy brought the 3DS discussion to the table by saying "Look how slow they are to adapt to mobile games...they're still doing the same old thing with the 3DS" (later in the discussion he tries to back out of the discussion by yelling, "I'm not talking about the console, I'm talking about the company!"). "They're not doing as well as Apple" is a true statement, but Cheapy's only solution is cheaper software. I agree that competing with phone based games on price point might improve things to a degree it still doesn't change the fact that the 3DS is a dedicated gaming device which most people are not going to want to carry around in addition to their phone.

The mobile gaming market is very different than it was when the DS was introduced. Smart phones have become much more affordable and mobile games have progressed to the point where it makes sense for more people to pass on a dedicated gaming device. In this environment the 3DS has no chance to come close to DS or Apple sales figures.
BUMP!

 
I'd love a code for Supercombo Man.

That's a lot of gummi bears by the way. Shipwreck, have you sorted them by flavor or just eat them mixed up? One of my co-workers sorts them and it looked very tempting.

 
Yeah, I never liked that Cheapy's default answer to "What can Nintendo do in the handheld business?" is 'Be more like Apple'. It's not the same situation, because I wouldn't say that your typical iOS game and Nintendo game are comparable in terms of content. A full-fledged Pokemon game wouldn't sell for $5-$10.

Anyway, this is something I drew back in the day, and it's surprisingly still relevant:

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I agreed with Wombat a couple of times.  I think he was right to call out Cheapy for the common Nintendo failed to adapt comment.  Nintendo has a lot of areas Cheapy could have used, but comparing them to Apple's iPhone is problematic for all the reasons Wombat pointed out. 

I think Wombat hit upon a great idea with selling the Kinect stand alone.  Microsoft has undersold the Xbox Fitness side of their business from the start.  Bundling a Kinect standalone with an additional year of Xbox Fitness could move a lot of units.  I am afraid that Phil Spencer/Microsoft does not have that kind of vision anymore.

 
I'm pretty disappointed that you didn't at least use a crappy techno remix of the Oasis song for the intro. Come on now.

People are saying that Cheapy was wrong in the 3DS argument, and while I don't necessarily agree with his ideas, I think Wombat *was* misunderstanding him. Wombat kept trying to say that having e-mail, phone etc on the 3DS is dumb, whereas I gathered that Cheapy was solely talking about game prices.

That guy who was talking about LoL and CoD being casual in the Evolve CAGbag topic was surely joking. He was either joking, or he doesn't like those games. People who dislike a particular competitive game just love to "insult" it by calling it casual.

I bought a 3DS and two games this year (ACNL on sale and Pokémon on its launch day), and apparently I was still 30 coins away from Gold. I don't care, but that's kind of lame. I like how it tells me "you can do it! you can reach elite status!" It's like, "yeah! I can spend more money! Woo!"

 
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Ship, everyone knows that Haribo is the best brand of gummi bears, hands down. 

Super Combo Man code would be nice too!

 
I like that Cheapy called Abyss Odyssey a "Metrovania" game.

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo sold about 500 million consoles last generation, so expecting them to do the same or better this gen after the performance of Wii U and Vita so far is completely unrealistic. I didn't really understand what Cheapy's point on Nintendo being slow to adapt was since it seemed like he didn't explain it well at all that just let Wombat rip him for changing the focus midway through that discussion. Take a deep breath and rethink what your point was, Cheapy, and let's try it again.

I completely agree with the point that Wombat was making that a smartphone is a secondary gaming device where I'll play the real things (3DS/Vita/console/PC) when at home and completely forget my phone exists on weekends or weeknights. There are tons of cheaper games on the 3DS and Vita, though not all of those are great and not all of them are the marquee titles that tend to be talked about all of the time. Nintendo needs to be more progressive with the eShop not only on pricing, but with sales and promotions because the same bad games go on sale all of the time and good/great titles are much more rare. However, I'd say that Nintendo makes some really progressive moves like releasing smaller Picross games at $6 each instead of one bigger game for $20 and there are others like the way Rusty's Real Deal Baseball and SteelDiver Sub Wars are handled in regards to F2P-style content.

I may not have been a Club Nintendo member for long enough to remember when they had worthwhile Platinum/Gold rewards, but the one physical reward I got was a dumb little calendar that takes them six months to get to me and is kind of useless in this day and age. I grabbed one of the 3DS eShop games from last year's offerings and then Game & Wario this year, which was good for me. The one issue I had is that they offered cheap Virtual Console games, $10-$15 eShop games, and then one retail title for Wii U and 3DS, so most are going for the most expensive games to get the most bang for their buck. For $25, Shipwreck can get a 32 GB SD card and never have to think about storage space again with ~200k blocks to work with and it's easy to move your things to a new card.

Comparing Club Nintendo to PS+ and Games with Gold and free-to-play games on iOS doesn't make any sense at all. Compare it to Sony and Xbox's rewards programs which don't offer up game codes for fairly cheap and don't offer up neat little things like posters, 3DS pouches, 3DS card storage cases, and things like that. They even have the Digital Deluxe Promotion that offers a $5 code in return for every $50 spent on the Wii U eShop, which I can tell you is much faster than what Sony and Microsoft offer on their ends.

There is a reason why companies have to follow through with their Kickstarter promises, which is their word/reputation is on the line, so their fans that backed their project now have no reason to support them anymore along with anybody that is following the story that is disgusted by their shitty response to the situation. Legal recourse is one thing, but disrespecting their loyal audience is an easy way to ruin the good thing they have going for them as they head into this weird era where they're asking for a cut of a game's sales in exchange for making a video of their game.

Microsoft could just offer voice control of the UI with the headset plugged into the controller like Sony offers for PS4.

 
Last weeks show should've been entitled "The Top Analyst Special".  With all the discussion about console sales, the laundry list of  Nintendo related issues, and unfulfilled Kickstarters it was business time on CAG.  You're not legally required to release a show every week, but I'm glad you do!

Wouldn't mind a Super Comboman code either.

 
Please Understand.  I like the chill feeling of the CheapyD/Wombat episodes, but I kind of missed the headbutting that mysteriously happens between when Shipwreck's on too.  He's the gasoline to their fire.  That sounded less sexually charged in my head, but I've already committed to it.

Also: I didn't realize Club Nintendo members got a yearly freebie, but I actually don't want any of those.  Looks like you're staying in the drawer, 3DS.

 
Every time mobile gaming is brought up on the CAGcast, it devolves into Cheapy saying everyone just needs to be Apple. That's completely changing the target audience, and asking a business to be something it's not. Seems like he doesn't realize he's just not someone who needs/wants an actual mobile gaming device, and can't fathom that anyone actually does. Wombat seemed pretty spot on with how he was approaching the discussion.
 
CAG #373

1:00 Tai's summer homework
5:00 Gummi Bears and Aurora, IL
12:00 Show Feedback:
12:30 - Saved By the Bell
14:30 Watch This
15:00 - Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
16:43 - Snowpiercer
17:45 New Releases
17:45 - Abyss Odyssey
20:30 - Super Comboman
22:15 - Destiny Beta
26:30 NPD's
31:15 Sony decided on the $399 price before E3
33:00 PS4 sales in Japan
37:00 MS layoffs
40:45 Shovel Knight
43:45 Club Nintendo Platinum Award
47:45 Nintendo's old culture
54:00 Best Buy 3DS sale
56:00 Divinity Original Sin
59:00 Yogscast
1:05:00 Hearthstone expansion
1:07:30 Evolve, character persistence, and other games
1:11:30 International Four (Dota?)
1:13:45 Kinect standalone sales
1:22:00 Podcasting equipment
 
Cheapy - can you buy those plants in Japan? If so, just let it die and buy a new one at the end of the summer.

Cheapy and wombat were both partially right about Nintendo, which illustrates why they are in a difficult position now. Nintendo is slow to adapt but they also can't abandon their markets (portable and whatever you want to call Wii's market. I'm not going to jump into that war). But they fucked themselves over by narrowing their focus over the years and now they don't have the other markets/demographics to rely on as backup.

Shipwreck wins the podcast MVP reward this week for trying to be the reconciliatory kid when Mom & Dad are fightng.
 
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I just pictured Shipwreck sitting in his chair with his finger over a button that says "kazoo" on it.

 
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Hey guys, I haven't heard you talk about the Nvidia Shield in awhile. Cheapy or Ship have you used it recently or is it gathering dust? I have a passing interest in this oddity. I also suspect that Wombat will be on the wrong side of history in relation to Evolve. Sometimes he under develops some theory and blindly fights to the death over it as demonstrated last episode. I still love you though, Wombat.

 
Fun show, if not confusing for a while. I have a couple of notes.

#1 - "Kazoo" needs to come back. 

#2 - Cheapy and Wombat are both horrifically wrong..... about NYC Hot Dogs! My goodness, New York has some great food (Halal carts anyone?) but hot dogs are NOT the best. Obviously, it's a subjective position to take but in my opinion Toronto street meat is much better than New York dogs. Perhaps compared to the rest of the US, New York has the best hot dogs. 

Although I've never tried it myself word is that "Japadog" in Vancouver is also awesome.

#3 - The device argument really is a matter of lifestyle. Cheapy spends a lot of time at home so he really doesn't see the value proposition of a 3DS/Vita since he has his PC master race. Whereas for Wombat (I'm projecting here since I do a similar length of commute) there is value in a dedicated portable hardware that has in general more meat to the game. 

In so far as it relates to Nintendo's business, I tend to think that unless you're a shareholder/perspective shareholder the net income position of the company only matters if it affects your gaming. Otherwise, it's a useless exercise. 

 
I love the show.  Keep up the good work.  It really makes my long commute more enjoyable.  The intro to show #371 is still my favorite thing ever.

 
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