Obamacare architect calls Americans too stupid?

E

egofed

CAGiversary!
http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/11/obamacare-architect-gruber-i-regret-calling-american-people-stupid/

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that,” said Gruber in the video.




 



 








“In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass… Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not,” Gruber said then.

Gruber is an MIT professor and was a top Obama administration consultant during the writing of Obamacare.

Most transparent admin ever? Elitist much? Will of the people? And the Constitutionality of the whole thing was defended by ACTUALLY fighting that it is indeed a tax.  Then the Dems are so incompetent that they wrote the thing with the wrong language so the mandate may still be deemed illegal. Way to go douchebags.....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/12/obamacares-jonathan-gruber-caught-on-second-tape-c/

Hahahahaahahahahhahaaaa.....

 
The mandate is legal and constitutional.  What's in question now is whether federal subsidies can be given to residents of states without state-run exchanges.  Some bad legislative writing there to be sure, though.

The rest of it gets a shrug from me.  Essentially, "We played politics during the passage of this bill that was seeped in politics from all sides".  Um, ok.  Well, that was certainly be the first and last time that's ever happened.

 
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So you guys are cool with the gov't saying one thing and doing another, and basically admitting to "fudging" the facts as long as the agenda gets passed? Do only the Democrats escape your vitriol when conducting business this way? Hey! Kool-Aid! Oh yeah! :D/ Obama promised transparency.....

 
If Americans were so smart, they would've voted Congress out of power with a 14% approval rating. But we got 95% of incumbents still in power. We do deserve Obamacare, considering we're too stupid to understand the benefits of single payer and fix its problems as well.

 
UncleBob said:
It's easier than actually coming up with a real defense or admitting when something/someone is wrong. It's okay though, I've got big shoulders and can take it.
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At a boy champ, way to keep your head held high even though you lost your job. Don't worry sport, things'll turn around.
 
mrsilkunderwear said:
I don't think he received his unemployment check this month.
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I think your reply was lost on him. :D

Either way, once again, the usual suspects are dragging a thread off topic and trying to turn it into a round of insults and name calling.

I'm sure some folks will cross this off as soon as they see the source, but this was a good piece on the actual subject at hand...
http://www.voicesofliberty.com/audio/lack-of-transparency-helped-obamacare-says-program-architect/
 
I don't buy "teh hypocrite" argument on both side. People support bills they like and generally don't care how they get passed.

I'm far more interested in the results anyway. I'll take the results of ACA over the results of the Iraq War any day.

I'm sure politicians of all stripes and pretty much every person I know has said "people are stupid" or something to that effect.

Bob I object to your link because it is behind a pay (or premium) wall.
 
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UncleBob said:
I think your reply was lost on him. :D

Either way, once again, the usual suspects are dragging a thread off topic and trying to turn it into a round of insults and name calling.

I'm sure some folks will cross this off as soon as they see the source, but this was a good piece on the actual subject at hand...
http://www.voicesofliberty.com/audio/lack-of-transparency-helped-obamacare-says-program-architect/
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That is what happens when you encounter a person who is unable to defend his points in politics. Obviously I have already suffered that fat at the hands of pillsbury.

 
usickenme said:
I don't buy "teh hypocrite" argument on both side. People support bills they like and generally don't care how they get passed.
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For some, it's okay. And it's perfectly understandable. "Politics as usual" and all that. I'm not a fan though.

Bob I object to your link because it is behind a pay (or premium) wall.
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Some folks like to get paid for their work. What can I say?
 
UncleBob said:
For some, it's okay. And it's perfectly understandable. "Politics as usual" and all that. I'm not a fan though.

Some folks like to get paid for their work. What can I say?
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.

It's not even politics as usual...people support what they like. It's no great mystery.

Don't mind paying for some but I think I've paid Ron Paul enough...way to douche up your response, tho
 
It's not a dig - just a statement of facts. I don't negate any website simply because they charge for their content - and, in fact, can see more sites going towards that as more folks start using adblocking software.
 
Paywall locked.  I have no idea who Burke Beu is anyway or why I'd put any special weight on his or her opinion.
 
Edit: Little Googling eventually suggested that she (?) is or was a legislative analyst for the "Association of periOperative Registered Nurses".

 
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Perhaps its nice to hear an opinion of someone else on a popular issue. I mean why put special weight on any of our opinions unless we are interested in hearing what the other side has to offer. 

 
UncleBob said:
It's not a dig - just a statement of facts. I don't negate any website simply because they charge for their content - and, in fact, can see more sites going towards that as more folks start using adblocking software.
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I agree with this. My local newspaper has gone to a you can read 10 articles total before they hit you with the pay wall.

They do have to pay for their costs, so it's not a huge deal, the readership has gone down a lot in the past 8 years. I used to subscribe to the evening paper, then went to weekends only, then Sunday only...now I just read Dilbert online and read the paper online.

 
egofed said:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/nov/13/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-says-she-doesnt-know-who-jonathan-gru/

Pelosi is either senile, a liar who is too stupid to realize that she is always on tape, or massively incompetent.
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You know, I'd actually give this to Pelosi. Regardless of her political intents, I'd say she probably had very little involvement with the creation of the bill, little involvement with those who did and, in the example given, was probably reading a speech prepared by someone else with little comprehension of what she was actually reading.

I'm not saying this makes her a good person (or someone I'd vote for, if given the chance), but she's a politician. She was told by her party to pass the bill, so she worked to pass the bill.
 
Msut77 said:
Can anyone explain why anyone shold care?
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I care because:

a) Obamacare is working at bringing down insurance premiums and increasing the number of insured Americans

b) I am against Obamacare because I am not allowed to like things that Democrats do, even if it benefits Americans and reduces costs

c) I can't argue against Obamacare on its merits.

Also because this is, like, literally the only fucking thing on the news this week, so it must be important.

 
You should care because it reveals that the Democratic Party uses tactics to obscure their agenda from the public, and downright lies when it appears they are caught. I expect more from our elected representatives. Were you mad when you thought Bush lied to you? I have stated repeatedly that I am against any policy that forces people to buy a product from a private business. Should they force people to buy gym memberships for health? Obamacare has plenty of flaws to argue against. Keeping your doctor, saving $1200 per family, the whole website launch, actual costs and sustainability..... :roll:

You guys are cool with Executive Action regarding immigration?

 
UncleBob said:
You know, I'd actually give this to Pelosi. Regardless of her political intents, I'd say she probably had very little involvement with the creation of the bill, little involvement with those who did and, in the example given, was probably reading a speech prepared by someone else with little comprehension of what she was actually reading.

I'm not saying this makes her a good person (or someone I'd vote for, if given the chance), but she's a politician. She was told by her party to pass the bill, so she worked to pass the bill.
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I hear you, but if she is going to speak against Gruber, don't you think she should be sure of her facts first?

 
That's quite the grudge you hold, son.

For what it's worth, I gave up that battle after the President embraced the term.

But if this is *really* what you want to argue about, well - I suppose that's a good indicator why I had you on ignore. Sorry that your only chance to get out of that immediately reinforced why you're there.

See you next time I take a CAG sabbatical and come back months later.

 
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Bob, you lucky, lucky guy. Now I gotta talk with Myke all by myself.... :wall:

I want the Legislative branch of gov't to make laws. Simple enough, huh? If they are slow, so be it. Maybe it means we will not get a rushed, flawed piece of legislation that we have to pass to know what is in it...The President wants only his version, so you could call him an obstructionist if you want. He actually was a major cause for the last gov't shutdown. Congress had passed a funding bill that he didn't like. They were using the power of the purse as denoted by the Constitution. Checks and balances....I do not want to reward people who broke our laws with amnesty. I do want a secure border. I firmly believe that a generous welfare system and open borders are a bad combination.

 
mykevermin said:
For what it's worth, I gave up that battle after the President embraced the term.
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Perhaps the President embraced the term because he's an ideologue who is concerned with political victory, and not with reforming health care?

Or, perhaps, you simply have a double standard.

Sorry that your only chance to get out of that immediately reinforced why you're there.
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I'm not.
 
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egofed said:
I want the Legislative branch of gov't to make laws. Simple enough, huh?
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Simple enough so as to be a statement that nobody can reasonably disagree with, correct. :)

Obama urging Congress to get a bill on his desk or he'll take EA dates back to at least the middle of this year (6 months is not very long in the modern political era, but it's ample time to get a bill done if Congress is serious). He's making good on his promise, which is more than I can say for Congress (who has paid lip service for years (decades?) to getting immigration reform done, but done nothing of the sort). Obama has also made it crystal clear, time and time again, that the moment he gets a bill on his desk from Congress, he'll sign it and it will supercede the EA he's preparing.

So I suppose it comes down to who you think is bluffing. Congressional Republicans have made HUGE political gains from obstructing governance the last few years - they do nothing, Obama and Democrats take the heat, and they regain power. If you think that's going to change before 2016 - egofed, I have not been around in awhile, I know you're smarter than that. Republicans can't do anything about immigration because (a) doing so will alienate the nonwhite base they desperately need to attract to remain relevant in the coming decades and (b) will placate the rabble-rousing white masses (what's to be outraged about anymore).

Immigration reform is one of the Republicans' wheelhouse carrots to dangle in front of voters to get them to polls. That they've done nothing thus far (when they sure could have in the mid-Bush administration, when they could have under Clinton circa the 1994 Newt Gingrich Contract With America) says volumes to me.

Trusting Republicans with immigration is trusting Lucy will hold the football for Charlie Brown this time.

 
It was both hilarious and sad when Bohner was whining about the Prez playing with fire if he goes ahead with immigration reform, as if Congress was going to get anything done.

Besides, we really are stupid if we couldn't figure out how a government funded program works, with taxpayer money. Obamacare is funded with the same money as we give to Congressional Handouts, that stupid helicopter plane, and so many other pork projects.

 
mykevermin said:
I am more than comfortable with the conditions Obama has laid out regarding the use of EA to pass immigration reform.

You are not? Then what do you prefer happen?
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That is a bunch of bull and you know it. If it was reversed and a Republican was shoving something down your throat you were against you would be screaming bloody murder.

You know what is SUPPOSED to happen. The officials that the PEOPLE elected are the ones who are supposed to decide happens. Not Obama and his new theory of "no separation of powers".

 
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detectiveconan16 said:
It was both hilarious and sad when Bohner was whining about the Prez playing with fire if he goes ahead with immigration reform, as if Congress was going to get anything done.

Besides, we really are stupid if we couldn't figure out how a government funded program works, with taxpayer money. Obamacare is funded with the same money as we give to Congressional Handouts, that stupid helicopter plane, and so many other pork projects.
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No. People really are stupid for electing Obama twice. Gruber got that part right.

 
RPGNinja said:
That is a bunch of bull and you know it. If it was reversed and a Republican was shoving something down your throat you were against you would be screaming bloody murder.

You know what is SUPPOSED to happen. The officials that the PEOPLE elected are the ones who are supposed to decide happens. Not Obama and his new theory of "no separation of powers".
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You evidently have overlooked the entire history of a Republican Congress (well, House and a tough-to-get-beyond-a-filibuster Democrat-controlled Senate) and Obama. It's as if the last 6 years have not existed for you at all.

Ed Kilgore kills it: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_11/wait_wait052971.php

What is SUPPOSED to happen is that Congress passes legislation. They have not. You see the win-win situation of this (Congress does nothing, Obama gets blamed, Republicans look better because Obama looks like a lame duck to a public who doesn't, like you, pay attention to what Congress actually does - or doesn't do), and you seem to have the gall to think that this is a secret that I'm not aware of. You ain't savvy, kid.

 
mykevermin said:
You evidently have overlooked the entire history of a Republican Congress (well, House and a tough-to-get-beyond-a-filibuster Democrat-controlled Senate) and Obama. It's as if the last 6 years have not existed for you at all.

Ed Kilgore kills it: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_11/wait_wait052971.php

What is SUPPOSED to happen is that Congress passes legislation. They have not. You see the win-win situation of this (Congress does nothing, Obama gets blamed, Republicans look better because Obama looks like a lame duck to a public who doesn't, like you, pay attention to what Congress actually does - or doesn't do), and you seem to have the gall to think that this is a secret that I'm not aware of. You ain't savvy, kid.
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Did you ignore the first 2 years of his term? He had full majority of BOTH houses. He didn't get any of the REAL big legislation passed.

Now you wanna turn around and blame Republicans when he couldn't even get what he wanted passed through a Democrat controlled Congress? You really are delusional and a shill for Obama.

I love it though it just shows how much Obama is diving the party and the more it happens the merrier.

Obama isn't even willing to compromise with Republicans he would rather just shove everything down the American people's throats like Obamacare which thanks to Gruber we knew was a BIG LIE all along but you guys were the real idiots who never saw that.

Obama now wants to use executive orders to shove amnesty down our throats too for additional Democrat votes. He could care less about what actually happens to them or this country.

Instead of pretending to be savvy try to get informed first.

 
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