CAGcast #387: Pass on the Season Pass

CheapyD

CheapyD

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The gang talks Halo: Master Chief Collection, Lego Batman 3, Assassin’s Creed Unity, Singstar, Nintendo, and so much more!
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https://audioboom.com/boos/2646589-cagcast-387-pass-on-the-season-pass
 

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro - Outro
 
Please submit your show questions via CAGbag or Twitter.

I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

 
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Good beginning to the show about Nintendo. Here's what the Wii U's problem is:

1)The GamePad: It's cool but not good as a base controller for the system. Nintendo should have used the Pro Controller (with a headset jack) as the main controller and maybe offered another bundle with a Pro Controller and GamePad. This could have brought the console cost down as well.

2)Not powerful enough: it's a third party world and the lack of power on the Wii U means the system can't have the biggest games of the holiday (Dragon Age, Far Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty) on the system. That's why system parity is very important. The PS4 and Xbone are basically similar except for exclusives. If the Wii U was more powerful, it could have all of those third party games plus the Nintendo exclusives, which would at least give the console a fighting chance against the PS4 and Xbone.

3)Online service: The Wii U feels like an offline console. It's hard to send messages to people or even join an online game. Digital games are locked to the console. There aren't any achievements or trophies (system wide). The service is a few steps behind the other consoles.

 
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Guys, I love the show but it's getting kind of tortuous listening to you talk about Nintendo.  You're just not into their games, and that's perfectly fine.  But please stop trying to justify opinions that don't really require justification.

Shipwreck finally expressed what I have thought for awhile:  you guys don't really object to derivitive games, you just want derivitive Western-developed games with the latest graphics engines instead of Japanese ones.  What else explains your interest in Amazing Spiderman 2 and LEGO Batman 3?

 
Retro Gamer said:
Good beginning to the show about Nintendo. Here's what the Wii U's problem is:

1)The GamePad: It's cool but not good as a base controller for the system. Nintendo should have used the Pro Controller (with a headset jack) as the main controller and maybe offered another bundle with a Pro Controller and GamePad. This could have brought the console cost down as well.

2)Not powerful enough: it's a third party world and the lack of power on the Wii U means the system can't have the biggest games of the holiday (Dragon Age, Far Cry 4, Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty) on the system. That's why system parity is very important. The PS4 and Xbone are basically similar except for exclusives. If the Wii U was more powerful, it could have all of those third party games plus the Nintendo exclusives, which would at least give the console a fighting chance against the PS4 and Xbone.

3)Online service: The Wii U feels like an offline console. It's hard to send messages to people or even join an online game. Digital games are locked to the console. There aren't any achievements or trophies (system wide). The service is a few steps behind the other consoles.
Click to expand...
You nailed it. And building off the online services point, most people have huge friends lists from XBOX 360 and PS3 that transfer right over to the XBOX One and PS4. And why Nintendo refused to have any sort unified trophy/achievement system is beyond me. Sony was late to the party, but got on board with trophies relatively quickly and it has been a boon. There is basically no reason to play third party cross platform games on the Wii U due to lack luster online and lack of achievements / trophies.

 
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Honestly I think Nintendo could do just fine without achievements (people still care?) and online gaming. It's The other parts of the service are that don't look good compared to the others. Nintendo is the only games provider that doesn't tie games to just an account. That's a big problem.

Price is also getting to be a factor
 
Good show, but I think you guys should stop talking about Smash Bros. Or at least do some more research, you guys state way too many things that are incorrect.

 
I signed up for the amiibo Loot Crate notification email list, as I'm also curious to hear WHY this is a better deal than just buying them from another retail outlet.

 
Also may have to take the plunge into Wii U this holiday season. Best Buy has the 32GB Wii U bundled with Super Mario 3D World, NintendoLand, Super Smash Bros for Wii U and Donkey Kong Country Tropical for $359.97. Boom!

 
I would love to know the behind the scenes of the Xbox One launch. Dean Takahashi wrote two really great books about the making of the original Xbox and the Xbox 360. I don't think he's doing one for Xbox One but somebody should. Don Mattrick would be mostly responsible, I think.
 
The updated cut scenes for Halo 2 Anniversary added some tie-ins with Agent Locke for Halo 5: Guardians.
 
Nintendo makes games with very specific genres and if you don't want to play those genres then their consoles aren't for you. They don't make shooters, Western RPGs, sports, or open-world games which are the major AAA genres. Couple that with bad online service and lower power specs those are probably the reason you and a lot of people aren't very interested in the Wii U. This doesn't include me, the Wii U has some of my favorite games of this year.

 
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I still don't understand how Microsoft could mess up the Xbone launch so badly. Common sense would have told them NOT to release a system $100 more and a week later than the PS4. Just look at what happened to Saturn. They should have released a $399 stand alone version as well as the $499 complete package. It's not like there were many Kinect games at launch (or now) anyway.

 
Now that you are leaving Japan Cheapyd I think we need you to close this chapter of the cagcast for all of us and find out once and for all what happen to the naked pizza guy. You got two more episodes left I think its your duty (heh duty) to find out. 

 
Does anyone else agree that someone needs to get a Wii U and play some games? It's not asking much for one of the members of the show to buy and play Wii U games. To have all three of them against the Wii U and not even playing any games, given the success of Cheap Ass Gamer and the CAGcast (and the outpouring from NIntendo fans here) is not the right thing for them to do. I'd like to know Wombat's opinion of the Wii U OS, eShop, and games. Or maybe, gasp, their kids' opinion.

Should CAGs start a Wii U fund so they can get a bundle on Black Friday? I'll throw in a nickel.

 
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Bring out that CAG app for the Windows Phone elite, pronto! Fix that 12/31/1600 date problem too. I have to scroll all the way to the end of the page to find the latest show.

 
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Good show as always, on the topic of Nintendo...

You can't deny that the games on the Wii U aren't good. Almost all first party games review very highly and are held in high regard. But thats not the problem with Nintendo or the Wii U..

I'll break it down to bullet points.

Unity - theres no unity or shared experience with the Wii U and 3DS. From my knowledge they are kept for the most part completely separate which in my opinion is bad. They need to work together. You can connect them to each other; visit each others stores, download stuff, access all your friends, messages and other social aspects. Have functionality with games.

Third party is lacking. It either gets hardly nothing or last gen games get ported. 

The whole console just seems lacking compared to Xbox One and PS4 in the "online" aspects. You can watch TV, people playing their games on twitch or ustream, even partying up and connecting to friends. It just seems like an offline console. People need more than just playing games on their consoles now. Its just the way the industry has moved.

People seem to love achievements and trophies and Nintendo have nothing. Say each game has a stamp card in which you collect stamps (i.e. achievements) for doing stuff. "Hey I finally got the stamp for collecting all the gold stars in Mario!" Share to your Miiverse, friends comment and chat about how they're struggling or whatever. People would like that shit. Nintendo seems good with little easter eggs and hidden stuff in their games. Incorporate them with achievements would be a good idea. Collect stamps to unlock bonus stages or in-game stuff or whatever.

The digital downloads and things being tied to system apposed to your online ID seems crazy to me..You can't own or use a second Wii U or 3DS because none of your stuff transfers across easily. I am not sure on the exact procedure but I am sure its not as easy as buying a new PS4, Vita or Xbox ,signing in and just re-downloading your stuff.

Also Cheapy, I was wondering how much better off will you be back in NY in terms of monthly salary from CAG? That conversion rate must've taken a huge sum of money over the years from you.

 
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Retro Gamer said:
Does anyone else agree that someone needs to get a Wii U and play some games? It's not asking much for one of the members of the show to buy and play Wii U games. To have all three of them against the Wii U and not even playing any games, given the success of Cheap Ass Gamer and the CAGcast (and the outpouring from NIntendo fans here) is not the right thing for them to do. I'd like to know Wombat's opinion of the Wii U OS, eShop, and games. Or maybe, gasp, their kids' opinion.

Should CAGs start a Wii U fund so they can get a bundle on Black Friday? I'll throw in a nickel.
Click to expand...
I've had a WiiU since launch.

 
Regarding Nintendo: I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I'm listening to the audiobook of Console Wars (which has a host of problems, but that's another rant) and thinking back to when I stopped caring about Nintendo. I'm about the same age as you guys and I've literally grown up with gaming (I go back to the Magnavox Odyssey and it's crazy TV overlays and play money. I'm that old.) For me, the N64 was the last Nintendo console I cared about. The Gamecube never interested me. I bought my wife a Wii and, like most of them, it sat gathering dust once the newness wore off. I haven't stepped in the next (or is it current now?) gen arena yet, but the Wii U isn't even on my radar.

In my humble opinion, I think it's that Nintendo is a very headstrong and insular company. Rather than changing with tastes and adapting to the times, they have held to a "my way or the highway" attitude that if you're onboard with is great, but if you're not, there's nothing for you there. I've gotten to a point where I'm done saving the princess and have no desire to catch one, let alone them all. I know someone is going to come back and tell me how outdated that perception of Nintendo is. That's fine, but there is little arguing that they are a company very much resting on their laurels. They may try to bring out a game or two that doesn't fit the Nintendo mold, but these are usually the exceptions, not the rules. 

So, I guess my TLDR version is, Nintendo still operates like it's 1991 and I've moved on, which I think is kind of what Cheapy was saying. Not trying to start a fanboy war (I'm way too old for that shit.) Just my two cents.

 
Retro Gamer said:
I still don't understand how Microsoft could mess up the Xbone launch so badly. Common sense would have told them NOT to release a system $100 more and a week later than the PS4.
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They believed their new Kinect was awesome and would be worth $100 to consumers even without any games that make use of it. They were wrong.

 
Cheapy: the songs that you mentioned are free on SingStar are likely songs that you have purchased in the past, and are therefore free for you to download.

That being said, the wife and I had a blast singing with our respective iPhones, and well worth the $15 I spent on buying some songs we both like.
 
Retro Gamer said:
I still don't understand how Microsoft could mess up the Xbone launch so badly. Common sense would have told them NOT to release a system $100 more and a week later than the PS4. Just look at what happened to Saturn. They should have released a $399 stand alone version as well as the $499 complete package. It's not like there were many Kinect games at launch (or now) anyway.
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Hubris. I suspect they truly and honestly thought they had a product that was so superior that people would line up to pay $100 more for it. They were wrong.

Edit: I see Curufinwe above posted nearly the same thing. I hadn't read down that far to see that before I posted mine. So, Curufinwe, I agree with you.

 
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thorbahn3 said:
Pax East is only sold out for Saturday as of this post. http://east.paxsite.com/

Pax South also has the same situation. http://south.paxsite.com/
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Yep, still Friday and Sunday passes available. I'm thinking of buying tickets for Sunday. Cheapy, if you make it to Boston, schedule a CAG meetup. I know there are quite a few CAGs in the area.

Oh and who won the Retro magazine subscriptions?

edit: Wombat, have you tried a calorie counting app like myfitnesspal.com? It's amazing how many calories you eat without realizing it. That app along with some exercise is how I've dropped 40 pounds in the last 3 years.

 
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Smash Bros. 3DS has surpassed over 1 million copies. But the guys were right, it probably didn't move many units because most of the customers already had a 3DS in the first place.

It was hard to listen to the guys talk about Nintendo, but they still raised a lot of valid points about what Nintendo is doing in regards to getting more people to buy their stuff. Microsoft and Sony, their bread and butter is the 18-50 male demographic, who are going to buy these very similar games, a Call of Duty, an Assassin's Creed, a Madden, no matter what and without a second thought. Nintendo desperately needs to stop being so skittish about third party developers and actually invite them into the fold.

Nintendo products are often well designed, and they work fantastic online and off. You can't say the same with Microsoft or Sony. Most people may be graphic whores, but you sure don't mind when you have to download an update every time you boot up the damned PS4/Xbox. It is just funny that we can thumb our noses at Nintendo, but somehow have the insane patience to wait for the game to load, even after 2 minutes like a freakin' PS1 game.

I am really hesitant to upgrade to the Xbox One or PS4 simply because of all the same problems that infected the last generation of consoles. Could both companies have done better in motivating their developers to gamma-test their wares? Yes. Do they really care as much as Nintendo? No, because they are more concerned about moving units than providing a stable experience where you have to throw more money at them and your stingy ISP.

 
Hey guys another fun show to listen to.  I wanted to say thanks for the entertaining podcast because I've been on a CAGcast bender for the last three or four weeks.  A little over a year ago I got really busy at work, followed by other stuff going on in my life so I book marked the CAGcast I was on and now have finally caught up all the way from back at episode #331: Pacific Ram.

Just a couple quick comments:

  • Shipwreck, congrats on your baby's birth and first birthday!  It was funny hearing you talk about taking her to see Santa at Bass Pro Shops and the depressing shell of a mall it is attached to.  I actually took my daughter to that exact same store/Santa for her first Christmas (my in-laws live in Cincy).
  • Wombat, early in my CAGcast catchup marathon you cracked a joke about how your balls looked like a chicken wing with little feather bits unplucked.  It cracked me the hell up and I think was the best joke of yours over the past year.
  • Cheapy, hope your move goes as smoothly as it can.  The episodes without you were lacking a little something.  And please stop talking about how much NHL 15 sucks.  There were a good few episodes leading up to its release where you were unenthused about it, and then about 3 episodes after its release where you just complained about.  Thankfully I don't think it was mentioned in the last two.
Keep up the good work gentlemen!

 -JSD

P.S.  I just downloaded the CAGcast app! :D

 
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kikujirobill said:
Cheapy: the songs that you mentioned are free on SingStar are likely songs that you have purchased in the past, and are therefore free for you to download.
Click to expand...
Great. Now everyone knows I paid for "It's Raining Men"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5aZJBLAu1E

 
Wombat, you are high. Sony isn't throwing a silly in-store promo. It's a big show with tons of panels, demos, a keynote, and presumably a bunch of free swag. BlizzCon is a community event. QuakeCon is a community event. Even PAX is a community event. They all charge for tickets.

 
Here's what I wrote in response to another poster in the other topic that reflects my opnion on both of the latest episodes...Sorry for the incoming walls of text.

nabor605 said:
Oh boy, what an amazingly high-quality discussion and analysis of Nintendo and the Wii U in this episode. Good call in avoiding discussing any of Nintendo's lineup of exclusive games for this holiday season and early 2015. Other topics were way more important, like Nintendo's still-in-development sleep sensor, "horse armor" Amiibos, and Nintendo's apparently terrible decision to remake a game and plunge their company into ruin and despair.

The Cagcast's distaste in Amiibos baffles me, considering they love paying for one-game-use figurines from Skylanders and Disney Infinity so much. Is it such a crime that Nintendo's Amiibos offer additional benefits, aka "horse armor", when being used in more than one game? It seems to give it additional value, in my opinion.

I also don't see how Nintendo's decision to remake a 14-year-old game immediately places them as "having no idea what they're doing" and is supposedly now their only business strategy (again let's remember we don't discuss the fact they have a lineup of new games this year and next).

Seeing the backlash from the Cagcast for Nintendo's decision to remake one game, it's a good thing Sony and Microsoft haven't released any remakes and ports for their systems, like The Last of Us, Halo 1-4, Grand Theft Auto V, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Sleeping Dogs, Escape Plan, Fez, Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, Flow, Flower, The Unfinished Swan, Injustice, Journey, Metro Redux, Minecraft, Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty, PixelJunk Shooter Ultimate, Sound Shapes, Spelunky, Tearaway, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Diablo III, Divekick, Guacamelee, and Metro: Last Light Redux. If so, it would just appear that they're trying to pad out their business calendar before their actual new first-party games can finally be released in 2015.

In the first year of release, the PS4 and XB1 had the benefit of third-parties to help fill out their release schedule as well, unlike the Wii U. Third parties always seem hesitant to support Nintendo's consoles, as their games rarely sell very well in competition to Nintendo's own games. It also doesn't help that in many cases third-party games on Nintendo platforms are stripped-down/inferior versions of the PlayStation/Xbox versions too, caused by a lack of motivation/resources from the third parties to properly develop for a market that is projected to result in poor sales anyway. Personally I see Nintendo's own high-quality games as being both a benefit for Nintendo hardware sales, and also a detriment against third-parties who fear poor sales of their own games against Nintendo's games.

I still don't agree with Cheapy's view that Nintendo needs to drop the price on the Wii U to "save" the system. The existing bundles offer value for those who are interested in Nintendo's lineup of games this holiday, and the current library of exclusive games it now has is pretty compelling for those who want more than just annual recycles of multi-platform game franchises.
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Amen!

Let's not forget, that these gimped up/stripped 3rd-party Wii U port versions that are lacking multiplayer/DLCs that every other version on every existing main platforms has that the Wii U doesn't...THEY COME OUT MONTHS LATER on the Wii U than any other version.

Ubisoft in the case of Watch Dogs are going to sell poorly because they just threw the version of the Wii U to die when it comes out, almost like trying to excuse themselves from ever porting anything to the Wii U because it's 'apparently' not selling....but it's entirely their fault!

Watch Dogs' hype has dwindled severely, because the game wasn't as promising as it seemed to be pre-release, the game ended up being mediocre, and it seems that the Wii U version will not have the DLC in any form....People will not double-dip or buy a game that came out months ago on every other console/platform and ended up being mediocre = the definition of releasing on the Wii U just to let it die...and NOT because it's on the Wii U!

The Wii U has a 'catch 22' problem, 3rd-parties want to give up on it because not enough consoles were sold because of the lack or fast dwindling support of 3rd-parties. No consoles are going to sell, if games are not released...in the case of 3rd-parties they want consoles to sell before they even start producing a game on the Wii U, that's NOT how it works and that's NOT how you get consoles to sell....This isn't a Kickstarter/Early Access where you give X amount of money, then games are promised to be made.

I just think 3rd-parties just DO NOT like Nintendo and, aside from 'maybe' not being able to compete against Nintendo's 1st-party games, their 'Family friendly' image...because I don't understand why they would not want to invest.

The market seems to be now based on 'faith' just like 'Amazon's stocks' that investors keep pumping money into Amazon, even if Amazon isn't making more than it's losing...it's like they're seeing into the far 'theoretical' future where all that investment will pay off once the 'perfect -money making in the shitloads- infrastructure' is in place...same for PS4/XOne (Sony & Microsoft consoles in general).

I feel like Nintendo, no matter what they do they will never get as much support as they want/need because their name is 'Nintendo', which is sad. Nintendo will have to bend over backwards to 3rd-parties, just like Microsoft makes 3rd-parties bend over backwards to them.

They seem to be SUPER 3rd-party friendly this time around, especially to indie-devs from what I've been seeing and hearing....but it's just not coinciding with 3rd-party reasons for unknown reasons anyway. It's like Capcom not making any Mega Man games, and canceling 3 Mega Man games, the moment Keiji Inafune left without proper explanation as to why they are not even planning to make any more or why they canceled those 3 games.

There's my 2 cents....other than the detrimental uninformed Nintendo talk. Aside from that...Good show guys, keep it up! :D/

I highly recommend Wombat & CheapyD to get a Wii U eventually and make their own informed Wii U opinions and about its games....just saying. It wouldn't hurt.

 
Just backed Retro Magazine's Kickstarter for a year of print and digital issues. Wish there was a way to get the back issues of season 1.

Can't wait to see how the flow of the CAGcast changes once Cheapy's back in the good 'ole US of A.

 
BradGrenz said:
Wombat, you are high. Sony isn't throwing a silly in-store promo. It's a big show with tons of panels, demos, a keynote, and presumably a bunch of free swag. BlizzCon is a community event. QuakeCon is a community event. Even PAX is a community event. They all charge for tickets.
Click to expand...
. Those are two conventions and an expo, not community events.
 
Catching up on some CAGcast stuff:

I like that Cheapy complains that they keep adding new content to Hearthstone as a big negative for him.

I don't think people understand what state Driveclub is actually in when they say it's completely broken because it's never been completely broken in any stretch. The online stuff didn't work out of the gate, but you could fully play all of the single-player stuff from launch. It was about a week later for me to get to use the online stuff and a few days after that to join a club, but challenges still don't seem to work.

From what I had read, the problem was with Driveclub's online code and not PSN, much to Shipwreck's chagrin, that couldn't handle the launch load of traffic despite passing the server load tests they did pre-launch. They obviously should've had a public beta via PS+ before launch to offer as close to a real test of their online code as it gets. Don't misconstrue this as me saying the game's great either. I'd love to read the post-mortem on what happened to cause the big issues that it had at launch.

I don't really get why the Majora's Mask announcement was met with such scorn when it's something Zelda fans have been asking for since the Ocarina of Time remake was released on 3DS. Making things that people want is surprisingly a bad move now. Halo: The Master Chief Collection is good, but Majora's Mask 3D is bad?

I found the response Wombat had to the PlayStation Experience thing to be funny because he can't really get over whatever type of event they want to call it to see that it's a small convention for their community with lots of demos, panels, and booths for meet and greets and merchandise. They want an event just for themselves so the spotlight is on their consoles, developers, and partners instead of being one of many at a PAX where they're not the focus. It's not that hard to see why they're doing this.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're ultimately making with the "Sony's selling so well, they don't need to release games this fall" stuff because I'd be surprised if they'd refuse to put out an additional game or two this fall if they were ready in time. I don't think they're actively looking at the games being worked on and refusing to release anything besides the two they've got because they think the sales are still good enough without them.

So what happened to the CAG app that John had been working on for the past ten years? I already have a podcast app on my phone, so I don't really need a CAGcast-specific app. Seems good for what it is though.

 
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FriskyTanuki said:
I don't really get why the Majora's Mask announcement was met with such scorn when it's something Zelda fans have been asking for since the Ocarina of Time remake was released on 3DS. Making things that people want is surprisingly a bad move now. Halo: The Master Chief Collection is good, but Majora's Mask 3D is bad?
Click to expand...
I hate Majora's Mask because Nintendo won't have a day one patch for me to download.

 
I also listen to the Completely Unnecessary Podcast with Pat the NES Punk and they praise the Wii U and Nintendo like its the second coming. Then bash XBOX One and PS4.

I'm around the same age as Cheapy, and I also grew up with Mario and Nintendo. But I have little interest in any Wii U games. Mario Kart 8 and Toad look cool though.

 
It gave me a special kind of pleasure to continue stuffing my face with Cheez-Its and guzzle down Kool-Aid while listening to Cheapy rattle off his healthy diet.

 
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Wombat said:
. Those are two conventions and an expo, not community events.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you think the difference is? All are open to the public. All have dozens of exhibitors. All are driven by community involvement. All have speakers, panels, entertainment. If you think Bethesda and Blizzard don't consider their conventions "community events" then you are very wrong. You are trying to draw a distinction where none exists.

 
I'm going all out on the low carb diet. I've had good success so far. i'll add some nuts in a few weeks, prescribed by Dr. Cheapy.

 
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Since you reposted your comment to this thread, I'll repost my response here as well (that way, maybe people will actually read it--LOL).

Kaneco said:
Here's what I wrote in response to another poster in the other topic that reflects my opnion on both of the latest episodes...Sorry for the incoming walls of text.

Amen!

Let's not forget, that these gimped up/stripped 3rd-party Wii U port versions that are lacking multiplayer/DLCs that every other version on every existing main platforms has that the Wii U doesn't...THEY COME OUT MONTHS LATER on the Wii U than any other version.

Ubisoft in the case of Watch Dogs are going to sell poorly because they just threw the version of the Wii U to die when it comes out, almost like trying to excuse themselves from ever porting anything to the Wii U because it's 'apparently' not selling....but it's entirely their fault!

Watch Dogs' hype has dwindled severely, because the game wasn't as promising as it seemed to be pre-release, the game ended up being mediocre, and it seems that the Wii U version will not have the DLC in any form....People will not double-dip or buy a game that came out months ago on every other console/platform and ended up being mediocre = the definition of releasing on the Wii U just to let it die...and NOT because it's on the Wii U!

The Wii U has a 'catch 22' problem, 3rd-parties want to give up on it because not enough consoles were sold because of the lack or fast dwindling support of 3rd-parties. No consoles are going to sell, if games are not released...in the case of 3rd-parties they want consoles to sell before they even start producing a game on the Wii U, that's NOT how it works and that's NOT how you get consoles to sell....This isn't a Kickstarter/Early Access where you give X amount of money, then games are promised to be made.

I just think 3rd-parties just DO NOT like Nintendo and, aside from 'maybe' not being able to compete against Nintendo's 1st-party games, their 'Family friendly' image...because I don't understand why they would not want to invest.

The market seems to be now based on 'faith' just like 'Amazon's stocks' that investors keep pumping money into Amazon, even if Amazon isn't making more than it's losing...it's like they're seeing into the far 'theoretical' future where all that investment will pay off once the 'perfect -money making in the shitloads- infrastructure' is in place...same for PS4/XOne (Sony & Microsoft consoles in general).

I feel like Nintendo, no matter what they do they will never get as much support as they want/need because their name is 'Nintendo', which is sad. Nintendo will have to bend over backwards to 3rd-parties, just like Microsoft makes 3rd-parties bend over backwards to them.

They seem to be SUPER 3rd-party friendly this time around, especially to indie-devs from what I've been seeing and hearing....but it's just not coinciding with 3rd-party reasons for unknown reasons anyway. It's like Capcom not making any Mega Man games, and canceling 3 Mega Man games, the moment Keiji Inafune left without proper explanation as to why they are not even planning to make any more or why they canceled those 3 games.

There's my 2 cents....other than the detrimental uninformed Nintendo talk. Aside from that...Good show guys, keep it up! :D/

I highly recommend Wombat & CheapyD to get a Wii U eventually and make their own informed Wii U opinions and about its games....just saying. It wouldn't hurt.
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Sorry, but there's nothing emotional or "unknown" about the decision for 3rd parties to not support the Wii U. Nintendo made a conscious decision last generation to take themselves out of the "console wars" and release lesser-powered systems that focus on their 1st party titles. They hoped that the pull of their 1st party franchises would be enough to sell millions. Due to the insane hype-wagon that the Wii had, their choice was somewhat vindicated with the Wii sales. Unfortunately for them, it wasn't a vindication of their decision, it was a coincidence due to the motion-gaming craze that hit people at the time (and Wii Sports).

Now, they're in a bind. They released the Wii U early to try and build support prior to the XBO and PS4 coming out, but now they are so far behind the other consoles when it comes to performance that what used to be a fairly straightforward port of a game developed for the other consoles is a challenge and things have to be cut/re-engineered to make it work. Combine that extra effort/cost with the fact that there are what, 7 million Wii U's out there (not even as many as the PS4 or XBO have after only being out a year) and consider that half of those are probably kids' consoles that parents bought because they wanted the Mario games and you have a pretty lousy sales projection for a Wii U version that takes a lot of engineering effort. On top of that, their gimmick for this generation (the gamepad) is stupid. It's not ergonomic, it's heavy, and the battery lasts like 3 hours tops. And don't get me started on Nintendo's awful online stuff. A CoD game wouldn't even be able to survive in the online environment that Nintendo forces on developers/gamers.

So, the problem is not just "everybody hates Nintendo." It's a combination of the very real decisions Nintendo continues to make and market forces that seem to be slowly indicating that those decisions are wrong. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo is still doing just fine. They're not in any danger of going Sega, but honestly, if they did, we would be in a lot simpler and more interesting world. Can you imagine if Nintendo could bring all their R&D and marketing budget to bear on making great software instead of fumbling around in the hardware market?

Full disclosure: I used to LOVE Nintendo. At this point in my life, I just feel like I've grown out of them. I'd still play Mario games because I love platformers, but none of the other stuff appeals to me, I just don't have space for another console, places to store all the peripheral crap like the Gamepad that needs charged all the time, and time to play enough games to make it worthwhile. I don't even play my DS anymore--it just sits in a drawer, lonely. I'm not just bashing Nintendo, there is a very real path that led to them being where they are and it seems a lot of their fans can't see that and just see criticism as blind bashing. It's not bashing if it's true.

 
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FriskyTanuki said:
I don't really get why the Majora's Mask announcement was met with such scorn when it's something Zelda fans have been asking for since the Ocarina of Time remake was released on 3DS. Making things that people want is surprisingly a bad move now. Halo: The Master Chief Collection is good, but Majora's Mask 3D is bad?

I found the response Wombat had to the PlayStation Experience thing to be funny because he can't really get over whatever type of event they want to call it to see that it's a small convention for their community with lots of demos, panels, and booths for meet and greets and merchandise. They want an event just for themselves so the spotlight is on their consoles, developers, and partners instead of being one of many at a PAX where they're not the focus. It's not that hard to see why they're doing this.
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Majora's Mask was a pretty polarizing game at the time. People loved it (my camp) or hated it (crazy people). I just don't get excited by Nintendo rereleasing all these older games. It feels desperate to me. I wasn't really excited about the Halo rerelease either, but to their credit, at least they completely rebuilt all the cutscenes and made them look amazing (and make more sense). Maybe they did the same with MM? I doubt it, though, since it's a rerelease on the 3DS, not the current gen home system.

I agree with several here that Wombat is just looking for a reason to hate on the PSX thing. Who cares what you call it--it's no different than Blizzard and others doing the same. If Sony wants to try something different to see if it works and people want to spend their money to go, more power to them. I don't think it'll be a wild success, but who knows. If they have a 5-year plan and expect to lose money on it for a while to build support, it could work down the road.

 
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KingWulfgar said:
Majora's Mask was a pretty polarizing game at the time. People loved it (my camp) or hated it (crazy people). I just don't get excited by Nintendo rereleasing all these older games. It feels desperate to me. I wasn't really excited about the Halo rerelease either, but to their credit, at least they completely rebuilt all the cutscenes and made them look amazing (and make more sense). Maybe they did the same with MM? I doubt it, though, since it's a rerelease on the 3DS, not the current gen home system.
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Like with Ocarina of Time, they're improving the visuals, though not to anything beyond a prettier N64 look, and making all sorts of gameplay tweaks to make it a better game for fans and new players. They put a lot of work into the three Zelda remakes they've done in the last four years to make them worthwhile endeavors.

 
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