ISIS - Should the US go to war with them?

AndyD33

AndyD33

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I say no.  They haven't attacked US territory, or anything like that.  As long as they stay in the middle east, that should be a problem for the other Arab countries.

Unless they attack the US(or Israel for that matter) it should not be our problem.

 
I wouldn't doubt that ISIS is manufactured by the US like the Afghan mujaheddin. In that case, the US funneled $$$ through Pakistan to the Afghan "rebels" who were fighting the big bad Soviet threat. The Soviets were invited in by the government to fight these "rebels" who were bombing schools, govt buildings, etc all because they wanted a theocratic state, not the more secular one that was in place. Guess who armed and trained these TERRORISTS to commit this campaign of TERRORISM? Yes, US taxpayer, your friendly neighborhood US gov't!

Zbigniew Brzinski (Carter's NSA) declared that the Soviets were led into an "Afghan trap" and they wanted them to "experience their own Vietnam." Well, that sure came to bite you back in the ass, didn't it with that whole 911 thing?

So, here we have the top US ally, Saudi Arabia, funneling money to these ISIS elements, the US directly admitting aid for the "rebels" in Syria who became part of ISIS, and then all these Iraqi weapons mysteriously disappearing under the US occupation and puppet regime going to ISIS. Hmmm... co-inky-dink? Funny, how the US gov't couldn't get support from their public for a Syrian war but now, the lemmings just fall in line. They sure did figure out how to manipulate them! And notice the great social media campaign and Hollywood-esque drama of the online video horror movie campaign they unleash? All wrapped up in a sexy brand called "ISIS"!!!!

How many times does history have to repeat itself for 'Mericans to get it?

 
I think the US should provide support to the countries dealing with ISIS, but shouldn't be directly or covertly involved, considering how many monsters our "intelligence" agencies have created, from Indonesian AND Cambodian killing fields, Nazi soviet double agents, theological governments, and what have you. In addition, I think the current members of Congress are making this situation worse with all their warmongering, which in of itself  hasn't changed since the foundation of our country. I don't believe long-tested foreign policy will help considering what the left hand does.

 
detectiveconan16 said:
I think the US should provide support to the countries dealing with ISIS, but shouldn't be directly or covertly involved, considering how many monsters our "intelligence" agencies have created, from Indonesian AND Cambodian killing fields, Nazi soviet double agents, theological governments, and what have you. In addition, I think the current members of Congress are making this situation worse with all their warmongering, which in of itself hasn't changed since the foundation of our country. I don't believe long-tested foreign policy will help considering what the left hand does.
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This is probably the best possibility. Its a big enough problem that we can't just sit back and do nothing but we don't need to jump into ol' world police mode either. The added bonus that there's some real enemy of my enemy possibilities to build some bridges right now as well.
 
RedvsBlue said:
This is probably the best possibility. Its a big enough problem that we can't just sit back and do nothing but we don't need to jump into ol' world police mode either. The added bonus that there's some real enemy of my enemy possibilities to build some bridges right now as well.
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Some bridge building possiblitlies but if you look at recent history, the US is a great stabber in the backer. After 911, Iran was crucial in helping the US in Afghanistan and looking to build the relationship... until the great intellect Dubs announced that Iran was part of the "Axis of Evil" at the SOTU. They were in shock. Can't trust such a political warmongering opportunist as the US then. Can you blame anyone? Frontline covered this in detail with an episode on the topic. Here it is:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/

 
joeboosauce said:
I wouldn't doubt that ISIS is manufactured by the US like the Afghan mujaheddin. In that case, the US funneled $$$ through Pakistan to the Afghan "rebels" who were fighting the big bad Soviet threat. The Soviets were invited in by the government to fight these "rebels" who were bombing schools, govt buildings, etc all because they wanted a theocratic state, not the more secular one that was in place. Guess who armed and trained these TERRORISTS to commit this campaign of TERRORISM? Yes, US taxpayer, your friendly neighborhood US gov't!

Zbigniew Brzinski (Carter's NSA) declared that the Soviets were led into an "Afghan trap" and they wanted them to "experience their own Vietnam." Well, that sure came to bite you back in the ass, didn't it with that whole 911 thing?

So, here we have the top US ally, Saudi Arabia, funneling money to these ISIS elements, the US directly admitting aid for the "rebels" in Syria who became part of ISIS, and then all these Iraqi weapons mysteriously disappearing under the US occupation and puppet regime going to ISIS. Hmmm... co-inky-dink? Funny, how the US gov't couldn't get support from their public for a Syrian war but now, the lemmings just fall in line. They sure did figure out how to manipulate them! And notice the great social media campaign and Hollywood-esque drama of the online video horror movie campaign they unleash? All wrapped up in a sexy brand called "ISIS"!!!!

How many times does history have to repeat itself for 'Mericans to get it?
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Let me get this straight, instead of focusing on players in the Syrian conflicts that are actually supported by the US and you can easily prove are supported by the US (and trained by the US in some instances), you cling to conspiracy babble claiming that the Islamic State is a creation of the US? If you were to make the argument that the Islamic State is mere blowback of American operations in the Middle East, you could actually make an argument, but to flat out say the US controls the Islamic State is tinfoil at it's best. Also, calling Saudi Arabia (or Israel, for that matter) top US "allies" is another instance of pure insanity.

Also, I do find it funny that in your next reply, you seem to ridicule GWB's intelligence. You'd think someone as controlled by conspiracies as you appear to be would have to admit the brilliance in his administration's ability to completely distract the American public and impose his will on the military directive of the country. You'd also think that someone who seems to put up a facade of knowledge on the topic would, you know, recognize that under the Bush administration, the US gained control of more key infrastructure than any president in recent time. Of course, this is all confirmed by the Snowden documents which show the NSA has gained control over quite a few foreign country's telecommunications. But, of course, expanding a country's assets (in both physical structures and expanding the knowledge base of intelligence agencies) is a dumb thing, right?

 
Check out the Snowden leaks that happened about this time last year. One leak, in particular, was centered around how the US gathered foreign intelligence by gaining access to a country's telecommunication infrastructure and are able to gather large amounts of data. None of this would have been possible if it were not for the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MYSTIC_%28surveillance_program%29

Before Wikileaks revealed their leak, they waited for US contractors to evacuate the area due to fears of retaliation, which obviously implies the US not only gathers sigint in countries, but also has physical access to telecom infrastructure in certain countries

 
please do a better job explaining how the invasion of Afghanistan (due to 911) And Iraq (due to lying) created a better system for spying on people including our allies
 
I didn't know this actually needed explaining. Glance over the Wiki page then review recent history. You should be able to put them together yourself. 

 
Are you really unable to review the Wiki page and recent history while keeping the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq in mind? We're not even doing 2+2 here, this is more like 1+1. 

 
The only thing you called out was your inability to read and research information. I shouldn't have to explain anything when I already gave you a starting point for you to do your own research.

Let's go through this very slowly. Occupation of Iraq & Afghanistan + MYSTIC + US withdrawal of NSA contractors at telcom sites = .....

Well, you should be able to figure this out, but, so far, you haven't been able to.

 
I feel like I'm dealing with a troll right now. You asked what key infrastructure. Although I can't tell you what specific towers the US gained control of, I can tell you to do your own research and look into MYSTIC, which, apparently, you are too dumb, or lazy, or both, to do. You told me to explain how the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan advanced the NSA's ability to monitor countries, which was honestly a retarded question, as I just answered that by telling you to look into MYSTIC, which gave the US a glimpse into the ME it didn't have before.

What exactly are you having a problem grasping? Are you a troll, or are you just this dumb?

 
edogawa said:
I feel like I'm dealing with a troll right now.

What exactly are you having a problem grasping? Are you a troll, or are you just this dumb?
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Both. Yes he's a troll, and yes he's that dumb.

I have never seen him string enough sentences together to constitute a paragraph.

The hate for America is strong in these threads.

 
Edo,
I am interested in getting to know exactly how a conflict started in response to 911 and a conflict with Iraq started due to a mess of lies make Bush crazy like a fox for spying programs (started after he left revealed due to Snowden). No one should be dumb enough to take your word for it.
 
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Are you really this slow? Again, review the Snowden leak in question and review the events that occurred in the ME around that time. The leaks confirm the programs exist and the events that occurred in the ME confirm that the US has control of physical locations in order to operate the program (but, then again, this is also confirmed in the leaks). Are you saying it would have been possible to gain access to telcom in Iraq & Afghanistan without the occupation?

I really don't understand what you are having problems with grasping here.

Also, of course I'm no longer discussing health care. You and detectiveconan both completely ignored the facts that I brought up, and, in fact, the other individual essentially started crying and said "W-well, Republicans must be guilty too!" because reality is too hard for him to grasp.

 
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This may be the silliest exchange I have had here and I've responded to egofed. According to your"source" the program may be run out of the Bahamas, are we occupying them militarily? Amazing how you are taking a cluster fuck like Iraq and spinning it like this is like shooting at a barn and declaring random holes bullseyes. Maybe you aren't stupid and merely dishonest.
 
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The program is ran out of the Bahamas? Okay, you clearly did no research whatsoever. Either that, or you have the reading comprehesion of a four year old. Can you please tell me where exactly you got the idea that the program is ran out of the Bahamas?

The closest thing to "being ran out of the Bahamas" is Greenwald's report that the Bahamas is one of the nations being spied on by the US (source: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/05/19/data-pirates-caribbean-nsa-recording-every-cell-phone-call-bahamas/). How in the world are you taking that and twisting it to "the program is ran out of the Bahams"? Seriously, are you even literate, bro?

Also, let me ask one more time. Are you really saying the US could have gained access to telecommunication in Iraq and Afghanistan (including physical locations, which, again, is confirmed by US withdrawal of NSA contractors immediately after the leaks) would have been possible without the occupation of Iraq & Afghanstan?

 
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You are saying we are spying on the Bahamas without occupying them militarily. You then are asking me if the same would be possible in Iraq. You are also ignoring about half of my previous post, it is illogical to give Bush credit for lying us into Iraq because of a program after the fact.
 
Uh... DId you do any research.... At all? You would have found out that we gained access to Bahamas telcom because of an agreement the DEA has with the Bahamas and that they are a guinea pig for MYSTIC. We don't have that with Iraq or Afghanistan. The only reason we were able to gain access to ME telcom was because of the occupations. Are you denying this?

But, just so we are clear, you said we can't give Bush credit (even though he was the one who started the occupation in Iraq & Afghanistan). So you think Obama is at fault for creating a wiretap program which violates international law, correct? Even though Obama has reversed progress in the ME (remember, kids, even Obama says that the future does not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam!) he should get the credit?

You know what, forget I said anything. I really don't think it's worth discussing this with you anymore. I feel like I am getting dumber each time I reply to you.

 
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I do not think it is possible for you to get dumber. Your premise is Bush is a genius to lie us into a war that cost billions and thousands of lives because of a later spy program. I mentioned this is a fallacy, I am not quibbling with you who gets credit.
 
Can you please tell me where you got the idea that MYSTIC is being ran out of the Bahamas? I'm still amazed that, somehow, that is what you took from your MYSTIC research.

Also, my premise is that a leader interested in turning a country into an empire is able to do so and the average citizen will be oblivious to how it is happening.

 
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Do you really think that "Ran out of" was me saying that the program was being controlled by the government of the Bahamas? It could be viewed as poor phrasing but most likely you are just being a nonce. Also your last sentence, pro empire now?
 
To me it sounded like you think the headquarters of the MYSTIC program is in the Bahamas, but that's not implied anywhere. What you are saying has no basis in reality and I'm trying to understand where you got this idea.

 
There is literally no point. You are obviously focusing on irrelevant nonsense because otherwise you have no response.
 
edogawa said:
Uh... DId you do any research.... At all? You would have found out that we gained access to Bahamas telcom because of an agreement the DEA has with the Bahamas and that they are a guinea pig for MYSTIC. We don't have that with Iraq or Afghanistan. The only reason we were able to gain access to ME telcom was because of the occupations. Are you denying this?

But, just so we are clear, you said we can't give Bush credit (even though he was the one who started the occupation in Iraq & Afghanistan). So you think Obama is at fault for creating a wiretap program which violates international law, correct? Even though Obama has reversed progress in the ME (remember, kids, even Obama says that the future does not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam!) he should get the credit?

You know what, forget I said anything. I really don't think it's worth discussing this with you anymore. I feel like I am getting dumber each time I reply to you.
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:lol:
 
Msut77 said:
There is literally no point. You are obviously focusing on irrelevant nonsense because otherwise you have no response.
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I answered your questions, though I honestly don't feel you are worthy of a long winded response because it'd be a waste of time on you. Even having said that, I still told you exactly what to research if you were interested in knowing more about how the US is currently in control over ME telcom systems (which, of course, anyone with a double digit IQ could easily understand is a direct result of the occupation of Iraq & Afghanistan). I understand that it's going to be difficult for you to research anything, as you have already demonstrated your inability to comprehend a very simple topic ("hurrrrr MYSTIC is ran out of Bahamas wait no that's not what I mean lol I'm confused pls help!") but you're going to have to if you actually want to have a slight understanding of the topic, because I have no desire to hold your hand through this. Unless you have anything of value to add to the discussion, I'd keep your mouth closed.

 
You made responses while carefully avoiding saying anything. I never said I gave a damn about the programs you are talking about. I'm fascinated by the fact you are implying empire building was justified by a spy program that came about after the fact. I didn't even scratch the surface of your reference to the prophet of Islam.
 
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