"Reigious Freedom" in Indiana

UncleBob

UncleBob

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At first, I thought it was because I live next door to Indiana that I thought was why I was hearing so much about the recent bill that passed there, but, today, I see some pretty big players weighing in on the issue.

Yet, there are 18 other states that already have this law in place (including my own, where I see people talking about Indiana with no acknowledgement/knowledge of the Illinois law) and other states which have similar protections via court decisions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/03/01/where-in-the-u-s-are-there-heightened-protections-for-religious-freedom/

RFRA1.jpg

(note, this article/image is from before Indiana signed the bill into law).

So, what makes Indiana so different that everyone's jumping all over it?
 
I live in Indiana and this has been a huge topic everywhere around here. The thing about Indiana is that we are mostly against this and any type of discrimination of race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. However the people in charge around here are the complete opposite and completely out of touch with what the people of this state really want. I don't want to get to much into it because I am already sick of hearing about it, but essentially the people who are charge in the state are made of bigots, homophobes, and racists who are old and out of touch with just about everything. Conventions like Gen-Con, the largest gaming convention in the United States and easily the largest convention held in Indiana, are threatening to termite contracts and no longer hold the convention in the state due to this bill, which means millions of dollars in lost revenue for the state. I believe Gen-Con is contracted to hold the convention here until 2020 though so they legally couldn't do anything until then, but that's not very far away and will greatly impact the economy here. 

The community and the government here are on completely different pages. 

 
I don't think they are on different pages.

The state government is saying that the citizens within the state can make the individual choice to discriminate.
The vast majority of the citizens within the state are saying "Yeah, we choose not to."

As per GenCon, I've been reading a lot of talk about it moving, and folks keep suggesting it move to states that have similar laws in place. It's like people don't know these laws exist - mainly, because most businesses are smart enough not to take "advantage" of them.
 
i love how a gay couple thinks they have the right to walk into any church and  DEMAND TO BE MARRIED, but if a straight couple walked into a gay church they can say they have the right not to allow it and people go,  Well if your straight you shouldn't  be going into a gay church in the first place. 

Can you tell me how a  gay couple can walk into a store and demand that Store Make them a cake. if the store does not make the cake the violated the gay couples civil rights, YET  the cake baker has no rights cause they are forced to make the cake..

Okay you say you have the right to say we  voilated the gay couples right    and i  right to say you made the   Cake maker into a SLAVE  cause your forcing them to do work they do not want to do

 
Does religious freedom protect ISLAM.....  Or is this a Christian law?

I wonder what those whitie bigots in those states had in mind about the religion they are really protecting with this law...

What if my religion forbids me to charge usury ?  

What if my religion forbids me to pay taxes that aids a corrupt government say like INDIANA... :)

We all know these religion protection laws were meant to protect ONE TYPE of religion.  So the law itself is discriminatory

 
Finger_Shocker said:
Does religious freedom protect ISLAM..... Or is this a Christian law?

I wonder what those whitie bigots in those states had in mind about the religion they are really protecting with this law...

What if my religion forbids me to charge usury ?

What if my religion forbids me to pay taxes that aids a corrupt government say like INDIANA... :)

We all know these religion protection laws were meant to protect ONE TYPE of religion. So the law itself is discriminatory
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You're exactly right. This is about about Christian privilege. More specifically, white Christian privilege since they're the ones pushing this agenda. Substitute Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Judaism or any other religion into the scenarios this law is "meant" to protect and things fall apart.

What happens when somebody with the "deeply held religious conviction" that black people have that skin color because of the biblical curse of Ham refuse them service under such a law? How about a Jewish shop owner refusing to sell to a Muslim or a Christian based on whatever religious conviction they want to contrive? There are tens of thousands of "brands" of Christianity, some of them tolerant but others even right of the Westboro Baptist loons. We have Senators and Congressmen who know nothing of the First Amendment and keep pushing to make Christianity the country's official religion.

 
How can they discriminate against you if they don't know your sexual orientation? Why is that a thing that strangers should immediately know about you? That seems weird to me. Like I walk into Safeway and the workers immediately know my sexual orientation. It seems this is just about gay wedding cakes. 

I get why race is protected, because you can't hide that.  

 
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Sigma said:
I live in Indiana and this has been a huge topic everywhere around here. The thing about Indiana is that we are mostly against this and any type of discrimination of race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. However the people in charge around here are the complete opposite and completely out of touch with what the people of this state really want. I don't want to get to much into it because I am already sick of hearing about it, but essentially the people who are charge in the state are made of bigots, homophobes, and racists who are old and out of touch with just about everything. Conventions like Gen-Con, the largest gaming convention in the United States and easily the largest convention held in Indiana, are threatening to termite contracts and no longer hold the convention in the state due to this bill, which means millions of dollars in lost revenue for the state. I believe Gen-Con is contracted to hold the convention here until 2020 though so they legally couldn't do anything until then, but that's not very far away and will greatly impact the economy here.

The community and the government here are on completely different pages.
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This is what happens when most people don't vote. If you vote a less dangerous fuck er in power, we wouldn't have as much of a problem. The last election had a 90%+ retention rate despite a extremely low Congressional rating, and the new guys are just fortifying the old guys. When John Q. Public finds it a hassle to spend an hour researching his representative, 1/2 an hour at the voting booth, or just doesn't care this is what happens. If you think your vote doesn't matter, imagine that x100, and then X1000, and x1000 and x1000000. They definitely wouldn't have influenced the election compared to the few hundred whiny wackos that did.

I think "religious freedom" is a load of horsecrap, and so is "not being under a foreign law." The foundations of society are all foreign, and there is a damn good reason why we separated church and state. Whose religion shall be the law of the land? Baptists? Reformists? Calvinists? Protestant? Mormon? Presbyterian? Catholic? Pick your Abrahamic religious derivative. Anybody who keeps trumpeting this must have failed their civics class.

 
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slidecage said:
i love how a gay couple thinks they have the right to walk into any church and DEMAND TO BE MARRIED, but if a straight couple walked into a gay church they can say they have the right not to allow it and people go, Well if your straight you shouldn't be going into a gay church in the first place.

Can you tell me how a gay couple can walk into a store and demand that Store Make them a cake. if the store does not make the cake the violated the gay couples civil rights, YET the cake baker has no rights cause they are forced to make the cake..

Okay you say you have the right to say we voilated the gay couples right and i right to say you made the Cake maker into a SLAVE cause your forcing them to do work they do not want to do
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Look, I thought I was done with VS. But what in the actual fuck is a gay church? Also, bravo to you slidecage, just when I think your inane ramblings have hit bottom you find a way to go even deeper.
 
To this day conservative right nuts have be screaming about how muslims want to install Sharia Law in the United States..

So we conservative top that by writing a religious freedom law

Those farking Muslims must be kicking themselves in the head right now, all this time they were waging war with the USA because they hate our freedom, when basically Republicans are Islam extremists... hating our freedoms

 
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I won't say my place of work, but this bill has caused huge stress on my job and it's been an extremely frustrating Monday, but at least Seth Rollins is the new WWE Heavyweight Champion!

 
I fail to understand how allowing a business owner to determine whom they wish to enter into a private business arrangement with is anything close to "Sharia Law".

Shocker and Slidecage are really the same person in two different accounts, aren't they?
 
Well you're a failure at alot of things... ;)  but thats another topic....

Anyways businesses already have and can choose who they like to do business with..

Just like PORN is legal,

That doesn't mean Best Buy carries it at their Media dept.

That doesn't mean every hotel have access to those cable channels

 etc etc..

Its because every business already can decide the type of atmosphere it likes to cater to i.e MORALITY

This law is useless as it really have no intention on protecting businesses' rights as you so want to put it...  It is CODIFIED BIGOTRY, something right wing conservatives need to justify their hate.. Just like CODIFIED SLAVERY, CODIFIED SEGREGATION

Once something is CODIFIED, bigots and racist can say "hey we're not racists or bigots, its the law.. we're just following it" 

Racism and Bigots will always find ways to hide behind their hate, who want to be call that?  So easiest way is to shift the goal post away ( something UncleBob said in another thread so to say )

Conservative and right wingers are basic scum, using the law to justify hate.  You can't call anyone a bigot or racist for following the law right ?   This is why conservative and right wingers want laws, with laws they can justify and rationalized their HATE !!!!!!

Is this eloquently put ... or do you have a failure to understand that basic concept.

 
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RedvsBlue said:
Look, I thought I was done with VS. But what in the actual fuck is a gay church? Also, bravo to you slidecage, just when I think your inane ramblings have hit bottom you find a way to go even deeper.
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Then go walk into a business that is run by a gay person and demand they make you a shirt that says

I HATE GAYS

they will refuse and they will say they have the right to do it. Already happened in a few states but no one makes a big deal about it, now when i gay couple goes into a store and demand they make a shirt that says we are gay, if the store refuses to make it, it will be all over the news.

who the fuck cares if your gay or not. if your not and your happy im happy for you. Why the fuck they think they have the right to walk down the middle of the streets blocking traffic screaming in your face they are GAY GET USE TO IT is another point all together. If you want to be gay Im fine with it but dont be pushing it in my face 1000% of the day.

 
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irideabike said:
Looks to me like this whole thing was blown completely out of proportion and right now companies are jumping on the free publicity for pulling out train.
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Definitely! Some companies statements have also been taken completely out of context as well. It has really brought out some extremely absurd religious nut jobs.

 
slidecage said:
Then go walk into a business that is run by a gay person and demand they make you a shirt that says

I HATE GAYS

they will refuse and they will say they have the right to do it. Already happened in a few states but no one makes a big deal about it, now when i gay couple goes into a store and demand they make a shirt that says we are gay, if the store refuses to make it, it will be all over the news.

who the fuck cares if your gay or not. if your not and your happy im happy for you. Why the fuck they think they have the right to walk down the middle of the streets blocking traffic screaming in your face they are GAY GET USE TO IT is another point all together. If you want to be gay Im fine with it but dont be pushing it in my face 1000% of the day.
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Your fact patterns are so utterly ridiculous. "Try to turn the sky purple. Oh right, you can't do it because there's no global warming"

 
Legal or Illegal, bigotry is bigotry and I don't think that, in today's connected world, any business that chooses to take advantage of what this bil offers will find much comfort in hiding behind "No, it's the law, so it's okay to be a bigot."

Look at it this way - folks like Westboro Babitist Church are very much protected by law under Free Speech - yet no one is worried about calling them out for being biggots (and assholes, amongst other things). Just because Ma and Pa's Kettle Shop is protected against legal action if they choose to be ignorant asshole biggots, it doesn't mean that the general population is requred to accept these folks as contributing members of society. Just as I won't attend a ceremony at WBC, I won't shop at a business that knowingly discriminates.

Not to pull the "I have a gay friend" card, but I do have a friend who stated it best: "Why would I want to give money to and eat a cake from someone who hates me and my life choices and is only making the cake because they're forced to by law? This law makes it easier for me to decide who I want to give my hard-earned gay-ass money to."
 
Arkansas just passed their own version today.

People keep saying the community is tolerant, that people are at heart decent, and yet they are blind to the fact that the ones they put in power are free to erode their rights day by day. We've already seen it economically, and this is just more socially.  The term is "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " And not giving a crap is the point.

We've legalized discrimination on legal grounds again. Yipee. Just gotta wait until the rest of the pesky Civil Rights Act is repealed.

 
UncleBob said:
Yet, there are 18 other states that already have this law in place (including my own, where I see people talking about Indiana with no acknowledgement/knowledge of the Illinois law)

[...]
So, what makes Indiana so different that everyone's jumping all over it?
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Illinois law also lists sexual orientation as a protected class along with race, religion, etc so it is still illegal to discriminate against people for being homosexual regardless of your religious beliefs. Indiana has no such protections. Comparisons between the two states as equal are disingenuous.

 
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People don't go around declaring they're gay.  When these idiot businesses become bigots is usually in the realm of a wedding where a gay couple walks in together and wants to make the collective decision of what kind of cake, flowers, etc. they want and so there's no hiding it.  But guess what?  This is America isn't it?  We're supposed to have the freedom to be ourselves so if someone gay wants to go around screaming it they should be able to without being discriminated against.

The people who believe this stuff are such idiots.  I saw a news story about Georgia florists who wanted a law in GA passed so they could deny service to gay weddings because of their religion.  The reporter told them that being straight wasn't even one of the ten commandments so would they deny service to a murderer or adulterer and the florist said no because that was different.  fucking bigots and hypocrites who hide behind religion which most of them don't even fucking follow.  

 
This whole thing seems so blown out of proportion and unnecessary, but anyway, one of my questions was whether or not a situation where a flaming racist wants a baker to make him a big ole' Nazi flag cake, and he walks into a bakery that's run by black folks, or really any rational person who would be offended by spending their time and resources making a cake to support an ideology that they're highly against.  Can the baker say "No, I refuse to fulfill this request because what you're promoting is against what I believe in."?

My personal opinion?  I should hope that a baker wouldn't have to make a swastika cake.  I would hope that a gay baker wouldn't have to make a cake with homophobic slurs or images on it.  I'd even hope a Jewish baker could tell a Christian that they're not going to make a cake to support some Christian holiday or event. 

If a business wants to make a business decision that may turn off a large part of their customer base, I think they should be allowed to.  If people don't like it, spread the word that "Ole Cracker Pete refuses to serve black people" and hopefully "Ole Cracker Pete" will be "Ole Cracker Pete In the Unemployment Line" very soon.

I remember a gun range in Texas said they were going to refuse to allow Muslims to shoot there.  Well, as a private business, they should be allowed to do that.  I think it makes them look ignorant, paranoid, and like a bunch of raving bigots, but that's their choice.  I get that that's a single business and not an entire state facilitating that, but it certainly didn't get the deluge of misinformation, protest, and boycott that this is.

 
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If your bakery doesn't make Nazi flag cakes then it doesn't make Nazi flag cakes.  If you don't make "Gays Are Evil" cakes then you don't make them.  No one is forcing anyone to produce a product they don't normally produce.  If you don't make Easter lamb cakes then that's just not a service you provide.

The problem arises if you make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for heterosexual couples but refuse to make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for homosexual couples.  Or, for that matter, sell copies of the newspaper to black people but not to white people or sell hot dogs to men but not to women.

 
^Exactly.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand that simple concept.  

If you offer one product or service to someone, then you have to offer it to everyone.  If you don't offer it then you don't have to make an exception just because a person is gay or a racial minority, etc.

It's a simple, simple, simple concept.

Bigots just seem to try to come up with the stupidest scenarios to promote their agenda.  

 
Cheaplikeafox OS X said:
^Exactly.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand that simple concept.

If you offer one product or service to someone, then you have to offer it to everyone. If you don't offer it then you don't have to make an exception just because a person is gay or a racial minority, etc.
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Apparently it's not that simple, or else there wouldn't be reactionary laws to try to clarify what you do and do not HAVE to do. What's hard for me to understand is why the owner of a private institution can't decide who they want to serve, and let the general public decide if the business' views upset them enough that they don't patron the establishment. The specific instance of a Christian not wanting to make a wedding cake for a gay couple is just the catalyst for all of this, but foundationally, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to pick and choose who you serve, and let your business face the repercussions.

 
berzirk said:
Apparently it's not that simple, or else there wouldn't be reactionary laws to try to clarify what you do and do not HAVE to do. What's hard for me to understand is why the owner of a private institution can't decide who they want to serve, and let the general public decide if the business' views upset them enough that they don't patron the establishment. The specific instance of a Christian not wanting to make a wedding cake for a gay couple is just the catalyst for all of this, but foundationally, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to pick and choose who you serve, and let your business face the repercussions.
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Because as a country, America has shown it can't police itself and is full of racists and bigots who will support each other. People seem to forget that not 50 years ago, discrimination was rampant and the whole "let people and businesses do what they want" led to there being little to no places for people of color to eat, shop, etc. Lynchings, hangings, murders, etc. Guess what? Those people are still alive and would love nothing more than to revert to those times. The free market doesn't work when it's full of bigots and racists supporting each other. Hell, that dumbass pizza place that said it would refuse to cater a wedding even though no one has ever hired them to cater a wedding just had 1,000,000 raised from fellow bigots who support them.

 
Syntax Error said:
If your bakery doesn't make Nazi flag cakes then it doesn't make Nazi flag cakes. If you don't make "Gays Are Evil" cakes then you don't make them. No one is forcing anyone to produce a product they don't normally produce. If you don't make Easter lamb cakes then that's just not a service you provide.

The problem arises if you make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for heterosexual couples but refuse to make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for homosexual couples. Or, for that matter, sell copies of the newspaper to black people but not to white people or sell hot dogs to men but not to women.
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you have no clue what sort of cake they asked for. if it was 2 men kissing and they did not make it maybe that is why they did not make it. Dont like it and then dont take your business there. Im pass sick of this bullshit. O im gay and they are racists and bigots, BUT a white person goes into a place with long hair and the company goes..

O we will not hire you cause you have long hair or a beard these same people are bitching now WILL SAY THAT COMPANY HAS THE RIGHT NOT TO HIRE THEM.

my cousin was just told today the bank job they was hiring for they would not Hire them cause their hair was too long. Told them they should say they are gay then they could sue the fuck out of the bank.

 
Cheaplikeafox OS X said:
Because as a country, America has shown it can't police itself and is full of racists and bigots who will support each other. People seem to forget that not 50 years ago, discrimination was rampant and the whole "let people and businesses do what they want" led to there being little to no places for people of color to eat, shop, etc. Lynchings, hangings, murders, etc. Guess what? Those people are still alive and would love nothing more than to revert to those times. The free market doesn't work when it's full of bigots and racists supporting each other. Hell, that dumbass pizza place that said it would refuse to cater a wedding even though no one has ever hired them to cater a wedding just had 1,000,000 raised from fellow bigots who support them.
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So the answer is: "the country is full of racists" (a point I don't entirely disagree with), so the government needs to protect us from all the racists...but then when the government creates a law that you disagree with, government is now the problem, not the solution. Err...OK...I guess...?

 
berzirk said:
So the answer is: "the country is full of racists" (a point I don't entirely disagree with), so the government needs to protect us from all the racists...but then when the government creates a law that you disagree with, government is now the problem, not the solution. Err...OK...I guess...?
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You can try to simplify this into absolutes, but that doesn't make it true.

My belief that the government has to step in to regulate the market and protect the population from discrimination is in no way some blanket endorsement of the government and everything they do.

This is also a state government vs. federal government we're talking about. They clarified the law to expressly prohibit discrimination, so even they realized something was wrong with the law. The funny thing is that this is an essentially pointless law now. It's one of those waste of time and money laws enacted to appease the lowest denominator of simpleton and gain some votes.

 
slidecage said:
you have no clue what sort of cake they asked for.
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You don't either. Common sense would dictate that, absent evidence to the contrary, it likely was a standard issue wedding cake and not a cake of two dudes having dirty buttsex or something.

Im pass sick of this bullshit
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I imagine that when you make up scenarios of scary gay wedding cakes in your head, it's easy to be get sick of it all.

 
Syntax Error said:
You don't either. Common sense would dictate that, absent evidence to the contrary, it likely was a standard issue wedding cake and not a cake of two dudes having dirty buttsex or something.

I imagine that when you make up scenarios of scary gay wedding cakes in your head, it's easy to be get sick of it all.
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yeap the gays have the right to say UNFAIR but walk in to a job with your hair too long and you will go right along them saying

That company has a Right not to higher someone with long hair.

 
For every "they didn't make our cake because we're gay" there are hundreds of instances of "I didn't make your cake because you acted like a fucking idiot in my store...".

Yet I'm sure those hundred people would rather shout "bigots!" at the top of their lungs just like there are many that would rather shout "racists" then you know... accept responsibility for their behavior and understand that is why they were treated in such a way.

But everyone wants to be on a podium rah rah rah'ing for something I suppose.

 
slidecage said:
yeap the gays have the right to say UNFAIR but walk in to a job with your hair too long and you will go right along them saying

That company has a Right not to higher someone with long hair.
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That's absolutely true. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out why.

 
GBAstar said:
For every "they didn't make our cake because we're gay" there are hundreds of instances of "I didn't make your cake because you acted like a fucking idiot in my store...".
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Maybe. But in the case in question, the owner said it was because they won't make cakes for homosexual weddings.

 
I always love the stereotyping scenarios people come up with.  People who are discriminated against have to be some sort of victim-mentality, problem starting entitled assholes, they surely couldn't be people who had the audacity to walk into a business expecting to be served like everyone else. 

 
slidecage said:
you have no clue what sort of cake they asked for. if it was 2 men kissing and they did not make it maybe that is why they did not make it. Dont like it and then dont take your business there. Im pass sick of this bullshit. O im gay and they are racists and bigots, BUT a white person goes into a place with long hair and the company goes..

O we will not hire you cause you have long hair or a beard these same people are bitching now WILL SAY THAT COMPANY HAS THE RIGHT NOT TO HIRE THEM.

my cousin was just told today the bank job they was hiring for they would not Hire them cause their hair was too long. Told them they should say they are gay then they could sue the fuck out of the bank.
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And you have no clue what a protected class is or what groups are considered protected classes. One of the major characteristics of a protected class is whether it's based on an immutable characteristic. Not cutting your hair is not immutable, it's a choice.

Furthermore, here's a little update for you. In most states sexual orientation isn't a protected class. There's a few states where it is but in most states you can be fired for being gay with no repercussions to the employer (except maybe a rise in their unemployment premiums). So really, tell us more about your deadbeat friend and your animosity toward homosexuals (despite the fact that you apparently have no problem with them being gay in private, feel the same way about dem Jews?).
 
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RedvsBlue said:
And you have no clue what a protected class is or what groups are considered protected classes. One of the major characteristics of a protected class is whether it's based on an immutable characteristic. Not cutting your hair is not immutable, it's a choice.

Furthermore, here's a little update for you. In most states sexual orientation isn't a protected class. There's a few states where it is but in most states you can be fired for being gay with no repercussions to the employer (except maybe a rise in their unemployment premiums). So really, tell us more about your deadbeat friend and your animosity toward homosexuals (despite the fact that you apparently have no problem with them being gay in private, feel the same way about dem Jews?).
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yea just like being gay is a choice. again i have no problem with them just saying im sick of they crying ever day about it. I can see why blacks do it cause how they been treated in the past but im sick of the gay people acting like they are better then everyone, Its their rights who cares about yours

O by the way how is he a dead beat when he has 2 jobs works 15 hours a day and supports his 3 children (was looking for a higher paying job) Unlike most people

 
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Syntax Error said:
Good point. Throughout history, homosexuals have had it easy for too long!
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yea they have a right to go into your business and force you to do something. Dont like the place go some place else, who do you think you have the right to tell people what they have to do. Show me one place in the last year what refuse to allow a gay person to sit at a counter and eat food next to a straight person... Thats right you cant, yet the Gay people are screaming on tv saying o they are going to do this they are going to do that... Guess what the russians could attack us tonight so we better go and do something about it now

your gay who the hell cares its more like they think they deserve special treatment. Got to wonder how many of these people on tv are really gay, but just want to be put on tv.

So i guess now a white power group has the right to walk into a bakery and demand the cake shop make them a cake with a black person hanging from a tree (what i would not support as well)

 
slidecage said:
yea just like being gay is a choice. again i have no problem with them just saying im sick of they crying ever day about it. I can see why blacks do it cause how they been treated in the past but im sick of the gay people acting like they are better then everyone, Its their rights who cares about yours

O by the way how is he a dead beat when he has 2 jobs works 15 hours a day and supports his 3 children (was looking for a higher paying job) Unlike most people
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Really, I suppose you're right. Homosexuals have had it really easy, I mean it's no wonder they choose to be gay, that choice carries a lot of benefits.

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/lgbt.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/13/nation/la-na-lgbt-hate-crimes-20110713

http://www.businessinsider.com/hate-crimes-against-gays-in-america-2013-5

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/news/2013/10/31/78518/4-years-later-examining-bias-motivated-crimes-against-lgbt-people-after-the-shepard-byrd-act/

But hey, at least they get to bitch when someone won't make their wedding cake, that makes it all worth it.
 
By actually writing this law and passing it, this is the gov't condoning and justifying Bigotry.

Normally every business have the right to deny services or deal with only certain customers, and if they choose to discriminate they are publicly shamed and fail like any crappy business.

By letting the gov't make a law to protect such behavior means the gov't actually CODIFIED hate, bigotry, separation.   This is where the danger lies, letting the gov't get involved in PRIVATE affairs of the people.

And this is why conservatives and right wingers are natural scum, they scream for the gov't to get out of people's lives and then they want the gov't to CODIFY laws that affect everyone's lives.

Again let me make it clear conservative and right wingers are pure scum and they are a threat to real freedom.  They will never sell you freedom only oppression

 
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slidecage said:
your gay who the hell cares
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Homophobic bakers I guess and the people who protect them.

If no one cared, there wouldn't be the topic of "I should have the right to discriminate against them!"

So i guess now a white power group has the right to walk into a bakery and demand the cake shop make them a cake with a black person hanging from a tree
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No, for reasons stated upthread.

 
Syntax Error said:
If your bakery doesn't make Nazi flag cakes then it doesn't make Nazi flag cakes. If you don't make "Gays Are Evil" cakes then you don't make them. No one is forcing anyone to produce a product they don't normally produce. If you don't make Easter lamb cakes then that's just not a service you provide.

The problem arises if you make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for heterosexual couples but refuse to make a three tier white frosting wedding cake with roses for homosexual couples. Or, for that matter, sell copies of the newspaper to black people but not to white people or sell hot dogs to men but not to women.
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So, if White Power Joe goes to Caterer X and want to order catering for his annual KKK meeting (nothing fancy, just the usual catered food), should Caterer X be required to deliver and serve at White Power Joe's catered event like every other catered event?

Finger_Shocker said:
By actually writing this law and passing it, this is the gov't condoning and justifying Bigotry.
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And by writing/passing laws allowing free speech, the government is condoning and justifying every individual's words they allow them to say.

Yup.
 
RedvsBlue said:
Really, I suppose you're right. Homosexuals have had it really easy, I mean it's no wonder they choose to be gay, that choice carries a lot of benefits.

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/lgbt.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/13/nation/la-na-lgbt-hate-crimes-20110713

http://www.businessinsider.com/hate-crimes-against-gays-in-america-2013-5

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/news/2013/10/31/78518/4-years-later-examining-bias-motivated-crimes-against-lgbt-people-after-the-shepard-byrd-act/

But hey, at least they get to bitch when someone won't make their wedding cake, that makes it all worth it.
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you said it not me, THEIR CHOOSE to be gay, so i guess now They all can stop saying its not their choice god made them that way.

Also if you think god made them that way i guess we should let all the people who kill out of prison, it was not their choice you see god made them that way so you cant blame them.. That old man who rapes little children, nope you cant charge them with anything cause it was not his choice. god made him that way.

 
slidecage said:
you said it not me, THEIR CHOOSE to be gay, so i guess now They all can stop saying its not their choice god made them that way.

Also if you think god made them that way i guess we should let all the people who kill out of prison, it was not their choice you see god made them that way so you cant blame them.. That old man who rapes little children, nope you cant charge them with anything cause it was not his choice. god made him that way.
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So you are equating one person murdering another person (who didn't want to die) and another person molesting children (who don't want to be molested) with two consenting adults?

Even in your warped world where being gay is a choice, that still makes zero sense.

 
Cheaplikeafox OS X said:
So you are equating one person murdering another person (who didn't want to die) and another person molesting children (who don't want to be molested) with two consenting adults?

Even in your warped world where being gay is a choice, that still makes zero sense.
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no im just waiting for those sort of people to use the same logic and try to start saying. Cant blame us god made us this way and all of the people who will be right behind them supporting them

 
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