CAGcast #434: The Next Kinect

The gangs talks Oculus Rift pricing and the reality of virtual reality.  Star Wars: The Force Awakens is also a thing we talk about.  Guess who’s playing Devil’s Third and Fallout 4!
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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro - Gameboy - Venomenal

Outro - Chewbacca - Supernova

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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

finally happy new year ～

Well, I avoided spoilers until now, it was going to happen eventually. Going to see Sisters instead seems like a bad call, in retrospect.

Great show guys, glad you are back!

Star Wars The Force Awakens was a bad Star Wars movie....there I said it.

As far as a movie goes, sure it was good. JJ and co created a video that appealed to a mass audience, had likable characters, and was entertaining to 99% of those who watched it.  

As far as the story goes, it was a joke. it was an exact copy of IV. Oh, the force sensitive hero grows up on some dessert planet without her parents. Never hear that one before. Oh look, Han that rascally smuggler is still in trouble with some shady people. Hey look a bar scene full of random aliens, that's original. They couldn't even come up with a new weapon of mass destruction. Oh cool guys, this one can destroy more than one planet at a time. So original. They couldn't even come up a new way to destroy the big bad weapon.

What the heck is up with Finn? A black guy gets some screen time in a Star Wars movie and they make him a bubbling idiot janitor? I was honestly shocked at how Finn was portrayed. 

Kylo is probably the worst villain I have ever seen. Star Wars is very much about light/dark good/evil. Kylo was an angsty teen who had daddy issues and got angry every once and awhile. He wasn't an evil Sith apprentice or Sith lord. He wasn't even really that evil comparatively speaking. No one looks at Kylo and thinks, "Man that guy is full of the dark side and is straight up evil." They look at Kylo and think, "Man that guy is a dick. He needs to go."

The main thing that annoys me is Rey. No training at all but halfway through the movie she is pulling Jedi mind tricks. BS. Rey can fight with a stick, cool. Apparently that means she can pick up a Light Saber, once again with no training at all, and defeat someone who has apparently been trained in the Dark Side and trained in Light Saber combat. Give me a break. Sure, have a strong female lead but don't crap on the the lore of Star Wars while doing it. Not that there is any lore left anymore. 

Congrats Disney, you made a billion dollars destroying one of the greatest stories in modern history. 

I agree with Wombat on VR in the home. Every time I think about it, it reminds me of very early radios where people had to use headphones to have multiple people listen. After the amplification got better, along with more programming broadcasting and prices dropping, they became a success. The headphones weren't the only factor but they were a factor and I feel the same about VR goggles.

To answer Cheapy's question about corporate applications, I work for an architecture and design firm and they're already playing around with VR applications to give clients virtual walkthroughs and stuff like that. Not that this is going to be a million selling application, but for forward thinking companies with the technology leanings I think this could at least be a flavor of the month.

(As an aside, I used to do tech for a school system. Someone once demoed this amazing glasses free 3D whiteboard setup that seriously blew my mind. The issue being, no school in our entire state was going to have the money to make a purchase like that. Where I work now, we've got the computing horsepower for Occulus available and $600 is not a big deal, but for smaller firms, I would imagine this is not the case.)

Thanks for listening, George Lucas. Big fan!

ttados said:

Great show guys, glad you are back!

Star Wars The Force Awakens was a bad Star Wars movie....there I said it.

As far as a movie goes, sure it was good. JJ and co created a video that appealed to a mass audience, had likable characters, and was entertaining to 99% of those who watched it.

As far as the story goes, it was a joke. it was an exact copy of IV. Oh, the force sensitive hero grows up on some dessert planet without her parents. Never hear that one before. Oh look, Han that rascally smuggler is still in trouble with some shady people. Hey look a bar scene full of random aliens, that's original. They couldn't even come up with a new weapon of mass destruction. Oh cool guys, this one can destroy more than one planet at a time. So original. They couldn't even come up a new way to destroy the big bad weapon.

What the heck is up with Finn? A black guy gets some screen time in a Star Wars movie and they make him a bubbling idiot janitor? I was honestly shocked at how Finn was portrayed.

Kylo is probably the worst villain I have ever seen. Star Wars is very much about light/dark good/evil. Kylo was an angsty teen who had daddy issues and got angry every once and awhile. He wasn't an evil Sith apprentice or Sith lord. He wasn't even really that evil comparatively speaking. No one looks at Kylo and thinks, "Man that guy is full of the dark side and is straight up evil." They look at Kylo and think, "Man that guy is a dick. He needs to go."

The main thing that annoys me is Rey. No training at all but halfway through the movie she is pulling Jedi mind tricks. BS. Rey can fight with a stick, cool. Apparently that means she can pick up a Light Saber, once again with no training at all, and defeat someone who has apparently been trained in the Dark Side and trained in Light Saber combat. Give me a break. Sure, have a strong female lead but don't crap on the the lore of Star Wars while doing it. Not that there is any lore left anymore.

Congrats Disney, you made a billion dollars destroying one of the greatest stories in modern history.

Click to expand...

As one of the more enthusiastic VR proponents, I was a little miffed by the negativity surrounding the Oculus price announcement. But I did appreciate the sensible and reasoned responses from the CAG-team. I felt that their analysis of how this effects the VR scene and its expansion going forward was well thought-out. I find such discussions far more edifying than a constant litany of not liking VR because of what VR is. (putting a headset on)

I would address Cheapy's point about VR not being able to deliver next-level realistic graphics, and about the majority of early VR experiences being demos as opposed to full games. These are both quite likely points, but neither is actually an impediment to VR growing.

Due to the nature of early VR, shorter experiences are actually better for an initial impression than a larger, longer interactive experience. Long-form large-scale game development would actually be a poor way to evangelize VR, especially at this early point. Smaller-scale experiences, possibly with more rogue-like emergent elements, would be a much better choice for early Oculus development. This will be the initial thrust for a lot of VR projects, but this is as it should be, and won't actually hold VR back.

Delivering on Crytek-style realism in the rendering is also the wrong direction to take. Initial testing has already shown that attempting to push realistic graphics in VR actually increases the chances of end-users getting ill from the experience. It's the uncanny valley effect, only scaled up to an immersive level. Smarter early VR developers are going to actively avoid pushing realism in their titles. We're already seeing this, a lot of current VR development is shifting toward a more stylized graphical presentation.

A lot of this is just going to be advanced through experimentation. Which is where a lot of the early adopters for the Oculus are going to be coming from. A lot of early sales for Oculus units will be from hobbyist developers. (such as myself)

I'm not that excited about the Oculus. It's more like disappointed that we didn't get this stuff back in the 1990s, when all those sitcoms made fun of VR. Not to mention that it was some 20 year old brat that basically made the tech very accessible for the average consumer, not Sony or Panasonic or whatever. It is what it is, we should be happy that we got virtual reality in our hands now. $600 is alright. Besides, if you're going to complain about the price, why are you comfortable paying so much money for your PC, and the services for it?

The original trilogy, to be frank, aren't the greatest movies of all time. They are what they are, fun movies with definite plot holes and failings. The Force Awakens is not exception, and I am glad that George Lucas didn't get his grubby mitts on it. He produced the first trilogy, it did fine, but sat back and let the expanded universe take shape. And when he came back, we got a group of very terrible movies, not to mention pointless superficial additions to not just IV-VI, but Indy and ET! JJ Abrams has some problems, but he did a great job in making me give a crap about Star Wars again after the burnout during my actual childhood.

I watched Ex Machina recently, and am surprised this wasn't part of WTB, considering it stars Poe and that First Order General. It's definitely not a kid's movie.

So Trump has killed many people? Do you know what the current administration has done?

Your show is getting harder to listen to the closer the elections come. Can you at least just say who you support so it's out in the open? I'm a Cruz fan so I'm not even 100% behind Trump but you have only taken jabs at Republicans on your show. It's obvious you are democrats and that's fine but why keep making cheap jabs on a gaming podcast? I'm a long time listener and site member so i think I deserve to have my say.

btw, good thing I have seen Star Wars before you guys spoiled it big time.

The whole idea of spoiling the results of an old court case seems weird to me, but yeah, I enjoyed watching Making a Murderer, too. I know it was one-sided, and I know about the evidence that was left out that Shipwreck alluded to, but even with that, I still have some doubt. Even if Avery did do it, the ends don't justify any unethical actions taken by the police. 

cheapwick said:

So Trump has killed many people? Do you know what the current administration has done?

Your show is getting harder to listen to the closer the elections come. Can you at least just say who you support so it's out in the open? I'm a Cruz fan so I'm not even 100% behind Trump but you have only taken jabs at Republicans on your show. It's obvious you are democrats and that's fine but why keep making cheap jabs on a gaming podcast? I'm a long time listener and site member so i think I deserve to have my say.

btw, good thing I have seen Star Wars before you guys spoiled it big time.

Click to expand...

I support Bernie Sanders.

You can talk about whomever and whatever you want on your podcast! I don't think anyone is stopping you! Are you suggesting we stop us from talking about what we want on our podcast?

The reason we joke about this group of Republicans is because they are a joke. There is not an electable one in that massive group. I would have no problem voting Republican if they had a legitimate candidate. It's 2016...let's advance this society instead of turning back the clock.

CheapyD said:

I support Bernie Sanders.
You can talk about whomever and whatever you want on your podcast! I don't think anyone is stopping you! Are you suggesting we stop us from talking about what we want on our podcast?

The reason we joke about this group of Republicans is because they are a joke. There is not an electable one in that massive group. I would have no problem voting Republican if they had a legitimate candidate. It's 2016...let's advance this society instead of turning back the clock.

Click to expand...

As an Englishman watching American politics it is a truly bizarre spectacle. It's a field of charletans, madmen, or corporate pot plants. Most Republican candidates pledge to abolish the IRS (!!) and bring in "fair" flat taxes that instantly add trillions to the deficit/debt - the same debt they've spent the last 7 years saying is the biggest issue for the country. Coincidently this royally s over every tax payer except the top 5-10% of the population. It spawned the Tea Party which is finally fracturing/destroying the GOP leading to the rise of Trump and Cruz.

You have Carson who is apparently a genuine crazy person, only entered the race to make money, leaving his campaign at peak rating to go on his book tour (sales only for personal gain, not funding his campaign). His wife just "wrote" a book in less than 4 weeks to hit the market before his star finally fades. How does everyone not see the guy is a fraud? Add Huckerbee and Rick "jizzy cum stain" Santorum to the fraud list too.

Bobby "tanned and ready" Jindal who literally whitefaces himself to appeal to his base. Rubio "oh no I hate immigrants now too" to sate the base.

Carly Fiorina is directly responsible for the deaths of the planned parenthood victims. The maniac screamed her totally fabricated lines of "no more baby parts". She compulsively lies and has a terrible business track record.

Cruz is just amazingly unpleasant and so fake I don't get how anyone believes a word he says.

Rand, Jeb, Christie, Kasich, and any remaining clowns are all just weak as piss.

Cheapy, I think you're wrong on one thing. None of those clowns stand a chance except one, Trump. That guy may be a fascist crazy man, but he knows what he's doing and has a good shot at the nomination. He's under both Bernie and Clinton by 10 points or so at this stage, but he has a weird mass appeal that under the right course of events (terrorist attack, major market correction) he could come out top.

Strap in for another election cycle of pure madness watching vast swathes of the country vote against their self interests.

Is there a way we could just get an entire CAGcast done in a cockney accent?

It doesn't matter how many times I hear it, it's always hilarious.

CheapyD said:

I support Bernie Sanders.

You can talk about whomever and whatever you want on your podcast! I don't think anyone is stopping you! Are you suggesting we stop us from talking about what we want on our podcast?

The reason we joke about this group of Republicans is because they are a joke. There is not an electable one in that massive group. I would have no problem voting Republican if they had a legitimate candidate. It's 2016...let's advance this society instead of turning back the clock.

Click to expand...

Lol, I don't have any problem with political talk on a games podcast but let's be real. If you support Bernie then the essence of your worldview is fundamentally in opposition to every conservative candidate and what they stand for. Also, I would rather, by your definition, turn back the clock then support a criminal warmonger like Hilary or someone who wants to drastically increase the debt of a bankrupt country.

As a side note, I usually always laugh when y'all make fun of republican candidates...because y'all are pretty funny. Keep up the good work!

I prefer the Fallout universe to the Elder Scrolls universe. Elder Scrolls is great, but Fallout is way more interesting to me. I haven't even played the classic Fallout games, so it's not due to that. I know that's just my opinion, but I think Ship is wrong about Fallout's universe.

cheapwick said:

So Trump has killed many people? Do you know what the current administration has done?

Your show is getting harder to listen to the closer the elections come. Can you at least just say who you support so it's out in the open? I'm a Cruz fan so I'm not even 100% behind Trump but you have only taken jabs at Republicans on your show. It's obvious you are democrats and that's fine but why keep making cheap jabs on a gaming podcast? I'm a long time listener and site member so i think I deserve to have my say.

btw, good thing I have seen Star Wars before you guys spoiled it big time.

Click to expand...

Go listen to some racist Republican idiot like Rush Limbaugh instead.

Well I ordered an Oculus Rift.

The min specs are for the Oculus Store. They guarantee anything you buy from there will run on a 970 at 90fps. Maybe not at the top settings though. Of course anything outside the store they can't control.

Ya it's expensive. But anyone who has been following this should not have been surprised. This is cutting edge tech. You gotta pay to play. I remember when my dad got his first computer. I'm scared to know how much he paid. Probably $3000+ back in the 80's.

I'm not sure why people compare it to 3d tvs. This is a lot more than a monitor. Nor is it a console. The sales will not be anywhere near new console sales. Everyone knows that. The games will be a lot of indie stuff from smaller teams, lots of gimmicky stuff, and non game stuff. I see it as a new medium. Being immersed is very different than playing/watching on a screen. I have heard no one say this is going to replace video games on a screen or watching tv!?!?! No one i respect at least. You guys sounded like a bunch of Old men scared of this new "VR" tech. lol

Also things will get better. When we got a first computer you had a choice between green or amber screen. Still managed to play a flight sim on it. You damn kids are spoilt! LOL

ttados said:

Lol, I don't have any problem with political talk on a games podcast but let's be real. If you support Bernie then the essence of your worldview is fundamentally in opposition to every conservative candidate and what they stand for. Also, I would rather, by your definition, turn back the clock then support a criminal warmonger like Hilary or someone who wants to drastically increase the debt of a bankrupt country.

As a side note, I usually always laugh when y'all make fun of republican candidates...because y'all are pretty funny. Keep up the good work!

Click to expand...

You do realize every Republican candidate is proposing a tax plan that would give massive tax breaks only to millionaires/billionaires, and tiny tax cuts to people earning say 100k or less. These tax cuts would either require all federal budgets be cut by up to 40% (do you want to cut the military budget by 40%??) OR the debt/deficit would blow out by trillions of dollars over ten years.

If you hate high debt levels, can you explain why you are so keen to have the GOP in power and enact tax plans that blow the debt out, and all proceeds go to billionaires? All this at a time in history with the greatest levels of inequality between the richest and poorest. You're being conned into supporting these guys.

"The plans from former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida and Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas would cut taxes by as much as $3.6 trillion over a decade, according to the Tax Foundation. Trump’s plan would cost as much as $12 trillion, and Rubio’s $4.1 trillion, the tax group also found."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/gop-2016-candidates-tax-plans-budget-217268#ixzz3wop04nGd

Loved the episode, though I disagree with Ship about the Fallout universe being one note or not as interesting as the Elder Scrolls universe. When utilized correctly I've always found the Fallout universe to be incredibly interesting with a lot of depth and literally hundreds of years worth of lore to draw upon.

I think the problem lies in Bethesda and their writing. They've just never been able to take advantage of the Fallout setting the way Interplay / Black Isle did back in the day with the first two Fallout games. They were filled to the brim with memorable quests, great humour and biting social commentary.

Bethesda's attempts at it have never quite worked for me. There are hints of potential with some quest lines, but it's never realized. They seem to be much more comfortable with Elder Scrolls where they don't have to deal with any of the science or politics found in Fallout.

Thank you for mentioning the show Making a Murderer, Cheapy! It is fantastic!

Great show guys, nice to have the gang back.

Hi Shipwreck,

Sony has been clear in saying the separate box used for Playstation VR is to allow the PS4 video output to be visible on a TV and goggles at the same time.  The box does not provide any additional horsepower.

That said, I think the system-on-a-chip architecture of the PS4 means that some VR-centric operations work better than if PS4 had a standard PC architecture with the same GPU on a PCIe video card.

And Wombat should know that many glasses wearers have said the later versions of the Oculus Rift accommodated eyeglasses better and that  Playstation VR was good for eyeglass wearers as well.  Not sure about Vive and eyeglasses.

         I binged watched Making a Murderer. Ten hours over 2 days. I was hooked after the second episode and I'm not into murder documentaries. I have my theories, mostly pointing at Lenk and Colbourn. I hope Anonymous exposes them.

Wow I was shocked Force Awakens wasn't an original movie.    It was a remake.    I had to ask myself if I was in the Twilight zone.  A bigger death star.  A weak pt.  A gathering to plan an x-wing assault to attack its weak point.   A hologram emperor.  Darth Jr.  "Leia" (rey) Skywalker instead of Luke.  Desert planet and lost droid with information.  Droids in the desert being captured for parts/sale.   A dramatic father-son encounter across scaffolding over an endless void.   A vader-luke (vader jr - rey) light saber battle.  A cantina shot.  hologram maps with information to destroy the death star.   The reluctant hero helping to get the jedi and droid to the rebels.  A monster in a tight, closed environment.  Garbage.  

I think the movie was in the hands of a skilled director/production crew who overall lacked the imagination to make anything else other than a remake in disguise.  I think it just a filler of  a movie to set up star wars for the next gen and close it for the old gen.

To me, it was like Disney hired today's musicians to re-record/re-work Led Zeppelin IV.   What do you get?  Slick production.  Clean cut band.  Song in a different order, but the same songs.  A few lyrics changed and others enunciated better.  And some of the songs cut shorter with a few hits from other Zep albums thrown in.  And then a Jimmy Page cameo and Robert Plant appearance.  

IT's a factory of a movie.  A filler.  You know the story.  You don't need to go see it.  Way too hyped.  Meh.

Regarding Shipwrecks Fallout comments, if you find the Fallout Pipboy screen too small, you can push the View button on Xbox One (or your platform's equivalent "Back" button) to basically zoom in so the Pipboy fills the entire screen.

I feel it makes a big different to read things easier. 

Also there are Strong Back perks in the Strength tree to be able to carry more and fast travel if encumbered.  If on PC, there is a mod to basically remove weight all together.

Those options can help if/when folks suffer from OCD conditions.

ttados said:

Kylo is probably the worst villain I have ever seen.

The main thing that annoys me is Rey. No training at all but halfway through the movie she is pulling Jedi mind tricks. BS.

Click to expand...

Well to be fair, Rey "Jedi Mind Tricked" Daniel Craig. So maybe 'James Bond' was just pretending to please a lady ...

I agree about Kylo. I can't wait to find out he turned evil in the next one because the younglings picked him last for Star Dodgeball.

joyce_181502 said:

Also there are Strong Back perks in the Strength tree to be able to carry more and fast travel if encumbered. If on PC, there is a mod to basically remove weight all together.

Click to expand...

You don't even need to download a mod to remove carry weight if you wish to go the cheating route. Using the console command "player.setav carryweight [insert number]" you can set your max carry weight at anything you want. This doesn't disable Steam achievements, either.