PS4K Xbox 1.5 Discussion

SlaughterX

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Well it looks like both Sony and Microsoft are going to release more powerful versions of current generation consoles. PS4K is supposed to play UHD discs, have a 2× more powerful GPU, 4k up scaling, and possibly a more powerful processor too, and isn't supposed to cost more than $500. Worth buying for UHD BD support alone if you have a 4k TV. No much info on the Xbox yet but E3 should reveal all.
 
I think the idea is good but if they don't give current owners an upgrade path that would really stink
Seems like the rumors are running a little rampant now... EG originally said, it was basically slightly more powerful to allow for 4K stream (which I don't get b/c the PS4 is, in theory, powerful enough for 4K video). And now there are rumors that the system itself is more powerful. If it's the latter, I kinda agree, it would suck if there wasn't some kind of an upgrade option (ie, trade in old PS4 + some $ for PS4K) for current owners.

 
4k streaming would be a waste since every 4k TV I know of has built in apps for all the streaming services. In order to play UHD BD the console would need hardware *HDMI 2.0.
 
Netflix and chill in 4k

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4k streaming would be a waste since every 4k TV I know of has built in apps for all the streaming services. In order to play UHD BD the console would need hardware *HDMI 2.0.
Wasn't really talking about ports, just the GPU/CPU... if they just added a HDMI 2.0 port, that'd be one thing. But I'm saying, the PS4's GPU/CPU should be powerful enough to handle 4K video streaming. The fact that there seems to be many signs saying it actually is more powerful makes me wonder why.

I'm not an expect on the hardware or anything, so I could very well be wrong but not needing the additional power (ie, maybe for the UHDBD decoding).

 
It's all moot to me if they play the same game discs. I mean, current gen consoles barely do HD well... regardless of what they do to make the next iteration more powerful I doubt they (the developers) are at the point where they will be able to do 4K games so essentially you are buying a new(er) version of the PS4 / Xbox One for media purposes and perhaps play standard PS4 / X1 games more efficiently.

Sort of like the 3DS XL vs new 3DS XL?

I really doubt either one will have a new standard of game discs.

Or do people disagree with that sentiment? 

 
Wasn't really talking about ports, just the GPU/CPU... if they just added a HDMI 2.0 port, that'd be one thing. But I'm saying, the PS4's GPU/CPU should be powerful enough to handle 4K video streaming. The fact that there seems to be many signs saying it actually is more powerful makes me wonder why.

I'm not an expect on the hardware or anything, so I could very well be wrong but not needing the additional power (ie, maybe for the UHDBD decoding).
While the existing APU can do the job, it cannot do it very well. HEVC, the primary codec used for 4K content, although Netflix is using it for everything where supported to reduce bandwidth costs, is still fairly new as far as hardware is concerned. For example, you can play HEVC content fairly well on the latest Intel Skylake processors but the amount of activity it requires is much higher than desirable for something like a settop box. (A really obsolete term since TVs have long since stopped being big boxes you could parka a smaller box atop.)

The reason for this is much of the task needs to be done in software, with the hardware helping in a few key areas. The next generation of Intel processors is called Kaby Lake. One of the upgrades this will offer is a complete HEVC encode and decode solution in hardware. This means playing, recording, and transcoding 4K content will use much less of the processor. This allows for either far lower power and heat, and for the ability to handle more simultaneous tasks.

A similar upgrade of the codec hardware in the PS4 and/or Xbox One APU would allow for creating a model that handles 4K far better than the existing APU can offer. AMD is no doubt working on producing die shrinks of the existing APUs for Microsoft and Sony to allow engineering revisions that reduce cost and allow a wider audience to be reached. Producing an upgraded version of the APUs at the same time would be efficient in that the transistor budget should improve a fair bit and the additions would be relatively small compared to the features needed for a real upgrade to the whole platform.

This also serves as an interim step towards the next generation. It is almost certain that both companies will stick with x86 and a PS5 or Xbox <insert designator> will be direct extensions of the current machines with a big boost in general horsepower, though still trailing much more expensive high-end PC capability.

 
It's all moot to me if they play the same game discs. I mean, current gen consoles barely do HD well... regardless of what they do to make the next iteration more powerful I doubt they (the developers) are at the point where they will be able to do 4K games so essentially you are buying a new(er) version of the PS4 / Xbox One for media purposes and perhaps play standard PS4 / X1 games more efficiently.

Sort of like the 3DS XL vs new 3DS XL?

I really doubt either one will have a new standard of game discs.

Or do people disagree with that sentiment?
I think you are correct. It would be a huge mistake for Sony and/or Microsoft to divide the user base at such an early point in this generation. It is also too soon to get the amount of performance upgrade needed while keeping to the same price point the current machines started at.

If real, these machines would be almost entirely about 4K for non-gaming, with scaling functionality to make existing games get a minor boost. Even that would be more about making it more convenient to use a 4K display by having the scaling happen on the console side and thus be assured of consistency against many makes and models of 4K screens.

It would help lay the groundwork for the real next generation, which should be targeted heavily toward 4K while still fully usable with 1080p displays, much in the same way that the Xbox 360 and PS3 were widely used with NTSC/PAL TVs in their early days before 1080p panels became so common.

 
Thanks for the clarification epobirs. I guess it makes sense, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't necessary. 

I was also wondering if PSVR might have been a factor in more power but Sony seems fairly confident that current hardware can handle it fine. 

I'm kinda torn at the moment on the new PS4. I just got a new HDTV that's 4K. It's a cheapo one but picture quality apparently isn't bad. I don't have any 4K capable devices outside of my laptop and PC so I've been thinking about something for my entertainment area. A Roku 4 is $100+ by itself and if the PS4K is $400 (no idea if that's even reasonable) and has any other benefits, I might as well trade in my old PS4 towards a new console. :whistle2:k

 
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4k streaming would be a waste since every 4k TV I know of has built in apps for all the streaming services. In order to play UHD BD the console would need hardware *HDMI 2.0.
That is simply not true. Many 4K TVs, especially at the lower price points, do not have app functionality and even those that do typically provide a greatly inferior experience to apps on the consoles. The TVs have much less processor performance and RAM, and usually no local storage or support for user added storage. Microsoft noted that the Xbox 360 was doing a significant amount of business to non-gaming customers because it offered a better experience than the 'Smart TVs' of that era. The 360 or PS3's 512MB may seem tiny today but those TVs produced between 2005 and 2010 were most often getting by with far less. They were also constrained in the amount of flash memory they had for storing the apps, which limited the feature sets.

As with HDTVs, the more affordable 4K screens with fewer frills are likely to dominate the market, making the functionality of the external box chosen by the user the place where the interaction with services happens.

 
Thanks for the clarification epobirs. I guess it makes sense, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't necessary.

I was also wondering if PSVR might have been a factor in more power but Sony seems fairly confident that current hardware can handle it fine.

I'm kinda torn at the moment on the new PS4. I just got a new HDTV that's 4K. It's a cheapo one but picture quality apparently isn't bad. I don't have any 4K capable devices outside of my laptop and PC so I've been thinking about something for my entertainment area. A Roku 4 is $100+ by itself and if the PS4K is $400 (no idea if that's even reasonable) and has any other benefits, I might as well trade in my old PS4 towards a new console. :whistle2:k
Until there is further info, I think it's safe to assume Sony wants to keep the price at the same number that was well received when the PS4 launched.

The PSVR does include a small box that aids in some aspects (Sony says it's mainly audio) and it is entirely possible that box's functions can be incorporated in the new hardware to reduce the cost, though it would mean producing a separate SKU of the PSVR package, which already is looking to have at least two SKUs, with and without the camera and Move controllers. So there would be a certain amount of hassle and added complexity at the retail end, which in turn means the savings has to be fairly significant to make it worthwhile for everyone affected.

 
In general, unless you already own or are planning to buy a 4K TV AND purchase 4K content, either by streaming subscription or on disc, there won't be any pressing reason to get the new models.

If you're a CAG you've probably had plenty of experience with exercising patience to get what you wanted for the right price. You also know that these types of things tend to improve as they become more affordable. So, unless you're really ready to commit to the 4K investment before 2018, you may be better off waiting for the next full console generation, as that will have all of the new features and much more.

That may not be entirely true in one aspect. The industry in general really prefers online delivery. By the time of the next generation, things may have progressed to the point where including an optical drive in the base hardware is no longer needed. I don't think support for disc will go away entirely that soon but it may be treated as an optional accessory to enable existing disc content, be it games or video.

 
That is simply not true. Many 4K TVs, especially at the lower price points, do not have app functionality and even those that do typically provide a greatly inferior experience to apps on the consoles. The TVs have much less processor performance and RAM, and usually no local storage or support for user added storage. Microsoft noted that the Xbox 360 was doing a significant amount of business to non-gaming customers because it offered a better experience than the 'Smart TVs' of that era. The 360 or PS3's 512MB may seem tiny today but those TVs produced between 2005 and 2010 were most often getting by with far less. They were also constrained in the amount of flash memory they had for storing the apps, which limited the feature sets.

As with HDTVs, the more affordable 4K screens with fewer frills are likely to dominate the market, making the functionality of the external box chosen by the user the place where the interaction with services happens.
Ehh, I feellikepeople buying these budget 4kTVs probably wont be interested in spending the same amount on a console... they are probably going to go with the cheaper OG PS4. My Samsung JU7100 runs all apps very well, but yes my oldercSamsung smart TV is pretty slow as far as running apps go.

Anyway Imnot interested in more streaming options as my TV already does that fine, if this new model doesnt play UHD BDs then I have no interest in buying a PS4 for a 3rd time, especially since I like my Taken King LE.
 
Ehh, I feellikepeople buying these budget 4kTVs probably wont be interested in spending the same amount on a console... they are probably going to go with the cheaper OG PS4. My Samsung JU7100 runs all apps very well, but yes my oldercSamsung smart TV is pretty slow as far as running apps go.

Anyway Imnot interested in more streaming options as my TV already does that fine, if this new model doesnt play UHD BDs then I have no interest in buying a PS4 for a 3rd time, especially since I like my Taken King LE.
Why would anyone buy a 4K screen if they weren't intent on accessing 4K content? The lack of good options for accessing material that makes proper use of the screen has been one of the factors holding back sales now that prices are in overlap with the high-end of 1080p TVs. The home video industry, looking back on the transition in HDTV sales after Blu-ray was launched with the PS3 (along with the stillborn HD-DVD as an add-on for the Xbox 360), likely hope to see the same increase of interest by getting the content delivery into a form with high recognition, the Playstation and Xbox brands.

Whether this will work again for them remains to be seen but there are likely significant incentives being dangled in front of the console makers to move on this sooner than later. Cheap 4K gaming just cannot be delivered yet, but a box that does 4K video playback and 1080p-ish gaming for around $400 is within reach this year.

 
the next xbox system will not be 1.5 it will be xbox two and i hope they make an upgrade tv that does everything the first one did plus 4k and more

 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-05-massive-god-of-war-4-leak-points-to-norse-mythology-setting 

And so there are rumors that games might use the added horses. I mean, really, if they're gonna make the system more powerful, why not make sure of the extra power? 

I've seen some of the recent vids of Uncharted 4 and I couldn't help but wonder "is this really running on a PS4?" but now I'm wondering if it might not be running on a PS4K. 

Oh a sidenote, God of War in a Norse setting might be even more awesome than the Greek setting. Norse mythology is so fucking weird and awesome. 

 
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If they're really issuing a refresh of the console just to support 4K display and VR applications, then whatever, I don't care.

If games are going to perform differently, ehhh... I'm sure they're going to say that the existing console will be the "baseline" experience and the new console will be the "enhanced" experience... but let's face it, what will happen is that the new console will run the "acceptable" version of the game and the old console will run the "last-gen Shadow of Mordor port" version. I don't really want to be a second-class citizen on the same console.

 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-05-massive-god-of-war-4-leak-points-to-norse-mythology-setting

And so there are rumors that games might use the added horses. I mean, really, if they're gonna make the system more powerful, why not make sure of the extra power?

I've seen some of the recent vids of Uncharted 4 and I couldn't help but wonder "is this really running on a PS4?" but now I'm wondering if it might not be running on a PS4K.

Oh a sidenote, God of War in a Norse setting might be even more awesome than the Greek setting. Norse mythology is so fucking weird and awesome.
I would bet money against it. This has been widely promoted as a game exclusively for the existing PS4 for over a year. To turn around at the last minute and say you need a new model to get the advertised quality would open them up to all sorts of trouble, No, what you're seeing is simply intense optimization focused on a single platform and given substantially greater funding than the average game. This is a huge flagship bet for Sony and they'll tune it within an inch of its life to make it as good as the machine can produce.

 
Worst case:  No worries, publishers still make games that also play on the 360/PS3.   and there's a much bigger gap there.

I doubt this is much more than plays 4k streams/upscales to 4k with possibly some extra power for the upcoming VR stuff.  

 
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I think the idea is good but if they don't give current owners an upgrade path that would really stink
Yeah I don't see how they would appeal to their current user base. I have a launch X1 console with the Kinect which they more or less dumped along the way as it is, but a new console altogether? I don't want to drop another 4 or 5 hundred bones on a new console. Would they be willing to take the old console back and offer a deep discount for current users? I'd be willing to upgrade (if the specs are that much better) for around 100 if that works but no more than that.

Also what does this mean for current users that don't upgrade?

 
I'm pretty amused by the idea that people who bought a PS3 for Final Fantasy Versus XIII... and then bought a PS4 for Final Fantasy XV... could potentially now need to buy a PS4 Neo for Final Fantasy XV "Neo Mode."

 
Looks like the PS4K won't have a UHD BD ROM, so I have no interest in it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
I'm really confused by all of this... on one hand, it seems like developers can make use of the extra power in the Neo (as long as they don't make a game Neo only) but on the other, they're not including support of UHD BDs?

I'm guessing they're pushing for more digital content but with the caps and cost of internet in my area, not to mention digital content being laughably overpriced, I'm pretty torn on this.

 
Looking at those specs I don't know how the hell it's supposed to be 4k....

If it's not 4k then I don't need it and certainly don't want it.

 
Looking at those specs I don't know how the hell it's supposed to be 4k....

If it's not 4k then I don't need it and certainly don't want it.
Feel like this is gonna cause a lot of problems... so many people thinking it's 4K gaming. It's not, it's for 4K video, albeit, streaming only... no UHDBD support. Which seems pretty dumb. But it's also gonna help gaming performance?

I feel think this is Sony just giving developers more horsepower and using the 4K steaming support to avoid admitting to as such.

 
Well the Xbox One S came out of nowhere and will support UHD Blu-Ray so I will be making that upgrade is August. No interest in Scorpio since I have a good gaming PC, but I am also excited that all future first party games will be cross buy and play. Way to go Microsoft!

Who wants to buy my Advanced Warfare LE X1? :)
 
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