CAGcast #451: Shitty Like a Fox

The gang discusses Doom, critics playing Doom poorly, Uncharted 4, critics reviewing Uncharted 4 poorly, Ghostbusters, and critics refusing to review Ghostbusters, and so much more!

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro -   Diplo & Sleepy Tom - Be Right There (Goblins From Mars Trap Remix)

Outro - Crazy Like a Fox TV Theme
 

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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

Team Fortress 2 was not originally free, but it's been free for like the past 5 or 6 years.

While I ended up enjoying Overwatch in the couple of beta phases I played in, I absolutely agree with Shipwreck and Wombat in that the animated movies are a thousand times more interesting than the actual game. I also don't think it's worth $40 (or 60), but I'm a cheapass. (And this is the site to be one!)

I don't understand the mentality of "Looks like crap, but I'll go see it." You only have so much time on this planet, spend it watching something you know might be good. For example, I like Ninja turtles. Saw the trailer for the first Micheal Bay Ninja Turtles reboot movie, thought it sucked. Reviews came out and said it sucked, and didn't waste my time. My memories of Ninja Turtles remain positive, and I didn't waste 2 hours.

Also, when was the last time you talked about the Angry Video Game Nerd? Sounds like a smart marketing move to me.

I finished UC4 just to make sure I still don't like interactive movie games because I'm with Wombat when it comes to cutscenes.  It's not why I buy games.  

I either want to be playing the game and mashing buttons or  be totally vegging out on the couch and not touching a button.   I don't like the in-between where you're watching a movie but the movie is frequently prompting you  to hit a button in order to continue.  

I think UC4 gets such high marks because it delivers the high production values that justify owning a PS4.

I had fun with the combat even though there's a lot that's (still) annoying about it.  And I think that's because the combat is the only real game part of this "game."  The rest is just going through the motions.

Anyway similar feeling about the game as you guys except I think the story is pretty meh/stereotypical/b-movie stuff.  As Carmack said, "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

I had fun, but it  is 4-5 hours too long.  A lot of the story could have been/should have been covered in the banter between characters  while you're slowly walking around or  endlessly climbing.    Or in a text or diary or quick speakerphone  conversation. A few lines regarding the gist of a plot point would have been enough.   The game didn't need to make a whole chapter with boring gameplay to cover a story arc.  It didn't have to be a slave to the narrative. 

Hey Shipwreck.  What about Shipwrecked, or maybe ShipRekt?

Also, I'm on chapter 18 of Uncharted 4 but I don't like it as much as the others.  The areas are just too open, even the most linear ones and there are several times that grind to a halt because you can't find the location you're supposed to jump to in this fairly large area.  The early games I've had no problem with it but this game it just seems too frequent that this happens.  The shooting feels a little meh as well, whether you're moving the right analog to aim the camera or when trying to aim, there seems to be a slight deadzone that weren't on 1, 2, and 3.  Golden Abyss was similar that had a deadzone you had to get used to, although the rest of the game in Golden Abyss were better.  Storyline though in Uncharted 4 is the best in the series.

Shipwreck hits the nail on the head with my opinion with regards to Uncharted for the most part. Cohesiveness. Also he mentions that the games continually garner high scores. To me its just seems after 4 modern Naughty Dog titles (Unchated 1-3 and Last of Us)  I am treated to pretty production values and fairly shallow gameplay / interactivity.

Wombat,

Why do you intentionally mispronounce internet terms/companies often? I notice that hacky radio DJs do the same thing as well.

For instance you often say:

The Internets

The Google

The Interwebs

On a comedic scale of 1 (Prop Comics) to 10 (Seeing Someone Get Kicked in the Balls) I would say it's a solid 1.

EA Access seems perfect for Wombat.

Sports games and multiplayer shooters!

I think the same people that stand in iPhone lines for pay will also camp out for a nickname for the right price!!!  

Anything after Robocop 2 could be considered as a travesty to the franchise, so I shrug at the various reboots anyway. And James Rolfe kept mostly silent about the four Transformers movies. It feels like his issues with New Ghostbusters might go deeper than one might think if he's willing to go on the internet at start behaving like his 24 year old self, which he addressed in his latest episode.

I got my Xbox Live name changed the last time they freed up a bunch of names, and it wasn't free. And it was my first ever Xbox Live name change.

Condoms would have been much more embarrassing because normally a 40-something married man in America would only need condoms if he was cheating on his wife, given how easily accessible the pill and vasectomies are here if you have health insurance.

Did Shipwreck ever get Shipwreck?

I just checked out that Arthur Gies Doom video since it came up on the show.  I listened to the podcast Arthur is on for years in the past (Rebel FM) so I am pretty familiar with him, if not a big fan of any site he was on or his reviews in particular.  It's pretty crazy to see that's him playing.  I mean, I don't need anyone to be great but boy he is really bad. He is totally a FPS guy.  He is a giant Halo fan for example and I believe played those games a lot online.  Also loved the last Rainbox Six games.  Big on Far Cry as well.  I would say in reviews he is kind of a shooter specialist if anything (though he reviews other games as well).

I hardly even care about the sanctity of reviews and all that like some crazy fans out there, but just as someone familiar with him it's pretty funny to see that video.

As far as Uncharted goes, I have to agree about it being a bit overrated score wise.  If there's one thing I do find annoying in reviews it is the double standard when it comes to innovation.  Reviewers will give Uncharted 4 a great score but then when Doom comes along some say it isn't an "evolution of the formula" and give it a lesser score, even though it actually is doing some interesting things to bring back fast old FPS games.  There's not that much consistency with how they treat that subject.  I also find they just don't appreciate games that excel in raw mechanics (like Doom does with shooting) enough over flashy graphics, cutscenes, and setpieces like Uncharted.  But that's why I just go to a few specific people for reviews now.

I don't understand why anyone gets their underwear in a knot over Ghostbusters. I mean, the original was good, but it wasn't life changing. Some people are acting like the new movie is an affront to God and nature. I just don't see the big deal. A reboot of an ok movie, big whoop.

Also, they couldn't recapture the fun in Ghostbusters 2, so I don't know why anyone would expect the new movie to be better.

Wombat's been on fire lately.  His commentary on Arthur Gies's Doom live stream and Notch calling him out killed me.

_____________________________________________

Cheapy:  "I mean, Notch called him out.  Notch, I mean, he's got four million followers."

Wombat:  "Yes, Notch and his four million followers... and lots of free time."

Cheapy:  "Right and four billion dollars."

Wombat:  "Four billion dollars of loneliness."

______________________________________________

Wombat (to Cheapy):  "He's like you -- but with more money!"

______________________________________________

Wombat (advice to Notch):  "Take a breather.  Go outside. Eat some candy in your candy store in your house... Find that guy that washes your testicles for you.  Yell at him for a little bit."

______________________________________________

Klassisch!

This episode was fantastic, had everything you want in a CAGcast. Cheapy telling stories about his daily life of gardening and awkward parent meeting. Shipwreck with solid game reactions and him randomly reading the suggested shipwreck gamer tags. Wombat was on his game with witty comebacks and witty one liners. You guys are killing it.

Diffenetly want to know how amazing Cheapy's bathroom visits are now.

Beatles said:

This episode was fantastic, had everything you want in a CAGcast. Cheapy telling stories about his daily life of gardening and awkward parent meeting. Shipwreck with solid game reactions and him randomly reading the suggested shipwreck gamer tags. Wombat was on his game with witty comebacks and witty one liners. You guys are killing it.

Diffenetly want to know how amazing Cheapy's bathroom visits are now.

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I completely agree. After listening to it i thought "That was a really good episode." Good work guys.

I disagree that the gameplay hasn't changed in Uncharted 4. The new stealth mechanics make it more enjoyable and more viable, and the shooting is more fun than in U3 where the enemies were annoyingly aggressive even on Normal. I cleared a whole area with stealth in Scotland and it felt great. I'm 99% sure I never did that in the last game, certainly not in the infamously frustrating Ship's Graveyard level. Here's a video of it.

https://youtu.be/hWt-TutGKos

Multiplayer looks fantastic, and has bots to let you practice before playing against other people. They made a huge effort to make getting into multiplayer more accessible.

skadave said:

I completely agree. After listening to it i thought "That was a really good episode." Good work guys.

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Agree 100% The last few episodes have been great and Wombat's been cracking some pretty good jokes (that mostly go over Cheapy and Ship's head in the moment).

I also subscribed to EA Access last week. Downloaded a few games, played a bit of Battlefield 4 but it seems impenetrable at this point. I had no idea what menu items to pick, what DLC this game comes with or how to play. Frontline seemed cool from the early single player missions. Like playing a bad 90s cop show.

Keep it up guys.

If you guys are referring to / watched the initial Polygon Doom vid, that wasn't Arthur Gies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aegies/status/730947990777520128

Imagine that's why in the twitter snippet that was brought up he was hesitant to stream it. All the backlash from the first video.

echo65 said:

If you guys are referring to / watched the initial Polygon Doom vid, that wasn't Arthur Gies.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aegies/status/730947990777520128

Imagine that's why in the twitter snippet that was brought up he was hesitant to stream it. All the backlash from the first video.

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Thanks for clarifying. I thought I had read he wasn't actually playing, but then thought I was crazy.

Regarding the video itself, let's establish that it was hilarious. The player was horrendously bad. Shockingly bad. This wasn't some random person's live stream. It was someone representing one of the biggest videogame sites around. It was a mistake for Polygon to allow it to be uploaded on their official channel. It's a common joke that games media is terrible at videogames, and this only confirmed it. The person was obviously uncomfortable with dual analog controls, which has been standard console controls going on 15 years. This isn't a uniquely controlling game. If you're competent in Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War, Destiny, Borderlands, Portal, etc, etc, the skills transfer directly over. I'm not convinced the person has played a first or third person game on consoles within the past 10 years. We saw that reticle. It was not pretty.

Polygon attempts to be seen as an authority on games. If that was not the case, why would anyone listen to their opinions? In that spirit, why would management allow such a terribly-played video on their channel? It hurts their image and brand, confirming our worst suspicions about their basic gaming skills.

I can't say I feel bad for anyone. The player is anonymous, and Polygon as a whole takes the credibility hit. And the dank memes that flowed were great.

eataburger said:

Agree 100% The last few episodes have been great and Wombat's been cracking some pretty good jokes (that mostly go over Cheapy and Ship's head in the moment).

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Oh, I'm pretty sure they get em! They just don't think they're funny or don't want to give Wombat that satisfaction.

its funny to hear you all say its not a good enough reason not to review the movie. who the are any of you to decide that? 

James very much is someone to clearly point out why he is doing something. Clearly stated he was biased and it was important to him, among other reasons. But nope, CAGCAST just summed it up down to a couple lines.

It absolutely would be an easy review, but maybe its about more than making another 1 million hit video? All your decisions should matter, even those that see meaningless. Even then no one else gets to decide its good enough.

Anyone who actually watched the "no review", would've understood or had more to say if their views were different.

All the bosses in Doom are in the last 1/3rd of the game, just an fyi cheapy.

I don't know the logistics of how James Rolfe earns his income, but the vibe I get is he's not a professional critic. He's a guy who likes making videos and talking about movies, but is under no obligation to review and watch every single new film that comes out. In fact, he analyzes older horror movies in his Monster Madness series. The James Rolfe movie buff is a different persona than the Angry Video Game Nerd. The backlash he got was ridiculous. It was really bizarre seeing Patton Oswalt and Dane Cook take shots at him for not wanting to see it. 

For Polygon's Doom video, I don't tend to get elitist about someone having to be good at a series to play it, but the situation is a bit different if it's someone's job is to play and analyze video games on a regular basis. One analogy I heard is that it would be like having someone talk to you about a new car's features who doesn't even have a driver's license. I wouldn't go to my mom for an opinion on a new smartphone she bought if all she knew what to do on it was make phone calls.

CheapyPoop is available, but not CheapyDoody (

Good show. Gamefly is pretty much the "EA Access" for all publishers for consoles. For ~$120 a year you can play all the retail games from every publisher on any console. I've been a member for years and love it.  I know Cheapy uses it, I wonder why Wombat doesn't.  It's a much better value than EA Access.    

In regards to James Rolfe's video, I think the point he was trying to get across wasn't just that he refused to review the video because he doesn't like it, but more the fact that if he already doesn't like what he sees from the trailer, then he doesn't want to give them any money. He says something like "if this is the Ghostbusters movie that nobody wanted, then the box-office results should reflect it", which seems like a much more valid reason than "I'm not watching it because it disrespects what I believes the franchise is and should be."

Did I really just listen to 3 people who have played (at most) 40% of a game explain that the review scores must be wrong and the game must be an 8.5 at most?

I can understand that personal experiences do matter. But I would suggest you experience all those personal experiences before reaching a conclusion.

I do agree Rise of the Tomb Raider is a totally different feel. It's better in some ways, especially if you tire of climbing easily. But having finished Uncharted 4 there's no question in my mind it's the better game. The story is far better and the combat is much better, especially the design of the levels you fight in.

Play Uncharted 4 through. Then go back and watch some videos of other people playing it. You'll most likely notice that people did the major battles in entirely different ways than you did. For example, I fought my way along the rooftops in the Madagascar city level (chapter 11) while other people fight their way along the ground, through the center stalls or the edge ones. There is nothing comparable to that in Tomb Raider, it's a much deeper design.

And then there's the multiplayer, which is excellent and Tomb Raider doesn't have any of.

Tomb Raider is an excellent game and I loved it. MS was very wise to buy an exclusive on it and if their money was key to the game being made then it was a win for every gamer (Xbox, PC or PS4) that MS put forth the money to ensure that game was made. But objectively Uncharted 4 is a better game. And while that may not mean every reviewer would give Uncharted 4 a better score, it does mean that in the aggregate Uncharted 4 would be expected to have a higher average score.

I saw the Gies Doom video. It didn't seem like an enormous thing to me. Yeah, he's not great at it, but it didn't seem scandalous to me.

I've finished Uncharted 4 now and disagree with just about every opinion you have about it and Tomb Raider. Sticking with my 8.5.