CAGcast #480: Needs More Smurfberries

CheapyD

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The gang wraps up 2016 with talk about Super Mario Run, Overwatch, and a heated debate on the Wii U. Stay tuned after the show for a spoiler-filled Rogue One discussion.  See you next year!
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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro -   Louis the Child & Icona Pop - Weekend (SNBRN Remix)
Outro - Anakin and Obi Wan vs Count Dooku but everytime lightsabres clash, Anakin says I don't like sand


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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.


 
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Stick around for the Rogue One spoilers and get bonus ***** spoilers... Guess I won't play it now. Oh well, too many games as it is.

Rogue One spoiler
He was a real dude in Episode III
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Nintendo took a long time getting out WiiU titles because they were all busy typing in incomprehensible friend codes.
 
I really enjoyed the show this week.  A little bit of a heated discussion really spiced it up.  While a discussion of the why the Wii U failed might not sound very interesting I found it to actually be quite engaging.  The last few CAGcasts did not feel like they had tons of substance.  It felt like it was just “Yeah I bought this game and played it.  Blah Blah Blah.”  This episode really delved into some deeper conversations about the world of gaming.

Wombat’s comment of Nintendo’s properties sells Nintendo Hardware is spot on.  Honestly if Nintendo would give up on making hardware and focus 100% of its efforts into making games, the company’s value would go through the roof.  With Microsoft struggling right now in the console war against Sony, I am sure Microsoft would float a cargo ship full of gold to Nintendo to have Nintendo give up on the Switch and release all their games on the Xbox One.   Although this whole “the Switch is a Phantom console” is really out there in LA LA land.  We have seen the thing on late night TV and the specs are being leaked all the time.

If Nintendo is making developers develop two version of every game that is probably as bad of an idea as New Coke and Windows 8.
 

I am looking forward to the first CAGCast of 2017

 
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What's with Cheapy not wanting Tai to play the 3DS?
How is wanting to play different games a bad thing?

And Wombat is crazy, Super Mario Maker is definitely a traditional Mario platforming game. It came with over 100 levels made by Nintendo, plus the other half of the game is allowing players to make and share their own levels.

 
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Extremely sorry about the game spoiler in the rogue one spoiler section. I've fixed the audio but please don't mention which game was spoiled otherwise it still may spoil for other listeners. Thanks and sorry.
 
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Ship is extremely optimistic about the Switch, saying it will sell well and make Nintendo boatloads of money.  I wouldn't go that far, especially if Zelda gets pushed back.

Also, I'm pretty sure Jedi is the plural version of Jedi.

 
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The fact that Shipwreck is so dam angry at Wombat is funny. I enjoy the Nintendo games greatly, but having a Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 meant I bought 3rd party titles there. This also meant I turned down buying a Wii U simply because I didnt want a console with a tiny library that collected dust. 

Sorry but Nintendo had a shitty library by the time the other consoles were in full swing and if they had more of their IP's on the system, It may have helped their sales. 

Just because you have a system on your shelf, doesnt make the guy without it unqualified to talk about it either. The Wii U failed because of WHEN it came out, the limited library and the crappy online it fails to modernize. 

 
lol Wombat. Ship is right. You're pulling stuff outta yer ass. I also think that not owning a system does disqualify you on lots of levels to talk about said system except why you didn't buy it.

Mario Maker has lots of levels created by Nintendo themselves. It's a 2d SMB game that plays like a 2d SMB game. IT's the same genre. I think if anything having a Mario Maker in addition to SMB U makes the system more appealing than having 2 SMB U games.

Wii U games weren't coming out in Japan a year before the US. Pikmin 3 came out a few weeks earlier in Japan.

Metroid isn't a big franchise either. The entire Metroid Prime series has sold under 8 million. That's 4 games plus a compilation. Not going to move the needle for the Switch nor would it have for the Wii U.


Also the argument that it doesn't have enough games, and that's why you didn't buy it, falls apart coming from someone that bought an X1 in addition to the PS4. (you did right??!?!) How many more games is the X1 providing you over and above the PS4 than the Wii U would? I think you get Gears, Halo and Forza and not much else by buying an X1 in addition to a PS4. With a Wii U you would get a ton more original games to play that that, over and above what the PS4 offers, if it was your second system instead. Just sayin.

Wii U was too costly. And marketed horribly. Not sure why it had Wii name when it had nothing to do with motion control. IT's almost like they said lets make a slower Gamecube, relatively speaking, pair it with an expensive controller so we can sell it for $100 more and have less 3rd party support than the GC, but we'll make up for that by slapping the Wii name on it.
 
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Switch was never going to be an X1 or PS4 in power.  That was obvious because you knew it wasn't going to be $400 and you knew if they could do Ps4/X1 power for $200 then the X1 S and PS4 Slim would have been even smaller and/or cheaper.  

And yeah of course the Switch  isn't going to be a DS because all the casuals have been lost to phones and tablets. 

But remember a ton of those casuals were people  like my Mom who bought a DS and bought like one puzzle or word game for it.  

And the Last Blockbuster article is dumb.  Nintendo is in such a unique position that there is really zero comparison to Motorola and Nokia being wiped out by better phones.  Nintendo was never in the phone business.  Not only are they not just  a hardware maker, that's not even their primary business.  They are a game maker and entertainment company first and foremost.  The fact they didn't make mobile games until now doesn't prevent them from succeeding in that space going forward.  That's unlike the position Motorola and Nokia found themselves in after a competitor made a better phone, left those companies years behind  and took over the market.  Nintendo's handheld sales also never on the scale of the mobile phone market.  It was always a niche compared to that.  Plus Nintendo's handheld business makes them money still while it's their console business that has been losing money.  

Switch needs to be cheap.   $200 would be a godsend,  $250 doable, but  $300 would be looking pricey.  It has to be nice and easy to use too.  It needs to have a good gimmick (you know there's going to be one,) and mobile can't spread their development capability spread too thin.

I really think between the new Zelda and the fact that one system will have all things Nintendo plus let you play on the screen you desire (tv or handheld) that it does as well as the 3ds overall which would give Nintendo a decent business still.   I think the clean marketing break from the Wii and DS will also help it greatly.  But price has to be right.  And the system has to be fairly slick.  

The Switch seems like an acknowledgement that  Nintendo doesn't have a lot of console customers left and therefore they'll  just add those customers to their handheld by giving the handheld the ability to play on the tv and use a full-sized controller.  

I think Nintendo's mobile games can continue to steer customers toward their dedicated stuff  which should help sales.  

Also if this thing can be a decent mini-tablet....man that would go a long way.  If it could actually surf the net and surf it well!?!??  Not holding my breath.  But some good  tablet functionality will help sell it to parents.  I mean my youngest kid is using my old Ipad 2.  If this thing can surf the 'net better than that??!?!?  That would be a big selling pt.  

 
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Well I deleted the show after seeing on Twitter, but it never reappeared in my podcast app feed? So I had to direct download from the site so don't know what happened there.

I like the Twin Peaks reverse talk to blur the spoiler - sounded cool.

I am with Wombat, Mario Maker isn't a traditional Mario game. It's not sold or marketed as one. It's Mario MAKER, regardless of the game shipping with over 100 Nintendo designed levels. 

 
I disagree with Cheapy calling Overwatch mainstream. It's popular with gamers but ask regular people on the street about Overwatch and you'll get blank stares. Mainstream is Mario, Call of Duty, Pokémon, Halo, Minecraft,etc. Even people who don't play know that space game, that war game, that block game.
 
Angry Shipwreck is the best Shipwreck.  Honest disagreement between friends makes for a great show.

I actually think both of you had good points. Wombat was right about the slow drip of system selling games for Wii U.  The lack of 3rd party support made that problem exponentially worse. Without a price drop, there was no compelling jumping on point for those who did not have the console already and didn't want to just have a $300 Mario Kart machine. But I did feel like Wombat undercut his argument talking about Mario Maker and the 1 year delay. 

I think Shipwreck is awfully optimistic about the Switch.  There is nothing that indicates that yet another mid console cycle Nintendo system will be ready to compete with X1S & Scorpion and PS4Slim & PS4Pro with a full library of quality discounted games that will look and play better then most of what Nintendo will have to offer beyond Mario3D/2D, Mario Kart, Zelda and Smash Brothers.  Especially when at best only two of those games will be available in the first year.

I think Cheapy D was right last week when he was worried about the bad will Nintendo is building up with the NES Classic. Now you have average consumers and fans angry about the Mario Run paywall and that together may bring a feeling of apathy with the Switch release.

 
Why do people continue to defend Nintendo? They have lost money by failing to do things wisely and yet people will continuously act outraged when others talk down on Nintendo products.

What if I dont like 800 variations on Mario? The talk of Nintendo exclusives being so great in utter nonsense when I cant buy a Zelda game on the dam console. 

I personally love variety, I dont need to play all Mario games or Niche titles that may be great but arent for me. I owned a 32X....I'm not saying the Wii U was bad like the 32X but the library of games worth buying was really limited in my case so I'm sure I wasnt alone.

Does me not owning the console invalidate this opinion? 

 
Loved the WiiU talk! Gotta give Wombat the slight advantage... As a WiiU owner, I didn't get enough software in a timely manner to justify the console. I kept thinking, "Ohhhh! The games are in development and they'll really roll in next holiday. That new Zelda game will be cool." Boy, was I wrong.

Not to mention that the system software was ssoooooooo slloooooowww until they patched it up (but not until the Internet branded this the slowest-newest-console). Not good Nintendo.

When I finally sold my WiiU, I looked at my library and I only had a few disc games and a few digital games still in my library. I sold my disc games knowing Nintendo will just make them again for their next system and the download titles were almost all on STEAM if they were third party.

Here's hoping that 2017 is a good year for everyone and the Switch is really, really good.

 
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Was REALLY looking forward to some Swedish arcade cabinet talk in this episode after being teased on Twitter. I'm hoping to get the full scoop on the next CAGCast.

 
Without spoilers, I completely agree with all the complaints Cheapy and Shipwreck had about Rogue One - like how I remember NONE of the characters' names, which never happens to me from a Star Wars movie. I thought it might just be me and I was being too nit-picky. It's definitely solidly the 5th best Star Wars, there's a lot sloppiness there for all the awesome things. They should've just focused more on the stuff that was going on in the third act, trimmed the character/location names, and gave us more action.

 
The WiiU is a great console and it's a shame that it didn't sell very well. It was a breath of fresh air after the Wii. Remember all the crappy shovel ware that came out for the Wii? I used to walk into Target and be disgusted at the entire aisle full of Wii crap. I think Iwata wanted to pivot towards the core Nintendo audience with the WiiU. They finally delivered digital HD gaming on a Nintendo platform. Super Mario 3D World looks amazing. So does DK Tropical Freeze and Mario Kart 8 and all the other games. The game pad is clunky but you can also play games on it and that's really the cool thing about it. Maybe play Super Metroid while watching football? Awesome.

Nintendo screwed up big time by not separating the WiiU from the Wii. A lot of people didn't see the need to get another Wii. The price has always been terrible and first party games are always MSRP. It is still a great console and kind of sad that it gets shat upon so much. I am glad that some IPs like Splatoon are carrying forward with the Switch because games like Splatoon should not be misssd.
 
Does me not owning the console invalidate this opinion?
yes. The Wii U was not for you.

no one mentioned the obvious with the Wii U, the controller with screen was clunky and not well used. The launch titles were already rehashes of old PS3/ Xbox 360 games. and the price was high.

HOWEVER,,

As it stands, the WiiU is now a great console and has tons of great games. Super Mario 3d world is a classic, Mario Maker which is a true Mario Game, Splatoon is a fun innovative shooter, great versions of Mario Kart & Smash Bros, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3; niche fun titles like Bayonetta 2 and Toad's Treasure tracker and Paper Mario color splash

 
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The Wii U didn't have a ton of games but it got twice as many, twice as quick than it did in Wombat's World.
 
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The Wii U didn't have a ton of games but it got twice as many, twice as quick than it did in Wombat's World.
Wombat has been teetering on unbearable lately and this episode he finally went over the line. I guess it's time for my twice yearly break from the Cagcast for a few weeks because of it.

 
Awesome Cagcast this week, really enjoyed the Wii U discussion.

As a Wii U owner, the library is great now but was lacking early in its life cycle. Additionally, I've played Fallout 4 the most of any game in this generation (on the PS4). Unless the Switch gets the support of these third parties and they have a decent trophy/achievement system, it will continue to be a second system only for the die hard Nintendo fans.

Happy Hanukkah Cheapy and Wombat and Merry Christmas Ship. Hoping for a great 2017 for the Cagcast as well.
 
I may have to disagree with Shipwreck and CheapyD's review on Rogue One. Personally I rate the movie much higher than last year's Force Awaken which I thought was a rehash of episode 4 only it has different characters switched to play different roles (example: Han Solo substituted for Obi Wan because he died. Rey is a female version of Luke Skywalker. BB8 is the substitute for R2D2 Etc. Etc). 

Cheapy was correct about not remembering anyone's name but honestly I don't remember the black storm trooper or the fighter pilot in Force Awakens. Rogue One was more of an ensemble film whereas Force Awakens was all about Rey. Also Rogue One had better dialog than Force Awakens. I never felt the banter between Rey and the black stormtrooper was realistic but in Rogue One's case, everything felt a bit more natural. 

Another point Cheapy made was that Forrest Whittaker was a throw-away role. I have to disagree. He was in the movie to show how fragmented the rebel alliance was. It was made of various splinter groups who all opposed the empire but at the same time could not get along with each other. The fact the Forrest's role in the film was brief made it all the better.

I do agree with Shipwreck and Cheapy that the CGI recreation of Peter Cushing has something to be desired; He does have the dead eye look. Princess Leah did not fare better; It would of been ok if they showed her from behind. With that hairstyle, everyone would know it was Princess Leah and she didn't have to say any lines. I also agree that the episodes 1-3 are an abomination but I think that's the general consensus shared by everyone. 

As for Rogue One, I would say it's the third best Star Wars film right after Episode 4 and Empire Strikes Back. 

 
I may have to disagree with Shipwreck and CheapyD's review on Rogue One. Personally I rate the movie much higher than last year's Force Awaken which I thought was a rehash of episode 4 only it has different characters switched to play different roles (example: Han Solo substituted for Obi Wan because he died. Rey is a female version of Luke Skywalker. BB8 is the substitute for R2D2 Etc. Etc).

Cheapy was correct about not remembering anyone's name but honestly I don't remember the black storm trooper or the fighter pilot in Force Awakens. Rogue One was more of an ensemble film whereas Force Awakens was all about Rey. Also Rogue One had better dialog than Force Awakens. I never felt the banter between Rey and the black stormtrooper was realistic but in Rogue One's case, everything felt a bit more natural.

Another point Cheapy made was that Forrest Whittaker was a throw-away role. I have to disagree. He was in the movie to show how fragmented the rebel alliance was. It was made of various splinter groups who all opposed the empire but at the same time could not get along with each other. The fact the Forrest's role in the film was brief made it all the better.

I do agree with Shipwreck and Cheapy that the CGI recreation of Peter Cushing has something to be desired; He does have the dead eye look. Princess Leah did not fare better; It would of been ok if they showed her from behind. With that hairstyle, everyone would know it was Princess Leah and she didn't have to say any lines. I also agree that the episodes 1-3 are an abomination but I think that's the general consensus shared by everyone.

As for Rogue One, I would say it's the third best Star Wars film right after Episode 4 and Empire Strikes Back.
The dialog was better, yes. But everything Jyn said was straight from a recruiting poster or motivational speech.

 
I own a Wii U and didn't know about 3 Mario games, ha ha.  I understand what Wombat meant and somewhat what Ship meant with the Nintendo stuff. 

 
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I may have to disagree with Shipwreck and CheapyD's review on Rogue One. Personally I rate the movie much higher than last year's Force Awaken which I thought was a rehash of episode 4 only it has different characters switched to play different roles (example: Han Solo substituted for Obi Wan because he died. Rey is a female version of Luke Skywalker. BB8 is the substitute for R2D2 Etc. Etc).

Cheapy was correct about not remembering anyone's name but honestly I don't remember the black storm trooper or the fighter pilot in Force Awakens. Rogue One was more of an ensemble film whereas Force Awakens was all about Rey. Also Rogue One had better dialog than Force Awakens. I never felt the banter between Rey and the black stormtrooper was realistic but in Rogue One's case, everything felt a bit more natural.

Another point Cheapy made was that Forrest Whittaker was a throw-away role. I have to disagree. He was in the movie to show how fragmented the rebel alliance was. It was made of various splinter groups who all opposed the empire but at the same time could not get along with each other. The fact the Forrest's role in the film was brief made it all the better.

I do agree with Shipwreck and Cheapy that the CGI recreation of Peter Cushing has something to be desired; He does have the dead eye look. Princess Leah did not fare better; It would of been ok if they showed her from behind. With that hairstyle, everyone would know it was Princess Leah and she didn't have to say any lines. I also agree that the episodes 1-3 are an abomination but I think that's the general consensus shared by everyone.

As for Rogue One, I would say it's the third best Star Wars film right after Episode 4 and Empire Strikes Back.
Good summary.

 
Wombat was spot on this episode!   Mario Maker is not a regular Mario game.  It's basically Mario Big Planet (or Mario Minecraft). The purpose of the game was to "create your own levels"  hence the word "maker" in the title; indicating that it wasn't the standard Mario game. (i.e. Mario RPG, Mario Run,  Mario Paint, Mario Party) 
 
I always felt that the Wii U was too expensive and underpowered.  It was at a disadvantage for third party games.  Plus, no Metroid, No F-zero, no star fox until recently  (and  when it released it was horrible).  It's funny that Ship believes Wombat needs to own a Wii U in order to evaluate it's collection of software when they've been on the Cagcast together and talked about EVERY big Wii U release since its launch. 
 
Shipwreck made arguments based on emotion (his love for all things Mario) and Wombat didn't get mad, didn't accuse him of "pulling stuff out of his ass"  he simply explained his point of view.   When Ship ran out of arguments, he took a deep breath and lets out his Nintendo fanboy cry... "it sold 3.73 million copies."   [Which is third place for the worst selling Mario games since their 1985 console release.  (2.  Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, 1. New Super Luigi U)]     
 
Intro Music -   Just wanted to add that I've always applauded Cheapy for his music selection.  Boots n Pants n Boots n Pants FTW!  
 
Great show!  Thanks again!


 
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In regards to the Nintendo debate:

I am with Wombat on this one. History repeats itself. Like how PS2 beat Xbox due it's enormous library of titles (lauch title included). I felt Shipwreck kept bashing on Wombat for not having a WiiU, while Wombat state several reasons why he felt WiiU did not exceed high sales.  Mario Maker IMO is not a staple Mario game because it does not have a story, it acts more of highscore/ arcade feel to it (much like LittleBigPlanet...look how it did for PS3). Therefore, it did not entice Wombat (and myself) from owning a WiiU.

Splatoon away...Shipwreck!

 
In regards to the Nintendo debate:

I am with Wombat on this one. History repeats itself. Like how PS2 beat Xbox due it's enormous library of titles (lauch title included). I felt Shipwreck kept bashing on Wombat for not having a WiiU, while Wombat state several reasons why he felt WiiU did not exceed high sales. Mario Maker IMO is not a staple Mario game because it does not have a story, it acts more of highscore/ arcade feel to it (much like LittleBigPlanet...look how it did for PS3). Therefore, it did not entice Wombat (and myself) from owning a WiiU.

Splatoon away...Shipwreck!
who plays mario for the story?? It's the game mechanics which Mario Maker has.

 
I'm 100% behind Wombat, he was completely right in regards to everything Wii U

Mario Maker is not a core entry in the Mario series

Not enough games in a reasonable time period

I'm in the market for a Wii U to actually experience some Nintendo stuff I've missed out on for years, haven't experienced Nintendo since DS and then New Leaf

The Wii U is still $300, that's ridiculous! Nintendo is delusional and totally out of touch with their audience

 
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Shipwreck feels totally fine shitting on VR without owning one, yet when Wombat criticizes the WiiU, he doesn't know what he's talking about because "he never bothered to buy one." lol hypocrisy is a beyotch.

 
I had a chance to listen to the episode today. I really enjoyed it. I wanted to weigh in on my experience with the Wii U.

Let me preface this by saying that the NES was my first console, then I had the SNES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii. I even had a virtual boy for a short amount of time as well as a Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Nintendo DS.

Originally when the Wii U came out, as most people were, I wasn't sure if it was a new console or if it was just an add on for the Wii due to the name. Once I realized it was a whole new console I looked at the games they had for it and tested one of them at the store with the launch games and found that it didn't have any games I was interested in yet.

Each year the Wii U has been out I continue to look at the library of games and wonder if it's time to buy one. As this Christmas approached I thought surely they would start to clearance them out, to prepare for the Switch, but still nope, they are holding onto a premium price point for a system that is not premium. You could get an Xbox One S for around $200 this Christmas, but Nintendo still wants more than that for a system with a lot less games.

 
Even though I don't listen to dance music, I've always enjoyed the podcast intros. I think having stuff more like the Mach Rider remix track would appeal to more listeners, but damn, I'm always pumped up during the intro!

 
Yeah I enjoyed Rogue One much more than Force Awakens too because it wasn't a rehash like Force Awakens was.  And because I bought into the plot of this  is how the plans were obtained etc.  It wasn't a classic or anything.  It had cheesy lines/parts, but overall it was good show that kept me interested all the way thru and was a new story!!!!!!!!!

You don't remember the characters names but I think that was the point.  They were the nonames that made victory possible in the original movie.  You do remember the name of the group - Rogue One!

The Forest Whitakker character was a waste as in why pay a well known actor to play that part.  It was a small part and as Ship said, it takes you out of the moment to see a well known actor in a Star Wars movie. 

But he was part of the plot because Forest Whittaker rescued Jen and then Jen was the bait to try to recontact him years later and ultimately it was Whittaker that gave her the message if I remember right.  

Plus  I couldn't help  but think the Whitakker character is half the the plot for the next prequel.  What happens between the time Whittaker rescues Jen and they meet again in Rogue One.  

 
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Shipwreck feels totally fine shitting on VR without owning one, yet when Wombat criticizes the WiiU, he doesn't know what he's talking about because "he never bothered to buy one." lol hypocrisy is a beyotch.
Not even close to the same. Ship rips the chances of VR selling and what he thinks about the state of VR because he's played it many times. He doesn't drill down into specific games that he hasn't played and then offer opinions on what it is or isn't and what that game should have been. PLus VR just came out this year. His experience with it is still fresh.

Wombat makes a completely nonsensical argument regarding Mario Maker not being a "true" SMB game while never having played the game and not having touched a Wii U in 4 years if ever.

It wasn't that Wombat ripped the Wii U either. It was the dumb arguments he was making.

 
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Also the argument that it doesn't have enough games, and that's why you didn't buy it, falls apart coming from someone that bought an X1 in addition to the PS4. (you did right??!?!)
Just to be pedantic, a fan bought him the PS4 so he didn't buy both.

Anyway, I mostly agreed with Wombat in the Wii U discussion. As someone who has had a Wii U since launch, I find myself wishing there were more games. The games just weren't there this generation. Sure, it has a lot to do with the complete lack of meaningful 3rd party support, but if there are Wii U owners with more than 5-6 games..they probably bought some bad games (or are playing remakes).

 
Yeah I enjoyed Rogue One much more than Force Awakens too because it wasn't a rehash like Force Awakens was. And because I bought into the plot of this is how the plans were obtained etc. It wasn't a classic or anything. It had cheesy lines/parts, but overall it was good show that kept me interested all the way thru and was a new story!!!!!!!!!

You don't remember the characters names but I think that was the point. They were the nonames that made victory possible in the original movie. You do remember the name of the group - Rogue One!

The Forest Whitakker character was a waste as in why pay a well known actor to play that part. It was a small part and as Ship said, it takes you out of the moment to see a well known actor in a Star Wars movie.

But he was part of the plot because Forest Whittaker rescued Jen and then Jen was the bait to try to recontact him years later and ultimately it was Whittaker that gave her the message if I remember right.

Plus I couldn't help but think the Whitakker character is half the the plot for the next prequel. What happens between the time Whittaker rescues Jen and they meet again in Rogue One.
You don't even know the main character's name. What a great and memorable movie!

 
i don't comment but wombat was talking out of his ass during the wii u games talk. ship should've put him in his place for making shit up.

stop talking about things you clearly dont know anything about wombat

 
When I go to a retail store and see HALF an aisle or less dedicated to WiiU games, that tells me enough.

The console is 4 years old and its basically less viable than buying an Xbox 360 or PS3 at this point. I havent seen new consoles on sale in 2 months when I shop either....Nintendo doesnt care.

 
Just to be pedantic, a fan bought him the PS4 so he didn't buy both.


Anyway, I mostly agreed with Wombat in the Wii U discussion. As someone who has had a Wii U since launch, I find myself wishing there were more games. The games just weren't there this generation. Sure, it has a lot to do with the complete lack of meaningful 3rd party support, but if there are Wii U owners with more than 5-6 games..they probably bought some bad games (or are playing remakes).
It is a 1st party machine. Always was going to be. It is absurd to say only 5-6 good games. What happened to being pedantic???
 
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Besides price and marketing,  the other problem with the Wii U was that Nintendo was already selling an off-tv device aka the 3ds. And it was a better off-tv device than the Gamepad. You could take it anywhere. Plus it had an entirely different library of games. Yet the 3ds didn't cost much more than the $100 or so that the Gamepad seemed to add to the Wii U's retail price.

That's redundant or cannibilization or a conflict or.....      By making the 2 platforms so similar you make customers choose one or the other.   It's a  tough sell to ask the Nintendo handheld customer to pay $350  so they can get a touchscreen and off-tv play.  They already have that.   That couldn't have helped sales.  Lots of the 1st party games are similar too.

No the Wii U's big feature was too close to what the 3ds was, for too close to what a 3ds costs yet without the added library or go anywhere ability.

I mean what if Nintendo makes a Wii U as a standard game machine (no Gamepad) and packs with it with a 3ds and sells it for $350.   That would be much more attractive.  You'd have a whole 'nother set of games to choose from.   You'd be able to play the 3ds games anywhere and many of them are similar enough to the Wii U versions.  And it's not like I'm pulling that pricepoint from my arse and it's a pipe dream.  A 360 (with a hard drive no less)  was selling for under $200 when the Wii U came out.  The 3ds was $170.     A $350 price for both would be very doable.  Plus you'd have to think that some of the touchscreen games  could have been moved to the 3ds and something like Mario Maker could have let the player create levels on  the 3ds to be played on the Wii U.   YOu'd have a similar enough yet much more attractive system whose benefits would outweigh the relatively few minor trade-offs.  

IT's almost like the Wii U was the Force Awakens of consoles (without the sales)   in that Nintendo  just wanted to rehash on the console side what they already did on the handheld side in order to prepare the consumer for the Switch 4 years later.   

 
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I know you guys have talked about it a little on a recent show, but WTF is the point of buying a game a launch near the end of the year.  I mean with the amount of sales that happened at Best Buy, Amazon and the PlayStation/Xbox stores, it defeats the point of buying when it comes out...Is the whole reason to boost sales at the end of the year? Clear out stock?  With as filled as Quarter 4 is, how can the industry keep making AAA games that go on sale 4 weeks after launch for almost half off....

Thoughts?

 
I like all three hosts, and I'm usually ok with Wombat ranting, but it felt like he was fighting for the sake of fighting and wouldn't back down to admit he was wrong.  Super awkward.  WiiU has more 'traditional' mario games than any other Nintendo platform I can think of.  3D mario games and 2D mario games both count (Mario 64 came out in the 90's!)  GameCube had Sunshine, N64 had Mario64, Wii had two galaxy games and new super mario bros.  WiiU has two new super mario bros, mario 3d world and mario maker!  It's ok to be wrong and admit you're wrong sometimes.

Thanks as always to all three of you for doing a great show, and Cheapy has to play Dead Rising 4 for that Saint's Row-ish gameplay.

 
This whole about the Wii U got me to thinking.  I dug through some boxes and found my Wii U plugged it in and found out Gamestop will give me $150 cash for the thing.  So I am going to trade it and all the games I have.

 
Not even close to the same. Ship rips the chances of VR selling and what he thinks about the state of VR because he's played it many times. He doesn't drill down into specific games that he hasn't played and then offer opinions on what it is or isn't and what that game should have been. PLus VR just came out this year. His experience with it is still fresh.

Wombat makes a completely nonsensical argument regarding Mario Maker not being a "true" SMB game while never having played the game and not having touched a Wii U in 4 years if ever.

It wasn't that Wombat ripped the Wii U either. It was the dumb arguments he was making.
Wrong. You are totally allowed to comment on a system even if you haven't personally purchased it. Wombat was literally reading the list of major releases. You don't have to own the system to criticize the lineup. That's my point. If Shipwreck can comment on a system without owning one, so can Wombat. The only dumb argument here was Ship saying that Wombat never bothered to purchase one.

 
Wrong. You are totally allowed to comment on a system even if you haven't personally purchased it. Wombat was literally reading the list of major releases. You don't have to own the system to criticize the lineup. That's my point. If Shipwreck can comment on a system without owning one, so can Wombat. The only dumb argument here was Ship saying that Wombat never bothered to purchase one.
Not even close to the same. Ship rips the chances of VR selling and what he thinks about the state of VR because he's played it many times. He doesn't drill down into specific games that he hasn't played and then offer opinions on what it is or isn't and what that game should have been. PLus VR just came out this year. His experience with it is still fresh.

Wombat makes a completely nonsensical argument regarding Mario Maker not being a "true" SMB game while never having played the game and not having touched a Wii U in 4 years if ever.

It wasn't that Wombat ripped the Wii U either. It was the dumb arguments he was making.

 
Anyone who comments on a product must actually own that product. Lol, stick with argument it'll get you far. 

 
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