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#6871 Ex~   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   725 Posts   Joined 12.3 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:54 PM

Bottom line for me is fun.

 

The F2P mechanics of smartphone games are just not fun. They are full of grinding, noticeably manipulative of habit-forming tendencies, and overall just unpleasant. Many of the mechanics are specifically about making the game such a grind to unlock something that the player will pay to AVOID playing the game: no one is going to pay specifically to avoid playing a game they enjoy, so such a feature could not exist unless the game is actually being made unpleasant to play. 



#6872 awp   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9876 Posts   Joined 16.5 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:56 PM

they *personally* don't care about the content so it's not a big deal and people who think it is are wrong.

This is the problem. You and others here are pigeonholing people that like certain games like Battlefront 2 as in one camp or another. I know I’ve never said anyone who hates the PTW aspects of the game are “wrong”. I agree with them but I still find enjoyment of the game. So that makes me “wrong” in your eyes and others here.

I pay for what I see as the return of enjoyment on a game. If I don’t think it’s worth it, I don’t buy it. I don’t play many F2P games because I hate hitting paywalls or timers or whatever other mechanism there is. I’m not hitting a paywall in BF2. I’m just having fun. And I’m certainly not defending EA.

If I’m a hypocrite for liking a game even if I don’t like certain aspects of it, so be it. Just don’t say I’m wrong when I’m not saying you or anyone else is wrong.

Bottom line for me is fun.


This.

#6873 Thebacklash   Now Drinking: Minor Case Rye Whiskey - Sherry Cask Finished CAGiversary!   3120 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

Thebacklash

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:10 PM

The way I see micro transactions and such..

 

If I buy the game itself, i'm not approving of the ptw or loot box crap.

If I BUY loot boxes.... i'm supporting that crap.

If I can't PLAY a game without buying loot boxes.. I wont play that game.

 

If you want to spend the money on loot boxes, go for it.

If you don't want to spend money on loot boxes, don't.

As long as the game is playable without requiring them being purchased.. It doesn't bother me that much.

 

 

Loot boxes, and PTW items are two different things though.. A blatant PTW item that *can't* be acquired in game without real currency being spent... now thats BS.

Loot boxes IMO are just paid shortcuts.



#6874 Ex~   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   725 Posts   Joined 12.3 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:18 PM

I don't think it's particularly meaningful to insist that "everything is subjective". Yes, individuals will have different experiences, but everyone already understands that. What comes out of that is aggregate responses, which are perfectly objective facts. 

 

The original state of Battlefront 2 was, objectively speaking, a complete travesty, to the point where Disney called EA to chew them out for a clusterfuck so bad they were literally threatening the worth of the Star Wars franchise. There is no subjective reality in which you could possibly defend the initial state of Battlefront 2, even if you personally enjoyed the game. Launch Battlefront 2 was, objectively speaking, one of the most disastrous release products in videogaming history. 

For an extremely large segment of people--including most people who never played Battlefront 2 in its pre-outrage state and are now enjoying the post-outrage Battlefront 2 and wondering what the fuss is about--the state Battlefront 2 was released in was absolutely NOT fun for them, because of how intrusive the non-fun F2P mechanics were.



#6875 awp   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9876 Posts   Joined 16.5 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:30 PM

^^ well, I’m still unsure of even that. I played the game when it was EA Access with micro transactions and all. I didn’t like the system but I still enjoyed the game. Can’t just make a blanket statement that the game was “absolutely NOT fun”. I’m not saying it wasn’t bad with the F2P mechanics but it was still fun.

Again, my measure is if I get as much fun out as money I’m putting in, then I’m fine. I absolutely will not spend a dime on micro transactions to support that crap so that’s always a factor.

I’m not sure whether I would have bought BF2 if they hadn’t changed it. I may have just waited for the whole game to be part of EA Access.

That said, as I mentioned, I was not going to buy NFS Payback because it’s micro transactions amounted to a paywall when it first came out. You simply could not progress enough without extreme grinding or buying with real money. They changed it and the game is better for it.

Maybe I see all this from a different perspective too because I played both of these games as part of EA Access so I was able to make an informed decision before I put out cash.

Anyway, I hate F2P mechanics and won’t spend a dime on them so if they ever impede my enjoyment then I simply won’t buy the game. In these two cases they did not impede MY enjoyment (after the changes, especially with NFS). That’s not to say others would feel the same way and they wouldn’t be wrong if they felt that way.

#6876 defpally   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2087 Posts   Joined 10.4 Years Ago  

defpally

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:23 PM

The way I see micro transactions and such..

 

If I buy the game itself, i'm not approving of the ptw or loot box crap.

If I BUY loot boxes.... i'm supporting that crap.

If I can't PLAY a game without buying loot boxes.. I wont play that game.

 

If you want to spend the money on loot boxes, go for it.

If you don't want to spend money on loot boxes, don't.

As long as the game is playable without requiring them being purchased.. It doesn't bother me that much.

 

 

Loot boxes, and PTW items are two different things though.. A blatant PTW item that *can't* be acquired in game without real currency being spent... now thats BS.

Loot boxes IMO are just paid shortcuts.

Yeah, the way I see it is that if you buy the game and then do NOT spend money on loot boxes, you are actually sending a message to the publisher that you do not want them.  Because they definitely track that.  I'm fairly certain the Battlefront fiasco was a result of them realizing how many people forego microtransactions and they wanted to give them more teeth (instead of getting the hint) - and likely ruined the whole game for all the publishers with it.  You know they are all thinking real hard about how far to go with them now they have seen there is a hard line that is not to be crossed.  Battlefront 2 was a definite AAA top seller before all of this happened, and EA/DICE spiked the game hardcore.

 

You take a Star Wars game coming out a few weeks before a new mainline Star Wars movie that people actually seem to like and it looks really good, and turn it into an unmitigated disaster and PR nightmare for the company.  And Disney actually strong arms them to undo it, which is wild given all the shit they do let licensees slap "Star Wars" on these days.



#6877 runthejewels  

runthejewels

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:24 PM

Yeah, I'm talking about more retail games where content is locked behind loot boxes, cosmetics and others. A retail game shouldn't have a f2p structure, whether the content is cosmetic or not. Cosmetics are a big deal in some games, such as ones that have regular events with cosmetics as the focus. But yeah, as I said, instead of paying $5 or whatever to get the exact piece of content you want you get to pay $5 for five chances at the content you want. Just a scummy practice that people will give a free pass to because they like the game or they *personally* don't care about the content so it's not a big deal and people who think it is are wrong.


If you think cosmetic items are important to gameplay, then yes, you are wrong.

#6878 runthejewels  

runthejewels

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:26 PM

I don't think it's particularly meaningful to insist that "everything is subjective". Yes, individuals will have different experiences, but everyone already understands that. What comes out of that is aggregate responses, which are perfectly objective facts.

The original state of Battlefront 2 was, objectively speaking, a complete travesty, to the point where Disney called EA to chew them out for a clusterfuck so bad they were literally threatening the worth of the Star Wars franchise. There is no subjective reality in which you could possibly defend the initial state of Battlefront 2, even if you personally enjoyed the game. Launch Battlefront 2 was, objectively speaking, one of the most disastrous release products in videogaming history.

For an extremely large segment of people--including most people who never played Battlefront 2 in its pre-outrage state and are now enjoying the post-outrage Battlefront 2 and wondering what the fuss is about--the state Battlefront 2 was released in was absolutely NOT fun for them, because of how intrusive the non-fun F2P mechanics were.


I’m not sure you know what objective means.

#6879 CrepeNuts  

CrepeNuts

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:00 AM

If you think cosmetic items are important to gameplay, then yes, you are wrong.

https://youtu.be/Ce5CDrq4dGg

#6880 Thebacklash   Now Drinking: Minor Case Rye Whiskey - Sherry Cask Finished CAGiversary!   3120 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

Thebacklash

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:24 AM

 

that whole video "I WANT TO LOOK COOL, I WANT TO STAND OUT!" 

or in other words, you just inadvertently defended runthejewels comment.

 

Cosmetics dont CHANGE the gameplay. Running around with a tux on vs running around with a fruit stripe mish mash of colors on your gear... does nothing for the actual gameplay. Sure you look like shit.. but you didn't spend $$.

He attacks Destiny 2 for the shaders, which I think was a dumb move... but playing Destiny 2, you get Shaders free also.. no need to purchase them, unless you want some super rare "cool" color. which again, does not effect the actual game... just YOUR mind. (or others how they view you, in that case F em)



#6881 TheKbob   Rock On, Duder CAGiversary!   1312 Posts   Joined 11.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

Cosmetics are part of the game for some of us.  I spend hours in character creators, tons of times dyeing crap in D3, and will choose fashionable armor over the best stats in RPGs. 

You might disagree with it, but the video part of "Video Games" is half the battle.  Aesthetics sell titles and the attachment to characters is totally what Blizzard is selling with something like Overwatch.  That's why it's got such a diverse cast and fosters the meta threads of "head canon" in the community and going so far as making skins based upon it.  The inverse is true in that they've received several backlashes against perceived slights against characters, their lore, or personal/cultural identities with some skins.

The skin lootboxes in Blizzard are also totally the same crap that keeps people in casinos; the free food, free booze, extra services, etc. that keep player engagement up.  Along with the actual in game mechanics and the possibility of them effecting matchmaking thanks to Acti-Blizz's patents this year, it adds up to a layer of scum that cannot be glossed over with "it's just cosmetics, it doesn't matter" with the implied "to me" at the end.

If it didn't matter, then it wouldn't be a $1.4B+ franchise in a little over one year.



#6882 midloo   User No. 2 CAGiversary!   2163 Posts   Joined 10.8 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:50 AM

I like loot box systems.  I think they're fun when done well.  I also wouldn't ever spend actual money on them. 



#6883 CrepeNuts  

CrepeNuts

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:50 AM

that whole video "I WANT TO LOOK COOL, I WANT TO STAND OUT!" 

or in other words, you just inadvertently defended runthejewels comment.

 

Cosmetics dont CHANGE the gameplay. Running around with a tux on vs running around with a fruit stripe mish mash of colors on your gear... does nothing for the actual gameplay. Sure you look like shit.. but you didn't spend $$.

He attacks Destiny 2 for the shaders, which I think was a dumb move... but playing Destiny 2, you get Shaders free also.. no need to purchase them, unless you want some super rare "cool" color. which again, does not effect the actual game... just YOUR mind. (or others how they view you, in that case F em)

I don't think you actually watched the video.



#6884 Thebacklash   Now Drinking: Minor Case Rye Whiskey - Sherry Cask Finished CAGiversary!   3120 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

Thebacklash

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:53 AM

I don't think you actually watched the video.

 

6:00 nope, didnt watch it.



#6885 Thebacklash   Now Drinking: Minor Case Rye Whiskey - Sherry Cask Finished CAGiversary!   3120 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

Thebacklash

Posted 29 December 2017 - 01:07 AM

Cosmetics are part of the game for some of us.  I spend hours in character creators, tons of times dyeing crap in D3, and will choose fashionable armor over the best stats in RPGs. 

 

Do you not see you are actually proving the point of those you argue against?...

 

 

Anyway, spend your money... IDC. 

I won't. I stand by my previous post, i'll buy a game if it interests me, will not pay for loot boxes. If the game that interests me has loot boxes.. as long as it doesn't effect GAMEPLAY i don't care.

 

Cosmetics don't make the game. 



#6886 MrRidickulous   Deal skeptic! CAGiversary!   2024 Posts   Joined 6.0 Years Ago  

MrRidickulous

Posted 29 December 2017 - 01:27 AM

You guys enjoying Battlefront 2 need to also remember that grinding and loot boxes were toned down massively because of the outcry. All the initial fuel for it was not what you're playing. I would even go as far to say that you're able to enjoy it now BECAUSE of the outcry.


I know exactly what the “outcry” was and what the game was. What I’m bringing forward is the idea of this being a slippery slope that began years ago with the things I mentioned like charging for 8kb dlc unlocked on disc and other pay to improve mechanics. So with this game they took the next step and everyone who just realized what was at the end of their nose started crying while old school gamers like myself kind of saw it coming. You paid and you paid for online passes, digital costumes, locked disc dlc and nba shit and now you’re shocked that someone went further. Pretty damn funny to me and hypocritical to not cry foul back when EA charged to play a game online, and so on to the level that all that shit stopped back then. Hell this gen of gamers expects their consoles and games to not work for hours when buying them because of fat updates and lost storage. Whole lot of outrageous things going on that continue to get worse (Xbox one x updates and storage issues) that with next gen will just cause a big uproar when it goes farther. Just watch.

It’s a fun game. As I’ve said before, more Star Wars fun and an enjoyable experience. Plus online games aplenty to jump into. Highly recommend it.

#6887 affa   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   4710 Posts   Joined 11.1 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 01:50 AM

Am I the only person who actually is quite happy BF2 released like it did?   We're not going to see triple A games try that shit again anytime soon.  

 

Lootboxes are a terrible mechanic, even for cosmetics - remove the gambling, just let me [not] buy each item.

 

Mobile has brought us a wealth of terrible mechanics [timers, premium currencies, loot boxes, grind gates, etc] that hopefully remain in the freemium world.  

 

I don't totally agree with the concept of 'if you don't like them, just don't buy them' because it skips over the issue that these mechanics inherently lead to bad game design - that is, in order to encourage people to buy lootboxes/premium currency/etc, you need to create grind gates where you intentionally frustrate players into buying a way to powerup.  If you design a game well, and carefully balance everything for a natural feeling progression, nobody would ever buy these powerups.

 

Timers, personally, are my least favorite mechanic.   They totally feed into addiction based behavior, where you ignore everything else to make sure you start that next timer as soon as the last one finishes, etc.  I now delete any games with them on sight.



#6888 Deader2818   Flipadelphia! CAGiversary!   11239 Posts   Joined 8.4 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 02:03 AM

I 100% have no issue with how Overwatch is handled. Id rather have the option to buy loot boxes and get free content than have no option to buy loot boxes and have to pay for a season pass.



#6889 whoknows   Time and Eternity for all of time and eternity CAGiversary!   40119 Posts   Joined 16.0 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 02:12 AM

If you think cosmetic items are important to gameplay, then yes, you are wrong.

If you think that's what I wrote you need to work on your reading comprehension.

If you think that cosmetics aren't important to some people, cosmetics don't/can't affect a person's enjoyment of a game, and aren't an important part of the game to some, then yes, you are wrong.

#6890 Killbomb   The Misanthrope CAGiversary!   3685 Posts   Joined 11.6 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 02:32 AM

Battlefront 2 is lots of fun. I recommend it. Allowing the internet at large to dictate your opinion is sad. Plus the whole deal is beyond hypocritical. As they froze money purchases, you can still buy nba2k points, halo req packs, etc. But who ever said Star Wars fanboys weren’t whiny and are rational.

One match is all it takes to start an inferno....lol. Anyway, I agree that BF2 is an enjoyable game. I wouldn't have bought it if the loot box system would have stayed P2W but I grabbed it when Best Buy had it for $32 recently and I've had some fun with it.



#6891 Thebacklash   Now Drinking: Minor Case Rye Whiskey - Sherry Cask Finished CAGiversary!   3120 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

Thebacklash

Posted 29 December 2017 - 02:41 AM

If you think that's what I wrote you need to work on your reading comprehension.

If you think that cosmetics aren't important to some people, cosmetics don't/can't affect a person's enjoyment of a game, and aren't an important part of the game to some, then yes, you are wrong.

 

gamePLAY is different than HOW a gamer plays.

 

$1 to be able to get past an obstacle (game mechanic or higher damage weapon/whatever) Either pay, or you can't progress. Not a choice. 

$1 to LOOK different. Doesn't actually effect gameplay. Choice.

 

completely different. 

If how you LOOK is important to you, fine. But don't complain to everyone that YOU had to spend money to look different. Complain about having to buy an item to actually progress in a game.



#6892 SpraykwoN   the Chef CAGiversary!   3592 Posts   Joined 6.6 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 02:55 AM

Absolute drift worth full price ($11.99) or should I wait for a sale? Lol



#6893 Indiansfan008   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   386 Posts   Joined 12.0 Years Ago  

Indiansfan008

Posted 29 December 2017 - 03:11 AM

that moment when you bought more games than you finished this year and forgot you even bought some of them... Actually happened to me the other day when I saw yakuza 5 in my download list and I don't remember ever buying it.

I finished 13 games this year though at least so in about 8-10 years I should be able to clean up my backlog.


I've done this many times! I finished 54 games this year and bought more than that. Play what's fun. You'll never be able to play everything.

#6894 runthejewels  

runthejewels

Posted 29 December 2017 - 03:57 AM

https://youtu.be/Ce5CDrq4dGg


This is exactly who I picture when I see people whining about shit like this.

#6895 runthejewels  

runthejewels

Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:01 AM

If you think that's what I wrote you need to work on your reading comprehension.

If you think that cosmetics aren't important to some people, cosmetics don't/can't affect a person's enjoyment of a game, and aren't an important part of the game to some, then yes, you are wrong.


Literally exactly what you wrote. And I don’t care if cosmetics are important to some people. I fully support video game companies bilking millions from idiots who need to look different.

#6896 Z-Saber   moon2S CAGiversary!   6727 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:40 AM

Lotsa blog posts 'round these parts...

#6897 The Dead Texan   Rest in Peace, Big Rizzle CAGiversary!   3870 Posts   Joined 11.6 Years Ago  

The Dead Texan

Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:49 AM

EA really has shooters around here? I don't recognize this world anymore. 



#6898 whoknows   Time and Eternity for all of time and eternity CAGiversary!   40119 Posts   Joined 16.0 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:54 AM

Literally exactly what you wrote. And I don’t care if cosmetics are important to some people. I fully support video game companies bilking millions from idiots who need to look different.

As I said, you need to work on your reading comprehension. 



#6899 whoknows   Time and Eternity for all of time and eternity CAGiversary!   40119 Posts   Joined 16.0 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:03 AM

gamePLAY is different than HOW a gamer plays.

 

$1 to be able to get past an obstacle (game mechanic or higher damage weapon/whatever) Either pay, or you can't progress. Not a choice. 

$1 to LOOK different. Doesn't actually effect gameplay. Choice.

 

completely different. 

If how you LOOK is important to you, fine. But don't complain to everyone that YOU had to spend money to look different. Complain about having to buy an item to actually progress in a game.

Don't complain that content that some players want is locked behind luck? It's amazing how you completely miss the point. Weapons or cosmetics, both are content in a game that players care about. The practice of locking any content behind luck is a scummy business practice, at best. 

 

You know why Activision won't sell those skins in Overwatch outside of loot boxes? Because Activision knows people care about them. The cosmetic factor is a huge appeal in a game like Overwatch. That's why there's regularly events in the game where cosmetics are the focus and the whole reason the events exist. Instead of letting people just buy the skins they want for a few dollars, they'll lock them behind luck and get the consumer to spend many times what they would have if they could just buy exactly what they want separately and possibly still not give the player what they want. It's preying on the customer and incredibly anti-consumer. 

 

It's effectively horse armor taken to the extreme. Remember when people threw a fit over that? Now instead of buying the horse armor you're buying the chance at horse armor and people are like "yeah, that's fine".

 

And don't give me it's needed so they can continue to provide "free" content. That's a bs excuse in a $60 game that was incredibly barebones at release and should have had said content to begin with. 



#6900 runthejewels  

runthejewels

Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:11 AM

Just a scummy practice that people will give a free pass to because they like the game or they *personally* don't care about the content so it's not a big deal and people who think it is are wrong.


If you think cosmetic items are important to gameplay, then yes, you are wrong.


Please explain to me where my reading comprehension has faltered.







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