CAGcast #511: We Don’t Really Wear Pants

CheapyD

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The gang talks Gamescom, The Defenders, SNES Classic Pre-orders, Xbox One X, and so much more!

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro - Yellow Claw & Flux Pavilion - Catch Me (feat. Naaz)
Outro - Pants, We don't need pants
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I apologize if this is lengthy, but I was surprised by the level of dismissal of the One X from Shipwreck (and general agreement from Wombat). I agree that Microsoft needs to do a better job of marketing this console in the long run, but I believe their initial production of Scorpio Editions will sell out, with good reason.

First, to clarify, only the Scorpio Edition is available for preorder at this time, and the entire initial allotment of Xbox One X's are Scorpio Editions (this was clarified by Xbox-employee accounts on twitter). As of the time of this post, Best Buy, Amazon, the Microsoft Store, and Walmart have all sold out of their preorders. It is still available from Gamestop and Target.

For those without a 4k TV, the value proposition of an Xbox One X is far less attractive relative to a mid-high tier gaming PC. There is, of course, some percentage of consumers that are not interested in using a PC to game in their living rooms / home theaters but may still be interested in higher performance / framerates / resolution in games. You've all seemed to acknowledge this, but haven't acknowledged why someone WOULD want to buy an X if they do have a 4k (+HDR) TV.

For those with a 4k TV (this is more people than you might expect. With Amazon's $400 4K TVs and TCL's $600 HDR capable TVs being recently launched, it is hard to justify buying a non 4K/HDR TV in the $400-800 50-60" TV market), the X seems like a pretty good value. I say this for several reasons:

1) UHD Bluray drive.

While it isn't the best UHD drive out there, it does the job and allows for UHD Bluray playback. Standalone UHD Bluray drives still run around $100-200 (or more) for basic models. Shipwreck should understand this, given that he is now buying UHD Blurays but without a means to play them back. When he inevitably upgrades to a 4k display, he'll want a way to play his premium media. Yes, the Xbox One S does have a UHD Bluray player, so this is a debatable point for those that already own an S.

2) HDR gaming.

Many PC games still do not have HDR support, whereas their console counterparts do. Two notable examples come to mind: Forza Horizon 3 & The Witness, but there are many other examples. While parity may one day exist between PC/Consoles, it does not currently, and there are only a handful of PC monitors that support HDR. Again, this feature (HDR) does exist on the S, but not with native 4k support.

3) *Stable* 4K (or even 1080p) gaming.

Yes it is possible with a PC, but in my experience it is hard to pinpoint the best settings for a given game to achieve a stable 60 (or even 30) FPS, even with a higher end GPU. An upgrade to a GTX 1080 (considered to be a relatively 4k capable graphics card) is at least a $500 purchase, and that won't even guarantee stable performance if CPU or RAM are bottlenecks.

Having games optimized for 4k, whether through checkerboarding or native 1:1 4k, running at a stable 30 or 60 fps is an attractive proposition. Furthermore, 1080p gaming on current-gen consoles has been disappointing to say the least. This console generation was incredibly marginal performance-wise. With game devs trying to push better visuals and losing stable framerate in the process, the original XBO and PS4 were disappointing. While only 100+ games will be initially be optimized for 4k gameplay (or supersampled 1080p) on the X, every game will will run better, allowing for a more consistent experience, with less framerate drops. Games with dynamic resolution will run at higher resolutions more consistently (think PS4 Pro's boost mode). The PS4 pro has closed this performance gap for the Sony ecosystem and the X stands to do so for the MSFT ecosystem.

 
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As someone that does not own any consoles at the moment.  I am a PC player.  If I did want to get a console, I would have no problem getting the Xbox one X.   So for it to be dismissed so easily as that there is no market for it does not seem right.   

 
As someone that does not own any consoles at the moment. I am a PC player. If I did want to get a console, I would have no problem getting the Xbox one X. So for it to be dismissed so easily as that there is no market for it does not seem right.
So... what you're saying is... you're not buying one.
 
Games of high impact and universal praise in my mind:

-Half-Life 2
This was where Steam started in my opinion.

-World of Warcraft (at launch)
I was in high school when this came out and every gamer I knew was playing it for at least that first year.

-Bioshock
You discussed this one.

-Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2
This and the first one is what made Call of Duty great.

-Skyrim
Even none gamer types I knew got into this one. People still play it today.

-GTAV

-Overwatch
Universal praise among most ppl I know. It's a perfect combo of DotA and CoD.

-Zelda BOTW

-Halo
The real champion of console competitive shooters. So many nights in high school spent with multiple xbox linked playing this.

-Zelda Ocarina of Time
Everyone at school talked about this while we were all playing through it.

-Rocket League
Even more casual gamers I know love this one. I think it mostly has praise and is having a big impact.

-Player Unknowns Battlegrounds is becoming one of these. Once it comes to Xbox I think it's gonna blow up more than it has.

Those are what comes to mind, of course it all depends on your circle of friends and preferences. I haven't played some of those but I just remember them having a big impact and lots of praise.
 
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When I think of Battlegrounds, I do not think of 4K and HDR. It isn't a visually stunning game to begin with, but it doesn't need to be that kind of game.

And speaking of HDR.. is it really the bread and butter of 4K? I have a 4K HDR set, and I really do not see anything earth-shattering like going from 480 to 1080. When I think of HDR, I think of that MMX technology add-on to Intel chips back in the late 90s/early 00s. Yeah, it may run a little faster but it is honesty that much better?

 
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Having games optimized for 4k, whether through checkerboarding or native 1:1 4k, running at a stable 30 or 60 fps is an attractive proposition. Furthermore, 1080p gaming on current-gen consoles has been disappointing to say the least. This console generation was incredibly marginal performance-wise. With game devs trying to push better visuals and losing stable framerate in the process, the original XBO and PS4 were disappointing. While only 100+ games will be initially be optimized for 4k gameplay (or supersampled 1080p) on the X, every game will will run better, allowing for a more consistent experience, with less framerate drops. Games with dynamic resolution will run at higher resolutions more consistently (think PS4 Pro's boost mode). The PS4 pro has closed this performance gap for the Sony ecosystem and the X stands to do so for the MSFT ecosystem.
Gotta be honest, I have never noticed any framerate issues with games on my OG Xbox One. While I know the Xbox One X will be a beefier system, will it be a noticeable difference besides shorter loading times? This also reminds me of Boost Mode with the PS4 Pro. I really can't tell much of a difference. I know there are videos online showing proof of the difference Boost Mode can make, but when you are actually playing, would you be able to tell?

But then, playing Call of Duty on the PS4 Pro at 60 FPS and then playing on PC at 91 FPS is a huge difference for me. I can feel that difference.

I just feel like these "Boost Mode" is just smoke and mirrors sometimes because developers still have to make these games compatible with PS4/PS4 Pro and Xbox One/Xbox One X so are they really going to invest crucial development time into a console that would have a smaller userbase?

 
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Gotta be honest, I have never noticed any framerate issues with games on my OG Xbox One. While I know the Xbox One X will be a beefier system, will it be a noticeable difference besides shorter loading times? This also reminds me of Boost Mode with the PS4 Pro. I really can't tell much of a difference. I know there are videos online showing proof of the difference Boost Mode can make, but when you are actually playing, would you be able to tell?

But then, playing Call of Duty on the PS4 Pro at 60 FPS and then playing on PC at 91 FPS is a huge difference for me. I can feel that difference.

I just feel like these "Boost Mode" is just smoke and mirrors sometimes because developers still have to make these games compatible with PS4/PS4 Pro and Xbox One/Xbox One X so are they really going to invest crucial development time into a console that would have a smaller userbase?
It's a matter of perspective and experience. I have played many games on both the X1 and PS4 that barely hit 30 fps with drops/stutters to 20 fps or lower, which hampers my console enjoyment relative to a low input-lag 144hz G-Sync PC monitor. Stable 30 fps is one thing, but 30 fps with drops below 20 fps is another. Boost mode non-specifically improves performance in all games, regardless of whether a dev officially patches the game.

Everybody's Gone to the Rapture for PS4 is an example of a game that I found barely playable d/t being an already slow game + having poor frame rate on the original PS4.

Digital Foundry testing on the game with original PS4 hardware showed:

- Highest frame rate = 38 fps - Average with no orbs or @ distance = 34 fps - Average with orbs @ close distance = 29 fps - Lowest hiccup = 17 fps (source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoeKg9vwxww)

The PS4 Pro boost mode does improve the frame rate noticeably (but still with drops). With an official patch, I'm sure the game could achieve an even-higher stable frame rate.

I have higher hopes for the XBX's out-of-the-box 'boost mode' due to delivering even more raw power than the PS4 Pro, but only time will tell in that regard.

 
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Kind of funny to hear Shipwreck giving Sony credit for 3rd party devs who make beautiful games but only publish them on the PS4.  Horizon's great looking world is not thanks to Sony...  Uncharted is a great looking game but he still had a hard time pulling any other examples.  So many people pile on Microsoft for not having amazing first party games but then applaud Sony for titles that just happen to be exclusives to their platform.  Both consoles are capable of great looking games.  It's kind of funny to hear some unconscious bias surfacing due to the primary platform some people choose to engage with (I'm sure no one on the cast has a financial/other incentive to choose one over the other).

 
Kind of funny to hear Shipwreck giving Sony credit for 3rd party devs who make beautiful games but only publish them on the PS4. Horizon's great looking world is not thanks to Sony... Uncharted is a great looking game but he still had a hard time pulling any other examples. So many people pile on Microsoft for not having amazing first party games but then applaud Sony for titles that just happen to be exclusives to their platform. Both consoles are capable of great looking games. It's kind of funny to hear some unconscious bias surfacing due to the primary platform some people choose to engage with (I'm sure no one on the cast has a financial/other incentive to choose one over the other).
Guerrilla is a studio owned by Sony so I'm confused at how Horizon just happens to be on PS4. They consistently put out great looking games.

As far as me showing bias, I actually game more on Xbox One, but I call things how I see them and the graphic quality on Sony's first party games is better than Microsoft's right now.
 
Re: Wombat's call for "epic gaming moment" my vote is Resident Evil 4. It soared on the GameCube, was reborn on the PS2 and then met it's best iteration on the Wii. Loved by critics and gamers alike, meme-worthy phrases and fantastic action/value!

 
I just logged in for the first time in 5 years to leave a comment for Wombat so he won't be sad--because he's hilarious. By the way, I don't wear pants either.  :bouncy:

 
Microsoft really needed a big game like Horizon Zero Dawn to showcase the power of the One X.  Fable 4 could of been it if they don't close Lionhead and waste so much time on that Free to play Fable game.  I have a 4K HDR TV and the PS4 Pro already but I see no need to get the One X. There just isn't enough new games that will benefit from it, I have no interest in the improvements to old games I've already played or BC games.

 
After having beat Uncharted: the Lost Legacy this weekend, I can honestly say this is my second favorite Uncharted game (behind Uncharted 2). Loved the interaction between Chloe and Nadine, beautiful environments (as always), loved the Indian-culture based storyline (never really seen that in a game before in such detail), not as long as Uncharted 4 (beat it at around 7 hrs and that was with me running around trying to find collectibles), a lot of weapons/ammo so you can constantly run and gun while switching weapons and the last section of the game left me satisfied (think of the Uncharted 2 train section + the jeep chase section of Uncharted 4). 
 
As for the open world aspect, there is a big part of the game that is "open world". It's exactly like the African jeep section in Uncharted 4, except that it's an even bigger area. There are certain areas you have to go to continue the story but there are also optional mini-puzzles around the map that if you decided to do them all
add up to something that helps you if you're after the collectibles.


A really great game for $40 + there's always the multiplayer afterwards and there are unlocks you get after you beat the game to change up the game (unlimited ammo, character skins, gameplay/audio filters, etc...)

 
To answer Wombat's question, The Last of Us had a similar impact on the industry as Bioshock.

I'm interested in an XOX since I don't have or want a modern gaming PC, but I do own a Sony X900E TV with an unused 4K HDMI port. I smartly skipped the overpriced and underpowered Xbox One, so there's a lot of games I haven't had the chance to play that could I pick up at cheap prices.
 
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Wombat, you were alive during the craze DOOM created. It was one of the few I was a part of. They're still doing crazy stuff, like installing Doom in ATM machines lol. Also, Pac-man was a pretty big deal, as was Tetris. 

 
Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, and Perfect Dark were dorm room phenoms in the late 90's.   I feel like the more modern examples would be the first Batman Arkham game, Minecraft, and the NBA2K series.

 
I'd have to go with Grand Theft Auto III being a revolutionary game and one that had universal praise. It was so radically different and well-received at the time it was published. It stirred up both controversy and acclaim. The Metacritic score is 97/100 for the PS2 variant. Vice City and San Andreas expanded on the universe and had a more polished product, but without GTA III, they wouldn't exist.

For sports games, NBA 2K11 was "that" game of the last generation. It featured Michael Jordan and managed to dismantle EA's NBA series for three years, though to be fair, EA was also responsible for that with the NBA Elite 11 fiasco. Even the perennial Madden game couldn't look that polished and realistic.

As for the Xbox One X, I pre-ordered one when they became available. The Forza series is what pushed me over the edge. I've already got a Samsung KS8000 series UHD TV and I have a growing collection of 4k UHD Blu-rays. I'm planning on moving my current Xbox One S to a different room in my house, with the Xbox One X being in the living room with the 4k TV. The PS4 Pro was never on my radar, mainly because of a lack of the 4k UHD optical drive (which still confuses me, as Sony was the main proprietor behind the original Blu-ray push).

I have reason to trust Microsoft this time, in regards to the 4k updates and upgrades. They've shown that they're willing to listen to the consumers and try to make things right (see getting rid of the Kinect, getting rid of always-online, Games with Gold, etc). Microsoft is trying to play catch-up, so I believe they'll do what they can to claw their way back to the top. Microsoft is adapting the Avis slogan, "We try harder."

 
To help get more comments for the show what do you guy think of hatsune mikus 10th anniversary on August 31st. Shipwreck probably is the only one who's played the music games but cheapyd being a car guy may have seen her plastered all over Japanese cars while living in japan. Wombat probably doesn't know much from what shipwreck has spoke of the games. Also a game that got some good buzz going was dance dance revolution when it hit its tipping had communities, a tv show and even got implemented in some state physical education programs. Good show
 
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