Jump to content


- - - - -

CAGcast #527: Poe Strikes Back


#1 CheapyD   Head Cheap Ass Administrators   17695 Posts   Joined 15.6 Years Ago  

Posted 21 December 2017 - 05:26 PM

The gang discuss their favorite 5 games of 2017 and have a spoiler-free discussion of Star Wars: The Last Jedi. Stay tuned after the show (55 mins) for The Last Jedi talk with spoilers.

Download (1 hr 41 minutes) - iTunes - Google Play - Stitcher - RSS  - YouTube




Today's show is brought to you by Harrys. Please visit http://www.harrys.com/cag to get to get $5 off your order!

Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro - Star Wars - "Cantina Band" (Electro Swing Remix)
Outro - STAR WARS THEME - shitty flute version

RSS - Full CAGcast Catalog
CAGcast on YouTube
Facebook

Please submit your show questions via CAGbag or Twitter.

#2 hchntpete   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   17 Posts   Joined 11.2 Years Ago  

hchntpete

Posted 21 December 2017 - 07:30 PM

BB-8 vs evil BB-8 deleted scene:

https://youtu.be/vMYibbzJlVs?t=27s



#3 bickle   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   792 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 21 December 2017 - 07:59 PM

The SW discussion was pretty difficult to listen to, with everyone talking over each other

#4 ha2e   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   4 Posts   Joined 12.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 December 2017 - 08:27 PM

SPOILERS AHEAD! (Sorry should have put this earlier):

 

 

I personally dont like Rey's character progression at all in the last 2 movies. In the first film she was able to speak droid, fly the falcon better than Han, and she defeated Kylo Ren in single combat with zero force training (Snoke confirms it in Jedi). Then in the second film I have to watch her beatdown Luke after 2 and a half lessons and then she flys off and 20 mins later the only character who was able to best her, Snoke, is dead. So now they want me to return for a third movie to watch her beat someone who she already beat in the first movie or are they planning a new villian for a single film in the trilogy? At least if Rey's reveal had paid off we could at least say she was so good at everything because her parents were strong with the Force and she had high midicholorians levels, blah blah blah. But we didnt even get that.

 

I know we need stronger female roles in film but they had three films to get her there and none of her progression as a character has felt natural to me.

 

 

Mark Hammil doesnt seem happy with the movies either. @ 2:25 is classic lol



#5 ha2e   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   4 Posts   Joined 12.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 December 2017 - 10:32 PM

SPOILERS AHEAD!

 

 

Im surprised Wombat liked the salt planet scenes. It all seemed dumb to me how Luke misleads the audience, Leia, and the resistance into thinking hes going to kill Kylo but in reality hes just a projection buying time for the resistance to escape. But he doesnt tell the resistance that because the bad writing still needed to fool the audience. Instead Poe had to figure something out that Luke should have told them from the start if he wanted them to have a chance to escape.



#6 apathylad   NeoCAG CAGiversary!   666 Posts   Joined 10.0 Years Ago  

Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:26 AM

I laughed more during at the Star Wars discussion then I did at the whole movie. 

 

SPOILERS FOR THE LAST JEDI

 

Spoiler



#7 raistlin   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   201 Posts   Joined 10.4 Years Ago  

raistlin

Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:54 AM

Damn Cheapy did I just hear you call Wombat a knuckle dragger in this show?  You guys have picked on him for years but I think you kind of hit an all time low on this episode.  Why don't you pick on Shipwreck?  At least then you'll be offending someone that will likely defend himself.



#8 Black_Dynamite19  

Black_Dynamite19

Posted 22 December 2017 - 01:20 PM

It was great to hear that Wombat loved the Salt Planet set piece. Much to my surprise, that scene was filmed in my home country, Bolivia.

That spot is called "Salar de Uyuni" or "The salt flat of Uyuni." As soon as it popped on screen, I gasped due to the fact that I have visited that place many times.

 

Either way - it was a good conversation. 



#9 peteyrose   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1015 Posts   Joined 15.2 Years Ago  

Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:07 PM

I listen to some Star Wars podcasts and it was jarring to transition from their articulate TLJ discussions to this. CheapyD's thoughts were like a 3rd grader's movie review. Petulant and immature. Luckily Wombat and Shipwreck had some reasonable commentary. Wombat's perspective of "Poe is a villain" was funny and original. I have not heard that one yet and I'm nearing 10+ hours of listening to Star Wars podcasts this week. I recommend "Full of Sith" 's latest episode if you want some good analysis of TLJ



#10 Fjordson   FRAK CAGiversary!   981 Posts   Joined 9.0 Years Ago  

Fjordson

Posted 22 December 2017 - 08:01 PM

Pretty much all of Cheapy’s complaints about TLJ were spot on. It’s an incredibly poor Star Wars movie, though I think part of the problem is that this is just the latest example of the Star Wars universe being pretty limited and honestly just not that interesting. The original trilogy somehow worked, but it was kinda lightning in a bottle. Luke, Han, Leia and Darth Vader were great, but everything that’s come after has been really dull.

Also, just want to say to Cheapy that I appreciate all your Watch This Bitches recommendations. I love Wombat and Ship, but when it comes to film and television they’re pretty much just purveyors of schlock. Ship in particular seems to be allergic to anything that takes itself seriously or dares to show any sort of realistic conflict.

Mindhunter in particular was fantastic. Watched it about a month ago and loved it. And what’s neat is that David Fincher produced it and actually directed 4/10 episodes. Could see a lot of stylistic similarities I think to a few of his darker movies like Zodiac and Seven.

#11 ares04   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   73 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 22 December 2017 - 08:21 PM

I wish the TLJ talk was longer because it was great hearing all this different perspectives. It is interesting how different this movie is being received vs Rogue one which was a spin off story. 

 

I think with rogue one you could tell that the movie was written with care in regards to how it fit into star wars canon. It seemed like it was written by a true, die-hard star wars fan whereas with TLJ I don't get that vibe at all.

 

TLJ feels very detached from the original trilogy. We never got that true bad-ass luke moment which is unfortunate. I also agree with shipwreck in that it does not feel like a middle movie in a trilogy but rather more like a finale or standalone film. 

 

Maybe it was a mistake to not lock in a single director for all 3 movies...it really makes me wonder what george lucas' treatments look like.



#12 ares04   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   73 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 22 December 2017 - 08:31 PM

TLJ feels like a cash grab and I have no idea what to expect from episode 9. I'll wait for reviews before watching the next star wars film.



#13 tcrash247   ghosts.nin.com CAGiversary!   3661 Posts   Joined 15.2 Years Ago  

Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:16 PM

I'm glad someone on the show thought the movie was a complete dumpster fire because it was.  I was not entertained at all, the humor was god awful, half the movie could be cut out and you wouldn't even realize it and all the subversion was done solely for the sake of being subversion.



#14 sippycupz   You spoony bard! CAGiversary!   836 Posts   Joined 10.0 Years Ago  

Posted 23 December 2017 - 02:34 AM

Star Wars

Spoiler
 Anyway, Merry Christmas guys, see you in 2018. 



#15 DragoonKnight   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   219 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

DragoonKnight

Posted 23 December 2017 - 07:39 PM

I listen to some Star Wars podcasts and it was jarring to transition from their articulate TLJ discussions to this. CheapyD's thoughts were like a 3rd grader's movie review. Petulant and immature. Luckily Wombat and Shipwreck had some reasonable commentary. Wombat's perspective of "Poe is a villain" was funny and original. I have not heard that one yet and I'm nearing 10+ hours of listening to Star Wars podcasts this week. I recommend "Full of Sith" 's latest episode if you want some good analysis of TLJ


You summed up my thoughts really well. I enjoyed Wombat and Shipwreck’s commentary a lot. They had a lot of the same complaints I had. Cheapy just rants like a child saying everything is shit and can’t articulate his thoughts at all.

#16 francium34   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   84 Posts   Joined 6.8 Years Ago  

francium34

Posted 24 December 2017 - 05:44 AM

I don't pity Disney and the directors on this. If you want to tap into the enthusiasm (cough, cough, wallet...) of the fan base, then I have no sympathy for you when the fans are upset over continuity and treatment of fan favorite characters.

 

Re old characters: Han was even more of a loser than before ep4. Leia has lost battles and wars for decades, and now her name doesn't even call in help anymore. Luke basically turned into old Yoda, without the clarity. And then Han's death is barely mentioned by Luke, Ackbar dies off screen. Chewy isn't doing much. Theoretically I like some of the directions taken, but having all of them not progressing/going backwards is such a shame. My god throw the fans a bone, let one of the old characters be a bad ass!

 

Re Snoke, new order, knights of Ren: We had little back story for the emperor, princess Leia, and Jedi knights in the original trilogy, but those words paint vague concepts that we can hang on to. The rise of a new darkness that takes over what every viewer perceived as a victory at the end of ep6 needs a bit more context. Especially given that they handed our older heroes losses and humiliation, just hand waving away "eh, they are not important" is unsatisfying.

 

Re force powers: sure the new stuff is exciting, but this is basically power creep in DLC/card games. The new generation is doing way more powerful things than the previous masters did, with way less training. This creates a lot of continuity issues.

 

Re state of the universe: I remember how excited I was in the first 5 minutes of TFA, simpy because the possibilities of where they take the universe was endless. Are the empire forces now the resistance? What form of government was formed in place, and what problems did they face after the war? What other evils will they face? What are our heroes doing after the war? What new characters are introduced in the time frame? Turns out, after 2 movies, we are basically back to ep4 situation. This is the biggest shame. It's the same fight (even same death star last time), our heroes are very lame (why couldn't ghost Yoda have taught Luke the same lesson in this movie at any point off screen in the last decade?) , and the only new character from those decades was Poe, who has the same character flaw as Anakin? Man, if a director wants to tell stories in that old setting, go take a spin off film like Rogue One, why reset the entire universe?

 

I can't even tell which director did more damage? JJ set up too many questions that Johnson didn't want to answer, and then the two combined to kill off all major characters from the past (rip Carrie), even using up the Yoda cameo here. So they are getting their wish of tossing the old aside. We'll see how well the new universe fares. At this point I don't hold the current trilogy any higher than, say, the Fast and Furious universe. But I, over 30, as well as the CAG guys, are not the target audience anymore. I need to ask some teens how they feel about the films (and Porgs, and BB8, urgh....). 



#17 Docsamson   Old School CAGiversary!   438 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

Posted 24 December 2017 - 06:37 AM

I loved the movie. It seems like most of the hate is coming from the hardcore fans who can’t handle any changes to their precious canon. The Cagcast convo was hilarious. Like a couple others have said, Cheapy added nothing but “it sucked”, “it was stupid” in reply to Wombat listing things he liked. I guess it was hard to sound positive about it when the host is just taking a dump on everything.

#18 tcrash247   ghosts.nin.com CAGiversary!   3661 Posts   Joined 15.2 Years Ago  

Posted 24 December 2017 - 05:42 PM

snip

 

The youtube channel Redlettermedia made a good point in that the Star Wars universe, while massive, is pretty limited in storytelling.  Disney seems pretty gung-ho about not straying from the good vs bad, jedi vs sith, rebels vs empire conflict.  Take any of that out and people will riot.  While I did not like this film, I'd be interested in seeing what Rian Johnson could do outside of this main storyline.  Tell us a tale about something IN the Star Wars universe, but doesn't revolve around the driving conflict.  But at that point, what would make it Star Wars?  It's a weird spot and I think Star Wars maybe should have been left alone.



#19 partime20XX  

partime20XX

Posted 25 December 2017 - 02:04 AM

Great end of the year show!  And thank you Ship for bringing Breath of the Wild to the conversation!  Only on the CAGcast would that be a controversial pick for GOTY.  Keep it up in 2018.



#20 Curufinwe   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1057 Posts   Joined 9.6 Years Ago  

Posted 26 December 2017 - 08:05 PM

TLJ feels like a cash grab and I have no idea what to expect from episode 9. I'll wait for reviews before watching the next star wars film.[/size]


No idea what you mean by cash grab, and how is waiting for reviews going to change anything for you when TLJ is over 90% on RT?

#21 OilBeefHooked  

OilBeefHooked

Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:00 PM

I have not listened to the last episode, but I do have a fun storry to tell.

After I ran out of episodes from CAGcast, Kotaku SplitScreen, and other gaming podcasts, I decided to backtrack to the start of CAGcast and listen forward to the point I remember that I might have listened to the episodes before.

After 2 weeks non stop CAGcast during my work day I had my strangest dream EVER. I was at Cheapy or Wombats home and trying to mingle with them, but as it turned out, they both were total retards, and could reassemble to some dudes with Downs-syndrome. In the dream I tried to make a conversation with both of them, but all they could repeat was just some monkey-noice and look stupid.

The moment i woke up, i said to my self: I do need some new input during may work-day. This is just insane.

Love from Hell Norway
Wade Wats Parz1wall,
The Dude living i Hell

#22 bickle   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   792 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 26 December 2017 - 11:31 PM

That Mark Hamill video is a cheap hack job that is incredibly disrespectful of a man who has been a tireless representative of Star Wars. All it does is chop up interviews and grab things out of context in order to fit an agenda that is contrary to what he was actually saying. If anything, he could be faulted for being too open.

If Ford was as open to the press, you could make a similar video for Return of the Jedi. Worse, probably. Ford never agreed with the storyline for Solo. Hamill admits that he wasn’t originally happy with the character development of TLJ, but he came around to love what was done. Of course the video happily omits that.

For the final word, Hamill ( ) :

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

#23 coolz481   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1628 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:51 AM

TLJ was a beautifully-shot, interesting movie.  I loved the Luke storyline and wouldn't change a thing - the force push chimney sweep kid at the end was a really cool way to drive home the idea that the Force & the war for the galaxy itself goes far beyond the Skywalker family and their closest allies/enemies, though they serve as the heroes & villains needed.  I too would really like to know more about Snoke or at least why Kylo Ren fell prey to his influence in the first place, but I like that he was killed off now instead of waiting until episode 9.



#24 coolz481   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1628 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:54 AM

TLJ was a beautifully-shot, interesting movie.  I loved the Luke storyline and wouldn't change a thing - the force push chimney sweep kid at the end was a really cool way to drive home the idea that the Force & the war for the galaxy itself goes far beyond the Skywalker family and their closest allies/enemies, though they serve as the heroes & villains needed.  I too would really like to know more about Snoke or at least why Kylo Ren fell prey to his influence in the first place, but I like that he was killed off now instead of waiting until episode 9.  And a million thanks to Wombat for asking the question I had immediately:  how did Rey get on the MIllenium Falcon?  In retrospect, it makes sense that Luke knew how to find her, but they could have thrown a little scene of the Falcon approaching Snoke's ship without revealing Yoga Luke was communicating the whole time.

 

Just another thing to add:  what was your opinion on R2-D2's role?  I've been thinking that his use of the Leia projection turned out to be more than a nostalgia trip.  Luke was inspired to go on a grand adventure and join the rebellion in A New Hope all due a hologram.  Perhaps that's what gave him the idea to project himself to inspire what remained of the resistance.  There's some really cool ideas in this film and certainly more to chew on than may be apparent at first.



#25 canestim   CAG Cane CAGiversary!   162 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:13 PM

Just wanted to say you guys are the best, thank you for another great year of ear joy.



#26 bardiya27   CAGausaurus CAGiversary!   357 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 27 December 2017 - 06:59 PM

I wasn't too hot on TFA, relied a lot on nostalgia instead of pushing the series forward. I've seen it twice now and TLJ is probably my favorite Star Wars after the original.

 

I am not going to write a paragraph explaining why I liked it so much and why it resonated with me but these two articles might be worth checking out, addresses some of the common complaints:

 

https://filmcrithulk...g-of-star-wars/

 

https://www.theatlan...ovation/548609/



#27 ares04   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   73 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:16 PM

No idea what you mean by cash grab, and how is waiting for reviews going to change anything for you when TLJ is over 90% on RT?

Yea, its critic rating on RT is high but its audience rating is much lower...that's the one I'll be looking at more in the future...I meant cash grab in the sense that they didn't put the care into a main, canon star wars film that many people think they should have...the studio is banking on the cachet on the name of star wars while putting out a film thats half baked at best.



#28 tcrash247   ghosts.nin.com CAGiversary!   3661 Posts   Joined 15.2 Years Ago  

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:31 PM

Yea, its critic rating on RT is high but its audience rating is much lower...that's the one I'll be looking at more in the future...I meant cash grab in the sense that they didn't put the care into a main, canon star wars film that many people think they should have...the studio is banking on the cachet on the name of star wars while putting out a film thats half baked at best.

 

I feel like I need to start looking at audience scores more too.  I watched Bright today but wasn't keen on it given the low critic score and was completely surprised by how much I enjoyed it.  The audience score was right on the money for me for that movie.



#29 bardiya27   CAGausaurus CAGiversary!   357 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:44 AM

The audience scores for TLJ on RT and Metacritic don't tell the full story: http://birthmoviesde...-audience-score

 

TLDR: Single users are posting multiple negative reviews on those websites. The audience scores were the polling can't be cheated (surveys after people watched the movie) shows that the movie's audience reception is in line with Rogue One and TFA.



#30 Cthulhu8u   That Innsmouth look CAGiversary!   1806 Posts   Joined 11.4 Years Ago  

Posted 30 December 2017 - 04:24 PM

The movie didn't do much for me, but my kids loved it. I think that sums up the Star Wars franchise.

I will see the next one only because my kids will be interested. As far as the movie went, as mentioned on the CAGCast, it felt like nothing really happened. In the end there are less Resistance, Kylo is still bad, Ren is still good, the main bad guy already died, there were a lot of pointless action sequences, Poe was an ass but he faced few consequences, and now Luke is dead. If it were up to me, I'd skip the next movie.

Speaking of Star Wars I have a good Netflix recommendation: The Toys That Made Us. The first episode was all about Star Wars and the last episode is all about (get ready Shipwreck)... GI Joe! Really great documentary, everyone.