Jump to content


* * * - - 2 votes

Hot Topic: What Should Be Done About Guns?

guns laws shooting news

#1 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:49 PM

I'm sitting here watching Fox News and CNN as they broadcast the demonstration all I'm hearing is we need to do something, we don't know what but it will come. So lets play a game where it's up to you to fix the "gun problem". What you decide goes, no arguments, no buts. So what's the plan?

 

One thing I will ask is the next poster not to rebuttal the previous poster's plan. I just want to hear your plan only. I'll start.

 

My plan is we change our thinking of what guns are, what they do, and why we need them. I believe we need to introduce a safety firearm class to our kids starting in 1st grade all the way to 12th grade. We teach early that guns are not toys and to be respected. Tell them in each grade the 4 rules to handle a firearm. Starting in 5 grade we allow them to handle a firearm and if they show a interest let them learn how to shoot under adult supervision. This takes the irrational fear and the mystery of a firearm out of the equation.

 

Next we take the no gun signs down from buildings. Not once has those signs worked but to the ones who follow the law. Even then if someone is conceal carrying no one is the wiser unless the building has a metal detector or security doing pat downs.

 

We allow those teachers who are willing to carry can, concealed only and no one but the teacher and the principle would know. This will allow those who don't want to wouldn't feel pressured into carrying. Last thing you want is someone who's unwilling to carry to carry, that's unfair to them and could become dangerous. I know that alot of teachers want to carry and  there are sheriff officers that are willing to teach for free to any teacher who wants the training.

 

Last is not a law but a statement. Parents need to stop being friends with their kids and start being parents.Kids have enough friends as is; they only get 2 parents in life, some only 1. Start teaching that life has value and choices all have rewards and more importantly consequences in life. We need to pay attention to what our kids watch, listen, and play. We need to set the example what our kids can look up to and to push them to be better then what we are now. Most important is we teach them self respect and that respect is not earned but freely given.



#2 soulvengeance   Beating dead horses CAGiversary!   4226 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

soulvengeance

Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:53 PM

Oh brother. We want to teach kids about guns starting in first grade, but not about sex. This is exactly what's wrong with this country. I also don't know any teachers who want to carry at work. Everything you've outlined is silly. Next.



#3 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:02 PM

Oh brother. We want to teach kids about guns starting in first grade, but not about sex. This is exactly what's wrong with this country. I also don't know any teachers who want to carry at work. Everything you've outlined is silly. Next.

So what's your plan. I mean you're off to a great start of following instructions. Here is a new link about teachers who are signing up already and the sheriff had to cut it off at 300.

 

https://www.cincinna...ids/354298002/ 

 

As far as sex goes that should be up to the parents when and how to have the sex talk.



#4 detectiveconan16   Delicious! CAGiversary!   7124 Posts   Joined 12.2 Years Ago  

detectiveconan16

Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:01 AM

Is America still stuck in the throes of the Wild West?



#5 soulvengeance   Beating dead horses CAGiversary!   4226 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

soulvengeance

Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:20 AM

Look at this guy. I don't follow his rules, now he's going to have to shoot me. :D/ 

Your response to the sex ed tells me all I need to know about you. :rofl:

 

Is America still stuck in the throes of the Wild West?

Short and long answer: Yes. They pine for the time when men were men, and minorities could be whipped.



#6 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:29 PM

Look at this guy. I don't follow his rules, now he's going to have to shoot me. :D/

Your response to the sex ed tells me all I need to know about you. :rofl:

 

Short and long answer: Yes. They pine for the time when men were men, and minorities could be whipped.

So what's your plan?



#7 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:11 PM

Delete half the 2nd amendment

#8 soulvengeance   Beating dead horses CAGiversary!   4226 Posts   Joined 15.7 Years Ago  

soulvengeance

Posted 22 February 2018 - 07:51 PM

So what's your plan?

My plan is to exit this useless thread. You're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to push your views. Thanks for....well, nothing actually. I guess it was something to read while I was bored.



#9 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:11 PM

My plan is to exit this useless thread. You're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to push your views. Thanks for....well, nothing actually. I guess it was something to read while I was bored.

Thank you for showing us that instead of coming together to see if there is any middle ground we can agree to, you want to come and make snide remarks. If I just wanted to "push my views" then I wouldn't have asked for another's plan and to hold off making remarks on another's plan. Your welcome that this was entertaining for you. 



#10 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 24 February 2018 - 10:52 AM

After Las Vegas we could not get bump stocks banned. There is no reason to engage until people start arguing in good faith.

#11 sasquatc4   CAG in Limbo CAGiversary!   1724 Posts   Joined 6.5 Years Ago  

Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

There was a whole set of proposed rules as common sense gun laws that the majority of america was behind until for some reason everyone just forgot about them and they went nowhere, probably due to the cries of a tiny minority that should have been ignored

 

Just strengthen background checks, have a mandatory safety and use class, after which you get a certificate. With that you must now present it any time you wish to buy a firearm or ammunition. At least then even if some disturbed individual gets a gun from a relative they would also have to steal ammo for it. Sure its not perfect and doesn't solve everything, but its a step in the right direction and would help to prevent a lot of guns/ammo from falling in to hands that should not have it

 

You will never stop the 'bad person who wants to do bad things will get a gun', you just can't, but you may as well try to really impede their progress, thats much more useful than doing absolutely nothing. There is also the huge mental health issue in this country that must be addressed, but that is going to take many years to undo and due to the completely fucked nature of health care in this country is going to be incredibly hard. However things like the above can be done within a years time, instituting a solution for the entire lack of public mental health care could take a decade



#12 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:19 PM

You lost your chance to be treated seriously after Sandy Hook and Las Vegas. The NRA is a paper tiger and as a gun owner myself I'm sick of them making us look like crazy people while taking Putin Pesos to make shit up about liberals.

#13 Donken   President & CEO CAGiversary!   3603 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:22 AM

I like this feature from fivethirtyeight on gun deaths:

https://fivethirtyei...res/gun-deaths/

 

Also, this research was just released:

http://news.northeas...esearcher-says/

 

I'm not sure how you end school shootings. I guess as a country we have to ask, how many school shootings is to many. As a numbers person myself, I know we work on averages and statistics. The saying of "one death is to many" is a lie. The government actually has numbers of how many people have to die before they increase spending on a widespread illness at the CDC. Highways are a great example also, if one death was to many, we would be driving 15 mph on all the interstates. It sounds silly, right? That would be like a gun ban, which would also be silly and is unpopular and would never pass.

 

I think the Florida incident increases awareness and of course as a parent of public school attending children myself, it is always my fear that someone shoots up my childs school. I always have a fear of sharks when I swim in the ocean and of getting hit by lightning when I'm walking outside in a lightning storm. All of those have very low statistical odds of happening to me so then I have to ask myself, do I support some type of widespread law to prevent it? I guess it depends on the cost.

 

Safety always seems to have two costs, a monetary cost and a freedom cost. After 9/11 we were so scared of terrorists that we gave up 99% of our online and phone privacy. The government has access to look at our phone records, our pictures, our videos, everything we post online. I was young when that happened but looking back I still ask myself if that was worth the cost. I'm still not sure.

 

I guess I would say I am conservative because I always lean towards freedom instead of safety in most situations. I guess it goes back to the nobility of dying a free man rather than living as a slave. It's the same reason I try to stay out of debt and wish I still had people in the senate and house that wanted to stay out of debt too.



#14 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

Why are bump stocks still legal?
You guys post these digital filibusters and throw in a jab about freedom and then think you are done. It isn't enough

#15 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 12:52 PM

Why are bump stocks still legal?
You guys post these digital filibusters and throw in a jab about freedom and then think you are done. It isn't enough

Why should they be illegal? 

 

Did you know you can make a bump stock effect with just with your belt loop?

 

and here is one using a bump stock. I marked where he talks about the bump stock but it's worth watching the whole video.

 

https://youtu.be/K2IOZ-5Nk5k?t=2m35s



#16 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

They should be illegal because there is no legitimate reason to have a fully auto weapon. How many Las Vegas Massacres are worth Billy Bob get a bullet storm boner?

#17 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:03 PM

They should be illegal because there is no legitimate reason to have a fully auto weapon. How many Las Vegas Massacres are worth Billy Bob get a bullet storm boner?

Ok, tell me in all the mass shootings have a fully automatic weapon been used? Msut77 have you tried to purchase a firearm before or have the knowledge of what goes into buying one?



#18 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:29 PM

I'm a gun owner schlappschwanz

#19 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:56 PM

I'm a gun owner schlappschwanz

Sorry to hear that you're a schlappschwanz.

Also I didn't mean to ignore your questions on how many mass shootings are worth to own a bump stock. I'll answer with it's a tool they're not good nor evil but the person who uses that tool. There will always be a inherent risk with freedoms. Using the 1st amendment freely will always offend someone when it doesn't vibe with their view, but it's their right to say it without fear of a government stepping in and saying stop saying that or you'll go to jail. Just like the 2nd amendment enforces the idea of self preservation in the use of firearms. It's no one's job to keep you safe but yours alone. The supreme court has ruled in this way.

http://tribunist.com...general-public/

Again how many fully automatic weapons have been used in mass shootings?



#20 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:07 PM

The 2nd amendment has 2 parts. Also you already answered. Any amount of massacres are ok with you because morons think its fun to waste ammo

#21 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:39 PM

The 2nd amendment has 2 parts. Also you already answered. Any amount of massacres are ok with you because morons think its fun to waste ammo

Could you explain what the 2nd amendment means to you since you keep being vague. You say, "Delete half the 2nd amendment." and now saying it has 2 parts. No massacre is ok with me, it is a tragic event that should never happen. I've outlined my idea on stopping or better yet prevent a mass shooting in the beginning of this thread. What would your plan be?



#22 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:49 PM

You are ok with the massacres QED

#23 Donken   President & CEO CAGiversary!   3603 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:03 PM

I'm okay with bump stocks being illegal, that's fine, but they can be made on a 3D printer so it doesn't mean people won't have them. I'm not even sure where you could buy one in the first place, I have never been in the market for one. Ban those but I don't think that's going to stop the next mass shooting.

You mocked me bringing up freedom but any wide sweeping federal ban on anything is an attack on freedom. That's just a fact. You don't want absolute freedom though, some things have to be banned or you end up like mad max. It's just the argument of where do we draw the line.

The school district I'm in is always looking at ways of making things safer. Last I heard the teachers were getting those locks for the doors to make it really hard to get into classrooms. That's one improvement but it won't be enough.

#24 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:43 PM

Gotcha why bother to have laws if someone can circumvent them.

#25 bear489   My Trolliest President CAGiversary!   936 Posts   Joined 8.1 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:59 PM

Gotcha why bother to have laws if someone can circumvent them.

Ain't that the Nonillion question?



#26 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:06 PM

It really isn't

#27 Donken   President & CEO CAGiversary!   3603 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 01 March 2018 - 12:37 AM

Gotcha why bother to have laws if someone can circumvent them.


That's not what I said at all. I said I'm fine with them being banned, but it seems like if you still wanted one you could get it.

You talk about wanting real solutions, I mean if I were to look at real solutions, what if all of the shooters had a father figure in the home? What if they had real friends who lifted them up so they weren't isolated? What if they didn't have access to a gun?

I guess my point is, I think the real solution is way more complex and involved than we can imagine and no one thing is going to fix it, so let's start with one thing at a time. My worry is, we get a bump stock ban and an "assault style" rifle ban and then we say, okay we solved it.

Have we really? What about all the kids that commit suicide because there parents ignore them or get bullied but decided not to go on a school shooting. It just is a very big problem and something I worry about with my own kids. It's why I try to make sure I talk to them everyday so they have a father in there life, but what about kids that don't? What can we do for them?

#28 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 March 2018 - 01:04 AM

Ok gotcha banning stuff is hard but mandatory every one gets a good father figure is a ok

#29 Donken   President & CEO CAGiversary!   3603 Posts   Joined 13.0 Years Ago  

Posted 01 March 2018 - 02:51 AM

Ok gotcha banning stuff is hard but mandatory every one gets a good father figure is a ok


Just for my own curiousity, you said you would get rid of half the 2nd amendment.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Which part?

#30 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:08 AM

Guess





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: guns, laws, shooting, news