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#5881 the_ENEMY_   Undead CAGiversary!   1289 Posts   Joined 10.3 Years Ago  

the_ENEMY_

Posted 02 July 2020 - 02:31 AM

kinda silly how its an acronym though



#5882 RiPPn  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:06 PM

Get ready for $70 to be the new retail price for next gen games:



#5883 Onyxmeth   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   451 Posts   Joined 11.1 Years Ago  

Onyxmeth

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:19 PM

Get ready for $70 to be the new retail price for next gen games:

https://twitter.com/...7906764807?s=21

Makes sense. Games have been very slow to raise in price in the US.

#5884 SpraykwoN   the Chef CAGiversary!   3717 Posts   Joined 6.7 Years Ago  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:25 PM

Get ready for $70 to be the new retail price for next gen games:

I'm all about that Mamba Forever Edition



#5885 RiPPn  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:32 PM

Makes sense. Games have been very slow to raise in price in the US.

Ive seen this argument, but game companies have been monetizing in other ways. They are going to keep that nonsense in plus slap an additional $10 on the price. That shouldn’t be ok.

#5886 CrepeNuts  

CrepeNuts

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:35 PM

Ive seen this argument, but game companies have been monetizing in other ways. They are going to keep that nonsense in plus slap an additional $10 on the price. That shouldn’t be ok.

Agreed. Not to mention the all digital future, which eliminates manufacturing and the resources needed for that. When that's gone it's not like they're going to reduce the price of games.



#5887 SackAttack   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   772 Posts   Joined 16.6 Years Ago  

SackAttack

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:57 PM

With the caveat that I'm not saying it makes sense for publishers to go to $70, if game prices had kept up with inflation in the last 30 years, as virtually every other segment of American life has, new AAA titles would be double that.

Video game prices have been resistant to inflation - and even been deflationary - in a way almost nothing else has.

In the mid 90s, there wasn't really a "standard" price, but top titles frequently went for $90-100, with an industry market share half what it is now.

Car and housing prices are have doubled or more since then, but even if you stick to entertainment as an apples-to-apples comparison? Movie ticket prices are up probably 400%. Disney World tickets are up 400% for single day passes. Sporting event ticket prices are, generally, at least double. Concert tickets, same.

For whatever reason, video games have been the one industry inflation hasn't really touched. Console prices have crept up and been slower to decline, but software? Stabilized at $50 in the mid to late 90s, went up to $60, and we're only just now talking about $70, 30 years after top cart games were $100 without blinking.

Again - none of this is to suggest that $70 is a sound business move. Only that if gaming had been as affected by inflation as basically every other sector of entertainment, the prices we see on collector's editions would be what we see for standard editions instead.

#5888 topchief1   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   500 Posts   Joined 12.3 Years Ago  

topchief1

Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:58 PM

I've seen ads with games at $70 or $75 on occasion, mainly SNES, but never as high as $90-$100.

#5889 SackAttack   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   772 Posts   Joined 16.6 Years Ago  

SackAttack

Posted 02 July 2020 - 04:01 PM

They're out there. Phantasy Star IV was $99 on Genesis at EB. Shit, I remember paying $100 for Back to the Future III on Genesis as a dumbass 10 year old.

#5890 investor9872   CAG Supremo! CAGiversary!   2113 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

investor9872

Posted 02 July 2020 - 04:08 PM

Ive seen this argument, but game companies have been monetizing in other ways. They are going to keep that nonsense in plus slap an additional $10 on the price. That shouldn’t be ok.

 

You tell 'em Ripp.  This is NOT okay!



#5891 Echotech83   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   870 Posts   Joined 8.3 Years Ago  

Echotech83

Posted 02 July 2020 - 04:16 PM

Well maybe $70 games will force me to wait longer for a price drop and I’ll finally put a dent in my backlog. Hahaha, yeah I don’t believe me either.

#5892 TctclMvPhase   Dismal Scientist CAGiversary!   2005 Posts   Joined 12.7 Years Ago  

TctclMvPhase

Posted 02 July 2020 - 04:43 PM

Don't want to get too off topic, but I don't think inflation means what most people think it means. The way BLS tracks inflation over time changes as the bucket of goods evolves. The really important thing for consumer decisions is relative price.

I'd say the reason why NBA2K21 is going to be $70 has more to do with their monopoly on the NBA license and less to do with inflation. They may trot out the inflation argument, but thats more because the public accepts it without understanding it. If inflation we're really the case, then all game prices would rise. However, in the games industry, supply has risen just as fast, if not faster than demand. You can see this in the fact that real prices for games have actually fallen over time.

IE If $70 for NBA 2K21 seems expensive to you, it probably, actually is.



#5893 Omni99  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 05:01 PM

As a child I was saving my hard earned money to buy NES games at 50 dollars. As an adult, now I buy games at 60 dollars. It's actually very impressive that we don't pay more, especially with some of the budgets these games have.

If they really want the all digital future to take off, they should sell the digital version for less. They never incentivize the thing that's supposedly cheaper for them.



#5894 ChrisD0811   CAG in Training CAGiversary!   223 Posts   Joined 7.9 Years Ago  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 05:14 PM

NBA 2K is the LAST game that could ever justify a price increase. Series has been riddled with microtransactions for the better part of a decade. You can't even dress your player the way you want in offline game modes without paying real life money to do so.

Garbage...

#5895 RiPPn  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 05:16 PM

As a child I was saving my hard earned money to buy NES games at 50 dollars. As an adult, now I buy games at 60 dollars. It's actually very impressive that we don't pay more, especially with some of the budgets these games have.

If they really want the all digital future to take off, they should sell the digital version for less. They never incentivize the thing that's supposedly cheaper for them.

I always felt those prices were justified back then because cartridges were expensive to manufacture and they were heavy and bulky.  All things that really increase the cost to sell at retail.   If I remember correctly, similar games were selling on PC for easily $20 - $30 cheaper on release and that trend followed well into the new millennium until steam took over. 

 

I agree that digital should be cheaper on release as they tend to not go on sale as quickly as their retail counterpart and they do eliminate any retail costs involved which should be passed on to the consumer.



#5896 BobbyTastic   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9120 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

BobbyTastic

Posted 02 July 2020 - 05:35 PM

There are also a hell of a lot more people buying games now.
2K is just testing the waters with one of their guaranteed hits. This way they get a sense of how the casual market reacts to the hike without risking too much. Most of their money comes from the microtransactions anyway.

#5897 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3139 Posts   Joined 13.9 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:04 PM

Don't want to get too off topic, but I don't think inflation means what most people think it means. The way BLS tracks inflation over time changes as the bucket of goods evolves. The really important thing for consumer decisions is relative price.

I'd say the reason why NBA2K21 is going to be $70 has more to do with their monopoly on the NBA license and less to do with inflation. They may trot out the inflation argument, but thats more because the public accepts it without understanding it. If inflation we're really the case, then all game prices would rise. However, in the games industry, supply has risen just as fast, if not faster than demand. You can see this in the fact that real prices for games have actually fallen over time.

IE If $70 for NBA 2K21 seems expensive to you, it probably, actually is.

Thank you for this. My graduate degree in economics cries everytime the word inflation is used incorrectly.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

#5898 RiPPn  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:04 PM

There are also a hell of a lot more people buying games now.
2K is just testing the waters with one of their guaranteed hits. This way they get a sense of how the casual market reacts to the hike without risking too much. Most of their money comes from the microtransactions anyway.

I'm not sure they are the only company going to be charging this price.  Isn't this the first next gen preorder to go live which is why everyone is running with it as the set price for next gen games?

 

I do think 2k is testing the waters though.  They sold 2k19 I believe for 2.99 at one point.  They are giving 2k20 with PS+ this month.  And first to announce this higher price.  So we'll see for sure how it works out for them.



#5899 shadowysea07   Cjenvy I'm ready for you awd this time I'm wearing pants CAGiversary!   5574 Posts   Joined 7.3 Years Ago  

shadowysea07

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:22 PM

Let's also remember atlus was doing this shit for years with their "(f)atlus tax" which was crap given that they applied it to games they didn't do anything for like stella glow.  And that game had serious translation issues so the fact they wanted to charge 10$ more for it is pathetic and greedy.



#5900 Zenax[zd]   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   708 Posts   Joined 12.0 Years Ago  

Zenax[zd]

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:28 PM

Car and housing prices are have doubled or more since then, but even if you stick to entertainment as an apples-to-apples comparison? Movie ticket prices are up probably 400%. Disney World tickets are up 400% for single day passes. Sporting event ticket prices are, generally, at least double. Concert tickets, same.

That is not an apple to apple comparison either though. Games are cheap entertainment you use to pass the time with at home, often buying them on a whim. Far less people wake up in the morning and decide on a whim that they want to go to Disney World. Movie theaters are certainly a better example, and yeah, they've been on the decline for years now in the states. Not entirely because of how expensive a ticket is but that is one of the factors.

 

If you want a similar entertainment comparison you have to go with books and at home movie/tv which if you actually look at their price history for the past 40 years it's all over the place just like video games. People want the best bang for their buck at home, it's why netflix completely dominated the last decade while cable has been on the way out. And the price difference there is astronomical in some cases, my mom paid $130 a month for cable last year and they wouldn't lower the price so even her who is pretty old and resistant to change finally ditched it.

 

Competition is way too fierce to price games at double the price they currently are. People would just spend their time doing other things. They might be able to get away with $70 but honestly I am not even sure. If you actually look at how fast video game prices drop these days $60 seems to be too high for the average consumer.



#5901 Souffrir   Eternally Training CAG CAGiversary!   5124 Posts   Joined 7.8 Years Ago  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:29 PM

With the caveat that I'm not saying it makes sense for publishers to go to $70, if game prices had kept up with inflation in the last 30 years, as virtually every other segment of American life has, new AAA titles would be double that.

Video game prices have been resistant to inflation - and even been deflationary - in a way almost nothing else has.

In the mid 90s, there wasn't really a "standard" price, but top titles frequently went for $90-100, with an industry market share half what it is now.

Car and housing prices are have doubled or more since then, but even if you stick to entertainment as an apples-to-apples comparison? Movie ticket prices are up probably 400%. Disney World tickets are up 400% for single day passes. Sporting event ticket prices are, generally, at least double. Concert tickets, same.

For whatever reason, video games have been the one industry inflation hasn't really touched. Console prices have crept up and been slower to decline, but software? Stabilized at $50 in the mid to late 90s, went up to $60, and we're only just now talking about $70, 30 years after top cart games were $100 without blinking.

Again - none of this is to suggest that $70 is a sound business move. Only that if gaming had been as affected by inflation as basically every other sector of entertainment, the prices we see on collector's editions would be what we see for standard editions instead.


Video games have also become a massively larger business in the past thirty years. Smaller profit margins still return higher profits when you factor in the number of people buying games now compared to how many people were buying them at the end of the 80s. There's really nothing directly comparable to video games that's undergone anywhere near the same level of market growth in that same period.

#5902 Zantra  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:53 PM

As Americans we have been so lucky. Japan has never had a set price for games, and they let Japanese game companies price their games however they wanted to. A lot of the games that we got in America for $60 were retailing for up to $100 in Japan, and even more for the special editions.

#5903 elessar123  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 08:27 PM

Yea, but Japan is weird like that. $40 for DVDs and $60+ for Blu-ray still.



#5904 SackAttack   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   772 Posts   Joined 16.6 Years Ago  

SackAttack

Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:43 PM

That is not an apple to apple comparison either though. Games are cheap entertainment you use to pass the time with at home, often buying them on a whim. Far less people wake up in the morning and decide on a whim that they want to go to Disney World. Movie theaters are certainly a better example, and yeah, they've been on the decline for years now in the states. Not entirely because of how expensive a ticket is but that is one of the factors.

 

If you want a similar entertainment comparison you have to go with books and at home movie/tv which if you actually look at their price history for the past 40 years it's all over the place just like video games. People want the best bang for their buck at home, it's why netflix completely dominated the last decade while cable has been on the way out. And the price difference there is astronomical in some cases, my mom paid $130 a month for cable last year and they wouldn't lower the price so even her who is pretty old and resistant to change finally ditched it.

 

Competition is way too fierce to price games at double the price they currently are. People would just spend their time doing other things. They might be able to get away with $70 but honestly I am not even sure. If you actually look at how fast video game prices drop these days $60 seems to be too high for the average consumer.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the market can sustain an instant doubling of price. I'm not even saying $70 is necessarily a "good" idea. I AM saying that the other forms of entertainment haven't changed significantly in the last 30-40 years, but they have gone up in price, and the ones I cited in particular have gone up 3-400% in price.

 

Gaming is the one entertainment form, of all the others mentioned between my post and yours, that HAS changed dramatically, and yet the price has stayed largely static for most of the last 30 years. It hasn't come close to keeping up with inflation. Just one $10 increase a few years ago, and 2K now dipping their toes in the water for another. All while development budgets have exploded and mobile/F2P games have started to contend for eyeballs, resulting in financial pressures at both ends.

 

If game prices had increased the way everything else has in the last 40 years, we'd be pining for the halcyon days of $70. Again, doesn't mean increasing to $70 is a good move in this moment, but dragging 2K for doing it ignores that historical context.



#5905 Babysinclair   Banned Banned   44 Posts   Joined 0.3 Years Ago  

Babysinclair

Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:51 PM

Yeah if that’s true, $10 more for games, I won’t be buying anything anymore, games aren’t what they used to be, the industry is stagnant.

#5906 Omni99  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:56 PM

Yeah if that’s true, $10 more for games, I won’t be buying anything anymore, games aren’t what they used to be, the industry is stagnant.

I'm basically programed to wait for sales now. At 70 bucks my day 1 buys would drop even further.



#5907 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3139 Posts   Joined 13.9 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:05 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the market can sustain an instant doubling of price. I'm not even saying $70 is necessarily a "good" idea. I AM saying that the other forms of entertainment haven't changed significantly in the last 30-40 years, but they have gone up in price, and the ones I cited in particular have gone up 3-400% in price.

Gaming is the one entertainment form, of all the others mentioned between my post and yours, that HAS changed dramatically, and yet the price has stayed largely static for most of the last 30 years. It hasn't come close to keeping up with inflation. Just one $10 increase a few years ago, and 2K now dipping their toes in the water for another. All while development budgets have exploded and mobile/F2P games have started to contend for eyeballs, resulting in financial pressures at both ends.

If game prices had increased the way everything else has in the last 40 years, we'd be pining for the halcyon days of $70. Again, doesn't mean increasing to $70 is a good move in this moment, but dragging 2K for doing it ignores that historical context.

You're ignoring that 2K monetizes every single tiny thing in their games. So it's a slap in the face when they're the ones leading the increase to $70. A butt load of other problems with your logic for price increases but I don't have time to discuss pricing theory and inflation.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

#5908 kingotnw   The Devil! CAGiversary!   225 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

kingotnw

Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:25 PM

Years ago, when the 360 came out, it was announced that games would be going back down to $49.99 once the 360 paid for its losses. It did, right away, and the prices never went back down. Why would they? People were willing to pay the $10 increase and so it stuck.

Don’t believe this hype. The DLC on first person shooter all on its own pays for the development of these games. I used to be a map maker, and as long as you have the assets already done, which they always are when we are talking about add in’s, it’s a simple and very quick matter of making a map. It’s not rocket science, and it’s nowhere near as expensive to do them as it’s made out to be. As long as you’re paying fir season passes and $15 for four new maps (should be more like 10-20 maps for that price, and we are already getting bowled over by these companies.

I also don’t want to hear about crunch. I’m a professional musician and I am ALWAYS working if I am awake 99 out of 100 times. If I didn’t like my hours I’d do something else. These game companies are privileged that we are willing to let them rip us off as is. They should leave it alone.

#5909 Tyrok   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2790 Posts   Joined 12.7 Years Ago  

Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:32 PM

Everybody who buys games at full price on day one is just beta-testing the first post-launch patch anyway.  :-o



#5910 the_ENEMY_   Undead CAGiversary!   1289 Posts   Joined 10.3 Years Ago  

the_ENEMY_

Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:53 PM

Funny, the 65" LCD 1080p tv I bought for $3,000 9 years ago was a crazy cheap deal back then.