Yikes. Ion Storm is kaput...
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WhipSmartBanky
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I think you just made Scrubking's year...
jmcc
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Well, in the interest of irrational hope maybe it was just Eidos that ruined DX2 (by forcing it onto the Xbox) and EA will hire Spector and give him a chance to work on System Shock 3. Then, that will sell great and they'll ask him to work on Undying 2! Ah...that would be sweet...
Admiral Ackbar
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I guess this goes to show how tought it is for some game companies to make it. Even those that make decent games. I find it interesteing they're going to PS2 development only. That's probably the cost effective development platform.
MadChedar0
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That's crazy news. I haven't had a chance to play Deus 2, but I hope this doesnt mean the end of that franchise or any other Ion Storm projects. Warren Spector is the man though.
Scrubking
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I wouldn't be surprised if Spector left or got fired.
There is so much spin going on that you can't believe anything WS says anymore. First he said IW was great then hidden in the game are transcripts where they knock the very game they made.
And I don't know who is to blame when it comes to IW and T3 since Warren was spouting his nonsense about how wonderful streamlining was. Maybe Eidos pressured him, maybe he really wanted these games to sell well. Hopefully one day someone will spill the beans and shed some light on the development of these two games.
I do know that Eidos is pressed for cash so I wouldn't be surprised if they fired everyone since the games didn't sell as well as they thought, but you have to be pretty dense to turn a great series into shit and expect great sales.
There is so much spin going on that you can't believe anything WS says anymore. First he said IW was great then hidden in the game are transcripts where they knock the very game they made.
And I don't know who is to blame when it comes to IW and T3 since Warren was spouting his nonsense about how wonderful streamlining was. Maybe Eidos pressured him, maybe he really wanted these games to sell well. Hopefully one day someone will spill the beans and shed some light on the development of these two games.
I do know that Eidos is pressed for cash so I wouldn't be surprised if they fired everyone since the games didn't sell as well as they thought, but you have to be pretty dense to turn a great series into shit and expect great sales.
jmcc
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[quote name='Scrubking']I wouldn't be surprised if Spector left or got fired.
There is so much spin going on that you can't believe anything WS says anymore. First he said IW was great then hidden in the game are transcripts where they knock the very game they made.
And I don't know who is to blame when it comes to IW and T3 since Warren was spouting his nonsense about how wonderful streamlining was. Maybe Eidos pressured him, maybe he really wanted these games to sell well. Hopefully one day someone will spill the beans and shed some light on the development of these two games.
I do know that Eidos is pressed for cash so I wouldn't be surprised if they fired everyone since the games didn't sell as well as they thought, but you have to be pretty dense to turn a great series into shit and expect great sales.[/quote]
Well, they didn't turn any great series into shit, but the Deus Ex and Thief series never enjoyed the kind of sales Eidos was looking for anyway, so it was probably pretty doomed from the start.
There is so much spin going on that you can't believe anything WS says anymore. First he said IW was great then hidden in the game are transcripts where they knock the very game they made.
And I don't know who is to blame when it comes to IW and T3 since Warren was spouting his nonsense about how wonderful streamlining was. Maybe Eidos pressured him, maybe he really wanted these games to sell well. Hopefully one day someone will spill the beans and shed some light on the development of these two games.
I do know that Eidos is pressed for cash so I wouldn't be surprised if they fired everyone since the games didn't sell as well as they thought, but you have to be pretty dense to turn a great series into shit and expect great sales.[/quote]
Well, they didn't turn any great series into shit, but the Deus Ex and Thief series never enjoyed the kind of sales Eidos was looking for anyway, so it was probably pretty doomed from the start.
jmcc
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[quote name='Scrubking']Well, they didn't turn any great series into shit
Maybe not from a sales standpoint since the previous games never sold great, but from a gameplay standpoint they turned both these series into streamlined for the masses shit.[/quote]
I'm sure they're sorry that they couldn't make them text based adventures like you wanted, but most normal humans didn't mind the changes, only malcontents; the types who insist the command line is superior to a GUI and that it's heresy to think any other way.
Maybe not from a sales standpoint since the previous games never sold great, but from a gameplay standpoint they turned both these series into streamlined for the masses shit.[/quote]
I'm sure they're sorry that they couldn't make them text based adventures like you wanted, but most normal humans didn't mind the changes, only malcontents; the types who insist the command line is superior to a GUI and that it's heresy to think any other way.
Scrubking
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You sure are a funny guy. Even hardcore fans of these series (which I am one), who love these new games (which I don't), say the games have been dumbed down.
Even warren spector said DX:IW was streamlined, I guess he is wrong too right? You need to learn how to accept being wrong, dude. It is not a bad thing.
Even warren spector said DX:IW was streamlined, I guess he is wrong too right? You need to learn how to accept being wrong, dude. It is not a bad thing.
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='Scrubking']You sure are a funny guy. Even hardcore fans of these series (which I am one), who love these new games (which I don't), say the games have been dumbed down.
Even warren spector said DX:IW was streamlined, I guess he is wrong too right? You need to learn how to accept being wrong, dude. It is not a bad thing.[/quote]
He's not saying that the game isn't streamlined for the masses, he's saying that making a game streamlined does not equal making it shit.
Even warren spector said DX:IW was streamlined, I guess he is wrong too right? You need to learn how to accept being wrong, dude. It is not a bad thing.[/quote]
He's not saying that the game isn't streamlined for the masses, he's saying that making a game streamlined does not equal making it shit.
Scrubking
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He's not saying that the game isn't streamlined for the masses, he's saying that making a game streamlined does not equal making it shit.
If that is what he meant then I respect his opinion, but to be clear:
I was being specific about these two games - saying that DX:IW and T3 are shit because of the streamlining not that all streamlined games are shit.
If that is what he meant then I respect his opinion, but to be clear:
I was being specific about these two games - saying that DX:IW and T3 are shit because of the streamlining not that all streamlined games are shit.
jmcc
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[quote name='Scrubking']He's not saying that the game isn't streamlined for the masses, he's saying that making a game streamlined does not equal making it shit.
If that is what he meant then I respect his opinion, but to be clear:
I was being specific about these two games - saying that DX:IW and T3 are shit because of the streamlining not that all streamlined games are shit.[/quote]
They're not shit because of streamlining. Both are very fun to play and review scores didn't drop dramatically from the original's scores. The problem is, you and your ilk wouldn't have been happy unless IW and Thief 3 were just DX1 and Thief 2 in a different box, which is fine, but don't criticize the rest of the world because it moved on from 2000. Just play the originals again and pretend you paid 50 dollars for them a second time. Better yet, flush 100 dollars down the toilet. Then the illusion will be complete.
If that is what he meant then I respect his opinion, but to be clear:
I was being specific about these two games - saying that DX:IW and T3 are shit because of the streamlining not that all streamlined games are shit.[/quote]
They're not shit because of streamlining. Both are very fun to play and review scores didn't drop dramatically from the original's scores. The problem is, you and your ilk wouldn't have been happy unless IW and Thief 3 were just DX1 and Thief 2 in a different box, which is fine, but don't criticize the rest of the world because it moved on from 2000. Just play the originals again and pretend you paid 50 dollars for them a second time. Better yet, flush 100 dollars down the toilet. Then the illusion will be complete.
Scrubking
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Whatever 
And for a list of some of the things wrong in these games:
- poor ai
- fugly textures
- clostrophobic levels
- load zone bonanza
- No swimable water
The list goes on and on with game specific problems.
And jmcc, you are a fool to start spewing out bullshit about "you and your ilk". You don't have a
ing clue as to what I would or wouldn't like in the game so don't pretend like you know. Not to mention that my problem with these games has nothing to do with innovation - more proof that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
And for a list of some of the things wrong in these games:
- poor ai
- fugly textures
- clostrophobic levels
- load zone bonanza
- No swimable water
The list goes on and on with game specific problems.
And jmcc, you are a fool to start spewing out bullshit about "you and your ilk". You don't have a
ing clue as to what I would or wouldn't like in the game so don't pretend like you know. Not to mention that my problem with these games has nothing to do with innovation - more proof that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. 
Ive read the word 'shit' around 40 times in this thread. A new record.
Otherwise...I really dont know what to say about Ion Storm..enjoyed their first games, the first two entries of the thief series and deus ex for the incredible originality they bought to the table. But yeah...IW and Thief 3 felt a bit 'diluted' should i put it that way from their successors. Plus Ion Storm alienated alot of PC users with their sort of steep system requirements and 'console to pc port' issue that pissed alot of former fans off. Im guessing thats why the sales werent all that they were supposed to.
I wish for better times for that company, though-i wont be forgetting their old games anytime soon.
Otherwise...I really dont know what to say about Ion Storm..enjoyed their first games, the first two entries of the thief series and deus ex for the incredible originality they bought to the table. But yeah...IW and Thief 3 felt a bit 'diluted' should i put it that way from their successors. Plus Ion Storm alienated alot of PC users with their sort of steep system requirements and 'console to pc port' issue that pissed alot of former fans off. Im guessing thats why the sales werent all that they were supposed to.
I wish for better times for that company, though-i wont be forgetting their old games anytime soon.
jmcc
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[quote name='Scrubking']Whatever
And for a list of some of the things wrong in these games:
- poor ai
- fugly textures
- clostrophobic levels
- load zone bonanza
- No swimable water
The list goes on and on with game specific problems.
And jmcc, you are a fool to start spewing out bullshit about "you and your ilk". You don't have a shaq-fuing clue as to what I would or wouldn't like in the game so don't pretend like you know.[/quote]
Sure I do. You're the "Durrrr! The game is teh suck because it doesn't have manual reloading or a tetris minigame for a item menu anymore! I hate Warren Spector because he didn't just rehash his old game" guy.
And for a list of some of the things wrong in these games:
- poor ai
- fugly textures
- clostrophobic levels
- load zone bonanza
- No swimable water
The list goes on and on with game specific problems.
And jmcc, you are a fool to start spewing out bullshit about "you and your ilk". You don't have a shaq-fuing clue as to what I would or wouldn't like in the game so don't pretend like you know.
[/quote]Sure I do. You're the "Durrrr! The game is teh suck because it doesn't have manual reloading or a tetris minigame for a item menu anymore! I hate Warren Spector because he didn't just rehash his old game" guy.
jmcc
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[quote name='Scrubking']It is hilarious how you think dumbing down a game is sophistication and innovation.
"Great the game does more than half of everything that I am supposed to do! What innovation! Now I can just sit my lazy ass on my couch and watch my game instead of play it!"[/quote]
We'll just end this disagreement here since it's clear we're not going to come to a concensus. Let's just say you have more exacting standards that you hold games to than I.
"Great the game does more than half of everything that I am supposed to do! What innovation! Now I can just sit my lazy ass on my couch and watch my game instead of play it!"[/quote]
We'll just end this disagreement here since it's clear we're not going to come to a concensus. Let's just say you have more exacting standards that you hold games to than I.
jmcc
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[quote name='Eclipse']good call. Make peace and itll all be over.[/quote]
Well, I just remembered we had a similar argument a month or so ago and it stretched to, like, 8 or 10 pages long and neither of us changed our minds then. I'm sure as hell not going to waste either of our 3 day weekends doing that again.
Well, I just remembered we had a similar argument a month or so ago and it stretched to, like, 8 or 10 pages long and neither of us changed our minds then. I'm sure as hell not going to waste either of our 3 day weekends doing that again.
Scrubking
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[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Eclipse']good call. Make peace and itll all be over.[/quote]
Well, I just remembered we had a similar argument a month or so ago and it stretched to, like, 8 or 10 pages long and neither of us changed our minds then. I'm sure as hell not going to waste either of our 3 day weekends doing that again.[/quote]
I could have sworn it was with someone else. Oh, well.
Well, I just remembered we had a similar argument a month or so ago and it stretched to, like, 8 or 10 pages long and neither of us changed our minds then. I'm sure as hell not going to waste either of our 3 day weekends doing that again.[/quote]
I could have sworn it was with someone else. Oh, well.
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